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Life Is My Coffin

Life Is My Coffin

One final action ⚰️⚰️⚰️
Oct 13, 2023
228
That dude is such a condescending fucking piece of shit, not long after the Kiwi Farms thread about Sanctioned Suicide was made (a very good thread I should add) he didn't hessistate to call everyone idiots when they made very valid arguments against him proving he was wrong. He basically just said "you're all fucking stupid I'm still right go watch my video if you disagree ^__^". Fuck that arrogant stuck up narcissistic cunt, he can eat a dick. Fuck his retarded video too which is full of blatant propaganda.

Screenshot 2023 10 19 043319

Only thing I had praise this shitface for is he let me discover this amazing website.
 
U

Uniquest_name

Lost in a forest of thoughts
Oct 17, 2023
3
Rain, thank you so much for your post. Long post, but my experience is that your threads and posts are well worth reading in their entirety. To have taken out a single paragraph would have omitted important information.

I remember reading the post you quoted above of Jonels where among other things, he told us we were responsible for letting a minor 17 year old die. I remember being upset that someone could be so hateful. I stayed away for a couple of days.

I would never, ever, give tantacrul anymore undeserved attention by watching the video. I have a million things I want to say, but I'm not the wordsmith you and many others here are. I appreciate you laying out the truth and being brave enough to stand your ground. Thanks again
That video made me investigate this site and I gotta say it looks like he cherry picked info
 
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moondazed

moondazed

ex nihilo nihil fit
Oct 14, 2023
170
I'll be honest, I learned about this site from his video right around the time it was posted. I had also just lost a friend to suicide a month before. I had never heard of Tantacrul before and was recommended to me on YouTube, so I was pretty shocked by it and immediately searched the site out. It was not hard at all to find it. Like 30 seconds of googling. I chose to not make an account and just lurk, but I pretty quickly realized how wrong he was.

I kind of forgot about the site for most of the year, and recently returned to actually join. I'm glad I did. I suffer from suicidal and death ideation a lot, on top of all my other issues. The discussion here is very validating and engaging, and while I understand my personal stance differs greatly from others on the site, I very much respect having this platform and appreciate the diversity of conversation. I truly think it saves more lives than it's opponents might realize. And, for those who sincerely suffer to the extreme, it's at the least a validating place where they might finally find some peace. I've almost only seen civil discussion, compassion, and understanding from members, despite the rare spicy pepper. You don't find that in many places on the internet.

I'm glad I saw that video, despite it being heavily a slander piece. I've never found a community where I can express my darkness without fear or shame. It's invaluable. Thank you.
 
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R

rizleechboy

Member
Oct 13, 2023
54
I found this site from the tantacrul video. It just got recommended to me. Every time I've posted here, I've gotten at least 2 responses every time. It's nice to be seen and underso. Better than the 50/50 chance of getting ignored in r/suicidewatch.
 
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DT2007

DT2007

reincarnation
Oct 9, 2023
197
My point of view? Let's put it that way. He's doing what earns him money. Regurgitating public opinion plus a bit of scandal and "how dare they". He's just doing shat he things is most profitable for his channel. It's all about clicks and views.
 
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Adûnâi

Adûnâi

Little Russian in-cel
Apr 25, 2020
860
An insightful read. I'm effectively a jaded pro-mortalist (and of course, anti-natalist) at this point, even though my parents were super accommodating and pliable. I just consider existence a chore, boring at best, sadistically cruel to an amusing degree at worst (which I haven't even experienced myself, but merely hearing of it makes me cackle at the Demiurge's ingenuity).

But I do think that "progressive" libertarianism is fighting a lost battle. I'm not trying to be contrarian for contrarianism's sake, but I don't think full bodily autonomy to be achievable at all. Nature did not create humans with individualism in mind. The unit of evolution is the population (or the gene, more technically) - not the individual, and definitely not an individual consciousness.

Parents rape children into existence; our culture rapes our minds by teaching a specific language & culture; then the state rapes us with taxes or military conscription or your regional equivalent. All because it is the collectives who truly live (or live more dignified lives, at least - until they die to better-equipped or luckier collectives).

This entire life is a futile attempt at making order out of chaos, but order is unnatural, fickle, ephemeral. Overall, if I'm being a pragmatist, in love with human history, I would support the most abhorrent and "regressive" régime possible - but it wouldn't make me adore this shitfest with a Nietzschean yea to life, curiously enough. I do wonder whether such conversations mean there is some psychological evolution of empathy going, on, or whether we are a dead end fork, and the planet will be inherited by even more brutish creatures.

P.S. Eliezer Yudkowsky's paperclip solution to the human question does arouse hope in me, for all the wrong reasons. Artificial intelligence might either brute-force these issues, or just kill us all painlessly.
 
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Cleanthes

Cleanthes

Member
Apr 15, 2019
20
I haven't visited for quite a while. I came here today due to this BBC news item: "
British authorities failed to act on multiple official warnings about a website promoting suicide that has been connected to at least 50 UK deaths, the BBC has found.
The online forum, which we are not naming, is easily accessible to anyone on the open web, including children.
Our investigation has identified multiple warnings to government by coroners and a number of police investigations, but the forum still remains active.
Families of the dead, the youngest just 17, say the failure to act led to more avoidable deaths. They are demanding an inquiry."

3 questions.
Can anyone confirm that the item refers to this forum?
If a minor is entitled to change their gender, are they not entitled to take other decisions about their own life?
Would the forum consider some sort of age checking for members?
 
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SaffronSugar6

SaffronSugar6

I’m sorry
Oct 24, 2023
8
The youtuber Tantacrul, also known in this forum as @Jonels, finally recorded a video about this community, in which he slandered and insulted our members and I've decided to respond to him directly. He has been obsessed with this forum for the last few weeks, creating alt-account after alt-account to force his narrative on other people. A little reminder on how all of this started, back in November 2022.









These are some snippets of his posts before I kicked him from this community. I made pretty clear in that thread that he is allowed to use this forum and express criticism towards this forum as long as it's fair and in good faith. It's obvious from the posts above that this wasn't the case so I gave him the boot. As a result of that, he announced that he would make a video about this forum. It's pretty obvious that all of this is done solely because he wants to cause damage to this community because we didn't give him a platform for his immature behavior. And look, Tantacrul, you might not mention me and this forum by name but I'll mention you by name.

Chapter one. The real philosophy of this website
[responding to "How does the site work?", "The philosophy of this site"]

What's the purpose of this forum? Obviously Tantacrul isn't really interested in portraying this forum in a fair light, the video he made obviously doesn't have the intention to start a discussion about the moral implications of this forum with fair arguments. It's a direct response of us banning him for repeatedly(!) violating the rules back in November when he insulted the community and claimed we are reponsible for the death of another person. It's supposed to be another hitpiece, similiar to the one in December 2021 from the NYT.

I already explained this here but the purpose of this forum is to provide a safe space for suicidal or struggling people in general to discuss deeply personal topics without censorship. That's the most straight-forward answer. I would add that this forum also provides a space to talk about these subjects without a forced narrative and that's one of the reasons why this place is so appealing to so many people. If you talk about your problems with anyone out there, it always comes with restrictions. If you say a little bit too loud that you are suicidal, you have to expect severe backlash and in the worst case, involuntary hospitalisation. I'll get to this point later, this is gonna be a very detailed response to the accusations directed at this community.
Another aspects what makes this forum so appealing to so many people is the fact that you can talk about your suicidality in this place without the risk of intervention. Instead, you receive honest compassion and empathy because we're all mind-liked people. We all suffer together in this place and we're all respecting each others boundaries. And that's important because I didn't experience that out there, I simply didn't. And we talk to each other with an even ground, which isn't the case when you talk to a psychiatrist for example, there is a very different power dynamic in such conversations than here. And this aspect of the forum, which has caused so many people to stay, hasn't even been mentioned once. This forum saves lives, without a doubt.

And there are people in this community that have been suffering for years for various reasons and unlike Tantacruls narrative, this community doesn't just consist of young people who are impulsive and eager to engage in harmful behavior without much thought. Tantacrul doesn't understand that nobody becomes suicidal in a vacuum. We all have valid reasons to be in this forum. He pretends that people are lured into this community for no reason and then convinced to kill themselves just for fun. That's obviously not true, I don't even know where to start when I want to debunk this claim. But reading through the registration queue and the posts in this forum from new members makes very clear to me that most members who come to this place have a long experience with mental or physical health problems. And if someone comes to this place, they specifically seek out a forum with our philosophy, for a reason. Let's make one thing clear, people register in this place voluntarily because they have needs they want to address in this forum. And that's okay.

Here are some scientific articles digging into the nature of this forum and you will realize rather quickly that scientists have called this community pro-choice repeatedly in the past. These articles provide a very nuanced insight into this community and I appreciated the work that's been done.
Now, let's dig into the next claim.
You claim that this forum consists of 4 philosophies around the nine minute mark.
1. Nihilism.
2. Anti-natalism
3. Pro-mortalism
4. Libertarianism

While the first two philosophies are actually quite common in this forum, pro-mortalism and libertarianism isn't. There might be individual members who have libertarian or efilist beliefs but to say that these are dominant philosophies as you claim is absurd. There is a reason why nihilism and anti-natalism are common themes in this forum, it's because depressed people tend to have a more negative outlook on life compared to the rest of the population. It's quite natural actually and it's not really a surprise that this community tends to be more nihilistic compared to the average population. And anti-natalism, which is also more common in this community, is a belief that's shared in this forum because many of us didn't have the best parents and sometimes, our own parents contributed to our suffering. But I'll go into details about this later.

I don't know why you claim pro-mortalism is a dominant philosophy in this forum, it's not. Again, there might be individual posters who hold a pro-mortalist belief but that's in no way representative for the entire community. And that's really important because you use this framing over the course of the entire video to portray this forum as some kind of cult that pushes people into suicide because we supposedly gain satisfaction from doing so. That's a lie. Most members here recognise that ending your life is a serious act and shouldn't be done without severe introspection. But we regularly applaud and celebrate when members announce that they're leaving the forum because they have recovered. That's a good thing. Shouldn't that be obvious? Regarding libertarianism, you seem to confuse a fundamental basic human right like self-determination for libertarianism and I don't know why how you came to that conclusion. For me, it tells me a lot about your ignorance around this topic. The right to die is a human right and the ECHR has agreed with me on that topic repeatedly.

View attachment 103738
European Center for Law and Justice

View attachment 103737
The International Journal Of Human Rights

And that's the most shared value in this forum: self-determination, you being the only decision maker when it comes to matters that affect your welfare. And for many of us in this forum, we consider the right to die a human right. This has nothing to do with libertarianism as you claim but everything with individual autonomy, those are very fundamental values of every civilisation. And you live in the UK, right? So I wonder, why don't you value the right to die as a fundamental right? Do you disagree that people should have the right to make deeply personal decisions about their own life without interference of the state? That would be a regressive idea. Are you regressive, Tantacrul? Do you want to go back to times where women and men didn't have the legal right to make their own decisions concerning their welfare? I don't really think so.

But your attempt to slander this forum as some kind of obscure cult already failed. I believe in the right to die as a human right. I think every person who consider their life unworthy of living for various reasons, and the most common reason is chronic mental and physical pain, should have a right to exercise their right to die without interference of the state. And this sentiment has just recently been reinforced by the Federal Consitutional Court of Germany, making clear in their court ruling that the right to die isn't "restriced to serious or terminal diseases or specific phases of life or of a disease". It would contradict the fact that the right to die "is rooted in human dignity" and therefore does "NOT require any additional explanation or justification". The court also made clear that the right to die "also includes the right to seek and use voluntarily offered help to do so and that's by far the most progressive court ruling to this day, validating the right to die as a basic human right.
It seems to me that your entire video is based on a misunderstanding of the right to die. You consider the right to die a controversial topic and people fighting for ways to exercise said rights must be malicious actors according to your video but that's not really the case if you do some research about the ethical consensus in various countries regarding suicide and assisted suicide too. That's very important. You claim that sharing ressources and information regarding ways to exercise our right to die is bad and evil, I say it's an act of compassion. Let's end this here and come back to this topic later.

Chapter two. What are my beliefs
[responding to "who is responsible for setting up this site?"]

You dedicate a lot of your video talking about my beliefs without actually knowing why I'm a member in this forum.
I'm a trans woman who has suffered their entire life. My childhood was ruined by neglectful parents and I've had a terrible upbringing. As a result of that I experienced suicidal ideation very early in my life. Being trans teached me that we live in a society that doesn't really give a fuck about marginalised people. That's why I have become a member in this forum. During the years I have realized that the right to die is a deeply neglected right, in the majority of the world it's surpressed and you're not really allowed to talk openly about suicide. If you want to know more about the stigma around mental health, just talk to a few members of this forum and ask them why they are active in this forum.
I'm secular. I don't believe in any religion. And I consider the right to die when you're suffering so much that you can't take it any longer a compassionate and empathic position. I think people like you who fear monger about this forum and take valid criticism to the extreme are not acting in good faith. You claim this forum has anything to do with inceldom. If you did some research, you would know that inceldom isn't really a common theme in this forum. You will find so many different groups with different backgrounds in this community, we're actually quite diverse and people are here for very different reason. We're also very heterogenic when it comes to ideology. You claim we're a cult and that we all believe in the same thing. That's not really true. We disagree on so many topics. Some members are left-wing, some are right-wing, some are socially conservative and some are more liberal. I had so many political discussions with people who had a different opinion than me and that's okay. We don't really have any common goals in this forum. The only thing that truly connects us is the need for a place to talk about deeply personal topics without censorship and a forced narrative and the idea that we should have a right to make deeply decisions without intervention of a third party. And that's it.

Here is the deal. I've been suicidal my entire life. I'm not just an admin, I'm a member myself. I'm a human. And I'm trans. I know how it feels to be trapped in this place. I know how it feels to suffer. I know how it feels when nobody seems to understand you. I know how it feels when you can't open up to anybody because you fear judgemental reactions and involuntary hospitalisation when you just say the wrong words. And I know the dire need to find relief from pain. Do you, Jonels? You, who claims to speak for all the suicidal people out there, do you represent their interests and their needs? Really?

Chapter three. Are we a cult?
[responding to "Don't seek help", "A note about cults", "Malicious actors"]

You claim that this community is a cult, giving us three indicators that this is the case.

First, a cult has a "highly peculiar" alternative ideology, which runs contrary to mainstream - you claim that applies to us.
Second, a cult has "ridicilous hostility" towards mental health professionals and the idea of treatment.
Third, a cult is notorious for cutting people off from their support networks.

I mean, honestly, these are quite vague and I haven't seen a clear definition of a cult yet that would match the purpose of this forum. You could apply the first point to any community that whose ideals aren't mainstream yet and especially with the combination of the second or even the third point, I see a common theme. You know, I'm a trans woman. And there is a long history of the media misrepresenting who we are. And you're doing a similiar thing right now. I mean, let's look at some headlines, right?


There are prominent vocal right-wingers who use exactly the same points to go after trans people. They call us the LGBT cult, they claim we groom children.


It's exactly the same thing. If you apply some bad faith, you can make any movement look bad with the right framing. And that's you're doing right now. Congrats Tantacrul, you learned from the best. Take very vague descriptions of a cult and apply them without any nuance and consideration for context to the entire community and ooops, we look like the bad guys.

What do you know about me? Nothing. But you have no problem smearing me as a bad-faith actor, as someone who simply acts on bad intentions. I mean, that's a common theme, you know. I belong to many subcultures that have endured the same slander. I'm transgender, that's why I immediately knew where your narrative is coming from. Do you see how the media hounds us trans people? The way you talk about this community of struggling people comes from the same place of judgement. We're victims, not perpetrators. You're just a different color of judgement. This time you're not lashing out against trans people who supposedly groom vulnerable people, you're lashing out against suicidal people who supposedly do the same. Suicidal people who appreciate this forum, people who voluntarily seeked this community as a source of support. And don't they have a right to have a safe space without the forced narratives, the same bullshit you're pulling right now on suicidal people? Oh no, "we need to save them", right? We need to get the nanny state to take down this community, right? That's what you're doing right now but you're not speaking for anyone. You're only speaking for yourself and your language is bigotry.

Next, you you said this community is an echo chamber of negative thoughts and nihilistic view points and you claim to prove that with how many examples? 5 posts? 6 posts? Are these representative examples of the entire community? You mentioned "Cake123" who has several thousand posts but why are they representative of the entire community? You're cherry picking members who suit your narrative, we have members in this forum with even more posts who disagree with that particular member. I just want to make something clear. We have 1'700'000 posts in this forum and we have over 26'000 members and you pick a few anecdotal(!) cases, intentionally leaving out important context to paint a narrative I've already debunked repeatedly before, for example when I responded to the NYT article. So if you think debunking your video is gonna be difficult, you're mistaken, Tantarcul. As I just said, we have several thousand members who came to this place because it gave them something. Do you speak for them? You claim this forum has 10 million monthly visitors on average, doesn't that send a message to you, Tantacrul? Do you really speak for people who are struggling or are you just merely pretending to be talking for them? Maybe that's the problem. Let's make one thing clear, you are talking about suicidal people and not(!) for them. You haven't really engaged with this community in good faith and maybe that's the reason why people rather come to us? Who would want to seek support from someone who slanders 25k suicidal people, people who are literally suffering so much, as a cult of predators? That's so telling. It's always the same with you people, it's only judgemental toxic slander. Every single time and you always think it's so brilliant...

There are several scientific studies researching this forum and none of them describe this community as pro-mortalist. We might have individual members, vocal members who subscribe to an efilist worldview but then again, this is a forum for adults so shouldn't they have a right to speak their mind? That's the point of this forum, right? Being able to speak your mind in a safe space, right? That's absolutely the contrary of a cult. And all the active members who clearly disagree with me on various subjects prove that point.

Next, you take one case of someone who has been convicted and sentenced for doing things to other people outside of this forum and imply that we are in some way responsible for this. Again, predators exist in every community.


They're on Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, they are on Twitch, they have been on MySpace - pretending that this has anything to do with this forum just proves you're ignorant about the nature of the internet. Yeah, this forum does attract a few bad apples due to the nature of this forum but keep in mind, you have have one(!) conviction for a forum with 25k members that has existed for over 5 years and the conviction itself has nothing to do with the purpose of this community. This guy deserved to get punished for violating other people for sexual pleasure. I have no problem saying that. But are predators overrepresented in this community or are you just framing this forum in a particularly bad way with one singular case of a crime? Again, this community has 25k members. How representative is your little anecdotal case then? Not very representative at all, am I right?
Yeah, that's what I thought. Of course a community like ours that has vulnerable people (which doesn't translate to "no individual autonomy" btw) attracts bad apples. If we have reasonable doubts about someones intention, we reserve our right to boot them from the community. But you can't reads minds, that's why you're assuming I'm a bad-faith actor, and I can't read minds, that's why I don't know the intentions of people who come to this community. It's as simple as that. Of course I could ban anyone I consider dubious but who wants to be in a community where I single-handedly rule who is allowed to be here and who isnt?

Chapter four. Protecting the vulnerable
[responding to "protecting the vulnerable"]

You bring up the fact that people need to agree that they are of sound mind when they use the website. You quote a professor who said "People... take their own lives when they can see no end to their pain, when they feel trapped by it and that there is no way. Like physical pain, there is only so much mental pain that we can withstand and, when we reach our limit, something has to give. Sadly, for too many people, it is life that gives".

What an absurd quote. First of all, it implies that any kind of pain is temporary and that relief from pain is never an option if it results in someone's decision to exercise their right to die. I think your quote doesn't actually delegitimize the forum, it legitimizes it, making clear that some pain is so difficult to endure that providing relief in the form of death is an act of mercy. That's the key philosophy behind assisted suicide. What's the problem here? How does that relate to the forum?

And you criticise that we don't protect vulnerable people enough. Well, luckily I already addressed that talking point in a previous thread. Being vulnerable doesn't mean you are unable to make rational decisions, see this study:

I have to reject your entire premise based on that scientific study. I think vulnerable people have a right to individual autonomy, so they also have right to make decisions they consider appropiate for the current situation. We both know protecting "vulnerabel people" is a scape goat to go after all people who are struggling, it's a deeply regressive notion, it's an extension of the "think of the children"-fallacy and it comes from a social-conservative interpretion of liberty. I don't even know why you bring up that topic in the first place, it's not a topic specific to this forum, the question if vulnerable people should roam the internet freely without any protections is a conversation we should have when we talk about safety on the internet in general and if it's okay to infringe on the individual autonomy of adults in certain situations. But as I said, I reject your premise and the study I've linked seems to agree with me.

You're also implying that a distressed mental state is only temporary but how do you know? We had member in this forum who experience strong depression and suicidality for years, myself included by the way. What's the point of that talking point? We simply don't know if someone can recover from their struggle. I know a lot of people can't. Are we just gonna throw them under the bus and prolong their life indefinitely even when they scream and yell for relief? Is that a compassionate position?

As I said, you shouldn't pretend to talk for suicidal people. You don't. You have no idea about the subject matter and you should have sticked to music.
How do you even know if people who register in this community don't have the mental capacity to use this forum? It's just an assumption, nothing else. I think people who specifically seek out the content of this forum know what they want. And most people here don't sound like they're in some kind of episode as you suggest. The vast majority of members can describe very well why they are here. If you just spent a little bit of time here instead of being a judgemental dork, you would realize that we have plenty of members who have been struggling for years without relief. And you're essentially sitting on your chair, probably not knowing what it means to suffer, and you scream you want more, you want more? More of what? More suffering? And you think that's the compassionate position?

Chapter five. Instruction threads and the "marketplace"
[responding to "the instructions thread", "the marketplace"]

You're implying we work with Exit. It's a conspiracy theory. The forum doesn't make any profit, period. Your claim that this forum is illegal in most countries is therefore incorrect. Nobody is allowed to sell anything on the forum. If we find out, we take action. Your claim that the forum works as a marketplace is therefore false as well. You shouldn't listen so much to Kelli. She doesn't understand anything and she is simply spreading misinformation to make the forum look twice as bad. But I'll talk about her later.

Not a good look, Tantacrul. The website isn't illegal, that's why we're still here. There have been countless attempts to deplatform us, don't worry. Shout as much as you want.

Chapter six. Bobby C
[responding to "assisting those below 18"]

You claim that we knew who Bobby C was. We don't. It's as simple as that. It's all just really a fallacy. He was a member of your community too, right? So I could ask, hey why didn't this guy feel comfortable enough to open up in your server if you're such a great guy? I could play the same blame game but that doesn't really bring us anywhere. We can all point the fingers all day long and pretend this forum the only factor when it comes to someones decision to make a tragic choice. That's not the case and you know that. I'm just curious, why did you start caring about that guy when it was too late? Do you even care or is this video just an attempt to virtue signal what a great person you are? Your choice.

Chapter seven. Responsible reporting

Right at the very start, (at the 4 minute mark) Tantacrul claims that he wants to follow guidelines on media reporting about suicide and that's why he claims he doesn't want to mention the name of the website. But there is a just a problem. He already liked and followed several people on Twitter who have the name of the website in their bio. So it's unavoidable that his community will find its way to this forum.

View attachment 103733

If someone from his audience wants to dig a little bit deeper into the forum that's mentioned in his video, it's not gonna be very difficult to find it, thanks to him following people who use social media to spread awareness about this community. So let's make one thing clear. He intentionally exposes his audience to this forum, I consider this a little bit hypocritical. Just to make clear who acts responsible in this situation. And here is the thing, based on the screenshots you've included in your video, people will find this forum. What do you think happened every time when a news outlet covered the existence of this forum? It increased our member count.

It was a big mistake to talk about this forum because as I'm writing this thread, just a few hours after you published your video, we already had thousands of guests. The registration queue spiked, depressed people from your community want to join our forum. I'm asking you right now, given you think this is a very bad place: can you live with the guilt, when your audience makes accounts in this forum, a place that's apparently so bad, it needs political legislation to be taken down?

View attachment 103740

"Everyone's got their priority I suppose."

Your goal to follow media guidelines already backfired. And if you really think your video is gonna change anything, after the NYT already covered us on their front page, you're mistaken. I can defend my position, this community and the existence of this forum with a clear conscience. I've done this repeatedly in the past. And you know why I did that? Because I believe in something. I believe in individual autonomy and I believe in compassionate treatment of struggling people, so much, that I dedicate a large junk of my life for that cause. I don't spend a lot of time taking down what other people have built, I spent my time maintaining this community because I believe it's a good thing. And what are you doing? You're making a video concern trolling about this forum but I can assure you, if you read the messages I've read of people who were bedridden, haunted with so much physical pain they couldn't even leave their bed anymore, you'd think twice about posting such a video, throwing these people under the bus. No, if you have talked to these people, you would become an activist for compassionate treatment of these people and that includes the right to die. Because, here is the deal, for some people, the only relief from pain is death. That's why in my country we legalized assisted suicide to the fullest extend. The right to die is a neglected topic, almost every single country outlawed assisted suicide but there is a need for it, and that's why this forum has legitimacy and that's why people seek to participate in this forum. It's all about neglected needs. I live in one of the few countries that legalized assisted suicide. You don't. You don't want the forum to exist? Then get to work and make sure the people that write desperate messages to me don't have to use this forum to find peace in their last moments of their life.

Chapter eight. Who are the opponents of Sanctioned Suicide?
[responding to "taking action"]


A lot of your information is based on claims from people you call "grieving family members". The spearhead of these grieving parents is Kelli. She leads FixThe26 and is the most vocal opponent of this forum. I have thought about this for a long time but given that these people still successfully pretend to be victims, I have to break my silence about the behavior of these people. FixThe26 and the woman who is behind that organisation has a history of harassing, slandering, stalking, mocking and threatening members of our community. When she doxed Mahakali, a well-known member here, posting a picture of her on Twitter, it enraged the entire community. Let's take a look at her actions.

View attachment 103744

View attachment 103743

I have censored the image. Kelli didn't censor it. It was an attempt to silence a critic. Someone who has been a member in the forum. I talked to Mahakali and she confirmed that this instance here greatly contributed to her suffering. This is enough to push someone over the edge. She died one month later.

View attachment 103741

Here she encouraged physical violence on the past site owner, saying he should get publicly executed. Lynch mob. This is a woman that's highly unstable and she has every reason to spread misinformation and outright lies about this community. I know you didn't know that, Tantacrul. But maybe you should have done your research. You think I made it up? Just recently her account twitter.com/fixthe26 got suspended, finally.

View attachment 103745

She engaged in so much targeted harassement and abuse. There are more victims. And all the other family members you included in your video, I'm not gonna name them to protect their identity, have engaged in similiar behavior. Someone celebrated when a member of our community committed suicide after months of abuse and bullying she directed towards that member. They love to play with the identity, leak names. They play the intimidation games really well. Jeremy, an ex-member who has done an interview for Fixthe26, has stalked and harassed a trans member of our community. The list is long. But this thread isn't about these people, I don't play these games. This thread is about your inability to do proper research and take everything they say for granted to craft a narrative that's dangerous to say the least.

But here is the deal. These people aren't victims. They didn't take their own life. They're predators. And it's important to know that not one single "grieving parent" so far has condemned what Kelli has done under that username, the opposite is the case. They all engage in the same kind of harassement towards members of this community. Kelli has already created a new account, twitter.com/SanctionedStop. She is actively cirumcumventing her Twitter ban. So once again, these people weaponized grief. They have spread so many lies about this community and when I took leadership of this community, they did the same to me.

And look. I'm not gonna tell you what to think. I'm a free thinker, not a cultist as you claim. You can make up your own mind. But you should ask yourself, why are the most vocal opponents of this forum predators who harass and stalk individuals like that?
Read this thread if you want to know more about these people and their shady behavior.

Last but not least, these screenshot of me supposedly attacking these people doesn't display anything I have written. As I said, these people have every reason to spread misinformation. Every time someone takes time to criticise them on Twitter, they claim it's me. As if I don't have better things to do than create account after account after account. And if you knew what else they think to know about me, you would know that they don't know anything about me. They're not gonna like that, but that's the truth.

Chapter nine. Online safety bill
[responding to "taking action"]

I already wrote a thread about this and if you value freedom of speech and privacy, you shouldn't support it.

Chapter ten. The mental health system
[responding to "Please seek help. You are not alone."]


Last but not least you finally address the flaws in our system. I'm impressed. Your video takes 46 minutes to watch and you dedicate a few seconds when the video is about to end about the mental health system. Did you address coercision as a common practice? Human rights violations? No. You just claim there are a few problems and that's it, for example that many of us can't talk about being suicidal because we get shamed. But do you even understand the scope of the problem? It's not just about shaming people, which is one of the reasons people would rather come to this forum to discuss deeply personal issues, it's about coercision on a systemic level. Human rights violations. You can get locked up if you tell your doctor that you're suicidal. Talking about your suicidality is a game with fire, I have played it before and you can burn yourself really badly.

So when you claim that this forum or the community has cult-like behavior, referring to members of this community spreading negative sentiments towards mental health institutions or their parents, there is a fucking reason. First of all, I never did any of that, okay. I'm not aware that we are discouraging people from talking to important people in their lives about their problems. But we also need to look at the circumstances of most members in this community. I just recently launched a poll, asking members if their parents contributed to their suffering because my parents certainly played their role when it comes to my struggles. And according to that poll, around 75%(!) of all respondents said their parents contributed in some way to their struggles. So wouldn't it only be a natural theme of this community that members distrust their parents in some way? You don't think there is a very personal reason why so many of us are anti-natalists? And most importantly, many of us dealt with traumatic experiencs around involuntary hospitalisation, then again, wouldn't it be only natural to have concerns around that, especially when they neglect our individual autonomy and our bodily integrity, which are very fundamental concepts of any civilisation? I had close friends of mine describe very horrible and traumatic experiences, which happened as a result of involuntary hospitalisation, some even said they would rather die(!) then ever go back. Maybe you're simply arguing from a position of ignorance, Tantacrul. And maybe you said all of these things about this community because you don't really care about the well being of suicidal people, about the horrible human rights violations we have to endure in these institutions when we open up. Maybe that's the reason why all of that was so easy for you to say but you forget that the people you blame are the same people you claim to care so much about. Odd, isn't it. Again, if people in this community have a negative opinion of their family members or of their doctors, there is certainly a reason for that.

And about mental health, here is a tweet from someone who has recently committed suicide. She was a suicide prevention activist.


Maybe, the problem with mental health isn't just that you get shamed a little bit if you open up, you donk. Look here.


Maybe that gives you a hint? Come on.

And look, I also want to get one point across. No amount of therapy fixes physical or mental pain, political discrimination and financial problems. There are some problems you can't fix with the mental health system because we live in a society that doesn't really care about struggling people. You want some examples from a trans woman?


So you're essentially defending that system with that video and blaming us for speaking out. You're a part of the problem. I live in a country with a high rate of involuntary hospitalisation and it's not cool. You really need to be careful with your words if you value your freedom, especially when you're suicidal and talking to a doctor.

And let's make some things clear, before I end my response to your poorly researched video. You ended your video on this note:
"Every step closer can connect someone to life and the help they want, sometimes those steps are big but sometimes, all it takes is a smile"

That's literally how you decided to end that video, your most meaningful video ever - with an empty platitude. Do you think people in this community who are in so much pain that they literally want to end their lives want your smile? It just proves all over again that you have no idea about the suffering that's happening in this community. You're blind and you'll never be able to understand. Do you think that was a smart way to end the video? It wasn't. You're the perfect example of everything that's wrong with this society. You just showed us every problem with suicide, the way we handle it both as a societal problem but also as a human right. And it shows me you don't care.

My compassion for people doesn't end with suicide prevention. Suicide prevention without addressing systemic issues that causes suidiality in the first place is meaningless. There are so many problems in this world, repeating the suicide hotline every time you talk about suicide is merely a bandaid but it doesn't fix anything. I want more people to live happy and decent lives but those who want a way out, should have a way out. 99% of the world outlawed assisted suicide and you point the finger to that one forum that that breaks the stigma around the right to die?

I'm done with my response. I think I made my case. And I think I was very clear about my opinion. It took a lot of time to write that. Thanks for reading.

Thank you for writing this. I was disgusted by the way Tantacrul basically called everyone on this site "murderers" whilst he elevated those who have passed away (also from this site) as martyrs. there is no logic in that.
Basically, if you are part of this group that are alive, you are evil, and if you are dead, you were an innocent victim. Therefore, giving us all one escape from being the bad guy to being the innocent angel. The very suicide that they are so against.
Of course, I don't want children on this site. I don't want children on any adult sites, for that matter. But these ant-suicide folks are missing the main point. Happy people don't look for CTB sites. It's not as though some happy people just happened upon this site accidentally, happened to sign up and be accepted and then change their entire minds and decided to end their fulfilling and wonderful lives.
I feel sorry for loved ones left behind and I understand why they would look for somebody to blame. Obviously part of the wonders if they are the ones who pushed the person away or if they didn't do enough. So they want to point the finger elsewhere. But I think BBC and Tantacrul are just looking for views. They could dedicate a heck of a lot more time and money to mental health care, goodness knows it needs it. But they aren't.
I mean, if they really want people to, I guess, cheer up and get on with their lives, would they attack a bunch of people on a suicide site and accuse them of being murderers? Do they think they're helping us to want to live more by doing that? attacking us? Really, they're just proving our point.
Come on. If we all died tomorrow. Tantacrul what finally get the YouTube status that he's always wanted.
 
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Cleanthes

Cleanthes

Member
Apr 15, 2019
20
Very well put, SaffronSugar, the forum members cannot at the same time be both murderers and victims. I think, though I have no way to know, that the principle objections to the forum are 1) it enables the sourcing of the means of suicide 2) it is sympathetic to those who express suicidal thoughts (as are the Samaritans) 3) it makes no attempt to screen out minors. Making some attempt to fix the last thing might go a long way to defusing the criticisms. My own perspective on the first point is as follows. I have lost friends to awful, slowly degenerative, painful diseases. I turn 70 next month and want to have something in my back pocket in case I should get one of these diseases. But UK and other nations are still ruled by Christian morality, and the state makes it extremely difficult to source well-known, painless, even blissful means of suicide. So this was why I needed to explore this forum, I think 4 years ago. And thanks to the forum, though I couldn't get hold of an opiate, my first choice, I did find a way to source nembutal. That in conjunction with zopiclone and alcohol will need to suffice. So what I'm saying is that because the state is so prohibitive it actually forces people to come to such a forum as this. "You do it to yourself, you do."
 
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Dot

Dot

Globl mod | Info abt typng styl on prfle.
Sep 26, 2021
2,525
3) it makes no attempt to screen out minors.

Jst an FYI tht screenng fr minrs ds happn

Th/ critcsm = tht SaSu ds nt ask fr ID-verficatn whch cn only happn if all membrs gve up thr privcy

Bt applcatns r rejectd if applicnt = suspctd of b-ing a minr & membrs r bannd if thy r provn t/ b a minr or if thre = reasnble suspicn

Membrs r askd t/ rport n.e1 thy suspct of b-ing a minr

Tbf tho -- Fixrs mke claims tht SaSu = intentlly 'luring in minrs' & 'trappng minrs' in ordr 2 convnce thm t/ ctb

Whch = obvsly cmpletly untru

1000003230

No1 = 'preyng on childrn' or 'settng trps'

Minrs r nt wantd hre
 
Cleanthes

Cleanthes

Member
Apr 15, 2019
20
It took me a while to interpret your comment, Dot, but if it is true that the forum already goes to these lengths to screen out minors, someone should tell the BBC. At the moment you are being publicly demonised, you have the right to defend yourselves. To my mind, the privacy of members or applicants is a very important issue. You would only have to speak to the Samaritans to find that they have the same respect for client privacy and confidentiality. Back in the 90s I worked for a while with the Samaritans. If a kid turned up at the office in person, all you needed to do was ask their age. If they said they were under 18 you needed to report that to an administrator immediately due to child protection issues. If you suspected the kid was lying, you would alert admin anyway. At no time did anyone request ID.
 
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Dot

Dot

Globl mod | Info abt typng styl on prfle.
Sep 26, 2021
2,525
It took me a while to interpret your comment, Dot, but if it is true that the forum already goes to these lengths to screen out minors, someone should tell the BBC. At the moment you are being publicly demonised, you have the right to defend yourselves. To my mind, the privacy of members or applicants is a very important issue. You would only have to speak to the Samaritans to find that they have the same respect for client privacy and confidentiality. Back in the 90s I worked for a while with the Samaritans. If a kid turned up at the office in person, all you needed to do was ask their age. If they said they were under 18 you needed to report that to an administrator immediately due to child protection issues. If you suspected the kid was lying, you would alert admin anyway. At no time did anyone request ID.

Othrs cn hlp transl8 if typng = diffclt 2 undrstnd

Fixrs knw ths bt thy r pushng a narr8tve -- BBC & othr paprs all calld SaSu 'pro-suicde' -- thy r nt intrstd in wht SaSu membrs sy

Slf usd 2 b a Samrtan also - ppl d/ nt undtstnd tht thy r also pro-chce

Rain&Sadnss hs writtn multple threds tryn2 defnd th/ frum bt media nevr tke thse sersly

N.ethng neg8tve wll alwys b takn v sersly tho

Intrstng tht
 
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Adûnâi

Adûnâi

Little Russian in-cel
Apr 25, 2020
860
Jst an FYI tht screenng fr minrs ds happn
Regarding the Tweet image - I'm inherently a collectivist, but I'm not delusional, and I do find it distasteful to call children as belonging to their parents. Because there are only two camps - for child-burning, and against. Unfortunately, zero child-burning is not a sustainable survival strategy, hence I concur with @FuneralCry in calling existence itself abominable and an affront to decency.
 
B

Bodydysmorphia34

-
Oct 31, 2023
58
I am fairly new to SaSu so please bear with me. In Tantacrul's video, he claims members of SaSu would encourage people to die (even using a clickbait thumbnail with the words "do it"). I've never seen anyone here actively encouraging anyone to die (more like the opposite), and it's clearly forbidden in the forum rules.

In his video he also claims that SaSu "encourages isolation against your family and advises seeking help". There's literally an entire section dedicated to recovery.. Also, can someone tell me where SaSu tells you to isolate yourself from your family?

If I were to publish a video that could be seen by millions of people, I'd be careful about lying.. seems like you can get away with everything as long as you are "pro life".
 
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G

gbi2

Specialist
Jul 10, 2023
311
I've checked out some of his videos before as I am into music production, but found them quite toxic myself, such as the one where he responds disrespectfully and antagonisingly to thoughty2.

It seems if he disagrees with something he'll turn to taking pot shots and belittling someone rather than having a mature and reasonable discussion.

Doesn't it go without saying that everyone hopes everyone else has tried everything they can before making this difficult decision? Do we have to type out in every post that someone show exhaust all avenues for help over and over again before killing themselves. Sometimes how we feel and think are so obvious we stop saying it, then someone like him comes along and misunderstands that because we don't say the alternatives that we don't wish someone to try them.

And when someone says something like "it can be solved with a smile" or "Think positively" is a way of saying I want to look like I care but I really don't.
 
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Anemoia

Anemoia

New Member
Apr 12, 2023
4
The youtuber Tantacrul, also known in this forum as @Jonels, finally recorded a video about this community, in which he slandered and insulted our members and I've decided to respond to him directly. He has been obsessed with this forum for the last few weeks, creating alt-account after alt-account to force his narrative on other people. A little reminder on how all of this started, back in November 2022.









These are some snippets of his posts before I kicked him from this community. I made pretty clear in that thread that he is allowed to use this forum and express criticism towards this forum as long as it's fair and in good faith. It's obvious from the posts above that this wasn't the case so I gave him the boot. As a result of that, he announced that he would make a video about this forum. It's pretty obvious that all of this is done solely because he wants to cause damage to this community because we didn't give him a platform for his immature behavior. And look, Tantacrul, you might not mention me and this forum by name but I'll mention you by name.

Chapter one. The real philosophy of this website
[responding to "How does the site work?", "The philosophy of this site"]

What's the purpose of this forum? Obviously Tantacrul isn't really interested in portraying this forum in a fair light, the video he made obviously doesn't have the intention to start a discussion about the moral implications of this forum with fair arguments. It's a direct response of us banning him for repeatedly(!) violating the rules back in November when he insulted the community and claimed we are reponsible for the death of another person. It's supposed to be another hitpiece, similiar to the one in December 2021 from the NYT.

I already explained this here but the purpose of this forum is to provide a safe space for suicidal or struggling people in general to discuss deeply personal topics without censorship. That's the most straight-forward answer. I would add that this forum also provides a space to talk about these subjects without a forced narrative and that's one of the reasons why this place is so appealing to so many people. If you talk about your problems with anyone out there, it always comes with restrictions. If you say a little bit too loud that you are suicidal, you have to expect severe backlash and in the worst case, involuntary hospitalisation. I'll get to this point later, this is gonna be a very detailed response to the accusations directed at this community.
Another aspects what makes this forum so appealing to so many people is the fact that you can talk about your suicidality in this place without the risk of intervention. Instead, you receive honest compassion and empathy because we're all mind-liked people. We all suffer together in this place and we're all respecting each others boundaries. And that's important because I didn't experience that out there, I simply didn't. And we talk to each other with an even ground, which isn't the case when you talk to a psychiatrist for example, there is a very different power dynamic in such conversations than here. And this aspect of the forum, which has caused so many people to stay, hasn't even been mentioned once. This forum saves lives, without a doubt.

And there are people in this community that have been suffering for years for various reasons and unlike Tantacruls narrative, this community doesn't just consist of young people who are impulsive and eager to engage in harmful behavior without much thought. Tantacrul doesn't understand that nobody becomes suicidal in a vacuum. We all have valid reasons to be in this forum. He pretends that people are lured into this community for no reason and then convinced to kill themselves just for fun. That's obviously not true, I don't even know where to start when I want to debunk this claim. But reading through the registration queue and the posts in this forum from new members makes very clear to me that most members who come to this place have a long experience with mental or physical health problems. And if someone comes to this place, they specifically seek out a forum with our philosophy, for a reason. Let's make one thing clear, people register in this place voluntarily because they have needs they want to address in this forum. And that's okay.

Here are some scientific articles digging into the nature of this forum and you will realize rather quickly that scientists have called this community pro-choice repeatedly in the past. These articles provide a very nuanced insight into this community and I appreciated the work that's been done.
Now, let's dig into the next claim.
You claim that this forum consists of 4 philosophies around the nine minute mark.
1. Nihilism.
2. Anti-natalism
3. Pro-mortalism
4. Libertarianism

While the first two philosophies are actually quite common in this forum, pro-mortalism and libertarianism isn't. There might be individual members who have libertarian or efilist beliefs but to say that these are dominant philosophies as you claim is absurd. There is a reason why nihilism and anti-natalism are common themes in this forum, it's because depressed people tend to have a more negative outlook on life compared to the rest of the population. It's quite natural actually and it's not really a surprise that this community tends to be more nihilistic compared to the average population. And anti-natalism, which is also more common in this community, is a belief that's shared in this forum because many of us didn't have the best parents and sometimes, our own parents contributed to our suffering. But I'll go into details about this later.

I don't know why you claim pro-mortalism is a dominant philosophy in this forum, it's not. Again, there might be individual posters who hold a pro-mortalist belief but that's in no way representative for the entire community. And that's really important because you use this framing over the course of the entire video to portray this forum as some kind of cult that pushes people into suicide because we supposedly gain satisfaction from doing so. That's a lie. Most members here recognise that ending your life is a serious act and shouldn't be done without severe introspection. But we regularly applaud and celebrate when members announce that they're leaving the forum because they have recovered. That's a good thing. Shouldn't that be obvious? Regarding libertarianism, you seem to confuse a fundamental basic human right like self-determination for libertarianism and I don't know why how you came to that conclusion. For me, it tells me a lot about your ignorance around this topic. The right to die is a human right and the ECHR has agreed with me on that topic repeatedly.

View attachment 103738
European Center for Law and Justice

View attachment 103737
The International Journal Of Human Rights

And that's the most shared value in this forum: self-determination, you being the only decision maker when it comes to matters that affect your welfare. And for many of us in this forum, we consider the right to die a human right. This has nothing to do with libertarianism as you claim but everything with individual autonomy, those are very fundamental values of every civilisation. And you live in the UK, right? So I wonder, why don't you value the right to die as a fundamental right? Do you disagree that people should have the right to make deeply personal decisions about their own life without interference of the state? That would be a regressive idea. Are you regressive, Tantacrul? Do you want to go back to times where women and men didn't have the legal right to make their own decisions concerning their welfare? I don't really think so.

But your attempt to slander this forum as some kind of obscure cult already failed. I believe in the right to die as a human right. I think every person who consider their life unworthy of living for various reasons, and the most common reason is chronic mental and physical pain, should have a right to exercise their right to die without interference of the state. And this sentiment has just recently been reinforced by the Federal Consitutional Court of Germany, making clear in their court ruling that the right to die isn't "restriced to serious or terminal diseases or specific phases of life or of a disease". It would contradict the fact that the right to die "is rooted in human dignity" and therefore does "NOT require any additional explanation or justification". The court also made clear that the right to die "also includes the right to seek and use voluntarily offered help to do so and that's by far the most progressive court ruling to this day, validating the right to die as a basic human right.
It seems to me that your entire video is based on a misunderstanding of the right to die. You consider the right to die a controversial topic and people fighting for ways to exercise said rights must be malicious actors according to your video but that's not really the case if you do some research about the ethical consensus in various countries regarding suicide and assisted suicide too. That's very important. You claim that sharing ressources and information regarding ways to exercise our right to die is bad and evil, I say it's an act of compassion. Let's end this here and come back to this topic later.

Chapter two. What are my beliefs
[responding to "who is responsible for setting up this site?"]

You dedicate a lot of your video talking about my beliefs without actually knowing why I'm a member in this forum.
I'm a trans woman who has suffered their entire life. My childhood was ruined by neglectful parents and I've had a terrible upbringing. As a result of that I experienced suicidal ideation very early in my life. Being trans teached me that we live in a society that doesn't really give a fuck about marginalised people. That's why I have become a member in this forum. During the years I have realized that the right to die is a deeply neglected right, in the majority of the world it's surpressed and you're not really allowed to talk openly about suicide. If you want to know more about the stigma around mental health, just talk to a few members of this forum and ask them why they are active in this forum.
I'm secular. I don't believe in any religion. And I consider the right to die when you're suffering so much that you can't take it any longer a compassionate and empathic position. I think people like you who fear monger about this forum and take valid criticism to the extreme are not acting in good faith. You claim this forum has anything to do with inceldom. If you did some research, you would know that inceldom isn't really a common theme in this forum. You will find so many different groups with different backgrounds in this community, we're actually quite diverse and people are here for very different reason. We're also very heterogenic when it comes to ideology. You claim we're a cult and that we all believe in the same thing. That's not really true. We disagree on so many topics. Some members are left-wing, some are right-wing, some are socially conservative and some are more liberal. I had so many political discussions with people who had a different opinion than me and that's okay. We don't really have any common goals in this forum. The only thing that truly connects us is the need for a place to talk about deeply personal topics without censorship and a forced narrative and the idea that we should have a right to make deeply decisions without intervention of a third party. And that's it.

Here is the deal. I've been suicidal my entire life. I'm not just an admin, I'm a member myself. I'm a human. And I'm trans. I know how it feels to be trapped in this place. I know how it feels to suffer. I know how it feels when nobody seems to understand you. I know how it feels when you can't open up to anybody because you fear judgemental reactions and involuntary hospitalisation when you just say the wrong words. And I know the dire need to find relief from pain. Do you, Jonels? You, who claims to speak for all the suicidal people out there, do you represent their interests and their needs? Really?

Chapter three. Are we a cult?
[responding to "Don't seek help", "A note about cults", "Malicious actors"]

You claim that this community is a cult, giving us three indicators that this is the case.

First, a cult has a "highly peculiar" alternative ideology, which runs contrary to mainstream - you claim that applies to us.
Second, a cult has "ridicilous hostility" towards mental health professionals and the idea of treatment.
Third, a cult is notorious for cutting people off from their support networks.

I mean, honestly, these are quite vague and I haven't seen a clear definition of a cult yet that would match the purpose of this forum. You could apply the first point to any community that whose ideals aren't mainstream yet and especially with the combination of the second or even the third point, I see a common theme. You know, I'm a trans woman. And there is a long history of the media misrepresenting who we are. And you're doing a similiar thing right now. I mean, let's look at some headlines, right?


There are prominent vocal right-wingers who use exactly the same points to go after trans people. They call us the LGBT cult, they claim we groom children.


It's exactly the same thing. If you apply some bad faith, you can make any movement look bad with the right framing. And that's you're doing right now. Congrats Tantacrul, you learned from the best. Take very vague descriptions of a cult and apply them without any nuance and consideration for context to the entire community and ooops, we look like the bad guys.

What do you know about me? Nothing. But you have no problem smearing me as a bad-faith actor, as someone who simply acts on bad intentions. I mean, that's a common theme, you know. I belong to many subcultures that have endured the same slander. I'm transgender, that's why I immediately knew where your narrative is coming from. Do you see how the media hounds us trans people? The way you talk about this community of struggling people comes from the same place of judgement. We're victims, not perpetrators. You're just a different color of judgement. This time you're not lashing out against trans people who supposedly groom vulnerable people, you're lashing out against suicidal people who supposedly do the same. Suicidal people who appreciate this forum, people who voluntarily seeked this community as a source of support. And don't they have a right to have a safe space without the forced narratives, the same bullshit you're pulling right now on suicidal people? Oh no, "we need to save them", right? We need to get the nanny state to take down this community, right? That's what you're doing right now but you're not speaking for anyone. You're only speaking for yourself and your language is bigotry.

Next, you you said this community is an echo chamber of negative thoughts and nihilistic view points and you claim to prove that with how many examples? 5 posts? 6 posts? Are these representative examples of the entire community? You mentioned "Cake123" who has several thousand posts but why are they representative of the entire community? You're cherry picking members who suit your narrative, we have members in this forum with even more posts who disagree with that particular member. I just want to make something clear. We have 1'700'000 posts in this forum and we have over 26'000 members and you pick a few anecdotal(!) cases, intentionally leaving out important context to paint a narrative I've already debunked repeatedly before, for example when I responded to the NYT article. So if you think debunking your video is gonna be difficult, you're mistaken, Tantarcul. As I just said, we have several thousand members who came to this place because it gave them something. Do you speak for them? You claim this forum has 10 million monthly visitors on average, doesn't that send a message to you, Tantacrul? Do you really speak for people who are struggling or are you just merely pretending to be talking for them? Maybe that's the problem. Let's make one thing clear, you are talking about suicidal people and not(!) for them. You haven't really engaged with this community in good faith and maybe that's the reason why people rather come to us? Who would want to seek support from someone who slanders 25k suicidal people, people who are literally suffering so much, as a cult of predators? That's so telling. It's always the same with you people, it's only judgemental toxic slander. Every single time and you always think it's so brilliant...

There are several scientific studies researching this forum and none of them describe this community as pro-mortalist. We might have individual members, vocal members who subscribe to an efilist worldview but then again, this is a forum for adults so shouldn't they have a right to speak their mind? That's the point of this forum, right? Being able to speak your mind in a safe space, right? That's absolutely the contrary of a cult. And all the active members who clearly disagree with me on various subjects prove that point.

Next, you take one case of someone who has been convicted and sentenced for doing things to other people outside of this forum and imply that we are in some way responsible for this. Again, predators exist in every community.


They're on Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, they are on Twitch, they have been on MySpace - pretending that this has anything to do with this forum just proves you're ignorant about the nature of the internet. Yeah, this forum does attract a few bad apples due to the nature of this forum but keep in mind, you have have one(!) conviction for a forum with 25k members that has existed for over 5 years and the conviction itself has nothing to do with the purpose of this community. This guy deserved to get punished for violating other people for sexual pleasure. I have no problem saying that. But are predators overrepresented in this community or are you just framing this forum in a particularly bad way with one singular case of a crime? Again, this community has 25k members. How representative is your little anecdotal case then? Not very representative at all, am I right?
Yeah, that's what I thought. Of course a community like ours that has vulnerable people (which doesn't translate to "no individual autonomy" btw) attracts bad apples. If we have reasonable doubts about someones intention, we reserve our right to boot them from the community. But you can't reads minds, that's why you're assuming I'm a bad-faith actor, and I can't read minds, that's why I don't know the intentions of people who come to this community. It's as simple as that. Of course I could ban anyone I consider dubious but who wants to be in a community where I single-handedly rule who is allowed to be here and who isnt?

Chapter four. Protecting the vulnerable
[responding to "protecting the vulnerable"]

You bring up the fact that people need to agree that they are of sound mind when they use the website. You quote a professor who said "People... take their own lives when they can see no end to their pain, when they feel trapped by it and that there is no way. Like physical pain, there is only so much mental pain that we can withstand and, when we reach our limit, something has to give. Sadly, for too many people, it is life that gives".

What an absurd quote. First of all, it implies that any kind of pain is temporary and that relief from pain is never an option if it results in someone's decision to exercise their right to die. I think your quote doesn't actually delegitimize the forum, it legitimizes it, making clear that some pain is so difficult to endure that providing relief in the form of death is an act of mercy. That's the key philosophy behind assisted suicide. What's the problem here? How does that relate to the forum?

And you criticise that we don't protect vulnerable people enough. Well, luckily I already addressed that talking point in a previous thread. Being vulnerable doesn't mean you are unable to make rational decisions, see this study:

I have to reject your entire premise based on that scientific study. I think vulnerable people have a right to individual autonomy, so they also have right to make decisions they consider appropiate for the current situation. We both know protecting "vulnerabel people" is a scape goat to go after all people who are struggling, it's a deeply regressive notion, it's an extension of the "think of the children"-fallacy and it comes from a social-conservative interpretion of liberty. I don't even know why you bring up that topic in the first place, it's not a topic specific to this forum, the question if vulnerable people should roam the internet freely without any protections is a conversation we should have when we talk about safety on the internet in general and if it's okay to infringe on the individual autonomy of adults in certain situations. But as I said, I reject your premise and the study I've linked seems to agree with me.

You're also implying that a distressed mental state is only temporary but how do you know? We had member in this forum who experience strong depression and suicidality for years, myself included by the way. What's the point of that talking point? We simply don't know if someone can recover from their struggle. I know a lot of people can't. Are we just gonna throw them under the bus and prolong their life indefinitely even when they scream and yell for relief? Is that a compassionate position?

As I said, you shouldn't pretend to talk for suicidal people. You don't. You have no idea about the subject matter and you should have sticked to music.
How do you even know if people who register in this community don't have the mental capacity to use this forum? It's just an assumption, nothing else. I think people who specifically seek out the content of this forum know what they want. And most people here don't sound like they're in some kind of episode as you suggest. The vast majority of members can describe very well why they are here. If you just spent a little bit of time here instead of being a judgemental dork, you would realize that we have plenty of members who have been struggling for years without relief. And you're essentially sitting on your chair, probably not knowing what it means to suffer, and you scream you want more, you want more? More of what? More suffering? And you think that's the compassionate position?

Chapter five. Instruction threads and the "marketplace"
[responding to "the instructions thread", "the marketplace"]

You're implying we work with Exit. It's a conspiracy theory. The forum doesn't make any profit, period. Your claim that this forum is illegal in most countries is therefore incorrect. Nobody is allowed to sell anything on the forum. If we find out, we take action. Your claim that the forum works as a marketplace is therefore false as well. You shouldn't listen so much to Kelli. She doesn't understand anything and she is simply spreading misinformation to make the forum look twice as bad. But I'll talk about her later.

Not a good look, Tantacrul. The website isn't illegal, that's why we're still here. There have been countless attempts to deplatform us, don't worry. Shout as much as you want.

Chapter six. Bobby C
[responding to "assisting those below 18"]

You claim that we knew who Bobby C was. We don't. It's as simple as that. It's all just really a fallacy. He was a member of your community too, right? So I could ask, hey why didn't this guy feel comfortable enough to open up in your server if you're such a great guy? I could play the same blame game but that doesn't really bring us anywhere. We can all point the fingers all day long and pretend this forum the only factor when it comes to someones decision to make a tragic choice. That's not the case and you know that. I'm just curious, why did you start caring about that guy when it was too late? Do you even care or is this video just an attempt to virtue signal what a great person you are? Your choice.

Chapter seven. Responsible reporting

Right at the very start, (at the 4 minute mark) Tantacrul claims that he wants to follow guidelines on media reporting about suicide and that's why he claims he doesn't want to mention the name of the website. But there is a just a problem. He already liked and followed several people on Twitter who have the name of the website in their bio. So it's unavoidable that his community will find its way to this forum.

View attachment 103733

If someone from his audience wants to dig a little bit deeper into the forum that's mentioned in his video, it's not gonna be very difficult to find it, thanks to him following people who use social media to spread awareness about this community. So let's make one thing clear. He intentionally exposes his audience to this forum, I consider this a little bit hypocritical. Just to make clear who acts responsible in this situation. And here is the thing, based on the screenshots you've included in your video, people will find this forum. What do you think happened every time when a news outlet covered the existence of this forum? It increased our member count.

It was a big mistake to talk about this forum because as I'm writing this thread, just a few hours after you published your video, we already had thousands of guests. The registration queue spiked, depressed people from your community want to join our forum. I'm asking you right now, given you think this is a very bad place: can you live with the guilt, when your audience makes accounts in this forum, a place that's apparently so bad, it needs political legislation to be taken down?

View attachment 103740

"Everyone's got their priority I suppose."

Your goal to follow media guidelines already backfired. And if you really think your video is gonna change anything, after the NYT already covered us on their front page, you're mistaken. I can defend my position, this community and the existence of this forum with a clear conscience. I've done this repeatedly in the past. And you know why I did that? Because I believe in something. I believe in individual autonomy and I believe in compassionate treatment of struggling people, so much, that I dedicate a large junk of my life for that cause. I don't spend a lot of time taking down what other people have built, I spent my time maintaining this community because I believe it's a good thing. And what are you doing? You're making a video concern trolling about this forum but I can assure you, if you read the messages I've read of people who were bedridden, haunted with so much physical pain they couldn't even leave their bed anymore, you'd think twice about posting such a video, throwing these people under the bus. No, if you have talked to these people, you would become an activist for compassionate treatment of these people and that includes the right to die. Because, here is the deal, for some people, the only relief from pain is death. That's why in my country we legalized assisted suicide to the fullest extend. The right to die is a neglected topic, almost every single country outlawed assisted suicide but there is a need for it, and that's why this forum has legitimacy and that's why people seek to participate in this forum. It's all about neglected needs. I live in one of the few countries that legalized assisted suicide. You don't. You don't want the forum to exist? Then get to work and make sure the people that write desperate messages to me don't have to use this forum to find peace in their last moments of their life.

Chapter eight. Who are the opponents of Sanctioned Suicide?
[responding to "taking action"]


A lot of your information is based on claims from people you call "grieving family members". The spearhead of these grieving parents is Kelli. She leads FixThe26 and is the most vocal opponent of this forum. I have thought about this for a long time but given that these people still successfully pretend to be victims, I have to break my silence about the behavior of these people. FixThe26 and the woman who is behind that organisation has a history of harassing, slandering, stalking, mocking and threatening members of our community. When she doxed Mahakali, a well-known member here, posting a picture of her on Twitter, it enraged the entire community. Let's take a look at her actions.

View attachment 103744

View attachment 103743

I have censored the image. Kelli didn't censor it. It was an attempt to silence a critic. Someone who has been a member in the forum. I talked to Mahakali and she confirmed that this instance here greatly contributed to her suffering. This is enough to push someone over the edge. She died one month later.

View attachment 103741

Here she encouraged physical violence on the past site owner, saying he should get publicly executed. Lynch mob. This is a woman that's highly unstable and she has every reason to spread misinformation and outright lies about this community. I know you didn't know that, Tantacrul. But maybe you should have done your research. You think I made it up? Just recently her account twitter.com/fixthe26 got suspended, finally.

View attachment 103745

She engaged in so much targeted harassement and abuse. There are more victims. And all the other family members you included in your video, I'm not gonna name them to protect their identity, have engaged in similiar behavior. Someone celebrated when a member of our community committed suicide after months of abuse and bullying she directed towards that member. They love to play with the identity, leak names. They play the intimidation games really well. Jeremy, an ex-member who has done an interview for Fixthe26, has stalked and harassed a trans member of our community. The list is long. But this thread isn't about these people, I don't play these games. This thread is about your inability to do proper research and take everything they say for granted to craft a narrative that's dangerous to say the least.

But here is the deal. These people aren't victims. They didn't take their own life. They're predators. And it's important to know that not one single "grieving parent" so far has condemned what Kelli has done under that username, the opposite is the case. They all engage in the same kind of harassement towards members of this community. Kelli has already created a new account, twitter.com/SanctionedStop. She is actively cirumcumventing her Twitter ban. So once again, these people weaponized grief. They have spread so many lies about this community and when I took leadership of this community, they did the same to me.

And look. I'm not gonna tell you what to think. I'm a free thinker, not a cultist as you claim. You can make up your own mind. But you should ask yourself, why are the most vocal opponents of this forum predators who harass and stalk individuals like that?
Read this thread if you want to know more about these people and their shady behavior.

Last but not least, these screenshot of me supposedly attacking these people doesn't display anything I have written. As I said, these people have every reason to spread misinformation. Every time someone takes time to criticise them on Twitter, they claim it's me. As if I don't have better things to do than create account after account after account. And if you knew what else they think to know about me, you would know that they don't know anything about me. They're not gonna like that, but that's the truth.

Chapter nine. Online safety bill
[responding to "taking action"]

I already wrote a thread about this and if you value freedom of speech and privacy, you shouldn't support it.

Chapter ten. The mental health system
[responding to "Please seek help. You are not alone."]


Last but not least you finally address the flaws in our system. I'm impressed. Your video takes 46 minutes to watch and you dedicate a few seconds when the video is about to end about the mental health system. Did you address coercision as a common practice? Human rights violations? No. You just claim there are a few problems and that's it, for example that many of us can't talk about being suicidal because we get shamed. But do you even understand the scope of the problem? It's not just about shaming people, which is one of the reasons people would rather come to this forum to discuss deeply personal issues, it's about coercision on a systemic level. Human rights violations. You can get locked up if you tell your doctor that you're suicidal. Talking about your suicidality is a game with fire, I have played it before and you can burn yourself really badly.

So when you claim that this forum or the community has cult-like behavior, referring to members of this community spreading negative sentiments towards mental health institutions or their parents, there is a fucking reason. First of all, I never did any of that, okay. I'm not aware that we are discouraging people from talking to important people in their lives about their problems. But we also need to look at the circumstances of most members in this community. I just recently launched a poll, asking members if their parents contributed to their suffering because my parents certainly played their role when it comes to my struggles. And according to that poll, around 75%(!) of all respondents said their parents contributed in some way to their struggles. So wouldn't it only be a natural theme of this community that members distrust their parents in some way? You don't think there is a very personal reason why so many of us are anti-natalists? And most importantly, many of us dealt with traumatic experiencs around involuntary hospitalisation, then again, wouldn't it be only natural to have concerns around that, especially when they neglect our individual autonomy and our bodily integrity, which are very fundamental concepts of any civilisation? I had close friends of mine describe very horrible and traumatic experiences, which happened as a result of involuntary hospitalisation, some even said they would rather die(!) then ever go back. Maybe you're simply arguing from a position of ignorance, Tantacrul. And maybe you said all of these things about this community because you don't really care about the well being of suicidal people, about the horrible human rights violations we have to endure in these institutions when we open up. Maybe that's the reason why all of that was so easy for you to say but you forget that the people you blame are the same people you claim to care so much about. Odd, isn't it. Again, if people in this community have a negative opinion of their family members or of their doctors, there is certainly a reason for that.

And about mental health, here is a tweet from someone who has recently committed suicide. She was a suicide prevention activist.


Maybe, the problem with mental health isn't just that you get shamed a little bit if you open up, you donk. Look here.


Maybe that gives you a hint? Come on.

And look, I also want to get one point across. No amount of therapy fixes physical or mental pain, political discrimination and financial problems. There are some problems you can't fix with the mental health system because we live in a society that doesn't really care about struggling people. You want some examples from a trans woman?


So you're essentially defending that system with that video and blaming us for speaking out. You're a part of the problem. I live in a country with a high rate of involuntary hospitalisation and it's not cool. You really need to be careful with your words if you value your freedom, especially when you're suicidal and talking to a doctor.

And let's make some things clear, before I end my response to your poorly researched video. You ended your video on this note:
"Every step closer can connect someone to life and the help they want, sometimes those steps are big but sometimes, all it takes is a smile"

That's literally how you decided to end that video, your most meaningful video ever - with an empty platitude. Do you think people in this community who are in so much pain that they literally want to end their lives want your smile? It just proves all over again that you have no idea about the suffering that's happening in this community. You're blind and you'll never be able to understand. Do you think that was a smart way to end the video? It wasn't. You're the perfect example of everything that's wrong with this society. You just showed us every problem with suicide, the way we handle it both as a societal problem but also as a human right. And it shows me you don't care.

My compassion for people doesn't end with suicide prevention. Suicide prevention without addressing systemic issues that causes suidiality in the first place is meaningless. There are so many problems in this world, repeating the suicide hotline every time you talk about suicide is merely a bandaid but it doesn't fix anything. I want more people to live happy and decent lives but those who want a way out, should have a way out. 99% of the world outlawed assisted suicide and you point the finger to that one forum that that breaks the stigma around the right to die?

I'm done with my response. I think I made my case. And I think I was very clear about my opinion. It took a lot of time to write that. Thanks for reading.


The youtuber Tantacrul, also known in this forum as @Jonels, finally recorded a video about this community, in which he slandered and insulted our members and I've decided to respond to him directly. He has been obsessed with this forum for the last few weeks, creating alt-account after alt-account to force his narrative on other people. A little reminder on how all of this started, back in November 2022.









These are some snippets of his posts before I kicked him from this community. I made pretty clear in that thread that he is allowed to use this forum and express criticism towards this forum as long as it's fair and in good faith. It's obvious from the posts above that this wasn't the case so I gave him the boot. As a result of that, he announced that he would make a video about this forum. It's pretty obvious that all of this is done solely because he wants to cause damage to this community because we didn't give him a platform for his immature behavior. And look, Tantacrul, you might not mention me and this forum by name but I'll mention you by name.

Chapter one. The real philosophy of this website
[responding to "How does the site work?", "The philosophy of this site"]

What's the purpose of this forum? Obviously Tantacrul isn't really interested in portraying this forum in a fair light, the video he made obviously doesn't have the intention to start a discussion about the moral implications of this forum with fair arguments. It's a direct response of us banning him for repeatedly(!) violating the rules back in November when he insulted the community and claimed we are reponsible for the death of another person. It's supposed to be another hitpiece, similiar to the one in December 2021 from the NYT.

I already explained this here but the purpose of this forum is to provide a safe space for suicidal or struggling people in general to discuss deeply personal topics without censorship. That's the most straight-forward answer. I would add that this forum also provides a space to talk about these subjects without a forced narrative and that's one of the reasons why this place is so appealing to so many people. If you talk about your problems with anyone out there, it always comes with restrictions. If you say a little bit too loud that you are suicidal, you have to expect severe backlash and in the worst case, involuntary hospitalisation. I'll get to this point later, this is gonna be a very detailed response to the accusations directed at this community.
Another aspects what makes this forum so appealing to so many people is the fact that you can talk about your suicidality in this place without the risk of intervention. Instead, you receive honest compassion and empathy because we're all mind-liked people. We all suffer together in this place and we're all respecting each others boundaries. And that's important because I didn't experience that out there, I simply didn't. And we talk to each other with an even ground, which isn't the case when you talk to a psychiatrist for example, there is a very different power dynamic in such conversations than here. And this aspect of the forum, which has caused so many people to stay, hasn't even been mentioned once. This forum saves lives, without a doubt.

And there are people in this community that have been suffering for years for various reasons and unlike Tantacruls narrative, this community doesn't just consist of young people who are impulsive and eager to engage in harmful behavior without much thought. Tantacrul doesn't understand that nobody becomes suicidal in a vacuum. We all have valid reasons to be in this forum. He pretends that people are lured into this community for no reason and then convinced to kill themselves just for fun. That's obviously not true, I don't even know where to start when I want to debunk this claim. But reading through the registration queue and the posts in this forum from new members makes very clear to me that most members who come to this place have a long experience with mental or physical health problems. And if someone comes to this place, they specifically seek out a forum with our philosophy, for a reason. Let's make one thing clear, people register in this place voluntarily because they have needs they want to address in this forum. And that's okay.

Here are some scientific articles digging into the nature of this forum and you will realize rather quickly that scientists have called this community pro-choice repeatedly in the past. These articles provide a very nuanced insight into this community and I appreciated the work that's been done.
Now, let's dig into the next claim.
You claim that this forum consists of 4 philosophies around the nine minute mark.
1. Nihilism.
2. Anti-natalism
3. Pro-mortalism
4. Libertarianism

While the first two philosophies are actually quite common in this forum, pro-mortalism and libertarianism isn't. There might be individual members who have libertarian or efilist beliefs but to say that these are dominant philosophies as you claim is absurd. There is a reason why nihilism and anti-natalism are common themes in this forum, it's because depressed people tend to have a more negative outlook on life compared to the rest of the population. It's quite natural actually and it's not really a surprise that this community tends to be more nihilistic compared to the average population. And anti-natalism, which is also more common in this community, is a belief that's shared in this forum because many of us didn't have the best parents and sometimes, our own parents contributed to our suffering. But I'll go into details about this later.

I don't know why you claim pro-mortalism is a dominant philosophy in this forum, it's not. Again, there might be individual posters who hold a pro-mortalist belief but that's in no way representative for the entire community. And that's really important because you use this framing over the course of the entire video to portray this forum as some kind of cult that pushes people into suicide because we supposedly gain satisfaction from doing so. That's a lie. Most members here recognise that ending your life is a serious act and shouldn't be done without severe introspection. But we regularly applaud and celebrate when members announce that they're leaving the forum because they have recovered. That's a good thing. Shouldn't that be obvious? Regarding libertarianism, you seem to confuse a fundamental basic human right like self-determination for libertarianism and I don't know why how you came to that conclusion. For me, it tells me a lot about your ignorance around this topic. The right to die is a human right and the ECHR has agreed with me on that topic repeatedly.

View attachment 103738
European Center for Law and Justice

View attachment 103737
The International Journal Of Human Rights

And that's the most shared value in this forum: self-determination, you being the only decision maker when it comes to matters that affect your welfare. And for many of us in this forum, we consider the right to die a human right. This has nothing to do with libertarianism as you claim but everything with individual autonomy, those are very fundamental values of every civilisation. And you live in the UK, right? So I wonder, why don't you value the right to die as a fundamental right? Do you disagree that people should have the right to make deeply personal decisions about their own life without interference of the state? That would be a regressive idea. Are you regressive, Tantacrul? Do you want to go back to times where women and men didn't have the legal right to make their own decisions concerning their welfare? I don't really think so.

But your attempt to slander this forum as some kind of obscure cult already failed. I believe in the right to die as a human right. I think every person who consider their life unworthy of living for various reasons, and the most common reason is chronic mental and physical pain, should have a right to exercise their right to die without interference of the state. And this sentiment has just recently been reinforced by the Federal Consitutional Court of Germany, making clear in their court ruling that the right to die isn't "restriced to serious or terminal diseases or specific phases of life or of a disease". It would contradict the fact that the right to die "is rooted in human dignity" and therefore does "NOT require any additional explanation or justification". The court also made clear that the right to die "also includes the right to seek and use voluntarily offered help to do so and that's by far the most progressive court ruling to this day, validating the right to die as a basic human right.
It seems to me that your entire video is based on a misunderstanding of the right to die. You consider the right to die a controversial topic and people fighting for ways to exercise said rights must be malicious actors according to your video but that's not really the case if you do some research about the ethical consensus in various countries regarding suicide and assisted suicide too. That's very important. You claim that sharing ressources and information regarding ways to exercise our right to die is bad and evil, I say it's an act of compassion. Let's end this here and come back to this topic later.

Chapter two. What are my beliefs
[responding to "who is responsible for setting up this site?"]

You dedicate a lot of your video talking about my beliefs without actually knowing why I'm a member in this forum.
I'm a trans woman who has suffered their entire life. My childhood was ruined by neglectful parents and I've had a terrible upbringing. As a result of that I experienced suicidal ideation very early in my life. Being trans teached me that we live in a society that doesn't really give a fuck about marginalised people. That's why I have become a member in this forum. During the years I have realized that the right to die is a deeply neglected right, in the majority of the world it's surpressed and you're not really allowed to talk openly about suicide. If you want to know more about the stigma around mental health, just talk to a few members of this forum and ask them why they are active in this forum.
I'm secular. I don't believe in any religion. And I consider the right to die when you're suffering so much that you can't take it any longer a compassionate and empathic position. I think people like you who fear monger about this forum and take valid criticism to the extreme are not acting in good faith. You claim this forum has anything to do with inceldom. If you did some research, you would know that inceldom isn't really a common theme in this forum. You will find so many different groups with different backgrounds in this community, we're actually quite diverse and people are here for very different reason. We're also very heterogenic when it comes to ideology. You claim we're a cult and that we all believe in the same thing. That's not really true. We disagree on so many topics. Some members are left-wing, some are right-wing, some are socially conservative and some are more liberal. I had so many political discussions with people who had a different opinion than me and that's okay. We don't really have any common goals in this forum. The only thing that truly connects us is the need for a place to talk about deeply personal topics without censorship and a forced narrative and the idea that we should have a right to make deeply decisions without intervention of a third party. And that's it.

Here is the deal. I've been suicidal my entire life. I'm not just an admin, I'm a member myself. I'm a human. And I'm trans. I know how it feels to be trapped in this place. I know how it feels to suffer. I know how it feels when nobody seems to understand you. I know how it feels when you can't open up to anybody because you fear judgemental reactions and involuntary hospitalisation when you just say the wrong words. And I know the dire need to find relief from pain. Do you, Jonels? You, who claims to speak for all the suicidal people out there, do you represent their interests and their needs? Really?

Chapter three. Are we a cult?
[responding to "Don't seek help", "A note about cults", "Malicious actors"]

You claim that this community is a cult, giving us three indicators that this is the case.

First, a cult has a "highly peculiar" alternative ideology, which runs contrary to mainstream - you claim that applies to us.
Second, a cult has "ridicilous hostility" towards mental health professionals and the idea of treatment.
Third, a cult is notorious for cutting people off from their support networks.

I mean, honestly, these are quite vague and I haven't seen a clear definition of a cult yet that would match the purpose of this forum. You could apply the first point to any community that whose ideals aren't mainstream yet and especially with the combination of the second or even the third point, I see a common theme. You know, I'm a trans woman. And there is a long history of the media misrepresenting who we are. And you're doing a similiar thing right now. I mean, let's look at some headlines, right?


There are prominent vocal right-wingers who use exactly the same points to go after trans people. They call us the LGBT cult, they claim we groom children.


It's exactly the same thing. If you apply some bad faith, you can make any movement look bad with the right framing. And that's you're doing right now. Congrats Tantacrul, you learned from the best. Take very vague descriptions of a cult and apply them without any nuance and consideration for context to the entire community and ooops, we look like the bad guys.

What do you know about me? Nothing. But you have no problem smearing me as a bad-faith actor, as someone who simply acts on bad intentions. I mean, that's a common theme, you know. I belong to many subcultures that have endured the same slander. I'm transgender, that's why I immediately knew where your narrative is coming from. Do you see how the media hounds us trans people? The way you talk about this community of struggling people comes from the same place of judgement. We're victims, not perpetrators. You're just a different color of judgement. This time you're not lashing out against trans people who supposedly groom vulnerable people, you're lashing out against suicidal people who supposedly do the same. Suicidal people who appreciate this forum, people who voluntarily seeked this community as a source of support. And don't they have a right to have a safe space without the forced narratives, the same bullshit you're pulling right now on suicidal people? Oh no, "we need to save them", right? We need to get the nanny state to take down this community, right? That's what you're doing right now but you're not speaking for anyone. You're only speaking for yourself and your language is bigotry.

Next, you you said this community is an echo chamber of negative thoughts and nihilistic view points and you claim to prove that with how many examples? 5 posts? 6 posts? Are these representative examples of the entire community? You mentioned "Cake123" who has several thousand posts but why are they representative of the entire community? You're cherry picking members who suit your narrative, we have members in this forum with even more posts who disagree with that particular member. I just want to make something clear. We have 1'700'000 posts in this forum and we have over 26'000 members and you pick a few anecdotal(!) cases, intentionally leaving out important context to paint a narrative I've already debunked repeatedly before, for example when I responded to the NYT article. So if you think debunking your video is gonna be difficult, you're mistaken, Tantarcul. As I just said, we have several thousand members who came to this place because it gave them something. Do you speak for them? You claim this forum has 10 million monthly visitors on average, doesn't that send a message to you, Tantacrul? Do you really speak for people who are struggling or are you just merely pretending to be talking for them? Maybe that's the problem. Let's make one thing clear, you are talking about suicidal people and not(!) for them. You haven't really engaged with this community in good faith and maybe that's the reason why people rather come to us? Who would want to seek support from someone who slanders 25k suicidal people, people who are literally suffering so much, as a cult of predators? That's so telling. It's always the same with you people, it's only judgemental toxic slander. Every single time and you always think it's so brilliant...

There are several scientific studies researching this forum and none of them describe this community as pro-mortalist. We might have individual members, vocal members who subscribe to an efilist worldview but then again, this is a forum for adults so shouldn't they have a right to speak their mind? That's the point of this forum, right? Being able to speak your mind in a safe space, right? That's absolutely the contrary of a cult. And all the active members who clearly disagree with me on various subjects prove that point.

Next, you take one case of someone who has been convicted and sentenced for doing things to other people outside of this forum and imply that we are in some way responsible for this. Again, predators exist in every community.


They're on Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, they are on Twitch, they have been on MySpace - pretending that this has anything to do with this forum just proves you're ignorant about the nature of the internet. Yeah, this forum does attract a few bad apples due to the nature of this forum but keep in mind, you have have one(!) conviction for a forum with 25k members that has existed for over 5 years and the conviction itself has nothing to do with the purpose of this community. This guy deserved to get punished for violating other people for sexual pleasure. I have no problem saying that. But are predators overrepresented in this community or are you just framing this forum in a particularly bad way with one singular case of a crime? Again, this community has 25k members. How representative is your little anecdotal case then? Not very representative at all, am I right?
Yeah, that's what I thought. Of course a community like ours that has vulnerable people (which doesn't translate to "no individual autonomy" btw) attracts bad apples. If we have reasonable doubts about someones intention, we reserve our right to boot them from the community. But you can't reads minds, that's why you're assuming I'm a bad-faith actor, and I can't read minds, that's why I don't know the intentions of people who come to this community. It's as simple as that. Of course I could ban anyone I consider dubious but who wants to be in a community where I single-handedly rule who is allowed to be here and who isnt?

Chapter four. Protecting the vulnerable
[responding to "protecting the vulnerable"]

You bring up the fact that people need to agree that they are of sound mind when they use the website. You quote a professor who said "People... take their own lives when they can see no end to their pain, when they feel trapped by it and that there is no way. Like physical pain, there is only so much mental pain that we can withstand and, when we reach our limit, something has to give. Sadly, for too many people, it is life that gives".

What an absurd quote. First of all, it implies that any kind of pain is temporary and that relief from pain is never an option if it results in someone's decision to exercise their right to die. I think your quote doesn't actually delegitimize the forum, it legitimizes it, making clear that some pain is so difficult to endure that providing relief in the form of death is an act of mercy. That's the key philosophy behind assisted suicide. What's the problem here? How does that relate to the forum?

And you criticise that we don't protect vulnerable people enough. Well, luckily I already addressed that talking point in a previous thread. Being vulnerable doesn't mean you are unable to make rational decisions, see this study:

I have to reject your entire premise based on that scientific study. I think vulnerable people have a right to individual autonomy, so they also have right to make decisions they consider appropiate for the current situation. We both know protecting "vulnerabel people" is a scape goat to go after all people who are struggling, it's a deeply regressive notion, it's an extension of the "think of the children"-fallacy and it comes from a social-conservative interpretion of liberty. I don't even know why you bring up that topic in the first place, it's not a topic specific to this forum, the question if vulnerable people should roam the internet freely without any protections is a conversation we should have when we talk about safety on the internet in general and if it's okay to infringe on the individual autonomy of adults in certain situations. But as I said, I reject your premise and the study I've linked seems to agree with me.

You're also implying that a distressed mental state is only temporary but how do you know? We had member in this forum who experience strong depression and suicidality for years, myself included by the way. What's the point of that talking point? We simply don't know if someone can recover from their struggle. I know a lot of people can't. Are we just gonna throw them under the bus and prolong their life indefinitely even when they scream and yell for relief? Is that a compassionate position?

As I said, you shouldn't pretend to talk for suicidal people. You don't. You have no idea about the subject matter and you should have sticked to music.
How do you even know if people who register in this community don't have the mental capacity to use this forum? It's just an assumption, nothing else. I think people who specifically seek out the content of this forum know what they want. And most people here don't sound like they're in some kind of episode as you suggest. The vast majority of members can describe very well why they are here. If you just spent a little bit of time here instead of being a judgemental dork, you would realize that we have plenty of members who have been struggling for years without relief. And you're essentially sitting on your chair, probably not knowing what it means to suffer, and you scream you want more, you want more? More of what? More suffering? And you think that's the compassionate position?

Chapter five. Instruction threads and the "marketplace"
[responding to "the instructions thread", "the marketplace"]

You're implying we work with Exit. It's a conspiracy theory. The forum doesn't make any profit, period. Your claim that this forum is illegal in most countries is therefore incorrect. Nobody is allowed to sell anything on the forum. If we find out, we take action. Your claim that the forum works as a marketplace is therefore false as well. You shouldn't listen so much to Kelli. She doesn't understand anything and she is simply spreading misinformation to make the forum look twice as bad. But I'll talk about her later.

Not a good look, Tantacrul. The website isn't illegal, that's why we're still here. There have been countless attempts to deplatform us, don't worry. Shout as much as you want.

Chapter six. Bobby C
[responding to "assisting those below 18"]

You claim that we knew who Bobby C was. We don't. It's as simple as that. It's all just really a fallacy. He was a member of your community too, right? So I could ask, hey why didn't this guy feel comfortable enough to open up in your server if you're such a great guy? I could play the same blame game but that doesn't really bring us anywhere. We can all point the fingers all day long and pretend this forum the only factor when it comes to someones decision to make a tragic choice. That's not the case and you know that. I'm just curious, why did you start caring about that guy when it was too late? Do you even care or is this video just an attempt to virtue signal what a great person you are? Your choice.

Chapter seven. Responsible reporting

Right at the very start, (at the 4 minute mark) Tantacrul claims that he wants to follow guidelines on media reporting about suicide and that's why he claims he doesn't want to mention the name of the website. But there is a just a problem. He already liked and followed several people on Twitter who have the name of the website in their bio. So it's unavoidable that his community will find its way to this forum.

View attachment 103733

If someone from his audience wants to dig a little bit deeper into the forum that's mentioned in his video, it's not gonna be very difficult to find it, thanks to him following people who use social media to spread awareness about this community. So let's make one thing clear. He intentionally exposes his audience to this forum, I consider this a little bit hypocritical. Just to make clear who acts responsible in this situation. And here is the thing, based on the screenshots you've included in your video, people will find this forum. What do you think happened every time when a news outlet covered the existence of this forum? It increased our member count.

It was a big mistake to talk about this forum because as I'm writing this thread, just a few hours after you published your video, we already had thousands of guests. The registration queue spiked, depressed people from your community want to join our forum. I'm asking you right now, given you think this is a very bad place: can you live with the guilt, when your audience makes accounts in this forum, a place that's apparently so bad, it needs political legislation to be taken down?

View attachment 103740

"Everyone's got their priority I suppose."

Your goal to follow media guidelines already backfired. And if you really think your video is gonna change anything, after the NYT already covered us on their front page, you're mistaken. I can defend my position, this community and the existence of this forum with a clear conscience. I've done this repeatedly in the past. And you know why I did that? Because I believe in something. I believe in individual autonomy and I believe in compassionate treatment of struggling people, so much, that I dedicate a large junk of my life for that cause. I don't spend a lot of time taking down what other people have built, I spent my time maintaining this community because I believe it's a good thing. And what are you doing? You're making a video concern trolling about this forum but I can assure you, if you read the messages I've read of people who were bedridden, haunted with so much physical pain they couldn't even leave their bed anymore, you'd think twice about posting such a video, throwing these people under the bus. No, if you have talked to these people, you would become an activist for compassionate treatment of these people and that includes the right to die. Because, here is the deal, for some people, the only relief from pain is death. That's why in my country we legalized assisted suicide to the fullest extend. The right to die is a neglected topic, almost every single country outlawed assisted suicide but there is a need for it, and that's why this forum has legitimacy and that's why people seek to participate in this forum. It's all about neglected needs. I live in one of the few countries that legalized assisted suicide. You don't. You don't want the forum to exist? Then get to work and make sure the people that write desperate messages to me don't have to use this forum to find peace in their last moments of their life.

Chapter eight. Who are the opponents of Sanctioned Suicide?
[responding to "taking action"]


A lot of your information is based on claims from people you call "grieving family members". The spearhead of these grieving parents is Kelli. She leads FixThe26 and is the most vocal opponent of this forum. I have thought about this for a long time but given that these people still successfully pretend to be victims, I have to break my silence about the behavior of these people. FixThe26 and the woman who is behind that organisation has a history of harassing, slandering, stalking, mocking and threatening members of our community. When she doxed Mahakali, a well-known member here, posting a picture of her on Twitter, it enraged the entire community. Let's take a look at her actions.

View attachment 103744

View attachment 103743

I have censored the image. Kelli didn't censor it. It was an attempt to silence a critic. Someone who has been a member in the forum. I talked to Mahakali and she confirmed that this instance here greatly contributed to her suffering. This is enough to push someone over the edge. She died one month later.

View attachment 103741

Here she encouraged physical violence on the past site owner, saying he should get publicly executed. Lynch mob. This is a woman that's highly unstable and she has every reason to spread misinformation and outright lies about this community. I know you didn't know that, Tantacrul. But maybe you should have done your research. You think I made it up? Just recently her account twitter.com/fixthe26 got suspended, finally.

View attachment 103745

She engaged in so much targeted harassement and abuse. There are more victims. And all the other family members you included in your video, I'm not gonna name them to protect their identity, have engaged in similiar behavior. Someone celebrated when a member of our community committed suicide after months of abuse and bullying she directed towards that member. They love to play with the identity, leak names. They play the intimidation games really well. Jeremy, an ex-member who has done an interview for Fixthe26, has stalked and harassed a trans member of our community. The list is long. But this thread isn't about these people, I don't play these games. This thread is about your inability to do proper research and take everything they say for granted to craft a narrative that's dangerous to say the least.

But here is the deal. These people aren't victims. They didn't take their own life. They're predators. And it's important to know that not one single "grieving parent" so far has condemned what Kelli has done under that username, the opposite is the case. They all engage in the same kind of harassement towards members of this community. Kelli has already created a new account, twitter.com/SanctionedStop. She is actively cirumcumventing her Twitter ban. So once again, these people weaponized grief. They have spread so many lies about this community and when I took leadership of this community, they did the same to me.

And look. I'm not gonna tell you what to think. I'm a free thinker, not a cultist as you claim. You can make up your own mind. But you should ask yourself, why are the most vocal opponents of this forum predators who harass and stalk individuals like that?
Read this thread if you want to know more about these people and their shady behavior.

Last but not least, these screenshot of me supposedly attacking these people doesn't display anything I have written. As I said, these people have every reason to spread misinformation. Every time someone takes time to criticise them on Twitter, they claim it's me. As if I don't have better things to do than create account after account after account. And if you knew what else they think to know about me, you would know that they don't know anything about me. They're not gonna like that, but that's the truth.

Chapter nine. Online safety bill
[responding to "taking action"]

I already wrote a thread about this and if you value freedom of speech and privacy, you shouldn't support it.

Chapter ten. The mental health system
[responding to "Please seek help. You are not alone."]


Last but not least you finally address the flaws in our system. I'm impressed. Your video takes 46 minutes to watch and you dedicate a few seconds when the video is about to end about the mental health system. Did you address coercision as a common practice? Human rights violations? No. You just claim there are a few problems and that's it, for example that many of us can't talk about being suicidal because we get shamed. But do you even understand the scope of the problem? It's not just about shaming people, which is one of the reasons people would rather come to this forum to discuss deeply personal issues, it's about coercision on a systemic level. Human rights violations. You can get locked up if you tell your doctor that you're suicidal. Talking about your suicidality is a game with fire, I have played it before and you can burn yourself really badly.

So when you claim that this forum or the community has cult-like behavior, referring to members of this community spreading negative sentiments towards mental health institutions or their parents, there is a fucking reason. First of all, I never did any of that, okay. I'm not aware that we are discouraging people from talking to important people in their lives about their problems. But we also need to look at the circumstances of most members in this community. I just recently launched a poll, asking members if their parents contributed to their suffering because my parents certainly played their role when it comes to my struggles. And according to that poll, around 75%(!) of all respondents said their parents contributed in some way to their struggles. So wouldn't it only be a natural theme of this community that members distrust their parents in some way? You don't think there is a very personal reason why so many of us are anti-natalists? And most importantly, many of us dealt with traumatic experiencs around involuntary hospitalisation, then again, wouldn't it be only natural to have concerns around that, especially when they neglect our individual autonomy and our bodily integrity, which are very fundamental concepts of any civilisation? I had close friends of mine describe very horrible and traumatic experiences, which happened as a result of involuntary hospitalisation, some even said they would rather die(!) then ever go back. Maybe you're simply arguing from a position of ignorance, Tantacrul. And maybe you said all of these things about this community because you don't really care about the well being of suicidal people, about the horrible human rights violations we have to endure in these institutions when we open up. Maybe that's the reason why all of that was so easy for you to say but you forget that the people you blame are the same people you claim to care so much about. Odd, isn't it. Again, if people in this community have a negative opinion of their family members or of their doctors, there is certainly a reason for that.

And about mental health, here is a tweet from someone who has recently committed suicide. She was a suicide prevention activist.


Maybe, the problem with mental health isn't just that you get shamed a little bit if you open up, you donk. Look here.


Maybe that gives you a hint? Come on.

And look, I also want to get one point across. No amount of therapy fixes physical or mental pain, political discrimination and financial problems. There are some problems you can't fix with the mental health system because we live in a society that doesn't really care about struggling people. You want some examples from a trans woman?


So you're essentially defending that system with that video and blaming us for speaking out. You're a part of the problem. I live in a country with a high rate of involuntary hospitalisation and it's not cool. You really need to be careful with your words if you value your freedom, especially when you're suicidal and talking to a doctor.

And let's make some things clear, before I end my response to your poorly researched video. You ended your video on this note:
"Every step closer can connect someone to life and the help they want, sometimes those steps are big but sometimes, all it takes is a smile"

That's literally how you decided to end that video, your most meaningful video ever - with an empty platitude. Do you think people in this community who are in so much pain that they literally want to end their lives want your smile? It just proves all over again that you have no idea about the suffering that's happening in this community. You're blind and you'll never be able to understand. Do you think that was a smart way to end the video? It wasn't. You're the perfect example of everything that's wrong with this society. You just showed us every problem with suicide, the way we handle it both as a societal problem but also as a human right. And it shows me you don't care.

My compassion for people doesn't end with suicide prevention. Suicide prevention without addressing systemic issues that causes suidiality in the first place is meaningless. There are so many problems in this world, repeating the suicide hotline every time you talk about suicide is merely a bandaid but it doesn't fix anything. I want more people to live happy and decent lives but those who want a way out, should have a way out. 99% of the world outlawed assisted suicide and you point the finger to that one forum that that breaks the stigma around the right to die?

I'm done with my response. I think I made my case. And I think I was very clear about my opinion. It took a lot of time to write that. Thanks for reading.

If I could give this post a standing ovation I would; I am in complete agreement with the points made here. The world is filled with people from all walks of life, who experience that life in an endless variety of ways. For someone to claim/act like they 'know' about suicidality and all the nuances/issues/factors that are connected to suicide and suicidal tendencies, while they themselves are personally unfamiliar with any of it- to do so is incredibly ignorant of him. Some people like to make things so complicated; I feel like basic things like compassion, empathy, and a genuine desire for yourself and others to live happily- they seem to go a lot farther than a lot of the social media posts I've seen people do, especially ones like his.

I hope a lot of people who come here from that video read this post 💜
 
koro

koro

この夢は本当に嫌います。
Nov 11, 2023
66
I wish more people would see and actually read this.
It does explain multiple reasons why I hate *most* humans, because they're ignorant, think only for themselves and when they read something like this they just wouldn't want to believe it, no matter how true it is, but rather stick with what *they* think is right, leading to standing in the way of people with hard lives more than they already do.
Seeing how people donate money and say "Raise Awareness" to videos like Tantacrul's makes me think that *they* are rather influenced by other's opinions instead of their own and they seem probably more likely to form a "cult" than we would.
Also I'm sorry if I maybe wrote a bit weird or something, but talking my own opinion or talking in general feels quite difficult for me thanks to the very same people who raised me to have trouble doing so (sigh.. if so many people were at least a *little* less egoistic).
+ it is quite late where I live rn and I'm veery tired so.. good night to whoever reads this :)
 
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U

username8888

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Oct 11, 2023
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The youtuber Tantacrul, also known in this forum as @Jonels, finally recorded a video about this community, in which he slandered and insulted our members and I've decided to respond to him directly. He has been obsessed with this forum for the last few weeks, creating alt-account after alt-account to force his narrative on other people. A little reminder on how all of this started, back in November 2022.









These are some snippets of his posts before I kicked him from this community. I made pretty clear in that thread that he is allowed to use this forum and express criticism towards this forum as long as it's fair and in good faith. It's obvious from the posts above that this wasn't the case so I gave him the boot. As a result of that, he announced that he would make a video about this forum. It's pretty obvious that all of this is done solely because he wants to cause damage to this community because we didn't give him a platform for his immature behavior. And look, Tantacrul, you might not mention me and this forum by name but I'll mention you by name.

Chapter one. The real philosophy of this website
[responding to "How does the site work?", "The philosophy of this site"]

What's the purpose of this forum? Obviously Tantacrul isn't really interested in portraying this forum in a fair light, the video he made obviously doesn't have the intention to start a discussion about the moral implications of this forum with fair arguments. It's a direct response of us banning him for repeatedly(!) violating the rules back in November when he insulted the community and claimed we are reponsible for the death of another person. It's supposed to be another hitpiece, similiar to the one in December 2021 from the NYT.

I already explained this here but the purpose of this forum is to provide a safe space for suicidal or struggling people in general to discuss deeply personal topics without censorship. That's the most straight-forward answer. I would add that this forum also provides a space to talk about these subjects without a forced narrative and that's one of the reasons why this place is so appealing to so many people. If you talk about your problems with anyone out there, it always comes with restrictions. If you say a little bit too loud that you are suicidal, you have to expect severe backlash and in the worst case, involuntary hospitalisation. I'll get to this point later, this is gonna be a very detailed response to the accusations directed at this community.
Another aspects what makes this forum so appealing to so many people is the fact that you can talk about your suicidality in this place without the risk of intervention. Instead, you receive honest compassion and empathy because we're all mind-liked people. We all suffer together in this place and we're all respecting each others boundaries. And that's important because I didn't experience that out there, I simply didn't. And we talk to each other with an even ground, which isn't the case when you talk to a psychiatrist for example, there is a very different power dynamic in such conversations than here. And this aspect of the forum, which has caused so many people to stay, hasn't even been mentioned once. This forum saves lives, without a doubt.

And there are people in this community that have been suffering for years for various reasons and unlike Tantacruls narrative, this community doesn't just consist of young people who are impulsive and eager to engage in harmful behavior without much thought. Tantacrul doesn't understand that nobody becomes suicidal in a vacuum. We all have valid reasons to be in this forum. He pretends that people are lured into this community for no reason and then convinced to kill themselves just for fun. That's obviously not true, I don't even know where to start when I want to debunk this claim. But reading through the registration queue and the posts in this forum from new members makes very clear to me that most members who come to this place have a long experience with mental or physical health problems. And if someone comes to this place, they specifically seek out a forum with our philosophy, for a reason. Let's make one thing clear, people register in this place voluntarily because they have needs they want to address in this forum. And that's okay.

Here are some scientific articles digging into the nature of this forum and you will realize rather quickly that scientists have called this community pro-choice repeatedly in the past. These articles provide a very nuanced insight into this community and I appreciated the work that's been done.
Now, let's dig into the next claim.
You claim that this forum consists of 4 philosophies around the nine minute mark.
1. Nihilism.
2. Anti-natalism
3. Pro-mortalism
4. Libertarianism

While the first two philosophies are actually quite common in this forum, pro-mortalism and libertarianism isn't. There might be individual members who have libertarian or efilist beliefs but to say that these are dominant philosophies as you claim is absurd. There is a reason why nihilism and anti-natalism are common themes in this forum, it's because depressed people tend to have a more negative outlook on life compared to the rest of the population. It's quite natural actually and it's not really a surprise that this community tends to be more nihilistic compared to the average population. And anti-natalism, which is also more common in this community, is a belief that's shared in this forum because many of us didn't have the best parents and sometimes, our own parents contributed to our suffering. But I'll go into details about this later.

I don't know why you claim pro-mortalism is a dominant philosophy in this forum, it's not. Again, there might be individual posters who hold a pro-mortalist belief but that's in no way representative for the entire community. And that's really important because you use this framing over the course of the entire video to portray this forum as some kind of cult that pushes people into suicide because we supposedly gain satisfaction from doing so. That's a lie. Most members here recognise that ending your life is a serious act and shouldn't be done without severe introspection. But we regularly applaud and celebrate when members announce that they're leaving the forum because they have recovered. That's a good thing. Shouldn't that be obvious? Regarding libertarianism, you seem to confuse a fundamental basic human right like self-determination for libertarianism and I don't know why how you came to that conclusion. For me, it tells me a lot about your ignorance around this topic. The right to die is a human right and the ECHR has agreed with me on that topic repeatedly.

View attachment 103738
European Center for Law and Justice

View attachment 103737
The International Journal Of Human Rights

And that's the most shared value in this forum: self-determination, you being the only decision maker when it comes to matters that affect your welfare. And for many of us in this forum, we consider the right to die a human right. This has nothing to do with libertarianism as you claim but everything with individual autonomy, those are very fundamental values of every civilisation. And you live in the UK, right? So I wonder, why don't you value the right to die as a fundamental right? Do you disagree that people should have the right to make deeply personal decisions about their own life without interference of the state? That would be a regressive idea. Are you regressive, Tantacrul? Do you want to go back to times where women and men didn't have the legal right to make their own decisions concerning their welfare? I don't really think so.

But your attempt to slander this forum as some kind of obscure cult already failed. I believe in the right to die as a human right. I think every person who consider their life unworthy of living for various reasons, and the most common reason is chronic mental and physical pain, should have a right to exercise their right to die without interference of the state. And this sentiment has just recently been reinforced by the Federal Consitutional Court of Germany, making clear in their court ruling that the right to die isn't "restriced to serious or terminal diseases or specific phases of life or of a disease". It would contradict the fact that the right to die "is rooted in human dignity" and therefore does "NOT require any additional explanation or justification". The court also made clear that the right to die "also includes the right to seek and use voluntarily offered help to do so and that's by far the most progressive court ruling to this day, validating the right to die as a basic human right.
It seems to me that your entire video is based on a misunderstanding of the right to die. You consider the right to die a controversial topic and people fighting for ways to exercise said rights must be malicious actors according to your video but that's not really the case if you do some research about the ethical consensus in various countries regarding suicide and assisted suicide too. That's very important. You claim that sharing ressources and information regarding ways to exercise our right to die is bad and evil, I say it's an act of compassion. Let's end this here and come back to this topic later.

Chapter two. What are my beliefs
[responding to "who is responsible for setting up this site?"]

You dedicate a lot of your video talking about my beliefs without actually knowing why I'm a member in this forum.
I'm a trans woman who has suffered their entire life. My childhood was ruined by neglectful parents and I've had a terrible upbringing. As a result of that I experienced suicidal ideation very early in my life. Being trans teached me that we live in a society that doesn't really give a fuck about marginalised people. That's why I have become a member in this forum. During the years I have realized that the right to die is a deeply neglected right, in the majority of the world it's surpressed and you're not really allowed to talk openly about suicide. If you want to know more about the stigma around mental health, just talk to a few members of this forum and ask them why they are active in this forum.
I'm secular. I don't believe in any religion. And I consider the right to die when you're suffering so much that you can't take it any longer a compassionate and empathic position. I think people like you who fear monger about this forum and take valid criticism to the extreme are not acting in good faith. You claim this forum has anything to do with inceldom. If you did some research, you would know that inceldom isn't really a common theme in this forum. You will find so many different groups with different backgrounds in this community, we're actually quite diverse and people are here for very different reason. We're also very heterogenic when it comes to ideology. You claim we're a cult and that we all believe in the same thing. That's not really true. We disagree on so many topics. Some members are left-wing, some are right-wing, some are socially conservative and some are more liberal. I had so many political discussions with people who had a different opinion than me and that's okay. We don't really have any common goals in this forum. The only thing that truly connects us is the need for a place to talk about deeply personal topics without censorship and a forced narrative and the idea that we should have a right to make deeply decisions without intervention of a third party. And that's it.

Here is the deal. I've been suicidal my entire life. I'm not just an admin, I'm a member myself. I'm a human. And I'm trans. I know how it feels to be trapped in this place. I know how it feels to suffer. I know how it feels when nobody seems to understand you. I know how it feels when you can't open up to anybody because you fear judgemental reactions and involuntary hospitalisation when you just say the wrong words. And I know the dire need to find relief from pain. Do you, Jonels? You, who claims to speak for all the suicidal people out there, do you represent their interests and their needs? Really?

Chapter three. Are we a cult?
[responding to "Don't seek help", "A note about cults", "Malicious actors"]

You claim that this community is a cult, giving us three indicators that this is the case.

First, a cult has a "highly peculiar" alternative ideology, which runs contrary to mainstream - you claim that applies to us.
Second, a cult has "ridicilous hostility" towards mental health professionals and the idea of treatment.
Third, a cult is notorious for cutting people off from their support networks.

I mean, honestly, these are quite vague and I haven't seen a clear definition of a cult yet that would match the purpose of this forum. You could apply the first point to any community that whose ideals aren't mainstream yet and especially with the combination of the second or even the third point, I see a common theme. You know, I'm a trans woman. And there is a long history of the media misrepresenting who we are. And you're doing a similiar thing right now. I mean, let's look at some headlines, right?


There are prominent vocal right-wingers who use exactly the same points to go after trans people. They call us the LGBT cult, they claim we groom children.


It's exactly the same thing. If you apply some bad faith, you can make any movement look bad with the right framing. And that's you're doing right now. Congrats Tantacrul, you learned from the best. Take very vague descriptions of a cult and apply them without any nuance and consideration for context to the entire community and ooops, we look like the bad guys.

What do you know about me? Nothing. But you have no problem smearing me as a bad-faith actor, as someone who simply acts on bad intentions. I mean, that's a common theme, you know. I belong to many subcultures that have endured the same slander. I'm transgender, that's why I immediately knew where your narrative is coming from. Do you see how the media hounds us trans people? The way you talk about this community of struggling people comes from the same place of judgement. We're victims, not perpetrators. You're just a different color of judgement. This time you're not lashing out against trans people who supposedly groom vulnerable people, you're lashing out against suicidal people who supposedly do the same. Suicidal people who appreciate this forum, people who voluntarily seeked this community as a source of support. And don't they have a right to have a safe space without the forced narratives, the same bullshit you're pulling right now on suicidal people? Oh no, "we need to save them", right? We need to get the nanny state to take down this community, right? That's what you're doing right now but you're not speaking for anyone. You're only speaking for yourself and your language is bigotry.

Next, you you said this community is an echo chamber of negative thoughts and nihilistic view points and you claim to prove that with how many examples? 5 posts? 6 posts? Are these representative examples of the entire community? You mentioned "Cake123" who has several thousand posts but why are they representative of the entire community? You're cherry picking members who suit your narrative, we have members in this forum with even more posts who disagree with that particular member. I just want to make something clear. We have 1'700'000 posts in this forum and we have over 26'000 members and you pick a few anecdotal(!) cases, intentionally leaving out important context to paint a narrative I've already debunked repeatedly before, for example when I responded to the NYT article. So if you think debunking your video is gonna be difficult, you're mistaken, Tantarcul. As I just said, we have several thousand members who came to this place because it gave them something. Do you speak for them? You claim this forum has 10 million monthly visitors on average, doesn't that send a message to you, Tantacrul? Do you really speak for people who are struggling or are you just merely pretending to be talking for them? Maybe that's the problem. Let's make one thing clear, you are talking about suicidal people and not(!) for them. You haven't really engaged with this community in good faith and maybe that's the reason why people rather come to us? Who would want to seek support from someone who slanders 25k suicidal people, people who are literally suffering so much, as a cult of predators? That's so telling. It's always the same with you people, it's only judgemental toxic slander. Every single time and you always think it's so brilliant...

There are several scientific studies researching this forum and none of them describe this community as pro-mortalist. We might have individual members, vocal members who subscribe to an efilist worldview but then again, this is a forum for adults so shouldn't they have a right to speak their mind? That's the point of this forum, right? Being able to speak your mind in a safe space, right? That's absolutely the contrary of a cult. And all the active members who clearly disagree with me on various subjects prove that point.

Next, you take one case of someone who has been convicted and sentenced for doing things to other people outside of this forum and imply that we are in some way responsible for this. Again, predators exist in every community.


They're on Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, they are on Twitch, they have been on MySpace - pretending that this has anything to do with this forum just proves you're ignorant about the nature of the internet. Yeah, this forum does attract a few bad apples due to the nature of this forum but keep in mind, you have have one(!) conviction for a forum with 25k members that has existed for over 5 years and the conviction itself has nothing to do with the purpose of this community. This guy deserved to get punished for violating other people for sexual pleasure. I have no problem saying that. But are predators overrepresented in this community or are you just framing this forum in a particularly bad way with one singular case of a crime? Again, this community has 25k members. How representative is your little anecdotal case then? Not very representative at all, am I right?
Yeah, that's what I thought. Of course a community like ours that has vulnerable people (which doesn't translate to "no individual autonomy" btw) attracts bad apples. If we have reasonable doubts about someones intention, we reserve our right to boot them from the community. But you can't reads minds, that's why you're assuming I'm a bad-faith actor, and I can't read minds, that's why I don't know the intentions of people who come to this community. It's as simple as that. Of course I could ban anyone I consider dubious but who wants to be in a community where I single-handedly rule who is allowed to be here and who isnt?

Chapter four. Protecting the vulnerable
[responding to "protecting the vulnerable"]

You bring up the fact that people need to agree that they are of sound mind when they use the website. You quote a professor who said "People... take their own lives when they can see no end to their pain, when they feel trapped by it and that there is no way. Like physical pain, there is only so much mental pain that we can withstand and, when we reach our limit, something has to give. Sadly, for too many people, it is life that gives".

What an absurd quote. First of all, it implies that any kind of pain is temporary and that relief from pain is never an option if it results in someone's decision to exercise their right to die. I think your quote doesn't actually delegitimize the forum, it legitimizes it, making clear that some pain is so difficult to endure that providing relief in the form of death is an act of mercy. That's the key philosophy behind assisted suicide. What's the problem here? How does that relate to the forum?

And you criticise that we don't protect vulnerable people enough. Well, luckily I already addressed that talking point in a previous thread. Being vulnerable doesn't mean you are unable to make rational decisions, see this study:

I have to reject your entire premise based on that scientific study. I think vulnerable people have a right to individual autonomy, so they also have right to make decisions they consider appropiate for the current situation. We both know protecting "vulnerabel people" is a scape goat to go after all people who are struggling, it's a deeply regressive notion, it's an extension of the "think of the children"-fallacy and it comes from a social-conservative interpretion of liberty. I don't even know why you bring up that topic in the first place, it's not a topic specific to this forum, the question if vulnerable people should roam the internet freely without any protections is a conversation we should have when we talk about safety on the internet in general and if it's okay to infringe on the individual autonomy of adults in certain situations. But as I said, I reject your premise and the study I've linked seems to agree with me.

You're also implying that a distressed mental state is only temporary but how do you know? We had member in this forum who experience strong depression and suicidality for years, myself included by the way. What's the point of that talking point? We simply don't know if someone can recover from their struggle. I know a lot of people can't. Are we just gonna throw them under the bus and prolong their life indefinitely even when they scream and yell for relief? Is that a compassionate position?

As I said, you shouldn't pretend to talk for suicidal people. You don't. You have no idea about the subject matter and you should have sticked to music.
How do you even know if people who register in this community don't have the mental capacity to use this forum? It's just an assumption, nothing else. I think people who specifically seek out the content of this forum know what they want. And most people here don't sound like they're in some kind of episode as you suggest. The vast majority of members can describe very well why they are here. If you just spent a little bit of time here instead of being a judgemental dork, you would realize that we have plenty of members who have been struggling for years without relief. And you're essentially sitting on your chair, probably not knowing what it means to suffer, and you scream you want more, you want more? More of what? More suffering? And you think that's the compassionate position?

Chapter five. Instruction threads and the "marketplace"
[responding to "the instructions thread", "the marketplace"]

You're implying we work with Exit. It's a conspiracy theory. The forum doesn't make any profit, period. Your claim that this forum is illegal in most countries is therefore incorrect. Nobody is allowed to sell anything on the forum. If we find out, we take action. Your claim that the forum works as a marketplace is therefore false as well. You shouldn't listen so much to Kelli. She doesn't understand anything and she is simply spreading misinformation to make the forum look twice as bad. But I'll talk about her later.

Not a good look, Tantacrul. The website isn't illegal, that's why we're still here. There have been countless attempts to deplatform us, don't worry. Shout as much as you want.

Chapter six. Bobby C
[responding to "assisting those below 18"]

You claim that we knew who Bobby C was. We don't. It's as simple as that. It's all just really a fallacy. He was a member of your community too, right? So I could ask, hey why didn't this guy feel comfortable enough to open up in your server if you're such a great guy? I could play the same blame game but that doesn't really bring us anywhere. We can all point the fingers all day long and pretend this forum the only factor when it comes to someones decision to make a tragic choice. That's not the case and you know that. I'm just curious, why did you start caring about that guy when it was too late? Do you even care or is this video just an attempt to virtue signal what a great person you are? Your choice.

Chapter seven. Responsible reporting

Right at the very start, (at the 4 minute mark) Tantacrul claims that he wants to follow guidelines on media reporting about suicide and that's why he claims he doesn't want to mention the name of the website. But there is a just a problem. He already liked and followed several people on Twitter who have the name of the website in their bio. So it's unavoidable that his community will find its way to this forum.

View attachment 103733

If someone from his audience wants to dig a little bit deeper into the forum that's mentioned in his video, it's not gonna be very difficult to find it, thanks to him following people who use social media to spread awareness about this community. So let's make one thing clear. He intentionally exposes his audience to this forum, I consider this a little bit hypocritical. Just to make clear who acts responsible in this situation. And here is the thing, based on the screenshots you've included in your video, people will find this forum. What do you think happened every time when a news outlet covered the existence of this forum? It increased our member count.

It was a big mistake to talk about this forum because as I'm writing this thread, just a few hours after you published your video, we already had thousands of guests. The registration queue spiked, depressed people from your community want to join our forum. I'm asking you right now, given you think this is a very bad place: can you live with the guilt, when your audience makes accounts in this forum, a place that's apparently so bad, it needs political legislation to be taken down?

View attachment 103740

"Everyone's got their priority I suppose."

Your goal to follow media guidelines already backfired. And if you really think your video is gonna change anything, after the NYT already covered us on their front page, you're mistaken. I can defend my position, this community and the existence of this forum with a clear conscience. I've done this repeatedly in the past. And you know why I did that? Because I believe in something. I believe in individual autonomy and I believe in compassionate treatment of struggling people, so much, that I dedicate a large junk of my life for that cause. I don't spend a lot of time taking down what other people have built, I spent my time maintaining this community because I believe it's a good thing. And what are you doing? You're making a video concern trolling about this forum but I can assure you, if you read the messages I've read of people who were bedridden, haunted with so much physical pain they couldn't even leave their bed anymore, you'd think twice about posting such a video, throwing these people under the bus. No, if you have talked to these people, you would become an activist for compassionate treatment of these people and that includes the right to die. Because, here is the deal, for some people, the only relief from pain is death. That's why in my country we legalized assisted suicide to the fullest extend. The right to die is a neglected topic, almost every single country outlawed assisted suicide but there is a need for it, and that's why this forum has legitimacy and that's why people seek to participate in this forum. It's all about neglected needs. I live in one of the few countries that legalized assisted suicide. You don't. You don't want the forum to exist? Then get to work and make sure the people that write desperate messages to me don't have to use this forum to find peace in their last moments of their life.

Chapter eight. Who are the opponents of Sanctioned Suicide?
[responding to "taking action"]


A lot of your information is based on claims from people you call "grieving family members". The spearhead of these grieving parents is Kelli. She leads FixThe26 and is the most vocal opponent of this forum. I have thought about this for a long time but given that these people still successfully pretend to be victims, I have to break my silence about the behavior of these people. FixThe26 and the woman who is behind that organisation has a history of harassing, slandering, stalking, mocking and threatening members of our community. When she doxed Mahakali, a well-known member here, posting a picture of her on Twitter, it enraged the entire community. Let's take a look at her actions.

View attachment 103744

View attachment 103743

I have censored the image. Kelli didn't censor it. It was an attempt to silence a critic. Someone who has been a member in the forum. I talked to Mahakali and she confirmed that this instance here greatly contributed to her suffering. This is enough to push someone over the edge. She died one month later.

View attachment 103741

Here she encouraged physical violence on the past site owner, saying he should get publicly executed. Lynch mob. This is a woman that's highly unstable and she has every reason to spread misinformation and outright lies about this community. I know you didn't know that, Tantacrul. But maybe you should have done your research. You think I made it up? Just recently her account twitter.com/fixthe26 got suspended, finally.

View attachment 103745

She engaged in so much targeted harassement and abuse. There are more victims. And all the other family members you included in your video, I'm not gonna name them to protect their identity, have engaged in similiar behavior. Someone celebrated when a member of our community committed suicide after months of abuse and bullying she directed towards that member. They love to play with the identity, leak names. They play the intimidation games really well. Jeremy, an ex-member who has done an interview for Fixthe26, has stalked and harassed a trans member of our community. The list is long. But this thread isn't about these people, I don't play these games. This thread is about your inability to do proper research and take everything they say for granted to craft a narrative that's dangerous to say the least.

But here is the deal. These people aren't victims. They didn't take their own life. They're predators. And it's important to know that not one single "grieving parent" so far has condemned what Kelli has done under that username, the opposite is the case. They all engage in the same kind of harassement towards members of this community. Kelli has already created a new account, twitter.com/SanctionedStop. She is actively cirumcumventing her Twitter ban. So once again, these people weaponized grief. They have spread so many lies about this community and when I took leadership of this community, they did the same to me.

And look. I'm not gonna tell you what to think. I'm a free thinker, not a cultist as you claim. You can make up your own mind. But you should ask yourself, why are the most vocal opponents of this forum predators who harass and stalk individuals like that?
Read this thread if you want to know more about these people and their shady behavior.

Last but not least, these screenshot of me supposedly attacking these people doesn't display anything I have written. As I said, these people have every reason to spread misinformation. Every time someone takes time to criticise them on Twitter, they claim it's me. As if I don't have better things to do than create account after account after account. And if you knew what else they think to know about me, you would know that they don't know anything about me. They're not gonna like that, but that's the truth.

Chapter nine. Online safety bill
[responding to "taking action"]

I already wrote a thread about this and if you value freedom of speech and privacy, you shouldn't support it.

Chapter ten. The mental health system
[responding to "Please seek help. You are not alone."]


Last but not least you finally address the flaws in our system. I'm impressed. Your video takes 46 minutes to watch and you dedicate a few seconds when the video is about to end about the mental health system. Did you address coercision as a common practice? Human rights violations? No. You just claim there are a few problems and that's it, for example that many of us can't talk about being suicidal because we get shamed. But do you even understand the scope of the problem? It's not just about shaming people, which is one of the reasons people would rather come to this forum to discuss deeply personal issues, it's about coercision on a systemic level. Human rights violations. You can get locked up if you tell your doctor that you're suicidal. Talking about your suicidality is a game with fire, I have played it before and you can burn yourself really badly.

So when you claim that this forum or the community has cult-like behavior, referring to members of this community spreading negative sentiments towards mental health institutions or their parents, there is a fucking reason. First of all, I never did any of that, okay. I'm not aware that we are discouraging people from talking to important people in their lives about their problems. But we also need to look at the circumstances of most members in this community. I just recently launched a poll, asking members if their parents contributed to their suffering because my parents certainly played their role when it comes to my struggles. And according to that poll, around 75%(!) of all respondents said their parents contributed in some way to their struggles. So wouldn't it only be a natural theme of this community that members distrust their parents in some way? You don't think there is a very personal reason why so many of us are anti-natalists? And most importantly, many of us dealt with traumatic experiencs around involuntary hospitalisation, then again, wouldn't it be only natural to have concerns around that, especially when they neglect our individual autonomy and our bodily integrity, which are very fundamental concepts of any civilisation? I had close friends of mine describe very horrible and traumatic experiences, which happened as a result of involuntary hospitalisation, some even said they would rather die(!) then ever go back. Maybe you're simply arguing from a position of ignorance, Tantacrul. And maybe you said all of these things about this community because you don't really care about the well being of suicidal people, about the horrible human rights violations we have to endure in these institutions when we open up. Maybe that's the reason why all of that was so easy for you to say but you forget that the people you blame are the same people you claim to care so much about. Odd, isn't it. Again, if people in this community have a negative opinion of their family members or of their doctors, there is certainly a reason for that.

And about mental health, here is a tweet from someone who has recently committed suicide. She was a suicide prevention activist.


Maybe, the problem with mental health isn't just that you get shamed a little bit if you open up, you donk. Look here.


Maybe that gives you a hint? Come on.

And look, I also want to get one point across. No amount of therapy fixes physical or mental pain, political discrimination and financial problems. There are some problems you can't fix with the mental health system because we live in a society that doesn't really care about struggling people. You want some examples from a trans woman?


So you're essentially defending that system with that video and blaming us for speaking out. You're a part of the problem. I live in a country with a high rate of involuntary hospitalisation and it's not cool. You really need to be careful with your words if you value your freedom, especially when you're suicidal and talking to a doctor.

And let's make some things clear, before I end my response to your poorly researched video. You ended your video on this note:
"Every step closer can connect someone to life and the help they want, sometimes those steps are big but sometimes, all it takes is a smile"

That's literally how you decided to end that video, your most meaningful video ever - with an empty platitude. Do you think people in this community who are in so much pain that they literally want to end their lives want your smile? It just proves all over again that you have no idea about the suffering that's happening in this community. You're blind and you'll never be able to understand. Do you think that was a smart way to end the video? It wasn't. You're the perfect example of everything that's wrong with this society. You just showed us every problem with suicide, the way we handle it both as a societal problem but also as a human right. And it shows me you don't care.

My compassion for people doesn't end with suicide prevention. Suicide prevention without addressing systemic issues that causes suidiality in the first place is meaningless. There are so many problems in this world, repeating the suicide hotline every time you talk about suicide is merely a bandaid but it doesn't fix anything. I want more people to live happy and decent lives but those who want a way out, should have a way out. 99% of the world outlawed assisted suicide and you point the finger to that one forum that that breaks the stigma around the right to die?

I'm done with my response. I think I made my case. And I think I was very clear about my opinion. It took a lot of time to write that. Thanks for reading.

It was the best reading before ctb.
 
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Bloodhoof

Bloodhoof

I was born sans consent, my parents were selfish..
Nov 22, 2023
12
While I greatly disliked the video on YT, it is how I found this place and for that I am thankful.
 
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Lupgevif

Lupgevif

.
Jul 23, 2020
929
This man is gross. All the faces and mannerisms in his video make him look like a vlogger or a "video essayist" talking about the latest Marvel movie. And the interviews with different camera angles? Talk about the effort to make a beautiful video about an "ugly topic".

Yo! What the fuck? What is the second forum you need to pay to join? Why have I never seen it before? I want in!

Never mind, already discovered what it is. Dirty liar.

Does anybody know what was the substance he bought from the now arrested seller? PM it to me, please? (Just for curiosity, lol).
 
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DEATH IS FREEDOM

DEATH IS FREEDOM

Death is the solution to unsolvable problems.
Sep 13, 2023
608
Keep doing what is right in a world that wants you to do everything that is wrong.
 
ijustwishtodie

ijustwishtodie

death will be my ultimate bliss
Oct 29, 2023
3,338
What a well written post. You certainly have some talent when it comes to this. Though it's unfortunate that a lot of people won't even consider your points as their pro life views strips them of all critical thinking
 
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tunnelV

tunnelV

Misanthrope is my religion
Oct 19, 2023
89
Excellent post. It almost seems like he's saying it's okay for anyone else but minors to end their life. That's how people think if you're under age 30 you're to dumb and aren't level headed enough to make that choice. Not all minors are overly hormonal fools. That's the picture people like painting. I've been like this since I was 13, that's over 20 years ago. His points are useless. He's basically a living version of those generic anti suicide articles. Same thing they focus on youth..make false promises about things getting better in time. Tell you to run to your family, it totally excludes those without family or those who have evil family. Exactly like him those articles are unoriginal generic and it's not a one size fits all solution.

According to him and every anti suicide article. For you to want to live, you need money so you can pay for treatments. You either need health insurance or a lot of money to blow on meds that take months to work if at all. Also you have to pay someone to want to talk to you. After that you need a family "support" system. Meaning you have to have good decent family who will support you. So two things right off the bat is you can not be in poverty and can't be born into an evil family if you have any hopes of living without the S thoughts. That's the escape.


You can tell he doesn't actually care. It's why he does what most people do "think about the kids" it's used to pull on people's emotions by painting the picture that this site is some type of online teen S rave. It will get him more shock vaule from his already disingenuous video.

It's why his points are so invalid. It excludes a lot of people. I have wondered though just being alive people certainly look down on others who have less money. Look down on those for having no family. So perhaps subconsciously he thinks those people are allowed to go through with it simply because society doesn't vaule people without these two things. It's very expensive in the USA to fail at it. I read about this 19 year old man. He attempted and he spent a week in the hospital. Now he has medical debt of 93k.

People like Tantacrul are trying to evaluate and judge based on non experience. He can't say "something is wrong" while he has lived life on easy mode. He rather millions of people live suffering all because he's had a good life. In La la land so can we. It doesn't work that way.
 
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K

kleeni p

Member
Jul 6, 2023
5
I don't understand does this forum help people to kill themselves or no
 
gggy

gggy

Wishing you the best❤️
Dec 22, 2023
82
this would make a great court case valid arguments from both sides
 
Life_and_Death

Life_and_Death

Do what's best for you 🕯️
Jul 1, 2020
6,695
I don't understand does this forum help people to kill themselves or no
the difference would be "encouragement".
you come here of your own free will, do research of your own free will and can back out/change your mind at any point, of your own free will
  • Encourage acts, ask for encouragement, or help anyone commit any acts.
    • Do not encourage, suggest, manipulate, coerce, or help users carry out acts of any nature whatsoever, including suicide; only provide factual information and emotional support to those who ask for it. Do not try to get the community to tell you what to do, only you can choose your path and actions.
so, to answer your direct question of "helping to kill themselves", no, id consider it more so helping to prevent a failed attempt with irreversible sometimes even disfiguring consequences
(although i question how well this rule is actually followed/enforced. theres a lot of times i feel it crosses the line into helping, but thats not my problem)
Moreover, be advised that NO ONE on this site will advise you on how to end your life. Helping someone die, including advising and including specifics, is against the rules of the site, illegal in many countries and jurisdictions, and is unethical.

and yet i see multiple threads/posts a day "what can i.." "oh you should try.."
sometimes i feel like this site wants to be shut down lmfao
 
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O

oddetoad

Arcanist
Nov 25, 2023
497
I hope Tantacrul gets a youtube strike and that his channel gets permanently removed
 
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raindrops

raindrops

Someday, eventually
Mar 29, 2020
443
🤬 I'd be lost without ss. I'm so glad I found ss by myself. I'm not even gonna go give that guy a view or even time to talk shit 😠
 
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