Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[GasMonkey]

ye

 

[Vizzy]

After a detailed look into the hood shown in the PPeH I have noticed that it is a "face hood", it fits in the face instead of the neck so it has less inner volume than a "full hood" that fits in the neck. This is very clear in the versions that don't have a skirt:​

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This will increase the flow rate required to meet the demands of inhalation and for effective CO₂ purging. I have seen the pump that is used with that hood and it works at fucking 185 LPM .

I'd avoid that type of hoods an go for "full hoods" that fit in the neck. This type of hood has a higher inner volume that acts as a reservoir bag and they are basically manufactured ExitBags:​

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Or even better, hoods with exhalation valve (EEBD) which require less flow rate in their real applications intended by the manufacturer:​

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This type of hood is like a Non-ReBreather mask + ExitBag hybrid, basically an ExitBag but with faster and more efficient CO₂ purging. The original flow rate recommended by the manufacturer for the EEBD hood used in the escMode EEBD kit is 35 LPM in movement, so 15-25 LPM in static is fine.​

But in ppeh they are using full hood not the face hood

Am I missing something?




Ppeh is using 3M™ Versaflo™


Finally got my eebd hood

 

[shadowfinal311]

After a detailed look into the hood shown in the PPeH I have noticed that it is a "face hood", it fits in the face instead of the neck so it has less inner volume than a "full hood" that fits in the neck. This is very clear in the versions that don't have a skirt:​

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After reading this post, I placed an order for some oxygen tubing and adapters I would need for my alternative hood option.

I decided to do another test run 3M hood but instead, I only put it on to the point where my nose was in the hood, but my mouth was outside of it. The elastic is pretty strong and still clung to my face just fine I felt it still provided a good seal. I ran the flowmeter at 20 LPM as before. I didn't hyperventilate and empty my lungs prior to putting on the 3M hood as my previous test; nor did I take a deep breath when I put the hood on, I just breathed normally.

On this run I had no pain or discomfort, and I didn't hyperventilate when my blood level dropped to 80. The drop this time was faster than before. I pulled the hood off when it hit 80, but it further dropped to 68 before climbing back up.

So from this test run, I believe Vizzy was most likely right about me probably feeling suffocation on my first test run. I didn't feel anything close to this on this run at all.

 

[GasMonkey]

But in ppeh they are using full hood not the face hood

Nope, it's a "face hood" with a "skirt" that covers the neck/shoulders. It fits around the face not in the lower part of the neck like a full hood, so it has less inner volume.​

I decided to do another test

The best way of doing test runs for ExitBags or Hoods is connecting them to an Air cylinder using the same flow rate of the CTB, in fact that's how EXIT International determined the optimal flow rate for ExitBags.​

Finally got my eebd hood

How much did it cost?

 

[dannie58]

Some of of you have built some amazingly elaborate systems. Unfortunately, not all of us are that tech savvy. I can easily obtain the N2 (USA). What regulator/flowmeter and EEBD (or exit bag) would you recommend that's EASY to put together and all necessary adapters are easily obtainable? EscM*** was a good option for those that aren't tech savvy (albeit more expensive).

 

[Vizzy]

Some of of you have built some amazingly elaborate systems. Unfortunately, not all of us are that tech savvy. I can easily obtain the N2 (USA). What regulator/flowmeter and EEBD (or exit bag) would you recommend that's EASY to put together and all necessary adapters are easily obtainable? EscM*** was a good option for those that aren't tech savvy (albeit more expensive).

I will make a clear instructions on how to make nitrogen method using eebd hood in some days

It is very easy even if you don't adapters I will help you with my clear research with the instructions

Right now I am waiting for my stuffs to delivered to write the documents with pictures and clear instructions

Nope, it's a "face hood" with a "skirt" that covers the neck/shoulders. It fits around the face not in the lower part of the neck like a full hood, so it has less inner volume.


The best way of doing test runs for ExitBags or Hoods is connecting them to an Air cylinder using the same flow rate of the CTB, in fact that's how EXIT International determined the optimal flow rate for ExitBags.​

How much did it cost?

200 bucks


Anyone want to buy eebd hood or scba, my seller will ship to anywhere in the world, good service and pretty cheap

This seller is from alibaba but takes really good care of your needs

Including shipping all your products will be cheap to buy compared to USA or Europe

You will get your product within 8 to 15 days, I got mine in 10 days

I paid 100 dollars for my eebd hood shipping was expensive but still not bad, I paid totally for 200 dollars

Seller can communicate good in English, send you pictures, answer all your questions

specifically for eeebd hood this seller is the best!

Anyone wanna buy eebd hood message me

 

[cccmmm777]

So I had a panic attack outside of AirGas this morning… anyone have any tips on how to not feel so nervous when purchasing the tanks in person. I know OP provided a cover story but I get so panicked anytime I lie I feel like something bad is going to happen…

 

[Vizzy]

So I had a panic attack outside of AirGas this morning… anyone have any tips on how to not feel so nervous when purchasing the tanks in person. I know OP provided a cover story but I get so panicked anytime I lie I feel like something bad is going to happen…

Say any of your friends to help, it is just a gas nothing to be scared off

Can you talk with the seller in call?

Easy excuse for buying nitrogen is brewing

 

[Red Desert]

I have this one from Ebay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nitrogen...h=item2a86eff418:g:X58AAOSwjjpbKqxH:rk:2:pf:1

The missing eBay page seemed to me to be that this child wants a CTB too

 

[Vizzy]

The missing eBay page seemed to me to be that this child wants a CTB too

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That person was online 4 years ago lol

 

[Red Desert]

That person was online 4 years ago lol

I hope he got my comment one way or another

 

[Willthishelp?]

The Regulator:

A regulator screws on to the cylinder and does two things: 1) it reduces the pressure in the cylinder to a useable level, otherwise the 2000psi tank pressure would just blow the exit bag off your head as soon as you opened the valve, and 2) it controls the rate of gas flow into the exit bag —specifically, it should release it at 15Lpm, which is the minimum adequate to carry away exhaled CO2 and fool your lungs into believing there's enough air.

The good news is that while gas cylinder sizes are not globally standardized, the cylinder valve threads are —and both N2 and Ar cylinders have the same threads (other gasses have different threads), so a regulator that fits on one cylinder will fit equally well on another.

You don't need to worry about being sure to choose a regulator that will reduce the pressure: they all do that. The flowmeter is the critical element of the regulator for our purposes.

Some regulators come with a "click adjust" flowmeter that is very simple, allowing you to dial in 15Lpm without needing to think about it. To the best of my knowledge, these are medical grade regulators; generally very good quality, but often a bit more expensive. Others here may know more about them, and where to acquire them, than I do.

A typical welding regulator will have two gauges: the tank pressure gauge (unimportant to us) and the flowmeter gauge.

A welding regulator's flowmeter gauge will be marked in either cubic feet per hour (Cfh), Lpm, or both. Some welding systems require a fairly low flow of inert gas, much lower than our necessary 15Lpm, and this low flow is most easily measured in Cfh. If you see a gauge marked only in Cfh, it probably will not work for our purpose. Look at the highest Cfh setting on the flowmeter and do the math, to be certain. If the gauge reads in Lpm, a glance should tell you whether the regulator provides the necessary 15Lpm flow.

Harbor Freight Tools offers a cheap CO2/Ar regulator (it also works for N2) with a flowmeter that shows flow in both Cfh and Lpm and goes high enough for our purposes. This is what I have.

The Hose:

The hose needs to be long enough to reach from the gas cylinder beside you, up into the exit bag on your head. I have found it easiest to lead the hose up my back and into the bag at the very back of my neck. It seems to disrupt the fit of the bag less right there.

Some regulators come with a hose that threads directly into the regulator body. Some regulators come with a hose-barb, onto which a length of soft tubing can be pressed. Some regulators come with neither.

For the first situation, just thread the hose into the regulator, tighten it with a wrench, and it's ready.

(Regardless of what type of threaded fitting is used, you do need to wrench-tighten this fitting: a lot of gas can leak out at this connection. If it is a brass fitting, you should not need teflon tape on the threads; the soft metal deforms enough when tightened to provide an adequately gas-tight connection.)

For the second situation, take the hose-barb to a hardware / home improvement store and purchase tubing that fits onto the barb. Once home from the hardware store, thread the barb into the regulator body, tighten with a wrench, and press the tube onto the barb. It should be a snug fit; if you're worried it's too loose, use a small hose clamp / jubilee clip to secure it in place. If it's a little too tight to get the hose into place, soak the end of the tube in very hot water to soften it and press it onto the barb. I used clear vinyl tubing. Aquarium tubing should work. Surgical tubing may not; I don't know for sure.

For the third situation, you'll need a hose-barb fitting (typically brass) that threads into the regulator body. Take the entire regulator to the hardware store and ask someone to help you fit it with a hose barb. Then proceed as for the second situation.

Cover story: as with purchasing the gas cylinder, you're using N2 for brewing, or Ar for filling partial paint cans. Why Ar? because it's heavier than air and settles down onto the paint surface inside the can. For extra confidence that they won't ask inconvenient questions, you're doing it for your father, or your brother, and you don't know why they want it for their paint locker, they just said to get a hose barb and six feet of tubing…

The Exit Bag:

There are several videos on YouTube detailing construction of exit bags. I strongly recommend watching them. That's how I learned.

The short version of what you want is a turkey roasting bag —available in the supermarket, in with the zip-locks and cling wrap— with an elastic drawcord worked into a turned hem, and a cord-lock to adjust the drawcord's tension.

I used 3/8" elastic cord. I purchased both it and the cord lock at a sewing and crafts store (JoAnn's).

To construct the turned hem you'll need micropore (surgical) tape, available at a pharmacy in the first aid section. It's the right tape to use because it will reliably stick to the material of the bag itself. Sometimes it isn't labeled as "micropore." Ask a clerk if you can't find it.

Cover story: you were asked to re-stock the family first aid kit with micropore tape and you don't recognize any of the brands available.

Using an elastic drawcord is important: it needs to fit snugly around your neck, but not seal tightly. It must still be flexible enough for the flow of inert gas, lightly pressurizing the exit bag, to push past the elastic and flush away the CO2 you're exhaling. Don't use a non-elastic drawcord or do something like duct tape the bag to your neck; you don't want to create a seal, just a restriction.

Can we have contact via pm??

 

[GasMonkey]

Can we have contact via pm??

He's no longer around, his last post was 4 years ago, go figure.

 

[Glandular]

5L@200 is more than enough with high end SCBA gear, right? 10L cylinders are not portable enough for my plans.

 

[GasMonkey]

Yeah that's 1000L uncompressed.

 

[shadowfinal311]

I finally found an US-based EEBD hood seller. Should be coming in within two weeks. In the meantime, did some more practice runs to continue to get comfortable with the whole process. On my last practice run I decided to go for a real trial. I set the flow at 30 LPM, had the 3M hood on my forehead filling with gas, hyperventilated for a minute or so, took a final big exhale, and inserted my whole face in the hood.

I didn't have any issues breathing, no pain or discomfort again, but this time I actually got lightheaded (like I was getting high) and felt tingles. The blood oxygen levels were dropping slower than usual, but I didn't hyperventilate/suffocate/panic this time around. I guess increasing the flow rate and emptying my lungs help purge the CO2 better so I didn't experience that panic.

I'm still choosing to use the EEBD hood over the 3M when it gets here since the EEBD hood is a full mask that wraps around the neck instead of the 3M which only wraps around the face, and the EEBD has the exhalation valve to my CO2 purging a simpler process. At least I know the 3M hood may not be a bad backup.

Oh, and I tested out the sandblasting hood as a possible alternative since it does have an air intake and exhalation valve. It was not viable. Would not recommend.

 

[Das Nichts]

I did blackout tests with both exit bag and scba and you will be unconscious really fucking fast. It's like somebody else is switching the lights off for you.

 

[GasMonkey]

I did blackout tests with both exit bag and scba and you will be unconscious really fucking fast. It's like somebody else is switching the lights off for you.

How much gas did you loss when the mask fell and the LDV started to pump hard in the ambient?

 

[DurkheimsCat]

The EEBD hood I got is really tight around the neck so I can't leave in on my forehead to fill and then pull it down. Is this a necessary step or can I hyperventilate before putting it on, exhale deeply, pull the hood on, and then turn the n2 on and begin breathing?

 

[GasMonkey]

The EEBD hood I got is really tight around the neck so I can't leave in on my forehead to fill and then pull it down.

You can leave it on top of your head without inserting your forehead.

Is this a necessary step or can I hyperventilate before putting it on, exhale deeply, pull the hood on, and then turn the n2 on and begin breathing?

Yeah the pre-fill is necessary. If you hood has exhalation valves you don't need to hyperventilate and exhale before inserting the head, you can just exhale inside.

 

[DurkheimsCat]

You can leave it on top of your head without inserting your forehead.


Yeah the pre-fill is necessary. If you hood has exhalation valves you don't need to hyperventilate and exhale before inserting the head, you can just exhale inside.

this is my hood.

 

[Das Nichts]

How much gas did you loss when the mask fell and the LDV started to pump hard in the ambient?

Initially it was 5 liter at ~ 220 bar, I woke up to ~ 180bar and turned the gas down. Due to fuck up while draining the the gas inside the regulator tubing I'm now at 150 bar.

 

[GasMonkey]

Initially it was 5 liter at ~ 220 bar

It was initially at 220 instead of 200? that's cool.

I woke up to ~ 180bar and turned the gas down.

Wunderkind lost 20 bar in his blackout test, he had a 5L 150bar cylinder.

Due to fuck up while draining the the gas inside the regulator tubing I'm now at 150 bar.

The potency of SCBA regulators is insane, they can pump >400 LPM, you could literally CTB with a sausage between your face and the mask with zero air leaking into the mask . I also lost gas while trying to use the LDV of my main setup on the escMode mask (looks like they aren't compatible) and used gas for purity testing (O₂ and CO₂), mine is at ~188bar now .​

Oh, and I tested out the sandblasting hood as a possible alternative since it does have an air intake and exhalation valve. It was not viable.

Why wasn't it viable?

 

[ztem]

I did blackout tests with both exit bag and scba and you will be unconscious really fucking fast. It's like somebody else is switching the lights off for you

Don't get me wrong,I have no doubt in the method(both classic EB and EB SCBA version).also I'm very familiar with unconscious,I experienced unconscious twice in the past(not with EB method but with intravenous injection and accident)

 

[Vizzy]

Breathe in



Exhale out the carbon dioxide


Eebd air hose



Extension air hose


Ferrule



Hose ferrule crimping tool


My tool

 

[Vizzy]

Water spray bottle



Soap


Professional gas leak detector


Wrench

 

[Das Nichts]

Don't get me wrong,I have no doubt in the method(both classic EB and EB SCBA version).also I'm very familiar with unconscious,I experienced unconscious twice in the past(not with EB method but with intravenous injection and accident)

All good. Just wanted to let people know with the right gas and gear the small details don't matter that much.

 

[Das Nichts]

(In short, this forum is heaven for future people)

Nice choice of words there ;-)

 

[Vizzy]

Oh I just did the testing it was crazy

Before testing oxygen detector



After switching on the nitrogen gas, it went to zero level and it was fast, no one surviving that lol (this happened at 20lpm within 20sec)

 

[Vizzy]

Oh I just did the testing it was crazy

Before testing oxygen detector

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After switching on the nitrogen gas, it went to zero level and it was fast, no one surviving that lol (this happened at 20lpm within 20sec)

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Special thanks to @GasMonkey @Das Nichts @outrider567 for helping me to build my nitrogen gas setup

Y'all are doing godly work, thank you

Can I get some thoughts on the final result?, that would be helpful, thank you