Discussion In your opinion, people who have young child has the right to suicide?

[BrokenByTheSystem]

I think it's an interesting question to bring to a pro-choice forum.

We all probably agree that people should have the right to choose if they want to keep living or not. But how does it work if the person has a child?

As much as I like to say everybody has this right, I think it's a tough situation to leave a young kid in this world carrying this event for its whole life, growing without a father/mother and maybe even blaming itself in the future for its father/mother suicide.

Many people are here exactly because of this, bad decisions made by bad parents. A kid growing up with such a traumatic past could develop many mental problems and end up just killing itself as well in the end.

What's your guys opinion on this subject?

 

[sadgirl1997]

Having children does not make someone less human or erase their suffering. Parents can experience severe depression, trauma, exhaustion, abuse, financial stress, hopelessness, or mental illness. Every living human being on this planet is going to experience suffering of all sorts, including death, of all kinds. It's a personal choice, just as ALL children, which we all were once will have their own choices to make. People are all individuals who process, interpret and interact in different ways. That's why not all drug addicts have drug addict children. Not all people that commit suicide have children that do. And you can apply that to literally everything under the sun.

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

Yes.
If a child is raised by a parent who would rather commit suicide, what kind of childhood can that parent really offer their child? I'm not saying there aren't exceptions. But a childhood spent with a parent who is so distraught that they don't want to be here is more often than not going to be a childhood filled with trauma. So there's going to be serious trauma either way, unless the parent can work through and overcome whatever makes them so suicidal in the first place.

 

[coolcow1289]

I think it's a tough thing to talk about, because you don't want people with young kids who are suffering feel they're totally trapped. Because that can make the problem worse.

But yes, parents have a responsibility to their kid. It's one thing to kill yourself and have it impact your girlfriend or parents or siblings. It's a whole different ballpark to kill yourself when you have a young kid. You really screw them over for life.

 

[BrokenByTheSystem]

Having children does not make someone less human or erase their suffering. Parents can experience severe depression, trauma, exhaustion, abuse, financial stress, hopelessness, or mental illness. Every living human being on this planet is going to experience suffering of all sorts, including death, of all kinds. It's a personal choice, just as ALL children, which we all were once will have their own choices to make. People are all individuals who process, interpret and interact in different ways. That's why not all drug addicts have drug addict children. Not all people that commit suicide have children that do. And you can apply that to literally everything under the sun.

It's all about the weight of responsibility, I want to kill myself, but if by any chance I put a child here, it's not about me anymore, I should make my best to raise the kid no matter how much I'm suffering, I'm accountable by my decisions, ruining my own life by ending it is one thing, but bringing someone from eternal peace and then ruining their existence together, that's cruel. I don't think anyone has the right to do it. You have a child you made a lifetime responsibility, you knew the consequences. You can escape, but that's brutally cruel once you have a choice to not do it (non-natural causes aka suicide).

 

[Forever Sleep]

I struggle, because- my Mum died when I was 3- of natural causes but still- it was devastating. So- most of my sympathies tend to lie with the child- seeing as that's where my experience is.

I suppose it also depends somewhat- on when the parent got into difficulties. If it was before the child was born- I would have to be wondering why they brought the child here to begin with. But then, I do have anti-natalist sentiments in general.

I do tend to feel that we are all burdened by responsibilities towards those around us. I feel trapped here because of the love and concern I have for my Dad. The difference with parents is that they chose to take on those responsibilities. I do personally think that they have taken on a duty of care that they ought to take immensely seriously.

To a further extreme- I actually think my own parents were irresponsible in continuing with the pregnancy when my Mum knew she had cancer. I'd be more on the side of aborting a child, rather than allowing it to be born into a situation where it's caregivers will struggle to look after it. That's assuming the parents believe they may struggle though. I suppose I just think more should be worried about that to begin with. Once the child is born though- I see that as the strongest commitment there is.

I've seen the argument put forward that the parent is struggling so much and feels they are such a toxic influence in their child's life- that the child would be better off without it. I suppose that can be the case in some circumstances but then- the parent has to be incurable for one.

They also need to be certain that the people now in charge of raising that child will give them the love and support they need. How many lives are messed up because of abusive/ neglectful foster care? My troubles began in a big way when my Dad re-married. So, the assumption the child may be better off without it's biological parent isn't always the case.

I just think it's such an awful circumstance to be in. I do feel terrible for the parent but then truthfully- I can't really stop considering the child in this. I suppose if anything, I think the parent should wait until the child is independent. Even then though- it's bound to mess them up. But then, they're probably already messed up. It's why I'm so glad I don't have children. I feel sure we'd both be suffering if I had had them.

 

[yxmux]

It's all about the weight of responsibility, I want to kill myself, but if by any chance I put a child here, it's not about me anymore, I should make my best to raise the kid no matter how much I'm suffering, I'm accountable by my decisions, ruining my own life by ending it is one thing, but bringing someone from eternal peace and then ruining their existence together, that's cruel. I don't think anyone has the right to do it. You have a child you made a lifetime responsibility, you knew the consequences. You can escape, but that's brutally cruel once you have a choice to not do it (non-natural causes aka suicide).

im not a fan of this argument. someone having children does not entail that they were lucid, self-sufficient, consciencious, or grounded enough to come to the decision of having children, or even if they were in control of that decision in the first place. one would have been subject to deception and manipulation by their partner. there are various circumstances in which one would feel certain and optimistic of having a future with children, especially if given support or pressure by their partner or friends. perhaps their partner is evidently well-adjusted with a well-paying job and may appear to foster an ideal environment for having children, despite none of this being certain in the further future. hell, it doesn't even have the partner deceiving you. it could be their friends, their therapist, doctors, the apparent trajectory of life itself. you could argue that he or she was naive, foolish, liable for their actions, and ought to have make a more informed decision. i would argue that its naive to place such a straining moral judgemet on the parents rather than consider and scrutinize the structural issues that lead to the unfortunate circumstances. in my opinion, trying to shoehorn a "qualification" of sorts to ctb, regardless of how many lives we're playing with here, is dishonest at best given the motivation for ctbing usually consists of the same kinds of suffering that most of us in this forum deal with. while i can understand that there are cruel implications of leaving a child to fend for his or herself, or with one less parent, and what that will do to the child's development (and furthermore, doesn't excempt the parent(s) for being an ass, so they be), i understand this as mostly a tragedy and evidence of the unsuitability of the family structure that our cultures seem to hold in great regard. simply put, it is a very shitty situation.

 

[Leidensgenosse]

Technically they have just as much 'right' as anyone else, but is a uniquely unethical choice to make, if you care about that sort of thing. If you go out of your way to drag someone else here despite having every opportunity not to you're responsible for their suffering. Bailing on them and leaving them behind in the prison you sentenced them to isn't defensible, and ignorance is not a sufficient excuse. There are exceptions, not all children are the result of consensual procreation, which are the actual worst case scenarios.

 

[Hystearical]

I also think talking about it in terms of rights doesn't seem to mean much.

Maybe the question should be whether it can be justified.

And I'd say, with a lot of difficulty.

A lot of suicidal parents don't seem to approach the matter very rationally. Or maybe they purposefully lie to themselves.

Having your death be the major theme of a child's upbringing before they developed (potentially) a more fleshed-out and mature understanding of their parent's struggles is a thing unto itself. Though that second part isn't a given at any age, I gladly grant.

In the end of course, people will do what they want and I would certainly understand why anyone would prefer to not deal with agonizing pain.

 

[neurotoxic]

The question is wrong. They have as much right as any of us do right now, because a peaceful death is gatekept from all of us. So I guess I'm more answering the slightly different question of "Is it wrong/cruel to the child" And that would be a yes, in my opinion and experience. I've heard people justify it by saying that the kid would be better off than being raised by a suicidal parent. Nope. That's the same excuse my mom used to neglect and abandon me as a child, while she was still alive. Nope. Abandonment is abandonment. Full stop.

If you have children who depend on you, abandoning them intentionally in any way, whether you are present but neglectful, absent but alive, or dead, will always forever scar your kid. Growing up in the system fucking sucks. Bouncing between homes and not having a parent fucking sucks. I have the sympathy for anyone who is suicidal and raising children, but abandoning your kid in any way contributes to the cycle of neglect that a lot of us know too well. Its not the same situation as a childless person ending their life, that doesn't effect anyone else's ability to survive. Children are dependent on their parents, and abandonment inhibits their survival. At that point, it is bigger than just one persons autonomy.

I'm not saying parents should be prevented from taking their lives, none of us should be. But it is still abandonment and it will still cause a lifetime of pain for the kid. I can't see an ethical difference between that and any other form of abandonment.

 

[maneose]

well the decision in both wanting to have kids and feeling like ctb will be a likely way i might die always have me thinking about this. i think that the only thing that would stop me while my future children grow up is the fact they're still kids, that death is an extremely sad and traumatizing thing which could lead to them developing mental health issues at an early age. plus, i think it would be shitty on my husband if i just dumped all the parental responsibilities on him. i don't think that parent's who've ctb'd while their children are young are selfish, though i think rationally it would be better for the child (or children) to be of age, and hopefully graduated from college (or just settled in a position where they don't need to lean on their parents anymore).

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

 

[eggsausagerice]

as someone who dealt with my mom's manic depression when i was a child that would say she wanted to sell me and my siblings for money and that she wanted to kill herself to not have to work anymore or raise her children, i secretly wanted her to kill herself or divorce my dad so that i wouldn't have to be around her anymore. but they're still married and she hasn't killed herself. my sister and my brother aren't suicidal at all but i seem to be the one my mother's behavior imprinted the most on. i realized how meaningless and flippant my emotions are seen as and that i could kill myself if i didn't develop aspirations or a will to live. i have a hard time making friends and doing schoolwork, so i gave up on both after enough time. i finally researched suicide online in college when i was planning on dropping out.

for all my life i've felt uncomfortable around my mom and made an effort to not be near her because i think all she wants to do is go back to a time where she failed to raise me instead of deal with the reality that i hate her. i don't think that all suicidal parents should kill themselves or tough out their suicidal urges for their child, because both options seem cruel in different ways. i just think that a parent should recognize when they don't want to be a parental figure in the first place instead of force themselves to stay just to neglect their children. making your child's life worse by openly talking about how you regret being a parent makes someone wonder if they deserve to kill themselves for being born, even if that's not the intent behind it.

 

[LittleJem]

My ex's sister found her dad hanging: scarred for life. At the very least, try not to be seen dead by your kids.

I think once someone is past the point of no return, they can't help it. Some people can hold on for their kids, but I know of two stories where the dad did end things. It's nasty, but I don't think it's anyone's fault or even anyone's reponsibility. Suicidal brains have less white matter than normal ones. I don't think people can help it.

 

[neurotoxic]

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And a toxic or absent parent is entirely capable of getting their shit together, statements like this are true to fail to place responsibility on the parents. Shit parents, get your shit together.