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thehorizons

Student
Mar 25, 2026
139
I'm starting to get a better picture of the nitrogen method in terms of where to source it, what I need, its effectiveness, etc. That said, I have several questions that I hope some of the experts on SaSu could shed some light on. There are three things I'm not clear on.

First, how could you actually restrain yourself when using this method? I'm looking at the PPH and from my understanding is that when we pull the exit bag down after hyperventiliating for 1–2 minutes, we would lose consciousness after taking one deep breath. If we lose consciousness we technically can't restrain ourselves after pulling the bag down. Or, do we pull the bag down first, restrain ourselves, and then take one deep breath to lose consciousness? The PPH doesn't mention anything about restraining oneself too. By restraining, I mean sitting in a chair with some chest straps to prevent convulsing after I lose consciousness.

Second, when we go unconscious, isn't there the possibility of our head thrashing about and tearing the exit bag open or the hose becomes loose?

Lastly, so when the nitrogen seeps out of the collar of the exit bag, would it be a danger to those entering the room later after we CTBed? I guess I have sense of altruism still. I was wondering, wouldn't the nitrogen fill the room? Do we leave a note to any coming into the room beforehand?

I probably have more questions than these, but these are just some lingering ones that I can't find an answer to on this forum.

Additionally, my equipment list is pretty bare bones right now:

– Nitrogen cylinder
– Regulator
– Exit bag that's a clear turkey bag (using a sweat band instead of an elastic collar since I can't find videos online on how to make it and this seems relatively effective)
– Chair (with the chest strap)
 
Chito and Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri

My DMs are always open if you want to message me!
Apr 9, 2026
67
I'd recommend seeing if you could restrain yourself first, and if not possible, you could also just lie down in bed so that you convulse a lot on the bed.

Also, sure, your head may thrash around, but you could also just lose consciousness, and unless you thrash around super severely you won't tear open the bag. Also, you could use duct tape in order to keep the hose in place and keep the bag tight around your neck.

Also, I don't believe that the nitrogen should really leak out but feel free to leave a note if you want to.
 
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thehorizons

Student
Mar 25, 2026
139
Based on the PPH and from my understanding, wouldn't all the nitrogen eventually leak out? I mean initially the oxygen and carbon dioxide are leaking out after being displaced by the nitrogen, but then as the nitrogen keeps flowing into the bag as lose consciousness and CTB it'll leak out as well.
 
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Chito and Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri

My DMs are always open if you want to message me!
Apr 9, 2026
67
Based on the PPH and from my understanding, wouldn't all the nitrogen eventually leak out? I mean initially the oxygen and carbon dioxide are leaking out after being displaced by the nitrogen, but then as the nitrogen keeps flowing into the bag as lose consciousness and CTB it'll leak out as well.
Hm... I'm not too sure about that, but I guess it wouldn't really matter as even if it all did leak out people could just air the room out, no? And again, you could leave a note and all.

Oh, and don't forget how other people have done similar things and when they were discovered the whole room didn't feel full of nitrogen or whatever they were inhaling, at least according to the forensics reports. And remember, you could always open a window if you feel like it. And if you somehow have no windows, you could open the door and then open another window if possible. And if it's a closet, then, well, the exact same procedure as the no windows thing lmao, but my point still stands.
 
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behindtheveil

Member
Oct 12, 2025
313
Nitrogen is not a hazardous gas; it is present in the air we breathe. It only becomes dangerous when inhaled in a closed environment. Any gas that leaks out of the exit bag would het mixed with air and hence render neutral.
From my failed first attempt, I can say that you don't lose consciousness right away. You have enough time to strap yourself.
 
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thehorizons

Student
Mar 25, 2026
139
Nitrogen is not a hazardous gas; it is present in the air we breathe. It only becomes dangerous when inhaled in a closed environment. Any gas that leaks out of the exit bag would het mixed with air and hence render neutral.
From my failed first attempt, I can say that you don't lose consciousness right away. You have enough time to strap yourself.
You're right that makes sense. I was thinking earlier too how it would be hazardous only if it's in a closed off environment such as when we use the exit bag.

When you mentioned your first failed attempt, could you elaborate on that? Did you regain consciousness later on or were you discovered? Is this a reliable method then?
 
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Chito and Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri

My DMs are always open if you want to message me!
Apr 9, 2026
67
Nitrogen is not a hazardous gas; it is present in the air we breathe. It only becomes dangerous when inhaled in a closed environment. Any gas that leaks out of the exit bag would het mixed with air and hence render neutral.
From my failed first attempt, I can say that you don't lose consciousness right away. You have enough time to strap yourself.
Whoa, you had a failed first attempt utilizing an exit bag? That must've felt horrible, right?
 
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behindtheveil

Member
Oct 12, 2025
313
My attempt failed because I was under the notion that it is fast acting which it most def is not. But then I forgot to hyperventilate as well so that contributed to the situation. I never lost consciousness. I myself took it off after 20 or 30 seconds.
Plus, SI is a pain.
 
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thehorizons

Student
Mar 25, 2026
139
I see. I haven't gotten the supplies, but I definitely know that hyperventilating is key since it induces this hypoxic state. Just a final question, do you think you would have passed out eventually if you didn't take it off? Thanks for all your input.
 
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cocobutter

Member
Apr 9, 2026
38
My attempt failed because I was under the notion that it is fast acting which it most def is not. But then I forgot to hyperventilate as well so that contributed to the situation. I never lost consciousness. I myself took it off after 20 or 30 seconds.
Plus, SI is a pain.
Think you not have the pure nitrogen gas? It could be a possibility.
Based on the PPH and from my understanding, wouldn't all the nitrogen eventually leak out? I mean initially the oxygen and carbon dioxide are leaking out after being displaced by the nitrogen, but then as the nitrogen keeps flowing into the bag as lose consciousness and CTB it'll leak out as well.
What is PPH? And weher to buy the nitrogen cylinder and regulator? And what size should it be?
 
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behindtheveil

Member
Oct 12, 2025
313
I see. I haven't gotten the supplies, but I definitely know that hyperventilating is key since it induces this hypoxic state. Just a final question, do you think you would have passed out eventually if you didn't take it off? Thanks for all your input.
To be honest, I was pretty riled up after that experience. Just trying to gather strength for the next and hopefully final one. The time spent in the bag really enhanced my adrenaline. I couldn't sleep for a whole day after that.
Think you not have the pure nitrogen gas? It could be a possibility.

What is PPH? And weher to buy the nitrogen cylinder and regulator? And what size should it be?
Its 99 * food grade. My doubt lies on not hyperventilating.
 
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thehorizons

Student
Mar 25, 2026
139
To be honest, I was pretty riled up after that experience. Just trying to gather strength for the next and hopefully final one.

Its 99 * food grade. My doubt lies on not hyperventilating.
That's fair. Sorry that you had to go through that and whatever it is that you're experiencing right now. There's no clock for this. I've been grounded in science for a majority of my life, but recently I've started believing in fate. I believe when it's time it's time.

For me, I have some serious illnesses in which I don't see a way out in the future since there ultimately won't be a meaningful cure for me. I'm in a moment in time that I feel I have enough power and agency to CTB (might be overly optimistic about that one since I need to do a lot of logistic work still). It might not be something I could do in the future. If I didn't have these illnesses and if the problems were purely mental like most of the problems I had in the past, I would definitely reason it out.

Thanks for all your help though.
 
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jackiebrown67

Member
Apr 4, 2026
9
I went to the Dollar tree today and looked up at the balloons and had a wonderful thought, how wonderful is it called nitrous oxide? You said Nitrogen. How blissful.
 
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thehorizons

Student
Mar 25, 2026
139
Think you not have the pure nitrogen gas? It could be a possibility.

What is PPH? And weher to buy the nitrogen cylinder and regulator? And what size should it be?
It's the Peaceful Pill Handbook (ironic since the peaceful pill is now a myth). I've been reading it to find out more about inert gases. It doesn't go in enough detail, so I'm using SaSu and other resources as well. As to where you can obtain the cylinder and regulator, it depends on your country. In my country it's not regulated and it's used for basic stuff like food, but that doesn't mean it's a walk in the park to obtain either cause I have to find a way to transport the cylinder to the place I want to CTB (it's not like you're buying some sneakers from Foot Locker).
 
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cocobutter

Member
Apr 9, 2026
38
It's the Peaceful Pill Handbook (ironic since the peaceful pill is now a myth). I've been reading it to find out more about inert gases. It doesn't go in enough detail, so I'm using SaSu and other resources as well. As to where you can obtain the cylinder and regulator, it depends on your country. In my country it's not regulated and it's used for basic stuff like food, but that doesn't mean it's a walk in the park to obtain either cause I have to find a way to transport the cylinder to the place I want to CTB (it's not like you're buying some sneakers from Foot Locker).
How big is the tank? I was thinking I could carry it in a bag.
 
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thehorizons

Student
Mar 25, 2026
139
Sometimes the online stores show the sizes relative to a model's height. It'll give you an idea.
 
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gardenhouse

Experienced
Mar 26, 2026
221
I'm starting to get a better picture of the nitrogen method in terms of where to source it, what I need, its effectiveness, etc. That said, I have several questions that I hope some of the experts on SaSu could shed some light on. There are three things I'm not clear on.

First, how could you actually restrain yourself when using this method? I'm looking at the PPH and from my understanding is that when we pull the exit bag down after hyperventiliating for 1–2 minutes, we would lose consciousness after taking one deep breath. If we lose consciousness we technically can't restrain ourselves after pulling the bag down. Or, do we pull the bag down first, restrain ourselves, and then take one deep breath to lose consciousness? The PPH doesn't mention anything about restraining oneself too. By restraining, I mean sitting in a chair with some chest straps to prevent convulsing after I lose consciousness.

Second, when we go unconscious, isn't there the possibility of our head thrashing about and tearing the exit bag open or the hose becomes loose?

Lastly, so when the nitrogen seeps out of the collar of the exit bag, would it be a danger to those entering the room later after we CTBed? I guess I have sense of altruism still. I was wondering, wouldn't the nitrogen fill the room? Do we leave a note to any coming into the room beforehand?

I probably have more questions than these, but these are just some lingering ones that I can't find an answer to on this forum.

Additionally, my equipment list is pretty bare bones right now:

– Nitrogen cylinder
– Regulator
– Exit bag that's a clear turkey bag (using a sweat band instead of an elastic collar since I can't find videos online on how to make it and this seems relatively effective)
– Chair (with the chest strap)
Maybe travel pillow would be a good idea to keep your head in position.

From my understanding , you turn on the nitrogen tank on and exhale all the oxygen from your lungs, pull the bag down your head, and tighten it and take a deep breath, according to PPH book you'll loose consciousness after two breaths. Read here.

Step 1: Adjust the elastic on the collar of the exit bag so that the
bag sits snug, but not tight, fit around the neck. Next, position the
bag u p on the forehead and pat it down so there is n o air inside.
Step 2: Ensure the gas cylinder is full b y checking the pressure
gauge on the regulator. Next step i s to adjust the regulator so
that the gauge indicates a flow rate o f 15 liters/min o f nitrogen
will be delivered into the exit bag. In about 2 minutes the bag
(sitting on top o f one's head) will be fully inflated. During this
time one can take a series of deep breaths (hyperventilate)
which will lower blood CO, levels. When the bag is full, excess
nitrogen will begin leaking out from around the clastic collar.
Use a mirror (and consult the images on the following page)
t o check that the bag is correctly positioned above the head.
Step 3 : When ready to proceed, fully exhale, expelling all the
air from the lungs and pull the bag down over the face until
i t i s positioned around the neck. Then take the deepest breath
possible.
Within one o r two breaths, consciousness will be lost. The gas
will continue to flow, escaping harmlessly from around the neck
elastic and taking any exhaled carbon dioxide with it. Death will
occur within 5 - 10 minutes.
 
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DeathSweetDeath

Elementalist
Nov 12, 2025
870
Is nitrogen gas SC really painless?

You will not be conscious to experience it.
How big is the tank? I was thinking I could carry it in a bag.
Carry it?
These tanks are not light. Mine is 40cf, and granted, I'm a small person, but I wouldn't have been able to get it out of the store without a cart on wheels. Some people go with only 20cf, but that's not really advisable especially if you want to do any testing, it's cutting things too close.
 
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Intoxicated

Intoxicated

MIA Man
Nov 16, 2023
1,232
Is nitrogen gas SC really painless?

Well, let's look what's there:

Advocates claim that removing oxygen while keeping carbon dioxide levels low prevents panic – a claim rooted in misunderstanding. The body is exquisitely sensitive to oxygen deprivation. Tiny sensors in our neck, called carotid bodies, constantly monitor oxygen levels. When levels fall, they trigger powerful signals to breathe harder.

"Misunderstanding" would be thinking that just wanting to breathe harder implies panic. When you do hard exercise, your breaths become deeper and more frequent, but this state doesn't produce panic.

This response, known as air hunger, is one of the most distressing sensations humans can experience. Unlike drifting into unconsciousness under anaesthesia, oxygen starvation brings an overwhelming feeling of suffocation, panic and terror.

This is just a blatant exaggeration. The peripheral chemoreceptors (responsible for detection of low oxygen levels) do not induce that "overwhelming feeling of suffocation" in contrast to the central chemoreceptors when they detect very high levels of carbon dioxide.

At 50,000 feet, pilots have less than 12 seconds before confusion sets in – and those moments are anything but peaceful, equivalent to breathing almost pure nitrogen at ground level. The experience is so traumatic that military and commercial pilots undergo hypoxia recognition training precisely to avoid confusion and loss of control when oxygen fails.

Losing control when piloting an aircraft is scary for obvious reasons. It's the risk of a possible catastrophe what produces anxiety/panic rather than the perceptions of air hunger.

In nitrogen executions, the situation is far worse. Prisoners are restrained, unable to expand their chest fully against straps that restrict breathing, amplifying the sense of suffocation.

Restraining like that may indeed cause discomfort, but this practice is likely uncommon when committing suicide or going through voluntary euthanasia.

A similar claim of a "gentle" death has entered debates over assisted suicide. In Switzerland, the Sarco pod – a 3D‑printed capsule filled with nitrogen – has been marketed as an elegant, pain‑free way to die. Its inventor, Dr Philip Nitschke, has said users "drift off peacefully". However, there is no substantial evidence to support this.

Somehow the author "forgot" to mention the long history of using inert gas asphyxiation with exit bags and face masks, lol. Some cases are documented; for example,


The notion that breathing pure nitrogen induces calm probably stems from confusion with nitrogen narcosis

No, it stems from real experiences confirming that any somewhat profound sense of suffocation does not occur as long as the procedure of gas asphyxiation is carried out in a proper way.

At sea level, nitrogen simply displaces oxygen, causing hypoxia and anoxia without any sedative properties.

Actually hypoxemia does have a sedative effect, which manifests itself as gradual clouding of consciousness leading to complete loss of consciousness in the end.

The result is not a blissful drift into unconsciousness, but a terrifying physiological fight for air.

This is just a lie. I think, this kind of misinformation became possible because people like Philip Nitschke, who are advocating for use of nitrogen (or other inert gases), completely ignored the existence of peripheral chemoreceptors. If they instead fairly acknowledged that low oxygen is detectable by the body and some air hunger from oxygen deprivation is possible, with an explicit remark that it's not significantly unpleasant in contrast to the sense of suffocation that can be induced by high CO₂ levels, it would be harder to blame them in misunderstanding the reality to the extent that they could somehow overlook "terrifying fight for air".
 
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iamgood

Member
Feb 4, 2025
79
Well, let's look what's there:

Advocates claim that removing oxygen while keeping carbon dioxide levels low prevents panic – a claim rooted in misunderstanding. The body is exquisitely sensitive to oxygen deprivation. Tiny sensors in our neck, called carotid bodies, constantly monitor oxygen levels. When levels fall, they trigger powerful signals to breathe harder.

"Misunderstanding" would be thinking that just wanting to breathe harder implies panic. When you do hard exercise, your breaths become deeper and more frequent, but this state doesn't produce panic.

This response, known as air hunger, is one of the most distressing sensations humans can experience. Unlike drifting into unconsciousness under anaesthesia, oxygen starvation brings an overwhelming feeling of suffocation, panic and terror.

This is just a blatant exaggeration. The peripheral chemoreceptors (responsible for detection of low oxygen levels) do not induce that "overwhelming feeling of suffocation" in contrast to the central chemoreceptors when they detect very high levels of carbon dioxide.

At 50,000 feet, pilots have less than 12 seconds before confusion sets in – and those moments are anything but peaceful, equivalent to breathing almost pure nitrogen at ground level. The experience is so traumatic that military and commercial pilots undergo hypoxia recognition training precisely to avoid confusion and loss of control when oxygen fails.

Losing control when piloting an aircraft is scary for obvious reasons. It's the risk of a possible catastrophe what produces anxiety/panic rather than the perceptions of air hunger.

In nitrogen executions, the situation is far worse. Prisoners are restrained, unable to expand their chest fully against straps that restrict breathing, amplifying the sense of suffocation.

Restraining like that may indeed cause discomfort, but this practice is likely uncommon when committing suicide or going through voluntary euthanasia.

A similar claim of a "gentle" death has entered debates over assisted suicide. In Switzerland, the Sarco pod – a 3D‑printed capsule filled with nitrogen – has been marketed as an elegant, pain‑free way to die. Its inventor, Dr Philip Nitschke, has said users "drift off peacefully". However, there is no substantial evidence to support this.

Somehow the author "forgot" to mention the long history of using inert gas asphyxiation with exit bags and face masks, lol. Some cases are documented; for example,


The notion that breathing pure nitrogen induces calm probably stems from confusion with nitrogen narcosis

No, it stems from real experiences confirming that any somewhat profound sense of suffocation does not occur as long as the procedure of gas asphyxiation is carried out in a proper way.

At sea level, nitrogen simply displaces oxygen, causing hypoxia and anoxia without any sedative properties.

Actually hypoxemia does have a sedative effect, which manifests itself as gradual clouding of consciousness leading to complete loss of consciousness in the end.

The result is not a blissful drift into unconsciousness, but a terrifying physiological fight for air.

This is just a lie. I think, this kind of misinformation became possible because people like Philip Nitschke, who are advocating for use of nitrogen (or other inert gases), completely ignored the existence of peripheral chemoreceptors. If they instead fairly acknowledged that low oxygen is detectable by the body and some air hunger from oxygen deprivation is possible, with an explicit remark that it's not significantly unpleasant in contrast to the sense of suffocation that can be induced by high CO₂ levels, it would be harder to blame them in misunderstanding the reality to the extent that they could somehow overlook "terrifying fight for air".
i also believe inert gas is not very uncomfortable, but i dont understand why these highly specialized researchers who research on respiration and human space respiratory physiology trying to argue against it

1. Death by nitrogen anoxia: On the integrated physiology of human execution[/H1]
David C. Poole, Damian M. Bailey

2. Physiology of nitrogen: A life or death matter Damian M Bailey 1 , Vaughan G Macefield 2 , David C Poole
 
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Intoxicated

Intoxicated

MIA Man
Nov 16, 2023
1,232
i also believe inert gas is not very uncomfortable, but i dont understand why these highly specialized researchers who research on respiration and human space respiratory physiology trying to argue against it
Maybe due to conflict of interests or inability to assess information adequately, or both.
1. Death by nitrogen anoxia: On the integrated physiology of human execution

In opposition to any stated opinion that the death penalty and state execution are somehow humane, we demonstrate herein that the latest method, nitrogen anoxia, invoked by the state of Alabama is inherently inhumane.

TL;DR: the only thing they actually demonstrated is that a lack of oxygen may induce some dyspnea. No any decent evidence of significant distress associated with that dyspnea during the execution process is presented in the entire document.

Ernsting found that breathing pure nitrogen induced collapse, convulsions and unconsciousness within 17–20 s (Ernsting, 1963) which was accompanied by a 5‐ to 6‐fold elevation in ventilation and increase in heart rate and blood pressure.

In the experiments conducted by Ernsting, the subjects were instructed to hyperventilate, so elevation in ventilation was implied primarily by the design of the experiments rather than by the natural physiological response:

During the period of breathing nitrogen the subject was instructed to breathe as deeply as possible at a rate of about 20 breaths per minute.
...
1. Brief profound hypoxia was induced by voluntary over-ventilation whilst breathing nitrogen. Unconsciousness ensued when this procedure was performed for longer than 16 sec. Voluntary over-ventilation with nitrogen for 16 sec reduced the end-tidal oxygen tension to below 10 mm Hg for 8 sec.​


As for increased heart rate and blood pressure, these effects can also be produced by voluntary hyperventilation alone (even if you breathe plain air containing 21% oxygen), hence the given case is not very informative regarding cardiovascular changes produced specifically by nitrogen-induced hypoxia, without comparing them against the changes that could be produced by the same breathing pattern with normal air.

Copeland et al. (2015) based their report, in part, on the work of Ernsting (1963) and posited further that 'inhalation of only 1–2 breaths of pure nitrogen will cause a sudden loss of consciousness'. Considering that the one to two breaths were normal tidal volumes of 0.5 L, these would dilute the initial ∼16% O2 in the lungs to 14% on the first breath and 12% on the second breath. This might lower arterial 𝑃O2 from its normal 95–100 mmHg to ∼50 and 36 mmHg, respectively, but would certainly not reduce the arterial O2 to the level that might result in a loss of consciousness.

As for unconsciousness from 1-2 breaths, Copeland et al. refer to European Industrial Gases Association:

Without oxygen present, inhalation of only 1-2 breaths of pure nitrogen will cause a sudden loss of consciousness and, if no oxygen is provided, eventually death. (European Industrial Gases Association, 2009, p. 3).​

CopelandReport_NitrogenHypoxia.pdf

They can be blamed for omission of the fact that those breaths must be very deep in order to achieve LOC and that you'd probably need to wait for LOC, holding your breath (so there would be no 3rd breath), and that the LOC is not really sudden for the subject (you can actually feel how it's coming), although the unresponsiveness may seem sudden for an external observer; but the presented wording is not entirely wrong.

The report by Copeland et al. (2015) seems very concerned that the carotid bodies are not stimulated by respiratory acidosis as breathing continues to offload carbon dioxide. But, crucially, they fail to appreciate that low arterial 𝑃O2 provides its intensely dyspnoeic response via the carotid bodies in and of itself.

I don't see any mentioning of carotid bodies (or peripheral chemoreceptors) in the Copeland's report. In this report, the authors focus on hypercapnia as a realistic cause of distress:

Unlike asphyxiation, hypoxia via the inhalation of nitrogen allows the body to expel the carbon dioxide buildup that is normally associated with the respiratory cycle. This helps prevent a condition known as hypercapnia an accumulation of carbon dioxide in the blood. The result of this buildup of carbon dioxide is respiratory acidosis a shifting of the ph levels in the blood to become more acidic. Some of the symptoms of respiratory acidosis are expected to be present in cases of asphyxiation, but not expected to be present under pure hypoxia are anxiety and headaches, (Merrick Manuel, 2013).​

Copeland et al. (2015) also cited Ernsting (1963) that 'there was no reported physical discomfort' and went so far as to opine that 'low levels (sic) of hypoxia' produce euphoria and that the anxiety that presents with asphyxiation (a proposed alternative that could be achieved simply by placing a plastic bag over the victim's head) would not be present. The latter point is disingenuous, because Ernsting (1963) did not comment at all on physical comfort or lack thereof.

In case if those 3 men had experienced any somewhat significant distress, it would be strange if symptoms like dimness of vision and generalized convulsion were mentioned, but the distress was not. As if dimness of vision were a more important symptom that is worth mentioning, while the distress is just a minor thing. Besides, Copeland et al. don't base their conclusions solely on data from Ernsting. The Copeland's report points to way more explicit evidences regarding the level of comfort:

Perhaps one of the greatest testaments to both the humanity of nitrogen induced hypoxia as well as the ease of administration, is its rapid popularity as a self selected means of suicide. Suicide by hypoxia using an inert gas is the most widely promoted method of human euthanasia by right to die advocates (Howard, M.O. et. al., 2011, P. 61).

The trend toward using an "exit bag" filled with an inert gas such as nitrogen or helium likely started with a publication of Final Exit: The Practicalities of Self Deliverance and Assisted Suicide for the Dying. The authors of the publication sought to identify methods of death that were swift, simple, painless, failure proof, inexpensive, non disfiguring and did not require a physician's assistance or prescription (Howard, M.O. et. al., 2011. p 61).

...

Reports of deaths observed via this method suggest that it is painless. Jim Chastain, Ph.D. President of the Final Exit Network of Florida described the process this way: In the several events I have observed the person breathes the odorless, tasteless helium deeply about three or four times and then is unconscious, no gagging or gasping. Death follows in 4-5 minutes. A peaceful process.

Derek Humphrey, current chair of the Final Exit advisory board is quoted as saying:

In the approximate 300 cases which have been reported to me there has never been mention of choking or gagging. When I witnessed the helium death of a friend of mine it could not have been more peaceful (Final Exit, 2010).​

Why didn't this cited text deserve any comments from David C Poole et al.? Maybe because it would be inconvenient to address in their propaganda against inert gas asphyxiation?

More importantly, those physiologists among us who have studied the effects of breathing nitrogen anoxia know that it is an intensely disturbing and discomforting experience.

"Know" from where? A serious PubMed article should have mentioned at least one actual experiment with description of the relevant symptoms from the subject(s) undergoing inert gas asphyxiation, because just "knowing" is a level of yellow journalism.

Rather than becoming unconscious within a few breaths and dying within 1 min as stated in the Copeland Report, Smith would have been expected to show signs of severe discomfort and distress with intolerable air hunger for ∼1 min and dying within 5–6 min had he been switched to 100% nitrogen in his mask. Although the exact timing is dependent, in part, upon his breathing pattern and the rate of decreased brain O2 supply and metabolism, the eyewitness reports that claim otherwise raise the possibility that the inspired gas was not pure nitrogen, either because the gas cylinder supplying nitrogen did not contain 100% nitrogen or because leaks in the system permitted the entry of O2.

Another very probable reason: he resisted and held his breath as long as he could, which resulted in hypercapnia, causing discomfort. Comfortable euthanasia with the given method needs some cooperation between the subject to be killed and the staff. If the subject doesn't want to cooperate, then he can experience some significantly unpleasant sensations, and he becomes responsible for his distress.

Also I don't get where that "dying within 1 min" comes from. The actual text of the report suggests a different estimation:

Most electrochemical brain activity should cease shortly after loss of consciousness, and the heart rate will begin to increase to varying degrees until it stops beating 3 to 4 minutes later.​

Note that cardiac arrest is not death yet.
2. Physiology of nitrogen: A life or death matter Damian M Bailey 1 , Vaughan G Macefield 2 , David C Poole

This one doesn't offer direct evidences of distress from inert gas asphyxiation either, just vague speculations around air hunger in general.
 
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iamgood

Member
Feb 4, 2025
79
Maybe due to conflict of interests or inability to assess information adequately, or both.


In opposition to any stated opinion that the death penalty and state execution are somehow humane, we demonstrate herein that the latest method, nitrogen anoxia, invoked by the state of Alabama is inherently inhumane.

TL;DR: the only thing they actually demonstrated is that a lack of oxygen may induce some dyspnea. No any decent evidence of significant distress associated with that dyspnea during the execution process is presented in the entire document.

Ernsting found that breathing pure nitrogen induced collapse, convulsions and unconsciousness within 17–20 s (Ernsting, 1963) which was accompanied by a 5‐ to 6‐fold elevation in ventilation and increase in heart rate and blood pressure.

In the experiments conducted by Ernsting, the subjects were instructed to hyperventilate, so elevation in ventilation was implied primarily by the design of the experiments rather than by the natural physiological response:

During the period of breathing nitrogen the subject was instructed to breathe as deeply as possible at a rate of about 20 breaths per minute.
...
1. Brief profound hypoxia was induced by voluntary over-ventilation whilst breathing nitrogen. Unconsciousness ensued when this procedure was performed for longer than 16 sec. Voluntary over-ventilation with nitrogen for 16 sec reduced the end-tidal oxygen tension to below 10 mm Hg for 8 sec.​


As for increased heart rate and blood pressure, these effects can also be produced by voluntary hyperventilation alone (even if you breathe plain air containing 21% oxygen), hence the given case is not very informative regarding cardiovascular changes produced specifically by nitrogen-induced hypoxia, without comparing them against the changes that could be produced by the same breathing pattern with normal air.

Copeland et al. (2015) based their report, in part, on the work of Ernsting (1963) and posited further that 'inhalation of only 1–2 breaths of pure nitrogen will cause a sudden loss of consciousness'. Considering that the one to two breaths were normal tidal volumes of 0.5 L, these would dilute the initial ∼16% O2 in the lungs to 14% on the first breath and 12% on the second breath. This might lower arterial 𝑃O2 from its normal 95–100 mmHg to ∼50 and 36 mmHg, respectively, but would certainly not reduce the arterial O2 to the level that might result in a loss of consciousness.

As for unconsciousness from 1-2 breaths, Copeland et al. refer to European Industrial Gases Association:

Without oxygen present, inhalation of only 1-2 breaths of pure nitrogen will cause a sudden loss of consciousness and, if no oxygen is provided, eventually death. (European Industrial Gases Association, 2009, p. 3).​

CopelandReport_NitrogenHypoxia.pdf

They can be blamed for omission of the fact that those breaths must be very deep in order to achieve LOC and that you'd probably need to wait for LOC, holding your breath (so there would be no 3rd breath), and that the LOC is not really sudden for the subject (you can actually feel how it's coming), although the unresponsiveness may seem sudden for an external observer; but the presented wording is not entirely wrong.

The report by Copeland et al. (2015) seems very concerned that the carotid bodies are not stimulated by respiratory acidosis as breathing continues to offload carbon dioxide. But, crucially, they fail to appreciate that low arterial 𝑃O2 provides its intensely dyspnoeic response via the carotid bodies in and of itself.

I don't see any mentioning of carotid bodies (or peripheral chemoreceptors) in the Copeland's report. In this report, the authors focus on hypercapnia as a realistic cause of distress:

Unlike asphyxiation, hypoxia via the inhalation of nitrogen allows the body to expel the carbon dioxide buildup that is normally associated with the respiratory cycle. This helps prevent a condition known as hypercapnia an accumulation of carbon dioxide in the blood. The result of this buildup of carbon dioxide is respiratory acidosis a shifting of the ph levels in the blood to become more acidic. Some of the symptoms of respiratory acidosis are expected to be present in cases of asphyxiation, but not expected to be present under pure hypoxia are anxiety and headaches, (Merrick Manuel, 2013).​

Copeland et al. (2015) also cited Ernsting (1963) that 'there was no reported physical discomfort' and went so far as to opine that 'low levels (sic) of hypoxia' produce euphoria and that the anxiety that presents with asphyxiation (a proposed alternative that could be achieved simply by placing a plastic bag over the victim's head) would not be present. The latter point is disingenuous, because Ernsting (1963) did not comment at all on physical comfort or lack thereof.

In case if those 3 men had experienced any somewhat significant distress, it would be strange if symptoms like dimness of vision and generalized convulsion were mentioned, but the distress was not. As if dimness of vision were a more important symptom that is worth mentioning, while the distress is just a minor thing. Besides, Copeland et al. don't base their conclusions solely on data from Ernsting. The Copeland's report points to way more explicit evidences regarding the level of comfort:

Perhaps one of the greatest testaments to both the humanity of nitrogen induced hypoxia as well as the ease of administration, is its rapid popularity as a self selected means of suicide. Suicide by hypoxia using an inert gas is the most widely promoted method of human euthanasia by right to die advocates (Howard, M.O. et. al., 2011, P. 61).

The trend toward using an "exit bag" filled with an inert gas such as nitrogen or helium likely started with a publication of Final Exit: The Practicalities of Self Deliverance and Assisted Suicide for the Dying. The authors of the publication sought to identify methods of death that were swift, simple, painless, failure proof, inexpensive, non disfiguring and did not require a physician's assistance or prescription (Howard, M.O. et. al., 2011. p 61).

...

Reports of deaths observed via this method suggest that it is painless. Jim Chastain, Ph.D. President of the Final Exit Network of Florida described the process this way: In the several events I have observed the person breathes the odorless, tasteless helium deeply about three or four times and then is unconscious, no gagging or gasping. Death follows in 4-5 minutes. A peaceful process.

Derek Humphrey, current chair of the Final Exit advisory board is quoted as saying:

In the approximate 300 cases which have been reported to me there has never been mention of choking or gagging. When I witnessed the helium death of a friend of mine it could not have been more peaceful (Final Exit, 2010).​

Why didn't this cited text deserve any comments from David C Poole et al.? Maybe because it would be inconvenient to address in their propaganda against inert gas asphyxiation?

More importantly, those physiologists among us who have studied the effects of breathing nitrogen anoxia know that it is an intensely disturbing and discomforting experience.

"Know" from where? A serious PubMed article should have mentioned at least one actual experiment with description of the relevant symptoms from the subject(s) undergoing inert gas asphyxiation, because just "knowing" is a level of yellow journalism.

Rather than becoming unconscious within a few breaths and dying within 1 min as stated in the Copeland Report, Smith would have been expected to show signs of severe discomfort and distress with intolerable air hunger for ∼1 min and dying within 5–6 min had he been switched to 100% nitrogen in his mask. Although the exact timing is dependent, in part, upon his breathing pattern and the rate of decreased brain O2 supply and metabolism, the eyewitness reports that claim otherwise raise the possibility that the inspired gas was not pure nitrogen, either because the gas cylinder supplying nitrogen did not contain 100% nitrogen or because leaks in the system permitted the entry of O2.

Another very probable reason: he resisted and held his breath as long as he could, which resulted in hypercapnia, causing discomfort. Comfortable euthanasia with the given method needs some cooperation between the subject to be killed and the staff. If the subject doesn't want to cooperate, then he can experience some significantly unpleasant sensations, and he becomes responsible for his distress.

Also I don't get where that "dying within 1 min" comes from. The actual text of the report suggests a different estimation:

Most electrochemical brain activity should cease shortly after loss of consciousness, and the heart rate will begin to increase to varying degrees until it stops beating 3 to 4 minutes later.​

Note that cardiac arrest is not death yet.


This one doesn't offer direct evidences of distress from inert gas asphyxiation either, just vague speculations around air hunger in general.
Yes, i also saw some of the discrepancies.But, why would a researcher do this , i mean he will lose the credibility if he argues the widely known effect of inert gases.
 
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Yes, i also saw some of the discrepancies.But, why would a researcher do this , i mean he will lose the credibility if he argues the widely known effect of inert gases.
I don't think that they're concerned about the credibility; their rhetoric looks very similar to the pro-lifer's, and presenting execution as "inhumane" in any possible ways is one of the key goals pursued in the game played by people with this kind of mindset.

The role of peripheral chemoreceptors is indeed often overlooked (I've seen lots of comments on this forum, Reddit, Youtube, and WPD, stating that humans are sensitive to high carbon dioxide levels but not low oxygen levels, and I also thought so till some moment), so learning about it from some less biased sources would be useful anyway. Testing the effects on yourself also helps.
 
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If one were to try out inert gas via a balloon for example, would your breathing continue after LoC?
Most likely, yes.

Inhaling helium from a balloon isn't likely to cause major health issues or kill you, but it's not impossible. There have been news reports of some folks, particularly young children, dying from asphyxiation after inhaling helium from a balloon.


For example, nitrous oxide is one of the most frequently recreationally used asphyxiants, commonly inhaled from balloons, and deaths from it are relatively rare:


3.8. Nitrous oxide can be inhaled using a face mask, balloon, plastic bag or releasing the gas into an enclosed space.

4.3. Deaths associated with the use of nitrous oxide occur due to secondary effects, rather than the direct toxic effect of the gas (EMCDDA, 2022). Reported causes of death include acute asphyxiation due to hypoxia, or, less commonly, sudden cardiac arrhythmia (Garakani et al., 2016). Deaths caused by hypoxia may occur when nitrous oxide is used in confined spaces, such as in a car or when using a face mask or plastic bag over the head (EMCDDA, 2022).



Note how inhalation from a balloon is listed among the possible ways of use, but not listed among the ways that could likely cause death.

How long does hypoxia take to stop breathing?
Some data is mentioned in the documents referenced in this post.
And have there been cases of breathing being shut down instantly after LoC?
I don't know. If such cases exist, they are exceptionally rare (considering low overall mortality from recreational use of helium and nitrous oxide).
 
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