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A

Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
Ebay may be an option ...

For me, tolerance to sedatives is a complication.
The 'industrial solvent' thing is not appealing. I've been looking for data about dose, but nothing reliable so far. If anyone can dig up more ?
@gingerplum, with your medical background you have a valuable perspective. We have to keep in mind though that people die all the time of poisons and accidents. By accident. In the end, something will kill you.
 
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About_to_Go

About_to_Go

It deepens like a coastal shelf
Mar 20, 2018
303
GHB is used as a party drug and New Year's Eve is coming up soon. Is a seemingly accidental OD easier on a family than a suicide?
 
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311

311

Dying cat
Nov 24, 2018
779
GHB is used as a party drug and New Year's Eve is coming up soon. Is a seemingly accidental OD easier on a family than a suicide?
Yeah definitely.
 
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purposeless

purposeless

Member
Dec 22, 2018
15
I just searched it on Amazon ( I live in Germany) And this showed up: Butandiol ( Hope the link works), and it appears to be 1,3 Butandiol and not 1,4 Butandiol which was always refered to above. I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but does it have to be 1,4 Bd? Is there a difference?
 
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311

311

Dying cat
Nov 24, 2018
779
I just searched it on Amazon ( I live in Germany) And this showed up: Butandiol ( Hope the link works), and it appears to be 1,3 Butandiol and not 1,4 Butandiol which was always refered to above. I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but does it have to be 1,4 Bd? Is there a difference?
I think it has to be 1,4
 
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gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
Ebay may be an option ...

For me, tolerance to sedatives is a complication.
The 'industrial solvent' thing is not appealing. I've been looking for data about dose, but nothing reliable so far. If anyone can dig up more ?
@gingerplum, with your medical background you have a valuable perspective. We have to keep in mind though that people die all the time of poisons and accidents. By accident. In the end, something will kill you.

Yes, tolerance to sedatives may be an issue, since GHB was invented for use as an anaesthetic in the 1960's.

The "industrial solvent" angle is definitely very unappealing; the first thing that came to my mind was paint thinner. Then I reminded myself that water is the universal solvent, followed by ethanol (drinking alcohol). When you think about it, grain alcohol would probably not be too far behind mineral spirits as a solvent.

Furthermore, 1,4 Butanediol has been used in a number of legal supplements (and, ok, also in cleaning agents), although this is a dated list and I don't think it's used in supplements anymore:

"The solvent 1,4-butanediol is also known as 1,4 tetramethylene glycol, 1,4-butylene glycol, 1,4-dihydroxybutan glycol, and sucol-B. It is sold under a variety of trade names, including Thunder Nectar, NRG3, Serenity, InnerG, Zen, Enliven, Amino Flex, Dormir, Rejuv@night, Ultradiol, N-Force, Liquid Gold, Soma Solutions, BlueRaine, Thunder, SomatoPro, Weight Belt Cleaner, X-12, Rest-Q, Biocopia, Serenity II, Mystik, Midnight, Miracle Cleaning Products, and Puritech."

https://www.thebetterhealthstore.com/solvent011101.html

Look at this list of solvents that are considered "food grade;" note that #1 is acetone, and #3 is 1,3-Butylene Glucol, 1,4-Butanediol's cousin.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-can...permitted/15-carrier-extraction-solvents.html

My medical background really isn't much of an asset on this particular subject; I didn't know squat about GHB or its precursor(s) until @311 asked me about it. I became completely intrigued once I looked it up.

I can postulate possible outcomes regarding use of 1,4 B, but I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking I have an edge on this information. I can contribute and speculate, but, full disclosure, guys: this is not my wheelhouse.
 
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Midnight

Midnight

Beyond solace
Jun 30, 2018
624
Found this in the Netherlands. Is this the proper chemical?

https://www.hinmeijer.nl/product/25712/1-4-butaandiol-99-5-



This is the first time in nearly 2 decades that i'm close to buying a method that interests me (apart from a rope/noose) i have. It feels as if this might be what i have waited for. The supplier mentioned here is in a neighbouring country (same language) so that's a plus. They ship via a special certified courier (so not just any old mailorder/ups stuff) so shipping cost will be high and if anyone else but you opens the door you're fucked. They do however sell to individuals BUT for certain chemicals they require an 'end user declaration' it's not stated that 1.4b is among it but it would be strange if it was not.

Also if sellers suddenly see an extreme rise in inquiry's/sales they might get suspicious ... Idk i'm always paranoid if these things.

I'm keeping an eye on this method with great interest.

If this stuff kills you peacefully and leaves your corpse in a somewhat "normal" manner i would be very interested.
 
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RememberWhatUCameFor

RememberWhatUCameFor

dont cry for me im already dead
Nov 20, 2018
590
i will order soon...even if dont will use it for killing myself i have a still a nice drug available which i can also use for sleepless nights
 
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A

ArtsyDrawer

Enlightened
Nov 8, 2018
1,448
Curious. Will this work without alcohol? I can't have alcohol due to antiepileptics. Alcohol won't kill me, but it sure will make existence VERY painful if taken even a table spoon.
 
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Didymus

Didymus

Clutching at invisible straws
Dec 11, 2018
348
Also if sellers suddenly see an extreme rise in inquiry's/sales they might get suspicious ... Idk i'm always paranoid if these things.

Me too. I don't want to get into trouble.

There's also a seller on eBay DE, 250ml should be enough. Maybe there's no hassle buying it there as it's in the EU so no customs check and if it's sent in a neutral package.
 
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A

Ayeitsalaska

Student
Dec 19, 2018
117
I'm trying this method. 2 ounces of this stuff plus a small amount of alcohol.
 
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A

Ayeitsalaska

Student
Dec 19, 2018
117
Like a shot and a half of alcohol.
 
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Midnight

Midnight

Beyond solace
Jun 30, 2018
624
Me too. I don't want to get into trouble.

There's also a seller on eBay DE, 250ml should be enough. Maybe there's no hassle buying it there as it's in the EU so no customs check and if it's sent in a neutral package.

Me neither ... I don't want issue's because no one knows of my current state nor have i ever been to a psychiatrist/mental hospital.

Just checked ebay.de (even have a prime acc there) but can't seem to find it. Even without shipping outside of DE. Only one i can find has 1.3b and that's not the same.
 
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311

311

Dying cat
Nov 24, 2018
779
I may try this method on new years.
 
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311

311

Dying cat
Nov 24, 2018
779
Curious. Will this work without alcohol? I can't have alcohol due to antiepileptics. Alcohol won't kill me, but it sure will make existence VERY painful if taken even a table spoon.
Make sure you take benzos in case you have a seizure.
 
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Stillnotsure

Stillnotsure

Experienced
Dec 18, 2018
245
Give
Ok, here's what I've got:

"1,4-Butanediol is added to a wide variety of dietary supplements to enhance sleep, libido, athletic performance, fat metabolism, and relaxation. It is also used as an industrial solvent. After ingestion, it is rapidly metabolized to gamma-hydroxybutyrate*, which itself is abused for euphoric and sexual side effects. This report describes 9 episodes of severe toxic effects from 1,4-butanediol in 8 patients, 2 of whom died.

Clinical findings included vomiting, urinary and fecal incontinence, agitation, combativeness, labile level of consciousness, coma, and death. 1,4-Butanediol was undetectable in nonfatal cases, but gamma-hydroxybutyrate concentrations in the blood and urine far exceeded normal concentrations. The amount ingested ranged from 5 g to 20 g (88 mg/kg-300 mg/kg) in the patients who died and 1 g to 14 g in those who survived.

Although only 9 toxic episodes related to 1,4-butanediol are reported here, overdoses from gamma-hydroxybutyrate-related compounds occur commonly. Targeted analysis is needed to detect these compounds because routine toxicologic screens do not detect them. Furthermore, given its rapid metabolism, gamma-hydroxybutyrate may be nondetectable in the blood after a few hours but may remain detectable in the urine. Fortunately, most patients recover from overdoses rapidly and uneventfully, as long as good supportive care is instituted
(emphsis mine)."

*See? It's a precursor to GHB, as OP (@311) stated.

https://www.jwatch.org/em200102280000009/2001/02/28/toxic-effects-1-4-butanediol

"From June 1999 through December 1999, cases of toxic effects of 1,4-butanediol involving patients who presented to emergency departments with a clinical syndrome suggesting toxic effects of gamma-hydroxybutyrate and a history of ingesting 1,4-butanediol and patients discovered through public health officials and family members /were identified/. Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry /was used/ to measure 1,4-butanediol or its metabolite, gamma-hydroxybutyrate, in urine, serum, or blood. Nine episodes of toxic effects in eight patients who had ingested 1,4-butanediol recreationally, to enhance bodybuilding, or to treat depression or insomnia /were identified/. One patient presented twice with toxic effects and had withdrawal symptoms after her second presentation. Clinical findings and adverse events included vomiting, urinary and fecal incontinence, agitation, combativeness, a labile level of consciousness, respiratory depression, and death. No additional intoxicants were identified in six patients, including the two who died. The doses of 1,4-butanediol ingested ranged from 5.4 to 20 g in the patients who died and ranged from 1 to 14 g in the nonfatal cases. The health risks of 1,4-butanediol are similar to those of its counterparts, gamma-hydroxybutyrate and gamma-butyrolactone. These include acute toxic effects, which may be fatal, and addiction and withdrawal."

https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+1112

"1,4-Butanediol is also used as a recreational drug known by some users as "One Comma Four", "Liquid Fantasy", "One Four Bee" or "One Four B-D-O". It exerts effects similar to γ-hydroxybutyrate (GHB), which is a metabolic product of 1,4-butanediol.[11][12] When mixed with other drugs, misuse of 1,4-butanediol has resulted in addiction and death.

While co-administration of ethanol and GHB already poses serious risks, co-administration of ethanol with 1,4-butanediol will interact considerably and has many other potential risks. This is because the same enzymes that are responsible for metabolizing alcohol also metabolize 1,4-butanediol so there is a strong chance of a dangerous drug interaction (emphasis mine). Emergency room patients who overdose on both ethanoland 1,4-butanediol often present with symptoms of alcohol intoxication initially and as the ethanol is metabolized the 1,4-butanediol is then able to better compete for the enzyme and a second period of intoxication ensues as the 1,4-butanediol is converted into GHB.[14]

Like GHB, 1,4-butanediol is only safe in small amounts. Adverse effects in higher doses include, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, sedation, vertigo, and potentially death if ingested in large amounts. Anxiolytic effects are diminished and side effects increased when used in combination with alcohol.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,4-Butanediol

"At least two people have died from a chemical cousin of GHB and six others have overdosed in the decade since the government banned the sale of the "date-rape drug," a study found.

More such overdoses have almost certainly occurred but have gone unreported, in part because many coroners and emergency rooms do not test for GHB, said medical anthropologist Deborah L. Zvosec, a Ph.D. who led the study published in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine."

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n061/a09.html?397

"I decided to start small;
T=0; 1.2ml mixed in a shot of Orange juice.

T+60min; The effects seem to be winding down ever so slightly, so now I feel comfortable going to bed. I am sooooo grateful that I did not take any more when I considered doing so at ten minutes. I feel that, had I taken any more at that time, unrousable sleep would've surely ensued. I had originally considered taking 3ml. Good thing I started with just 1.2ml."

https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=9125

"This was the second time my wife and I tried 1,4-Butanediol. The first time we each did 5ml with very little effect. So we tried it again but this time we mixed it in our alcohol in our drinks.

1hour 45min went by and I mixed more 1,4-Butanediol in our drinks, then it started to really hit me but my wife was still sober. at this point I ended up putting a total of 40ml of the stuff between both of our drinks.

...[my wife] was cold, her face was blue, she had no signs of life except she was starting to go into uncontrolable convulsions from time to time. she did not respond to any external stimuli. someone ask me what did we take. I was so out of it I didn't even remember going to the party, let alone what we took.

... [hospital staff] confirmed that her coma would have been induced with the mixing of alcohol and 1,4-Butanediol. she finally came out of her coma after 6 hours, she did not remember anything. not the party or how we got there or any thing. it took another 5 hours till she was recovered enough that they released her. this stuff might be fun, but take it from my own stupidity DO NOT MIX WITH ALCOHOL!!!!"

https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=16276

"... according to the Drug Enforcement Administration, there were 49 deaths associated with the use of BD from 1995 through October 1999. "Patients use [1,4-butanediol] to get high, but … the dose needed to get high is close to the toxic dose."

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117703&page=1

"The lowest reported LD50 (Lethal Dose, 50%; i.e. the dose that is lethal for half of the animals tested) value is 1200 mg/kg bw (body weight) in guinea pigs.

In rats and mice, reported values are in the range of 1525-1830 mg/kg bw and 2060 mg/kg bw respectively."

https://www.nicnas.gov.au/chemical-information/factsheets/chemical-name/butanediol-1,4-butanediol

So, the quick takeaway here is the stuff seems to be very lethal when mixed with alcohol. What I can't tell you is dosage; the LD/50 tests on animals are measured in mg per kg, and I don't know how to extrapolate mg/mL from a liquid chemical, even with the level of purity at a known 99%. However, from the anecdotal information I'm reading, and as @311 stated, it's relatively a very small amount, at or less than 5 mL.

Is it even possible to figure out the mg per mL? Is there a chemist in the house?!?

I'm kind of shocked these reports have been coming in for ~ 20 yrs, and this stuff is still readily available to anyone online.

Without further research-- I'm done for now-- my question would be how much time is necessary to be safe.

@311, I'm super impressed. This merits further discussion and research. Amazing find!!

Give me the numbers.... I'll try to do the math.
 
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T

TiredHorse

Enlightened
Nov 1, 2018
1,819
I just ordered 2oz (56.8ml), from Amazon. Not sure if I'll use it or stay with eb/N2 as planned, but for $35 it doesn't hurt my feelings to have it on hand.
 
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311

311

Dying cat
Nov 24, 2018
779
I just ordered 2oz (56.8ml), from Amazon. Not sure if I'll use it or stay with eb/N2 as planned, but for $35 it doesn't hurt my feelings to have it on hand.
I'm about to too.
 
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Toenditall

Toenditall

im already dead just need to kill the body
Nov 10, 2018
225
just ordered myself some and will be keeping a eye on this to see if its as good as we think it is
 
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gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
Give


Give me the numbers.... I'll try to do the math.
Give


Give me the numbers.... I'll try to do the math.

The 1,4-Butanediol online is either 99% or 99.5% pure. I'm not sure if there's a way to calculate or even estimate mg/mL. This would be for the purpose of determining the mg/kg LD/50 dose in humans, as based (admittedly, roughly) on animal testing in mice & rabbits.
 
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311

311

Dying cat
Nov 24, 2018
779
The 1,4-Butanediol online is either 99% or 99.5% pure. I'm not sure if there's a way to calculate or even estimate mg/mL. This would be for the purpose of determining the mg/kg LD/50 dose in humans, as based (admittedly, roughly) on animal testing in mice & rabbits.
I think its 1 gram per ml
 
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TiredHorse

Enlightened
Nov 1, 2018
1,819
In the interest of full disclosure: I'm in a funny limbo with my plans to ctb. I have flinched several times this fall, and I'm now in a weird, desperate-but-numb place where I can't be sure I'll be able to go through with... anything, either life or death. I'm also unsure that I want to ctb with poison; the eb/N2 method appeals to me far more, despite my thus-far lack of success.

Add to that the uncertainty of any proven protocol to work from -- ~10ml of 14B + <?> alcohol is a pretty sketchy formula-- and I am hesitant to make this leap. Honestly, part of me is making this purchase precautionarily in case some busybody at Amazon chances onto this thread and shuts down the sale of 14B.

So if people are watching me to see how this turns out, you might be in for a long wait. @311 might turn out to be the better "guinea pig."

And I will definitely continue to watch this thread as @Stillnotsure crunches the numbers and she and @gingerplum explore the pharmacology.
 
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311

311

Dying cat
Nov 24, 2018
779
In the interest of full disclosure: I'm in a funny limbo with my plans to ctb. I have flinched several times this fall, and I'm now in a weird, desperate-but-numb place where I can't be sure I'll be able to go through with... anything, either life or death. I'm also unsure that I want to ctb with poison; the eb/N2 method appeals to me far more, despite my thus-far lack of success.

Add to that the uncertainty of any proven protocol to work from -- ~10ml of 14B + <?> alcohol is a pretty sketchy formula-- and I am hesitant to make this leap. Honestly, part of me is making this purchase precautionarily in case some busybody at Amazon chances onto this thread and shuts down the sale of 14B.

So if people are watching me to see how this turns out, you might be in for a long wait. @311 might turn out to be the better "guinea pig."

And I will definitely continue to watch this thread as @Stillnotsure crunches the numbers and she and @gingerplum explore the pharmacology.
I honestly think 2 oz should be the minimum given what we dont know. We know it's dangerous and people have died with small amounts BUT I think people do overkill here.
 
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Itstimeforpeace

Itstimeforpeace

Member
Dec 20, 2018
24
I've ordered mine from amazon (8oz). I'm in the US.
 
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gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
I honestly think 2 oz should be the minimum given what we dont know. We know it's dangerous and people have died with small amounts BUT I think people do overkill here.

No. 2 oz is 60 mL; you mean 2 mL. I'm reading some stuff on Reddit now where some people report using 8-10 mL in a night. Granted, these guys aren't amateurs, but that's a pretty hefty dose.
 
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311

311

Dying cat
Nov 24, 2018
779
No. 2 oz is 60 mL; you mean 2 mL. I'm reading some stuff on Reddit now where some people report using 8-10 mL in a night. Granted, these guys aren't amateurs, but that's a pretty hefty dose.
I think 60ml should be the minimum tbh. The more the better and 2oz isnt alot to swallow.
 
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