AlreadyGone
Taking it day by day
- Jan 11, 2020
- 917
If I thought life was a gift, I would not be on this forum and trying to end it.
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TAW122
Emissary of the right to die.
- Aug 30, 2018
- 6,963
No I don't. In fact, I see life as an involuntary imposition thrusted onto a non-sentient being turning such a being sentient. In other words, before any of us (or any living thing, human, animal, or plant) are conceived, we simply are and had no say in the matter. We didn't consent to being 'born' or brought into existence in this world. So back to the statement of 'life is a gift', if I were to interpret the meaning of the word 'gift' I would consider that something voluntarily given and that one is free to accept or reject it. Based on this explanation in this subreddit r/TTG, it's just an illogical argument so I wouldn't take that claim as part of an argument.
Well said, and that is why I don't really engage with those kinds of people. I like your analogy of how one's body is essentially a loan by society and the world we live in. It's rather accurate. I feel like religion is essentially a man-made construct to give meaning to life and as some way to cope with meaninglessness of existence as well as a way to gaining dominance over the masses through social compliance and order.
Dimension369963
Member
- May 27, 2020
- 17
In my opinion it's not only not a gift, it's a curse. To know I exist because of a chemical cocktail that went through my parents brains, that the subconscious narcissistic ego of having created a life that never had a choice to be born and was always done so for a selfish reason. Either 1) To create a life is egotistical as you have full control over it and it looks to you as God. 2)To save a failing marriage 3) By accident but then compelled to keep it due to religious beliefs 4) To fill a void in the life of two people.
I was born with a broken clavicle. Most men are also circumcised at birth. We suffer male gentile mutilation and neurologists have now proven with dozens of studies, that a baby which feels pain it should not feel, such as being slapped, yelled at, born with broken bones, shaken, develop differently. A babies brain is a genius. The IQ of babies and children are much higher than adults. This is why children when taught from the moment they have awareness of self vs other around age 3, they can learn 3 languages at once, their neurons are growing and connecting much faster so the greatest pianists, violinists and other orchestra based musicians started when they were 3 or 4 and from 4-10 their minds absorbed a lifetime of musical practice by someone who never played an instrument just starting at 24.
The 24 year old will never be as good as the 3-4 year old if both practiced equally or even if the 24 year old practiced harder.
The point that I'm trying to make is, most of this kind of stuff has been known for decades, but little has focused on those born who suffer pain more than anything else. Their neurological connections are wired differently.
Instead of growing up normal and well adjusted, a baby who was emotionally and physically abused is guaranteed to have some form of mental health issues for life. Their brains were wired for defense instead of curiosity and love.
Imagine the following analogy applies to our lives. Represented in a walk through the field the first step represents our birth and every mile represents 5 years of our life.
You're born, you begin walking a straight line through the field, this is the normal path for a decent life. At 1 years old, you father or mother shakes you because you won't stop crying or hits you, constantly yells at you, pays little attention to you. Walking in the field, you must now divert from the straight path by 3 degrees. At first the changes appear small. A few hundred steps and your a few dozen feet off the path but it's still in view.
Now you're 10, you witness and experience your parents fight every day, you walk on eggshells, your father is always drunk, comes home at 2am drunk waking you up yelling at your mother, you go downstairs and spend an hour breaking up their fight and sleep at school the next day getting sent to the principles office.
Divert that straight path another 3 degrees. You walked a mile now, the path you began on is really far and can't been seen at night anymore, only during cloudy, rainy and sunny days.
You walk another mile, you're 15, you've witnessed violence, aggression, adult roles like worrying about the rent, drop out of high school and get a job.
Until the age of 24, the brain does not stop developing in the Frontal Cortex. This part of the brain is responsible for everything that makes us intelligent and self- aware. Our self-awareness is directly tied to our brain chemistry, our minds, our subconscious and many other things we cannot control.
When that child reaches 24, they will be so far off the path of a diseased free brain, they won't be able to see it in the day, the night, with binoculars or anything. It's gone, forever, and they are lost on a path that contains mental health issues.
Their path is filled with rocks, and holes, dangerous bugs and animals, yet they must continue to walk it day and night. They were not given the choice to stay on the straight path which remains lit with spotlights and protected with fences on both sides.
So from the very start many of us are born having to do everything the person on the straight path does, but we twist our ankles, break our legs, fall down and get cuts, are attacked by poisonous insects and animals and while their road is flat, ours is a never ending steep incline where at any moment we could grab the wrong branch and it snaps (betrayal in life from friends, family, relationship partner, behind our peers in where we think we should be etc) and roll all the way down to the very beginning breaking bones, and getting bruised all along the way down to the start again.
None of us chose to be born, we exist in an endless loop outside of evolution. It was a tragic mistake by evolution to create a species that was forever separated from it.
We have anxiety over the future, depression over the past, the present is a never ending hell that seems absolutely designed to convince us that when we are happy or experiencing pleasure time feels as though it exceeds the speed of light, but when we are suffering, when the pain doesn't stop, physical, emotional, mental it doesn't matter, time slows to a crawl.
This is the kind of creation that exists in a dead end. Nietzsche warned us that sometime in the 21st century when science destroys organized religion that mankind will go through a trial that to this day not a single human has managed to finish.
In order to be capable of any kind of joy or happiness, we would have to forget everything we have been taught by everyone, our parents, our teachers, our religious leaders, our friends, we must start fresh and let go of it all. We must ignore society and create a universe inside ourselves. The rules, the morality, the concepts that exist in all cultures must be erased forever and reformed in our own image by each of us to create an existence where we bring fourth our own meaning and purpose individually and derive happiness from it.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Friedrich Nietzsche
It was either that or he predicted the slow decay of society, filled with violence and rage, as the masses unable to find purpose in their culture or beliefs which they were raised on anymore, cause a soft extinction and put our species down permanently.
Based on what is happening today, it's clear mankind chose the second choice and our suffering is a ratio much higher than our joy. An honest estimate if I had to weight the world's total suffering and pain vs its happiness and joy, my honest ratio would 100:1. 100 painful experiences for every 1 genuinely good experience.
With that kind of world, I believe mankind should be self-sterilized. Only 100 years ago there were less than 2 billion people on this Earth. We're closing in on 7 Billion now. That's 5 Billion lives created to fight 100s of global conflicts, WW1, WW2, Vietnam, North Korea, all the people who died under Stalin 50 million, Mao's Great Purge in China 100 million, Hitler's Germany 20 million.
In Russia, a political prisoner which is just soft speak for anyone who didn't support a government that viewed its people as objects to be used to grow an empire, the prisons has massive vents with fans that stretched over 100 miles north into the Siberian winter where temperatures were regularly -100F and wind chills -180F. This air was blown into the prisons so that each prisoner was always freezing and slowly they would lose fingers and toes to the cold.
In the 20th century alone, over 200 million people died by democide (death by government). There is no amount of joy or happiness that could ever counter the barbarism of our species.
For every person who died, there was on average 6 people that truly loved that person making 1.2 Billion people suffer their entire lives over the slaughter of 200 million people.
My short answer is, not only is life not a gift, no matter how much philosophical thinking I do on the subject, I cannot logically come to any other conclusion than the fact that we are here because Earth itself is a prison in the 3rd dimension and our souls which science has practically proven exist with all the evidence compiled thanks to quantum mechanics and microtubules which are infinite and exist within our brains but leave our bodies upon death only to store all the information we experienced in them and come right back into our brain if we are brought back to life, in a way similar to Schrodinger's Cat. Until you open the box there are 2 suppositional states occurring simultaneously.
It's the same thing with our brains. Our brains also contain two suppositional states. A brain with the microtubules that contain all the information that makes us who we are and is infinite, leaving the body but maintaining cohesion upon death, and returning back to the body as if they never left when we are back alive again by medical science. 2 states at the same time.
So my philosophical theory on life has always been that we are not 3rd dimensional beings, we are much higher, existing in pure energy states and we either chose a baby knowing it's full life before entering it and forgetting once inside the babies brain in order to live a bias free life OR we are higher dimensional beings who have been forced into these 3rd dimensional bodies as a punishment for something we did in our higher forms and the cost of those crimes is a lifetime in a lesser form. I've always felt like I was trapped in this body, like the real me could stretch from one side of the universe to the other, that I am energy incarnated into a prison of matter which prevents me from existing in my true form.
Life is either a test or a punishment in my opinion, either way to me it's hell and I would support everyone choosing to stop having children so we could end this cycle of being born without a choice, suffering, bringing another life into this world that didn't have choice which then suffers and repeats this endless nonsensical circle of pain.
I was born with a broken clavicle. Most men are also circumcised at birth. We suffer male gentile mutilation and neurologists have now proven with dozens of studies, that a baby which feels pain it should not feel, such as being slapped, yelled at, born with broken bones, shaken, develop differently. A babies brain is a genius. The IQ of babies and children are much higher than adults. This is why children when taught from the moment they have awareness of self vs other around age 3, they can learn 3 languages at once, their neurons are growing and connecting much faster so the greatest pianists, violinists and other orchestra based musicians started when they were 3 or 4 and from 4-10 their minds absorbed a lifetime of musical practice by someone who never played an instrument just starting at 24.
The 24 year old will never be as good as the 3-4 year old if both practiced equally or even if the 24 year old practiced harder.
The point that I'm trying to make is, most of this kind of stuff has been known for decades, but little has focused on those born who suffer pain more than anything else. Their neurological connections are wired differently.
Instead of growing up normal and well adjusted, a baby who was emotionally and physically abused is guaranteed to have some form of mental health issues for life. Their brains were wired for defense instead of curiosity and love.
Imagine the following analogy applies to our lives. Represented in a walk through the field the first step represents our birth and every mile represents 5 years of our life.
You're born, you begin walking a straight line through the field, this is the normal path for a decent life. At 1 years old, you father or mother shakes you because you won't stop crying or hits you, constantly yells at you, pays little attention to you. Walking in the field, you must now divert from the straight path by 3 degrees. At first the changes appear small. A few hundred steps and your a few dozen feet off the path but it's still in view.
Now you're 10, you witness and experience your parents fight every day, you walk on eggshells, your father is always drunk, comes home at 2am drunk waking you up yelling at your mother, you go downstairs and spend an hour breaking up their fight and sleep at school the next day getting sent to the principles office.
Divert that straight path another 3 degrees. You walked a mile now, the path you began on is really far and can't been seen at night anymore, only during cloudy, rainy and sunny days.
You walk another mile, you're 15, you've witnessed violence, aggression, adult roles like worrying about the rent, drop out of high school and get a job.
Until the age of 24, the brain does not stop developing in the Frontal Cortex. This part of the brain is responsible for everything that makes us intelligent and self- aware. Our self-awareness is directly tied to our brain chemistry, our minds, our subconscious and many other things we cannot control.
When that child reaches 24, they will be so far off the path of a diseased free brain, they won't be able to see it in the day, the night, with binoculars or anything. It's gone, forever, and they are lost on a path that contains mental health issues.
Their path is filled with rocks, and holes, dangerous bugs and animals, yet they must continue to walk it day and night. They were not given the choice to stay on the straight path which remains lit with spotlights and protected with fences on both sides.
So from the very start many of us are born having to do everything the person on the straight path does, but we twist our ankles, break our legs, fall down and get cuts, are attacked by poisonous insects and animals and while their road is flat, ours is a never ending steep incline where at any moment we could grab the wrong branch and it snaps (betrayal in life from friends, family, relationship partner, behind our peers in where we think we should be etc) and roll all the way down to the very beginning breaking bones, and getting bruised all along the way down to the start again.
None of us chose to be born, we exist in an endless loop outside of evolution. It was a tragic mistake by evolution to create a species that was forever separated from it.
We have anxiety over the future, depression over the past, the present is a never ending hell that seems absolutely designed to convince us that when we are happy or experiencing pleasure time feels as though it exceeds the speed of light, but when we are suffering, when the pain doesn't stop, physical, emotional, mental it doesn't matter, time slows to a crawl.
This is the kind of creation that exists in a dead end. Nietzsche warned us that sometime in the 21st century when science destroys organized religion that mankind will go through a trial that to this day not a single human has managed to finish.
In order to be capable of any kind of joy or happiness, we would have to forget everything we have been taught by everyone, our parents, our teachers, our religious leaders, our friends, we must start fresh and let go of it all. We must ignore society and create a universe inside ourselves. The rules, the morality, the concepts that exist in all cultures must be erased forever and reformed in our own image by each of us to create an existence where we bring fourth our own meaning and purpose individually and derive happiness from it.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Friedrich Nietzsche
It was either that or he predicted the slow decay of society, filled with violence and rage, as the masses unable to find purpose in their culture or beliefs which they were raised on anymore, cause a soft extinction and put our species down permanently.
Based on what is happening today, it's clear mankind chose the second choice and our suffering is a ratio much higher than our joy. An honest estimate if I had to weight the world's total suffering and pain vs its happiness and joy, my honest ratio would 100:1. 100 painful experiences for every 1 genuinely good experience.
With that kind of world, I believe mankind should be self-sterilized. Only 100 years ago there were less than 2 billion people on this Earth. We're closing in on 7 Billion now. That's 5 Billion lives created to fight 100s of global conflicts, WW1, WW2, Vietnam, North Korea, all the people who died under Stalin 50 million, Mao's Great Purge in China 100 million, Hitler's Germany 20 million.
In Russia, a political prisoner which is just soft speak for anyone who didn't support a government that viewed its people as objects to be used to grow an empire, the prisons has massive vents with fans that stretched over 100 miles north into the Siberian winter where temperatures were regularly -100F and wind chills -180F. This air was blown into the prisons so that each prisoner was always freezing and slowly they would lose fingers and toes to the cold.
In the 20th century alone, over 200 million people died by democide (death by government). There is no amount of joy or happiness that could ever counter the barbarism of our species.
For every person who died, there was on average 6 people that truly loved that person making 1.2 Billion people suffer their entire lives over the slaughter of 200 million people.
My short answer is, not only is life not a gift, no matter how much philosophical thinking I do on the subject, I cannot logically come to any other conclusion than the fact that we are here because Earth itself is a prison in the 3rd dimension and our souls which science has practically proven exist with all the evidence compiled thanks to quantum mechanics and microtubules which are infinite and exist within our brains but leave our bodies upon death only to store all the information we experienced in them and come right back into our brain if we are brought back to life, in a way similar to Schrodinger's Cat. Until you open the box there are 2 suppositional states occurring simultaneously.
It's the same thing with our brains. Our brains also contain two suppositional states. A brain with the microtubules that contain all the information that makes us who we are and is infinite, leaving the body but maintaining cohesion upon death, and returning back to the body as if they never left when we are back alive again by medical science. 2 states at the same time.
So my philosophical theory on life has always been that we are not 3rd dimensional beings, we are much higher, existing in pure energy states and we either chose a baby knowing it's full life before entering it and forgetting once inside the babies brain in order to live a bias free life OR we are higher dimensional beings who have been forced into these 3rd dimensional bodies as a punishment for something we did in our higher forms and the cost of those crimes is a lifetime in a lesser form. I've always felt like I was trapped in this body, like the real me could stretch from one side of the universe to the other, that I am energy incarnated into a prison of matter which prevents me from existing in my true form.
Life is either a test or a punishment in my opinion, either way to me it's hell and I would support everyone choosing to stop having children so we could end this cycle of being born without a choice, suffering, bringing another life into this world that didn't have choice which then suffers and repeats this endless nonsensical circle of pain.
HadesOfPurple
Rummy odd-eyed cat
- May 19, 2020
- 14
I believe there are few people who can say there were no moments at all in their life when they thought they were glad to be there. Alas, a few happy moments do not make for decent a quality of life in the long run. But yes, it's pretty much a lottery. It's like a package you receive..some actually get gifts, others get bombs wrapped as gifts. If you've no chance to improve your lot: you're poor, lonely, physically/mentally ill, ignored by institutions, etc., then life is hardly a gift, or perhaps it is a gift you were saving for a rainy day to open, only to do so and to find the gift was sweet caramel that's melted, and you should have opened it sooner. I sometimes feel that way--had I taken chances earlier in life, it might have got me somewhere other than to a dead end. It didn't always seem to bleak to me, not because the world's changed; because my worldview's changed. I no longer trust people, have lost all faith in the human race, etc. I no longer feel human...or perhaps I never really did, but now least of all.
Is life a gift? Who's given you this supposed gift? Your parents? The universe? Whoever it was, they seem awfully like Greeks to me, and you know you'd best beware of Greeks bearing gifts...
I wouldn't say life is a gift. It's a gift for the lucky few who are born to wealthy and well-connected parents( Not just them. Non-wealthy persons preceive life as a gift as well, for Cosmo told them so, and they never question anything. They are supposed to work a shit job, and they do so. They are supposed to be in a long-term monogamous relationships and give birth to future tax-payers, and they do so obediently. They never ask themselves about the meaning of life, about ''is this the only way the world can be?'', never ask themselves ''is this really what I want?''. They just follow the script and go from day to day, and then they die. I believe people who don't question authority and the world as it is believe life is a gift for the same reason: because they read it in a women's magazine and so it must be true). Whatever problems they might have, money can cure (mostly). To wit, they perceive their lives as a gift phenomenologically, I'm sure. As for the rest of us, who don't amount to much in the eyes of the world's throngs? I believe life is not so much a gift as it is a seed of a plant. We water it, we provide sunshine....it finally grows into a little plant. We also see the person to our left and the one to our right do this and grow a small plant. Then we try to have it develop into a mighty tree with branches and leaves, and blooms, and everything. We water it, we provide sunshine....but somehow, both our neighbours manage to grow mighty trees with branches and leaves, and blooms, while our plant just withers away. We ask ourselves ''why did their plants become mighty trees, while mine's withered away? I did the same things they did!?' And there's no answer. Your plant has simply wilted and withered, while theirs have grown into mighty trees. Water and sunshine worked for them, but not for you, and the plant was exactly the same. What I mean to say's this: every life's got a potential to be a gift, but in the end, some were real gifts, while others were bombs wrapped as gifts; potential trees that somehow just did not become pukka trees. Mine is not a gift, but a burden, but I do see the others' lives as being gifts to me, especially the lives of pets. That I was able to share in their life, that is a gift to me.
Wow, what a ramble. I hope I made some sense at all (mind: you think you're clever and poetic, but you're really just a pretentious knob that makes sense to nobody Me: but..... mind: Shut up, you.)
Is life a gift? Who's given you this supposed gift? Your parents? The universe? Whoever it was, they seem awfully like Greeks to me, and you know you'd best beware of Greeks bearing gifts...
I wouldn't say life is a gift. It's a gift for the lucky few who are born to wealthy and well-connected parents( Not just them. Non-wealthy persons preceive life as a gift as well, for Cosmo told them so, and they never question anything. They are supposed to work a shit job, and they do so. They are supposed to be in a long-term monogamous relationships and give birth to future tax-payers, and they do so obediently. They never ask themselves about the meaning of life, about ''is this the only way the world can be?'', never ask themselves ''is this really what I want?''. They just follow the script and go from day to day, and then they die. I believe people who don't question authority and the world as it is believe life is a gift for the same reason: because they read it in a women's magazine and so it must be true). Whatever problems they might have, money can cure (mostly). To wit, they perceive their lives as a gift phenomenologically, I'm sure. As for the rest of us, who don't amount to much in the eyes of the world's throngs? I believe life is not so much a gift as it is a seed of a plant. We water it, we provide sunshine....it finally grows into a little plant. We also see the person to our left and the one to our right do this and grow a small plant. Then we try to have it develop into a mighty tree with branches and leaves, and blooms, and everything. We water it, we provide sunshine....but somehow, both our neighbours manage to grow mighty trees with branches and leaves, and blooms, while our plant just withers away. We ask ourselves ''why did their plants become mighty trees, while mine's withered away? I did the same things they did!?' And there's no answer. Your plant has simply wilted and withered, while theirs have grown into mighty trees. Water and sunshine worked for them, but not for you, and the plant was exactly the same. What I mean to say's this: every life's got a potential to be a gift, but in the end, some were real gifts, while others were bombs wrapped as gifts; potential trees that somehow just did not become pukka trees. Mine is not a gift, but a burden, but I do see the others' lives as being gifts to me, especially the lives of pets. That I was able to share in their life, that is a gift to me.
Wow, what a ramble. I hope I made some sense at all (mind: you think you're clever and poetic, but you're really just a pretentious knob that makes sense to nobody Me: but..... mind: Shut up, you.)
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Green Destiny
Life isn't worth the trouble.
- Nov 16, 2019
- 877
This life is a curse not a gift filled with terrible suffering and selfish evil people. And yet people will say it's a gift to justify bringing more unfortunate people into this cruel dark world. All you need to do is look out your window to see how fucked up life is and yet people think it's a grand old idea to have children and subject them to a life of cruel existence.
Life is anything but free. The amount of time, effort and money to keep it going is quite substantial. Living as a human is a high maintenance job.
It's like giving someone a gift they can ill afford to maintain, not without substantial effort anyway. And to force it upon them without a chance to say no.
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Life can be the greatest "gift" for some and the biggest curse for others. Quality of life is a major factor. The way I see it life was imposed on me...I never chose to be here. How is this a "gift". I guess it comes down to individual experiences and my life has been one cruel disaster after another. I never had a chance despite some people I know insisting life is some great amazing gift...I want to return this "gift" then.
HadesOfPurple
Rummy odd-eyed cat
- May 19, 2020
- 14
By the way, if life is supposed to be a gift, should not death be seen as a gift as well? It's death the poets love, not life. It is death that relieves from pain; life causes it. So why do so few people say ''Well, I'll have a great death. Death is a gift, you know! Have a good one yourself! Did you know mine will be wrapped in rainbow colours, because my life was a gift wrapped in black?''
I often think about how horrible it would be if we did not have the choice to die whenever we choose. Can you imagine if you had to wait until you're old to die, no matter the pain? Like if somehow you were biologically unable to die before 60. Some would rejoice, but for others this would be unbearable. So to me, death is a gift. Mine, of course, will be wrapped in purple ;)
I often think about how horrible it would be if we did not have the choice to die whenever we choose. Can you imagine if you had to wait until you're old to die, no matter the pain? Like if somehow you were biologically unable to die before 60. Some would rejoice, but for others this would be unbearable. So to me, death is a gift. Mine, of course, will be wrapped in purple ;)
pentobarbitaldreams
Member
- Jun 11, 2020
- 77
It's just a natural phenomenon. A gift is something that is given, so I guess it can be interpreted as something "given" by your parents. However, I think "gift" has more positive connotations, when that isn't necessarily true for life in general.
DeadD
King Idiot
- Mar 28, 2019
- 46
I'm very spiritual and believe the we choose to come here for a predetermined reason and that at our cores (Haha) we're souls that posses meat sacks. I don't think it's a gift, I think for whatever reason, it's a job with recreational benefits (eating, fucking, creating, etc.) We get to pick the kind of lives we live and then we come in with amnesia so we can learn spiritual lessons we cannot learn with out 3D experiences. Why we do that is an absolute mystery, and I wonder if mental illness was something I chose when I was getting reincarnated or if I had a different plan and got nerfed by biology. Also the older I get and the longer I'm alive (and in pain) the more I hope that death isn't anything but darkness and silence. I'm tired of existing.
Bct
Disqualified from Being Human
- Apr 20, 2020
- 419
People who have a good life of course will consider it as a gift. Then they're trying to impose their view to the unfortunate ones, assuming their misfortunes were just caused by their own bad habits or decisions.
life is a gift life is great, you have everyday the chance to change it and to get out of your depression, altough its a tough way, but its possible. Theres so much to explore, to do, to break the habbits.
It just becomes a burden, if you get physically ill
It just becomes a burden, if you get physically ill
NomadicWolf382
I want to drift into the lucid dream, endlessly...
- Jun 11, 2020
- 131
Yes, it's a gift from someone with a dark twisted cosmic sense of humor. It is not something I asked for, and want to rid myself of it.
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Sprite_Geist
NULL
- May 27, 2020
- 1,595
Life might be a gift or it might not be, it depends on your view of the universe and how you think we came to be. Personally I think that biological life as we know it is random, so it is not a gift in the sense that it's not deliberate. That doesn't mean life can't be awesome or beautiful at times though. As Bob Ross would say: "A happy accident!"
On a more negative note: Lets say that life is a gift for the sake of discussion...
Not all gifts are good. They aren't always handed to you out of genuine kindness; a gift can be given out of malice too. They can be used as a deception - to mask ulterior motives; like a company who throws money at a charity to take away media attention from a forest they've burnt down. They can also be a tool of manipulation - to wrap someone around your finger; like an abusive spouse who beats their partner 1 minute, and then the next showers them with expensive presents to stop them from running away. It's not that the victim wants to stay with their spouse, but rather they feel obligated to stay out of guilt and the fear of being seen as ungrateful.
Life is one of those manipulative gifts. It was given to us without a choice and we're told that we must enjoy it even when we don't. This gift entails being dropped into an environment where we are forced to compete and trample over each other. You experience suffering - sometimes human-made and sometimes natural. You are put through bullying. You experience abuse - physically and emotionally. Just like the battered wife: If you decide enough is enough, and wish to leave the the abusive relationship called Life, you are made to feel horrible for rejecting such abroken amazing gift.
On a more negative note: Lets say that life is a gift for the sake of discussion...
Not all gifts are good. They aren't always handed to you out of genuine kindness; a gift can be given out of malice too. They can be used as a deception - to mask ulterior motives; like a company who throws money at a charity to take away media attention from a forest they've burnt down. They can also be a tool of manipulation - to wrap someone around your finger; like an abusive spouse who beats their partner 1 minute, and then the next showers them with expensive presents to stop them from running away. It's not that the victim wants to stay with their spouse, but rather they feel obligated to stay out of guilt and the fear of being seen as ungrateful.
Life is one of those manipulative gifts. It was given to us without a choice and we're told that we must enjoy it even when we don't. This gift entails being dropped into an environment where we are forced to compete and trample over each other. You experience suffering - sometimes human-made and sometimes natural. You are put through bullying. You experience abuse - physically and emotionally. Just like the battered wife: If you decide enough is enough, and wish to leave the the abusive relationship called Life, you are made to feel horrible for rejecting such a
Superdeterminist
Enlightened
- Apr 5, 2020
- 1,876
Life can be a gift, a curse, or some mixture of the two, all depending on your luck. For me? It is mostly a curse.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,082
I used to think that but I'm totally helpless physically and can walk about 3 steps before I have to sit down and rest. I can't do anything at all and just getting to and from the bathroom is enough to make me stay in bed until the next time. I have MS, copd and about ten other diseases and am in non stop pain without any relief. I'm isolated totally. It's no gift. I've been like this for five years now. I wish I wouldn't have to suffer any more.
Dimension369963
Member
- May 27, 2020
- 17
Has anyone ever had the philosophical discussion in their own heads about how so many Monotheistic religions formed and became dominant? I was raised Catholic, stopped believing at 12. There were too many inconsistencies like god making a deal with lucifer that he could torture Job enough to get him to turn against God. That's evil right there since God already knows the outcome. What really caused me to turn my back on my faith though was that God allowed Satan to kill Job's Wife, Children and Slaves and for remaining loyal, God rewards Job with a new wife, many new children and many new slaves.
So what happened to Job's first wife, his first children and the slaves he had before? Cannon fodder for a God who is supposed to love all equally in order to stroke his ego against his nemesis Satan when he already knows the outcome which Satan does not. When no priest could answer that in a way that justified the actions of God who in the act committed 4 of his own 7 Deadly Sins,
Pride - He knew the future but wanted to prove Satan wrong
Wraith - He allowed Satan to murder innocent people
Greed - He robbed Job's wife, children and slaves of their lives, personal freedom and free will
Envy - I can't prove this one directly from the text but if a supposedly Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient being displayed Pride, Wraith and Greed toward two sets of beings Satan and Humans which are not all powerful, all knowing and ever present, it feels like their is a hatred and jealousy in God and in other parts God even declares I am a jealous God which is pretty much the closest human emotion to envy without being envy.
I then started thinking about Heaven. Based on my interpretation of the Bible and known human translation errors such as eternal hell being a mistranslation of the Jewish Torah where it was common practice to throw garbage and diseased human corpses into an ever burning fire in order to keep others from getting sick. They didn't know about germs but they were aware that fire appeared to cleanse things. That's why we get witch burning centuries later.
But what bothered me the most was the concept of heaven and how literally 4 out of the 6.5 Billion humans on Earth view this immortal afterlife as so wonderful, they live this life being as good and kind as they can not because they want to help others but because they want to be immortal in Heaven with the God of their religion.
First, how would a person have free will in Heaven since Heaven in the big 3 monotheistic religions all seem to imply pure joy forever but while I could be in one of these 3 Heaven's my mother's cancer could come back and she could suffer immensely along with my brother. How would one A) Have Free Will In Heaven B) Have Pure Joy As All 3 Religions State and C) Know Someone You Love Is In Terrible Pain.
It's my problem with Heaven and I realized it was just another variation on another part of religion of the issue with what makes God who they are when the Philosopher Alvin Plantinga called the problem of suffering "the only good objection to God" and wrote the now famous mental puzzle that to this day hasn't been solved but it's rules have been severely bent as to be practically broken by theologists in all 3 religions to keep their faith spreading:
"if God is all good (all benevolent) then God has the desire to end suffering, and if God is all-powerful (omnipotent) then God has the ability to end suffering. Therefore if God does not end suffering, then God is either not all good, or is not all-powerful, and is therefore not God".
So my Issue with Heaven had 4 of these set problems rather than 3.
1) If Heaven is infinite then we will do everything infinitely. This is not the definition of joy. It's the exact opposite. Take the thing you love doing the most in life and be told by anyone you will do it an infinite amount of times and it immediately turns to Hell.
2) If Heaven is pure joy, then how does God reconcile the pain I will feel toward those I loved when I was alive who now suffer because I'm gone or just because life is very hard?
3) How does god reconcile my free will in Heaven which is supposed to be pure joy and love forever when joy and love cannot be understood without suffering and apathy. An infinite life implies one would at first have knowledge of these emotions, they remember their lives. This in and of itself should cause suffering or sadness as something you failed at or missed out on that you really wanted to experience.
4)If Heaven if infinite joy and love, and somehow the first 3 problems could be rectified, how would one continue to understand and value happiness and love after infinite existence in such a state? Happiness and love require at the very minimum the memory of their polar opposites sorrow and apathy from the minds of all. Once knowledge of pain and apathy are lost there is nothing left with which to compare joy and love too, therefore they would be forgotten and instead of Heaven, we would live in an infinite Hell for all of eternity repeating the same things over and over, forgetting emotions, slowly turning into a being of stone, unmalleable in any way, lost and forgot of both the life once lived and all the emotions, sensations and feelings that came from it.
My greatest fear since I was aware of these thoughts around 12 was that when I left the hell known as this life, that I would enter another hell which the majority of the world is convinced is Heaven.
There are only two other options, non-existence which continues to become more and more unlikely now that science is less rigid than it was 30 years ago and many scientists have carried out experiments using the scientific method to prove that we do not die after death. They really had no choice once Quantum Mechanics begun being learned by the first generation of physicists to be aware of its existence. Quantum experiments like the double slit experiment, the microtubules experiment and the reincarnation study by a doctor for over 40 years, who catalogued everything with his assistant, over 5,000 cases I believe, and to this day there are 50 or so which no skeptic can explain or refute no matter how hard they try and how long they work at trying to find holes. Dr. Ian Stevenson's spent his whole life researching this subject and carefully vetting every patient and cataloguing everything.
The most bizarre part of all of his research is, the patients were always between 3-5 and almost always lost all the memories by the age of 7. This makes perfect sense if you've ever taken a Child Psychology class in College. A child of 3 has not yet made the connection that they are separate from the world. Their minds are 100% blank slates, unstained by the bias of the world, parents, teachers, colleges. From 3-5 That blank slate slowly starts to be written over but before it is, some children are known to tell their parents who they were, how they died, special nicknames between who they were and a loved one, most of the children who claimed reincarnation from a violent death were most likely to recall the most precise events and have birthmarks in the area where the person they claim they reincarnated from had their fatal wound that ended their life.
This is the only thing I can imagine of all spiritual and religious beliefs out there that would not result in eternal suffering. If reincarnation was real, we would not suffer eternally to repeat the same things forever, we would not suffer knowing our loved ones are in pain and agony and most of all, we would not have to endure the suffering of emotional problems and mental health issues we don't want to feel. We would be reborn into a better life as payment for our suffering and there is nothing in Buddhism which is a spiritual tradition and not a religion which is an enormous difference, against suicide.
I have even spoken to monks on the subject as the main monasteries for over 100 Buddhist Monasteries around the world was started by a Korean monk only 20 minutes from my house 60 years ago. Sometimes I go there to meditate, or used to before my pain physical and emotional made it impossible to meditate but while I was there, after meditation for 1 hour, I would stay for 2-3 more hours with the monks asking questions specifically related to reincarnation, suicide and pain
So what happened to Job's first wife, his first children and the slaves he had before? Cannon fodder for a God who is supposed to love all equally in order to stroke his ego against his nemesis Satan when he already knows the outcome which Satan does not. When no priest could answer that in a way that justified the actions of God who in the act committed 4 of his own 7 Deadly Sins,
Pride - He knew the future but wanted to prove Satan wrong
Wraith - He allowed Satan to murder innocent people
Greed - He robbed Job's wife, children and slaves of their lives, personal freedom and free will
Envy - I can't prove this one directly from the text but if a supposedly Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient being displayed Pride, Wraith and Greed toward two sets of beings Satan and Humans which are not all powerful, all knowing and ever present, it feels like their is a hatred and jealousy in God and in other parts God even declares I am a jealous God which is pretty much the closest human emotion to envy without being envy.
I then started thinking about Heaven. Based on my interpretation of the Bible and known human translation errors such as eternal hell being a mistranslation of the Jewish Torah where it was common practice to throw garbage and diseased human corpses into an ever burning fire in order to keep others from getting sick. They didn't know about germs but they were aware that fire appeared to cleanse things. That's why we get witch burning centuries later.
But what bothered me the most was the concept of heaven and how literally 4 out of the 6.5 Billion humans on Earth view this immortal afterlife as so wonderful, they live this life being as good and kind as they can not because they want to help others but because they want to be immortal in Heaven with the God of their religion.
First, how would a person have free will in Heaven since Heaven in the big 3 monotheistic religions all seem to imply pure joy forever but while I could be in one of these 3 Heaven's my mother's cancer could come back and she could suffer immensely along with my brother. How would one A) Have Free Will In Heaven B) Have Pure Joy As All 3 Religions State and C) Know Someone You Love Is In Terrible Pain.
It's my problem with Heaven and I realized it was just another variation on another part of religion of the issue with what makes God who they are when the Philosopher Alvin Plantinga called the problem of suffering "the only good objection to God" and wrote the now famous mental puzzle that to this day hasn't been solved but it's rules have been severely bent as to be practically broken by theologists in all 3 religions to keep their faith spreading:
"if God is all good (all benevolent) then God has the desire to end suffering, and if God is all-powerful (omnipotent) then God has the ability to end suffering. Therefore if God does not end suffering, then God is either not all good, or is not all-powerful, and is therefore not God".
So my Issue with Heaven had 4 of these set problems rather than 3.
1) If Heaven is infinite then we will do everything infinitely. This is not the definition of joy. It's the exact opposite. Take the thing you love doing the most in life and be told by anyone you will do it an infinite amount of times and it immediately turns to Hell.
2) If Heaven is pure joy, then how does God reconcile the pain I will feel toward those I loved when I was alive who now suffer because I'm gone or just because life is very hard?
3) How does god reconcile my free will in Heaven which is supposed to be pure joy and love forever when joy and love cannot be understood without suffering and apathy. An infinite life implies one would at first have knowledge of these emotions, they remember their lives. This in and of itself should cause suffering or sadness as something you failed at or missed out on that you really wanted to experience.
4)If Heaven if infinite joy and love, and somehow the first 3 problems could be rectified, how would one continue to understand and value happiness and love after infinite existence in such a state? Happiness and love require at the very minimum the memory of their polar opposites sorrow and apathy from the minds of all. Once knowledge of pain and apathy are lost there is nothing left with which to compare joy and love too, therefore they would be forgotten and instead of Heaven, we would live in an infinite Hell for all of eternity repeating the same things over and over, forgetting emotions, slowly turning into a being of stone, unmalleable in any way, lost and forgot of both the life once lived and all the emotions, sensations and feelings that came from it.
My greatest fear since I was aware of these thoughts around 12 was that when I left the hell known as this life, that I would enter another hell which the majority of the world is convinced is Heaven.
There are only two other options, non-existence which continues to become more and more unlikely now that science is less rigid than it was 30 years ago and many scientists have carried out experiments using the scientific method to prove that we do not die after death. They really had no choice once Quantum Mechanics begun being learned by the first generation of physicists to be aware of its existence. Quantum experiments like the double slit experiment, the microtubules experiment and the reincarnation study by a doctor for over 40 years, who catalogued everything with his assistant, over 5,000 cases I believe, and to this day there are 50 or so which no skeptic can explain or refute no matter how hard they try and how long they work at trying to find holes. Dr. Ian Stevenson's spent his whole life researching this subject and carefully vetting every patient and cataloguing everything.
The most bizarre part of all of his research is, the patients were always between 3-5 and almost always lost all the memories by the age of 7. This makes perfect sense if you've ever taken a Child Psychology class in College. A child of 3 has not yet made the connection that they are separate from the world. Their minds are 100% blank slates, unstained by the bias of the world, parents, teachers, colleges. From 3-5 That blank slate slowly starts to be written over but before it is, some children are known to tell their parents who they were, how they died, special nicknames between who they were and a loved one, most of the children who claimed reincarnation from a violent death were most likely to recall the most precise events and have birthmarks in the area where the person they claim they reincarnated from had their fatal wound that ended their life.
This is the only thing I can imagine of all spiritual and religious beliefs out there that would not result in eternal suffering. If reincarnation was real, we would not suffer eternally to repeat the same things forever, we would not suffer knowing our loved ones are in pain and agony and most of all, we would not have to endure the suffering of emotional problems and mental health issues we don't want to feel. We would be reborn into a better life as payment for our suffering and there is nothing in Buddhism which is a spiritual tradition and not a religion which is an enormous difference, against suicide.
I have even spoken to monks on the subject as the main monasteries for over 100 Buddhist Monasteries around the world was started by a Korean monk only 20 minutes from my house 60 years ago. Sometimes I go there to meditate, or used to before my pain physical and emotional made it impossible to meditate but while I was there, after meditation for 1 hour, I would stay for 2-3 more hours with the monks asking questions specifically related to reincarnation, suicide and pain
Yeah totally a gift being born woth a deformed head face is just wonderfull. I tottaly love it how im not able to go outside forthe restof my life, how im not able to get married and even be happy and have to see how everyone the same age as me is getting laid and goes out partying every weekend. I love it how i still have to work even if i look like i come straight out of a horror movie because you know i have still 2 hands so i can stillbe a slave while im getting insulted and violated. Its a fucking joke our roof is burning not that of the blacks or whatever life is a fucking joke and most people in it are even fare worse. A gift ffs
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,082
I think it's hell and for some it is a seduction, a trick to make some of us think it's a gift if we don't have such miseries as you describe. I watch nature and see such beautiful animals and birds eating other beautiful creatures and it's obvious at this point what a cruel trick this all is for every living thing. Look as us here for example wishing to leave.
dysfunctional
Arcanist
- Oct 26, 2018
- 459
It definitely is, I say this because I enjoyed many happy years and did many amazing things. Now I suffer from intense mental illness that makes it a burden.
Luchs
kristallene Bergluft über verfallener Gruft
- Aug 20, 2019
- 528
Life is a gift, you got it for free, however, if your life is the equivolent of an itchy sweater for christmas, then you just had bad luck.
Life is the worse gift in the the fucking universe. Somebody needs to destroy it. ASAP
Mr2005
Don't shoot the messenger, give me the gun
- Sep 25, 2018
- 3,621
no they don't. You have the choice whether you want to part of it. You don't decide what's right for others. You're not god
So in my opinion it's a gift I threw away. Sick of people whining "I didn't ask for this" No I didn't ask for a lot of things , they weren't all bad. If they were why? I either made them bad or other people did. People have definitely got worse. Think the whole fucking universe revolves around them, think everything is someone else's fault. So yeah I have problems with life but it's not life itself it's what we've done with it, what I've done with it.
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deadgirlahsatan
Specialist
- Jun 5, 2020
- 373
It's a curse i think rather than a gift. This world is such a shithole it 's ridiculous how people keep having kids. Gets worse every fucking year. I wish i could give this 'gift' back i don't want it. Chronic pain, social anxiety,ugliness,migraines,severe pms/ periods, no talent etc. Never ends.
Mr2005
Don't shoot the messenger, give me the gun
- Sep 25, 2018
- 3,621
it's not having kids that makes it shit though is it? That's one of the things that makes it worthwhile
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,082
Having kids is bringing other unfortunate beings into a horrible situation. It might be ok for them for most of their life. Or it might be suffering year after year like some of us go through. I think we are all unfortunate to be here in one way or another. I think the other side is much better.
bruisedbutbrave
New Member
- Jun 25, 2020
- 3
"Gift" is definitely sugar-coating it. We're all just given this putty called life and allowed to shape into whatever--with boundaries of course-- because god forbid we shape it in a way that this arrogant and controlling world wouldn't like. But those of us suffering and suicidal are just given one of those phony pretty boxes that explode once we open them. So like a rational person who doesn't want an empty box, we want to get rid of it. But what do we hear?
"No refunds, 'nuff said! Have fun with your gift of nothingness!"
"No refunds, 'nuff said! Have fun with your gift of nothingness!"
Abgrundanziehung
or Abi for short
- Jun 24, 2020
- 216
woxihuanni
Illuminated
- Aug 19, 2019
- 3,298
@Jean Améry has made the excellent point that gifts are up to our free will, which is not the case if we are not free to consent to get or get rid of life.
As an aside to somebody else, I will do the infinitely boring job of spelling out the obvious in case a young, impressionable and vulnerable person is reading these boards: No, souls are not scientifically proven; you have no idea whatsoever what scientific means. Go ahead and believe in souls, just don't go around feeding bs to suicidal people.
As an aside to somebody else, I will do the infinitely boring job of spelling out the obvious in case a young, impressionable and vulnerable person is reading these boards: No, souls are not scientifically proven; you have no idea whatsoever what scientific means. Go ahead and believe in souls, just don't go around feeding bs to suicidal people.
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