Venting The annoyance of obligatory suicide prevention hotline informations in articles.

[TAW122]

This certainly isn't the first time nor will it be the last time that news articles, journalists, and reporters post the damn (obligatory?) suicide prevention information in any topic or article that talks about mental health or suicides. However, in both of these articles, they couldn't be further from the truth. They mentioned "confidential support" as if it is a fact. What they didn't mention is how these hotlines can (and will) trace the person using their hotline, whether via voice call or text, if/should they have knowledge or believe that the caller is in imminent danger. Oh, and also they aren't going to be held legally liable (at least near impossible to get recourse or redress against them) for it. Fucking clown world of course...!

Trump says there will be 'suicides by the thousands' if the US coronavirus shutdown continues

The president said that "we have to put the country to work" or there could be "suicides by the thousands" if the economic slump continues.

www.businessinsider.com

‘Isolation is a big trigger’: Feelings of suicide are amplified amid a pandemic

Suicide prevention experts say the U.S. response to the coronavirus pandemic, which includes social distancing, may increase suicide risk.

www.usatoday.com

 

[one4all]

What they didn't mention is how these hotlines can (and will) trace the person using their hotline, whether via voice call or text, if/should they have knowledge or believe that the caller is in imminent danger

No one will ever make that public. It would really make people stop calling.
just my 2 pence from the gutter

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I wonder what he means by 'put the country to work'

Isn't there a wall along the Rio Grande that still needs building?

 

[Mr. ‘K so?]

That's how the law is set up. It's confidential in the fact that they don't turn around and tell the newspaper how many people call them a day or repeat what you've said to them in any detail with someone that you haven't cleared. If, as you're saying, a person is an imminent danger to themselves, what's stopping them from changing target to another person? It's posted there so people can say "I did something to help" but they're not forcing you to contact them

 

[TAW122]

That's how the law is set up. It's confidential in the fact that they don't turn around and tell the newspaper how many people call them a day or repeat what you've said to them in any detail with someone that you haven't cleared. If, as you're saying, a person is an imminent danger to themselves, what's stopping them from changing target to another person? It's posted there so people can say "I did something to help" but they're not forcing you to contact them

Interesting points. While it's true in your latter example, these crisis hotline operators (or volunteers) have such wide latitudes in determining what is or isn't a threat so if they believe (incorrectly) that the caller is a threat to him/herself or others, they would escalate and report that to the authorities. The other problem with that is where is the recourse for the caller when done in error? There isn't in most cases (albeit, very very rare circumstances and even then it's very difficult) as there are 'good faith' laws and even the legal system gives them so much flexibility. Thus, in short, the system has so much power over the caller/individual and odds are heavily stacked against the individual calling. I merely wanted to point out the disingenuous and deceptive practices that these operators and hotlines do that most people aren't aware of. Of course though, most of us on this platform knows about the dreadful hotline numbers and what not and wouldn't wish to call them for the very reasons and risks that I've pointed out in this thread.

 

[Mr. ‘K so?]

Interesting points. While it's true in your latter example, these crisis hotline operators (or volunteers) have such wide latitudes in determining what is or isn't a threat so if they believe (incorrectly) that the caller is a threat to him/herself or others, they would escalate and report that to the authorities. The other problem with that is where is the recourse for the caller when done in error? There isn't in most cases (albeit, very very rare circumstances and even then it's very difficult) as there are 'good faith' laws and even the legal system gives them so much flexibility. Thus, in short, the system has so much power over the caller/individual and odds are heavily stacked against the individual calling. I merely wanted to point out the disingenuous and deceptive practices that these operators and hotlines do that most people aren't aware of. Of course though, most of us on this platform knows about the dreadful hotline numbers and what not and wouldn't wish to call them for the very reasons and risks that I've pointed out in this thread.

Those are some pretty good points. I'm not gonna lie, you're definitely right in that the system is pretty flexible in bending back to smack the caller. I also think that if you present yourself as a threat, that's how they're going to asses and treat you as. With that being said, I realize it's not exactly easy to be rational in any instance that a call to a hotline is needed. In my case, for example, that has been the difference between ending the call with them and having the cops brought in.

It's also a belief of mine that the hotlines are set up with a specific purpose, to sway people who are not 100% sure to try to get that last help they might need. My hopeful thinking is that it shocks you seeing the severely mentally sick people get them into therapy

 

[TAW122]

Those are some pretty good points. I'm not gonna lie, you're definitely right in that the system is pretty flexible in bending back to smack the caller. I also think that if you present yourself as a threat, that's how they're going to asses and treat you as. With that being said, I realize it's not exactly easy to be rational in any instance that a call to a hotline is needed. In my case, for example, that has been the difference between ending the call with them and having the cops brought in.

It's also a belief of mine that the hotlines are set up with a specific purpose, to sway people who are not 100% sure to try to get that last help they might need. My hopeful thinking is that it shocks you seeing the severely mentally sick people get them into therapy

That is true and sadly, there must be a serious overhaul of how they handle suicidal people, including having more civil rights and protections for the callers, as well as "actual" processes of redress for abuse overseen by an independent third party (like some organization or watchdog group that polices and manages crisis hotlines, or even an civil rights group for callers and patients in the mental health system. While some civil rights groups do fight on the behalf of these patients, it's not enough.)

As for indecisive people and uncertain people, yes it could be helpful in those instances under the condition that they aren't saved against their will. Involuntary force, treatment, and what not should not be something that is done towards the individual unless the individual ALSO poses a imminent threat towards the safety of others.

 

[Mr. ‘K so?]

That is true and sadly, there must be a serious overhaul of how they handle suicidal people, including having more civil rights and protections for the callers, as well as "actual" processes of redress for abuse overseen by an independent third party (like some organization or watchdog group that polices and manages crisis hotlines, or even an civil rights group for callers and patients in the mental health system. While some civil rights groups do fight on the behalf of these patients, it's not enough.)

As for indecisive people and uncertain people, yes it could be helpful in those instances under the condition that they aren't saved against their will. Involuntary force, treatment, and what not should not be something that is done towards the individual unless the individual ALSO poses a imminent threat towards the safety of others.

But that's the thing about being uncertain and calling the hotline, you're in a sense unpredictable. You are saying to them you are not sure what you want and placing the responsibility of intervening in their hands. They put that little line saying if you or someone you know need help. From an outsider perspective, what's to stop you from turning on a dime and taking out other people? If you are losing value in your life, what value is someone else's? That's why you're going to be considered a threat to others. The same laws that get enacted also get used on drunks for the same reason, they're unpredictable.

 

[TAW122]

But that's the thing about being uncertain and calling the hotline, you're in a sense unpredictable. You are saying to them you are not sure what you want and placing the responsibility of intervening in their hands. They put that little line saying if you or someone you know need help. From an outsider perspective, what's to stop you from turning on a dime and taking out other people? If you are losing value in your life, what value is someone else's? That's why you're going to be considered a threat to others. The same laws that get enacted also get used on drunks for the same reason, they're unpredictable.

Thanks for clarifying, I can see your point and understand it better from their point of view. While I still don't agree with their handling and strongly believe an overhaul of the system, it makes sense of "why they handle the caller like a threat". From the caller's perspective, it would then be detrimental to call it especially if one is determined to CTB and genuinely wanting to CTB (meaning no uncertainty). Doing so would be like admitting to a heinous crime or like admitting one is a witch (during the witch hunts hundreds of years ago) during the ancient times/or admitting to heresy and burned at the stake (in some older societies). It's like it a criminal admitting to a crime to get apprehended and unless a criminal was really dumb or wanted to just get captured, it's just not sound. (Just fyi, I don't endorse criminals nor illegal actions).

 

[Mr. ‘K so?]

Thanks for clarifying, I can see your point and understand it better from their point of view. While I still don't agree with their handling and strongly believe an overhaul of the system, it makes sense of "why they handle the caller like a threat". From the caller's perspective, it would then be detrimental to call it especially if one is determined to CTB and genuinely wanting to CTB (meaning no uncertainty). Doing so would be like admitting to a heinous crime or like admitting one is a witch (during the witch hunts hundreds of years ago) during the ancient times/or admitting to heresy and burned at the stake (in some older societies). It's like it a criminal admitting to a crime to get apprehended and unless a criminal was really dumb or wanted to just get captured, it's just not sound. (Just fyi, I don't endorse criminals nor illegal actions).

More like that poor girl that died from having the exorcism done to her in Germany. But you're spot on bro