Pro-life

[motel rooms]

Every group needs an enemy. In this case it's 'pro lifers ' or 'normies '

They outnumber us by far, so they are probably the ones who need us as an enemy/scapegoat...

 

[Midgardsorm]

They outnumber us by far, so they are probably the ones who need us as an enemy/scapegoat...

I once said to a friend that there are people with lives so boring that they feel the need to make enemies, just to have a super drama in their lives. ^^

 

[Fragile]

I believe in freedom and absolute body autonomy, and I completely disagree with you on some issues that you brought, like restricting drugs that can be used for this purpose, or that every life has inherent value.

But I highly appreciate that you are carrying this discussion in a civil way without falling for provocation and offended mentality. It's such a rarity to see this happen with dissenting points of view on this forum.

Your perspective is very interesting, definitely a nuanced point of view that clashes with the meta-mentality of this place, but valid nonetheless.

 

[FuneralCry]

The way I see it, we did not ask to be here so we have no obligations to stay alive. I see suicide as a personal decision, as only we are experiencing what we are going through so we should be the one to make the choice, rather than society dictating we must live against our wishes. I see the right to die as important.

 

[WatermelonMel]

Some things can't change, like mental disabilities. I despise the prolifers that think any situation can improve with time.

 

[Sisyphus]

I believe in freedom and absolute body autonomy, and I completely disagree with you on some issues that you brought, like restricting drugs that can be used for this purpose, or that every life has inherent value.

But I highly appreciate that you are carrying this discussion in a civil way without falling for provocation and offended mentality. It's such a rarity to see this happen with dissenting points of view on this forum.

Your perspective is very interesting, definitely a nuanced point of view that clashes with the meta-mentality of this place, but valid nonetheless.

I definitely can understand a pro choice point of view. I think it's true what somebody said, that I am not completely pro choice but also not truly pro life. What I am now understanding is that there is another viewpoint, just as strong as an extreme pro life view, but the opposite conclusion, called promortalist. It's interesting to me to learn about stuff life this.

I've been lambasted by some in this thread as a stereotypical pro-life proponent, but it doesn't really bother me because I understand the desire to attack a perceived enemy, especially if you are pain.

I will say again that I am also in pain, or else I wouldn't be here looking for suicide methods, I would be out there "living life to the fullest" or whatever it is pro life people do. My life is pretty limited as it is right now. Metaphorically, I just roll this boulder up this hill, only to see it roll down again after, and I have to live this same pointless and painful life again tomorrow. I am not happy to wake up, but until it gets worse, I will not CTB. It's a last resort for me, because I do think life has something good in it. I may come to regret living, and I may wish I had CTB when I had the chance, but then again my health may improve and I may enjoy life again.

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

I am for people having the choice, and I do think that everybody has the choice. I had the choice to buy my rope. When I think about something like N, something that easy, quick, and alluring, it occurs to me that it probably is best to not have it widely available on every street corner.

Not everything has to be completely restricted or completely permitted. Again, not black and white, it's gray. Surely, you can understand it. Honestly don't think it is too hard to understand.

Maybe I'm just doing a poor job explaining it, or else people are not used to a middle way.

Really realistically and truthfully your philosophy means nothing to anyone else. It only pertains to you.

 

[Sisyphus]

Really realistically and truthfully your philosophy means nothing to anyone else. It only pertains to you.

Why does my philosophy mean nothing? Obviously, there are people here that think it means something, or else they would not even post about it in this thread. I would have been ignored if it meant nothing.

Do you mean I am only thinking of myself with this philosophy? People have said that in this thread, but I also think about those left behind when somebody committed suicide. Their suffering has to be balanced with the suffering of the person "forced to live" by the inability to get an easy method. Our choices do not exist in a vacuum. I can't be completely for a pro choice point of view if it would increase suffering like this, by creating a grieving family, but I also can't be completely pro life becuase it would be forcing a person to suffer by continuing to live. Therefore, I have to take some sort of middle path.

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

Why does my philosophy mean nothing? Obviously, there are people here that think it means something, or else they would not even post about it in this thread. I would have been ignored if it meant nothing.

Do you mean I am only thinking of myself with this philosophy? People have said that in this thread, but I also think about those left behind when somebody committed suicide. Their suffering has to be balanced with the suffering of the person "forced to live" by the inability to get an easy method. Our choices do not exist in a vacuum. I can't be completely for a pro choice point of view if it would increase suffering like this, by creating a grieving family, but I also can't be completely pro life becuase it would be forcing a person to suffer by continuing to live. Therefore, I have to take some sort of middle path.

You're an online presense here....no one knows you. Your beliefs are just your own. People can agree or disagree. People enjoy a philosophical debate. No one's beliefs mean anything except to one's own self. People desire to agree...so will question what you are saying and thinking...but this is just entertainment. Your philosophy means absolutely nothing to me or really anyone...it's just banter. Whatever someone chooses for whatever reason is their perogative.

No one cares at the end of the day. It's only what you think that matter to you. I'm not trying to be rude...I am just saying that anyone's philosophy is just their own. Others can agree or disagree but these are just thoughts...and thoughts don't really matter much.

 

[checkouttime]

pro life people mock suicidal people rejoice in a person feeling pain whilst attempting to CTB, they set up fake profiles and try to scare other members and increase peoples anxiety or post misinformation. they openly invite nonces to be part of their group (one used to be a member here) they do all this while pretending they want o help members( do they really no t understand how fucking stupid that sounds lol). they really do think they are cleverer than members here and that everyone on this site is stupid.

who the fuck are they to get involved in a random strangers business, they can't even look after their own kids so i sure as hell wouldn't trust them to help other people. they should of made more effort to save their own relatives rather than mother a load of strangers who don't want their 'help'.

people join this site out of choice and no1 is forced to. people can search whatever they want and decide to do whatever they want to. people make out like as if people have a gun held to their heads to search and buy stuff. they will say oh they aren't thinking right/ well i'm pretty sure you have to have some sort of brain to search and find the information( especially given how much BS post and fake information are posted) they then have to pay using bitcoin(if that a choice they make and it would take effort to learn to). a person that can do all that knows exactly what they are doing

I agree that it is not up to me and it shouldn't be up to me. For that reason I would be pro choice. I would also be pro life in the sense that I am more in support of people living than committing suicide. I don't think these two positions are in opposition. My overall position is that I would rather see somebody live and thrive than commit suicide, but I am in favor of them having a choice to end it if they are in unbearable torture.

i'm pretty sure most people on this forum would absolutely love all the other members to not commit suicide, me included . i'm not naive enough to think that i can help everyone though and understand how others feel. as you can never truly understand how another human being feels, you may be able to relate to another person but actually knowing how another person feels is impossible. I wouldn't just choose to help one person though either, as that is not fair on all the other people and is probably exactly why some members have ended up here when....people deciding who ,when and what to help in whatever circumstances.

In the real world people who don't mind their own business and get involved in things that doesn't concern them..usually will get a slap. so its the same for pro-lifers and why they are thought of so badly, who makes them fucking god and think they can save everyone? just so they can look good to their mates on FB or whatever. if they were that good at what they do they wouldn't have dead friends or relatives...thats makes for a pretty shit CV for me.

For a start, because it allows us to experience things that non existence would not allow us to experience. Life would be awfully dull never experiencing anything, don't you think?

Why would you ever stay alive if death was so much better? And how would you ever know if it was better?

I'm sure alot of member really want to stay alive to experience even MORE pain and suffering than they already have, sounds like a great idea (exactly what the pro-lifers want). I'm sure all the people that have been raped or molested etc really wanted that 'experience'.

I would think that a person who was "pro-death" as I called it, would not even be alive to type to me. Why would you ever stay alive if death was so much better? And how would you ever know if it was better?

every genuine suicidal person knows its not as easy as just flicking a switch for a person to CTB. it usually takes a person to reach a certain stage in being depressedor for a certain thing to happen to them, some members may not be physically well enough to CTB themselves. there are loads of reasons why someone can still be alive even if they want to CTB. i mean the pro lifers try to make it harder getting things banned etc aswell. i guarantee if every member on this site was given access to N or was able to goto a assisted suicide clinic there would be alot less members.

 

[Sisyphus]

You're an online character here....no one knows you. Your beliefs are just your own. People can agree or disagree. People enjoy a philosophical debate. No one's beliefs mean anything except to one's own self. People desire to agree...so will question what you are saying and thinking...but this is just entertainment. Your philosophy means absolutely nothing to me or really anyone...it's just banter. Whatever someone chooses for whatever reason is their perogative.

No one cares at the end of the day. It's only what you think that matters to you. I'm not trying to be rude...I am just saying that anyone's philosophy is just their own. Others can agree or disagree but these are just thoughts...and thoughts don't really matter much.

These thoughts seem to be destined to create a division between people, a separation. Everybody is an island unto himself, and your thoughts are only your own. Nobody cares.

I beleive exactly in the opposite, a conected point of view. In actuality, everything you do is interconnected to the rest of the world and you are not separate in any way. Any perceived separation in your life is only because of the mind's habit of conceptualizing the world. My philosophy would be shared by some people and it would be reviled by others, but it would alway be impactful in some way because of a connectedness.

pro life people mock suicidal people rejoice in a person feeling pain whilst attempting to CTB, they set up fake profiles and try to scare other members and increase peoples anxiety or post misinformation. they openly invite nonces to be part of their group (one used to be a member here) they do all this while pretending they want o help members( do they really no t understand how fucking stupid that sounds lol). they really do think they are cleverer than members here and that everyone on this site is stupid.

who the fuck are they to get involved in a random strangers business, they can't even look after their own kids so i sure as hell wouldn't trust them to help other people. they should of made more effort to save their own relatives rather than mother a load of strangers who don't want their 'help'.

people join this site out of choice and no1 is forced to. people can search whatever they want and decide to do whatever they want to. people make out like as if people have a gun held to their heads to search and buy stuff. they will say oh they aren't thinking right/ well i'm pretty sure you have to have some sort of brain to search and find the information( especially given how much BS post and fake information are posted) they then have to pay using bitcoin(if that a choice they make and it would take effort to learn to). a person that can do all that knows exactly what they are doing

I think it's cruel to mock people that are already suffering. Ultimately, I think it is a lack of understanding on their part that causes pro life people to butt into the affairs of suicidal people. If your life has been great, then you can only imagine a suicidal person must be stupid or deluded. I think everybody suffers from this lack of understanding though, myself included.

 

[Deleted member 8579]

People have said that in this thread, but I also think about those left behind when somebody committed suicide. Their suffering has to be balanced with the suffering of the person "forced to live" by the inability to get an easy method. Our choices do not exist in a vacuum. I can't be completely for a pro choice point of view if it would increase suffering like this, by creating a grieving family, but I also can't be completely pro life becuase it would be forcing a person to suffer by continuing to live.

The argument "suicide must be regulated because it hurts those left behind" is an awfully weak one.

Nothing hinders me from abruptly cutting off all contact with my family, moving to another country and leaving no address. I could simply disappear and vanish from their lives completely, which would be akin to dying. There is no law prohibiting this, and no one in their right mind would advocate such a law.

Nothing hinders me from entering the next liquor store and drinking myself into a stupor until I see pink elephants. Alcohol addiction has caused great harm and heartbreak to many families, yet it is entirely legal to drink as much as you please (as long as you pay for it).

There are innumerable ways to legally cause emotional harm to people close to you; should all of them be forbidden?
Of course they should not. This begs the question: Why should suicide be singled out?
Certainly not due to its irreversible nature. Alcohol abuse often leads to irreversible damage; if one is hell-bent on cutting all ties with one's family, this can easily be a permanent decision as well.

 

[checkouttime]

Some things can't change, like mental disabilities. I despise the prolifers that think any situation can improve with time.

the pro lifers should try telling that to the people that have been raped/molested or that have terminal illness's etc .....i think they would disagree

 

[UberYeets]

The paper cut analogy doesn't exactly apply to most SS members. I understand that I'm not a charred human torso being forced to live on life support but the subject of suicidality itself is very nuanced and extremely taboo in a society that is practically run by suffering. Life is a gift I get that, but what kind of gift is it if you can't give it away? I've been suicidal for almost 10 years and I've tried everything to 'improve' my life but to no avail. At the end of the day my decision to end things will be a subjective choice that pertains to my own axiology on my perspectives and standards of measuring life. I acknowledge the destruction I'll leave but from my own perspective I'm simply jumping out of a burning building. My personal 'autoethnography' may look as consistent as the pavement in a corrupt middle Eastern country's village and as bafflingly incoherent as Boris Johnson's political career but it remains my own choice between an end to my torment and certain insanity aloft a litany of mounting problems in my life.

 

[Sisyphus]

Nothing hinders me from abruptly cutting off all contact with my family, moving to another country and leaving no address. I could simply disappear and vanish from their lives completely, which would be akin to dying. There is no law prohibiting this, and no one in their right mind would advocate such a law.

The effect of a death, especially a suicide is much greater than simply cutting off contact.

Nothing hinders me from entering the next liquor store and drinking myself into a stupor until I see pink elephants. Alcohol addiction has caused great harm and heartbreak to many families, yet it is entirely legal to drink as much as you please (as long as you pay for it).

Not really a good analogy because alcohol is regulated. We don't allow kids to drink because it would cause harm. There are restrictions on it, although it is not banned. Actually, this example seems more to support my own point.

There are innumerable ways to legally cause emotional harm to people close to you; should all of them be forbidden?

Actually, if you take a complete pro choice point of view I don't see what is stopping you from saying that nothing at all should be regulated. Let's have complete free choice. No laws, no restrictions on guns, drugs, or crime.

 

[checkouttime]

The argument "suicide must be regulated because it hurts those left behind" is an awfully weak one.

Nothing hinders me from abruptly cutting off all contact with my family, moving to another country and leaving no address. I could simply disappear and vanish from their lives completely, which would be akin to dying. There is no law prohibiting this, and no one in their right mind would advocate such a law.

Nothing hinders me from entering the next liquor store and drinking myself into a stupor until I see pink elephants. Alcohol addiction has caused great harm and heartbreak to many families, yet it is entirely legal to drink as much as you please (as long as you pay for it).

There are innumerable ways to legally cause emotional harm to people close to you; should all of them be forbidden?
Of course they should not. This begs the question: Why should suicide be singled out?
Certainly not due to its irreversible nature. Alcohol abuse often leads to irreversible damage; if one is hell-bent on cutting all ties with one's family, this can easily be a permanent decision as well.

I imagine just moving abroad so them aren't near family isn't going to solve many suicidal peoples problems!

I'm also pretty sure people aren't trying to cause emotional harm to others around them (why do people think its all about how they feel) its about ending the suffering THEY are feeling not anything to do with other people.

 

[it's_all_a_game]

No one has the right to tell me, nor anyone else, that their wish to die isn't valid.

As for the "impulsive" excuse, while impulsive suicides do exist, plenty of rational and highly-planned ones exist as well.

 

[Deltawaves74]

Even pro-lifers will give up on you in the end, spend enough time with one and they won't want to see ur suffering anymore. They will avoid you coz they haven't got the balls to admit that there is truth in wanting to end living in hell. They are cowards

 

[motel rooms]

@Sisyphus I'd like to read your response to what I & @BottomlessPit said about life not having inherent value

Yes, I do assume that life has value, but not from a religious perspective. Why would I say that it has value? For a start, because it allows us to experience things that non existence would not allow us to experience. Life would be awfully dull never experiencing anything, don't you think?

Yes, life allows beings like me to experience magical things like being raped & beaten by my own father for ten years. Forgive me for not thinking that my life has value. I don't have a problem with anyone believing that their life has immense value, but please don't claim that life in general / every life has inherent value

--------------------------

Why would I say that life has value? For a start, because it allows us to experience things that non existence would not allow us to experience.

That is indeed true. But I don't think that life can derive value from that because 1) the nonexistent don't have the ability to mourn their lack of phenomenological experience, since that would require them to exist in the first place. If all life died out tomorrow, no one could find any fault in that, since everyone would be dead.
2) You don't outright say it, but when you say "experience" you probably think of all the nice and good things, like sunsets and pizza. But this argument can be turned around to say that life enables us to experience all the nasty and bad things, like anxiety, sadness, physical pain, rape, abuse, trauma, etc. And even if you didn't mean pleasurable experiences, then I wonder how experience itself, regardless of the contents of consciousness, can be said to have value, outside of subjective preference.

 

[checkouttime]

@Sisyphus I'd like to read your response to what I & @BottomlessPit said about life not having inherent value





--------------------------

I think this is the problem everyone is different, even if you can relate to what someone else feels/has experienced it still doesn't mean you know how they feel. every single person reacts different to each circumstance.

e.g for example

it was mentioned that a person breaking up with their BF commits suicide. thats person reacting to a certain circumstance and someone can't understand why they would do it. thats cause they don't know how that person was feeling as its impossible. each human is unique, even identical twins have different personalities etc!!

 

[Sisyphus]

@Sisyphus I'd like to read your response to what I & @BottomlessPit said about life not having inherent value





--------------------------

That was a little bit of a joke response on my part to be honest. I haven't really carved out a philosophy when it come to life having or not having value. I think most people would assume it does in fact have value. You guys were correct though in that I do assume that. You guys have a philosophy when it comes to this matter, and you obviously have spent some time thinking it through. I haven't really thought much about it before this thread, and I don't say you are wrong. You can decide if that view seems true to you, or it is helpful for your life, or your death.

It's interesting to me, but I am not against it, per se. Whatever works for you. I just don't think it would work for me because I am still trying to live.

 

[Deleted member 8579]

The effect of a death, especially a suicide is much greater than simply cutting off contact.

How so? If I leave without telling anyone and never contact them anymore, how is that any different from departing this life?

Not really a good analogy because alcohol is regulated. We don't allow kids to drink because it would cause harm. There are restrictions on it, although it is not banned. Actually, this example seems more to support my own point.

The only regulations alcohol is subjected to are quality standards and the age limit you mentioned. Apart from that you can consume as much as you like and damage yourself (and by extension your family and friends) to your hearts content in the process. It does not support your point at all, unless you are a proponent of making professionally administered euthanasia available for anyone over the age of 18.

Actually, if you take a complete pro choice point of view I don't see what is stopping you from saying that nothing at all should be regulated. Let's have complete free choice. No laws, no restrictions on guns, drugs, or crime.

This has nothing to do with the argument at hand.

 

[checkouttime]

How so? If I leave without telling anyone and never contact them anymore, how is that any different from departing this life?

I imagine alot of people wish it were that easy. it isn't going to vanish away a person being raped/molested or terminally ill or even mentally ill. I mean not everyone who wants to CTB will even have people who care about them aswell (pro lifers they make an effort afterwards)

That was a little bit of a joke response on my part to be honest. I haven't really carved out a philosophy when it come to life having or not having value. I think most people would assume it does in fact have value. You guys were correct though in that I do assume that. You guys have a philosophy when it comes to this matter, and you obviously have spent some time thinking it through. I haven't really thought much about it before this thread, and I don't say you are wrong. You can decide if that view seems true to you, or it is helpful for your life, or your death.

It's interesting to me, but I am not against it, per se. Whatever works for you. I just don't think it would work for me because I am still trying to live.

I don't think it s fair people should just 'assume' anything personally. i think thats part of the [problem, people just assume they know how others feel because they aren't having to deal with what others do.

I wish you well if you want to live you obviously aren't desperate as other people are.there is a recovery section if you are still trying to live you know? perhaps take a visit there. loads of members have gone there and left to recover, that was their choice aswell, just like others decide to CTB. thats why its a pro choice site people are old enough to take control of what they want in life.

 

[disabledlife]

Sorry in advance for translate errors.

The pro-lifers are often denigrated, mocked because most of the pro-lifers are violent, seek by all means to sabotage any projects of the pro-choices who are in fact also "pro-lifers" but who leave it to everyone to decide of its own end of life, hence the nickname pro-choice. Obviously, all pro-choicers will do everything possible to try to convince someone who wants to leave to maybe stay alive if they are given the means to change their mind without suffering. Moreover, on this forum, there is a "recovery" section dedicated to this.

But, unlike pro-life who seek to imprison everyone in a kind of prison, pro-choice gives all the means so that everyone can choose and prefer the direction of life while leaving the choice to go to quite simply, with help if the person asks for it, without pressure of course.

Anyone can change their mind when at the end of their life, even at the last moment. There are people, in countries that have legalized assisted suicide or active euthanasia, many people who have obtained their assisted suicide or euthanasia, often postpone it, just to enjoy their life a little more, reassured of having this emergency exit door, these people finally die a natural death, a better death, reassured to have had this emergency exit at hand!

In countries that have chosen to make life a prison, people who want to leave, seek in CTB by all means, as quickly as possible, a real escape from prison, sometimes it is a real butcher's shop, for lack of means. worthy! There is even a black market with sometimes fake N's, fake SN's, fake Exit Bag, and so on! Above all, the fact of having to leave faster when you still have the possibility to do so is a real waste because if the emergency exit door was offered, by choice, people could still enjoy their life. The pro-lifes are sort of, sorry to disappoint you, murderers or torturers, by this mess.

I can understand that some pro-lifers act out of fear of seeing their next one go to hell, a fear that is sometimes unreasonable, but other pro-lifes are insupportable lesson givers, who denigrate you, treat you as a coward, that you deserve punishment, that you deserve hell, and so on.

These pro-lifes givers of lessons, with their narcissistic behavior, believing themselves superior to what they call "the weak", push others to CTB, by dint of being reproached, saying to themselves: "what is the point of living, if this life is only made up of reproaches, I am leaving! "

It is not by berating a desperate or suffering person, by imposing his life on him, that this person will want to live, on the contrary!

On the other hand, if we leave the choice to the desperate or suffering person and we try to help him, without putting pressure or stress on him, there is a good chance of convincing him to change his mind in such a way. temporary or permanent.

This is precisely the case with all the countries that have legalized a right to die with dignity, aided by euthanasia or assisted suicide, which leaves the choice to each one to leave or live, at any time!

There is no country, among the countries that have legalized euthanasia or assisted suicide, that has legalized these laws with an obligation to die, otherwise it would cause a scandal and headlines in the world.

 

[Sisyphus]

It does not support your point at all, unless you are a proponent of making professionally administered euthanasia available for anyone over the age of 18.

I do think we should have less limits on this than we do currently, but I don't think it should be completely unrestricted. A fully pro choice viewpoint would lead to situations like children getting euthanasia because their toys were taken away. So you support it then only for people that are over 18?

 

[checkouttime]

On the other hand, if we leave the choice to the desperate or suffering person and we try to help him, without putting pressure or stress on him, there is a good chance of convincing him to change his mind in such a way. temporary or permanent.

I agree that that type of action might actually work to help some people and actually be more accepted. these pro-lifers who set up fake accounts and try to use scare tactics on here, mock people on social media attempting to CTB and wish them to be suffering, middle aged men pretending to be young girls on this site (jeremy the nonce) and setting up groups on social media to look good to their mates and cry fake crocodile tears. how the fuck can them people claim to be pro life.

what they are, are people looking for revenge. you can see that in how they openly mocked a member on here who had spoken to one of their family members before CTB. thats right blame it on everyone else it wasn't there fault was it, maybe if they took more notice in their sons/daughters life they wouldn't be dead now. yet instead they want to hound and harass complete strangers. you saw with jeremy the nonce , he got banned from here and doxxed another member who CTB, how the fuck can these idiots claim to want to help people. they just want to cause harm and suffering in retaliation to their relatives CTB.

I personally can't stand the fact they try to scare, manipulate and mock genuine members on here and provide fake information using fake accounts. I mean just sit back and think about that again, as regardless of what they say thats exactly what they do and its proof in the threads.so they get a taste of their own medicine and boy they don't like it.

what you posted is i imagine a way mental health person would think, rather than sum bitter, twisted relative who has No experience or expertise in mental health whatsoever, wants revenge for their lacking in caring for their relatives. and as far as i can see is just makes everything 10 times worse.

 

[motel rooms]

Whatever works for you. I just don't think it would work for me because I am still trying to live.

It has to work for me, I don't have the ability/luxury to ignore my overwhelmingly negative life experiences. I have no choice but to face the cold, hard facts since I suffer from cPTSD & have frequent flashbacks & nightmares. I suspect you wouldn't consider me "truly hopeless" though. I work, I'm able to make people irl laugh & trick them into believing I'm happy, I'm sexually active. One more thing:

Now, I do support the right of people to committ suicide if they are truly hopeless, but that is probably a small fraction of those who ultimately end up dying by their own hand.

Do you honestly believe that only a small fraction of those who ultimately ctb are "truly hopeless"? You obviously still buy into the myth that most suicides are impulsive. They are not.

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/impulsivity-and-suicide-risk-review-and-clinical-implications

 

[Sisyphus]

Do you honestly believe that only a small fraction of those who ultimately ctb are "truly hopeless"?

Yes, I do beleive that most of those people could be helped, in other words that they are not truly hopeless, if we could get them the help that they deserve. It's stigma against mental illness, in part, that prevents our society from developing effective treatments and getting them to the people that need them.

Interesting stuff that you linked there. I read the article and watched the video. I think that the article does bring into question how impulsivity relates to suicidal behavior.

The video helped me realize that I lack a central component that many people need to CTB, namely the ability to hurt myself. I'm always worrying about my health, so I dont do anything risky.

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

Yes, I do beleive that most of those people could be helped, in other words that they are not truly hopeless, if we could get them the help that they deserve. It's stigma against mental illness, in part, that prevents our society from developing effective treatments and getting them to the people that need them.

Interesting stuff that you linked there. I read the article and watched the video. I think that the article does bring into question how impulsivity relates to suicidal behavior.

The video helped me realize that I lack a central component that many people need to CTB, namely the ability to hurt myself. I'm always worrying about my health, so I dont do anything risky.

So....how can people unemployable with no hope for income be helped? How can someone stuck in an abusive/toxic relationship with no earned income be helped? You're really putting on a pedestal the notion of 'help'. Suicidal people are not all suffering from mental problems. They are evicted, criminalized (felonies that don't disappear and cause unemployablity) people with failed careers, people working jobs with no retirement benefits....

Many people get diagnosed mentally ill when in fact their lives suck due to poverty and no upward mobility. Many people taking meds have truly shitty stuck lives...financial stress is a HUGE factor for many suicidal people.

Again it doesn't really matter what people think, but it sounds like you have bought into the common misconception and judgment that it takes someone mental to want to/or actually kill themselves. This is not true. If general needs are not met (food, shelter, companionship) people feel bad and want it to end.

People kills themselves for a plethora of reasons. Very poor, very rich...sick...well and unhappy...

List of suicides in the 21st century - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sisyphus]

So....how can people unemployable with no hope for income be helped? How can someone stuck in an abusive/toxic relationship with no earned income be helped? You're really putting on a pedestal the notion of 'help'. Suicidal people are not all suffering from mental problems. They are evicted, criminalized (felonies that don't disappear and cause unemployablity) people with failed careers, people working jobs with no retirement benefits....

Many people get diagnosed mentally ill when in fact their lives suck due to poverty and no upward mobility. Many people taking meds have truly shitty stuck lives...financial stress is a HUGE factor for many suicidal people.

Again it doesn't really matter what people think, but it sounds like you have bought into the common misconception and judgment that it takes someone mental to want to/or actually kill themselves. This is not true. If general needs are not met (food, shelter, companionship) people feel bad and want it to end.

People kills themselves for a plethora of reasons. Very poor, very rich...sick...well and unhappy...

List of suicides in the 21st century - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I am unemployable with no hope of income due to my health problems. This is the major reason I am considering CTB, to not die starving on the street. I wake up in panic every day about this situation but I also suffer from severe depression. My best case for my life is a life of poverty on disability, if I can even get that, but I have already been denied in the past so don't think so.

I know all about needs not being met becuase I grew up in poverty with not enough food and I was homeless for a time. I feel bad physically and mentally and want it to end before things get worse. You see, I am definitely aware of these issues.