Discussion Do you think life is a ''gift''? Why/ why not

[Rue89]

A gift to my parents maybe, but being born with physical health issues that caused a mental disability and mental health issues, my life was never a gift for me.

 

[MariV]

No. its pointless and extremely repetitive imo

 

[Deleted member 19654]

A gift for some and a curse for others.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

"Yesterday, is history. Tomorrow, is a mystery. But today, is a gift. That is why they call it the present."
-Master Oogway, Kung Fu Panda.

Too bad for some people it's a shitty gift. We should be allowed to return it at least for store credit.

 

[LenkaX]

Life is gift only if your life is good.

 

[watsonsmith]

I believe that life is a miracle in the sense that it seems to me like an astounding coincidence (?) that the conditions on earth became such that it came about and similarly for each individual. So, in its essence, yes, life is a gift.

However, society has not yet evolved to fully embrace it as such and make it its foundational value. I believe this is the source of much of the suffering in the privileged parts of this world – status (power and fame) rather than life continues to be valued more. In some ways perhaps we are even degenerating when I observe the collapse of the family in Western societies.

Reading this board and from my own experience – for many of us, had we been brought up in nurturing, loving and caring communities, we'd probably not be posting here. No amount of money can make up for growing up believing your life is worthless. And what other conclusion can an abandoned, neglected, maltreated or otherwise abused child have ingrained deep in their psyche?

That's why my dream has always been to start a family and nurture it with love and affection that have been missing in my childhood. To make my children believe that their lives are worth more than anything. So they could honestly say that "life is a gift". Of course, I never expected that my own deficits would have me come down with psychological issues that eventually led me here... I now doubt I will ever realise my dream, but I sincerely hope that there are parents and family members out there who do realise that once there is new life brought into this world, there is nothing that matters more.

 

[Shiv15]

Firstly, I was trying to hit the quote tab and accidentally hit the 'like' tab instead. I do not really 'like' your post. I am indifferent to it and have no particular interest or concern to it like that...

This is contradictory.

I know I did not include your entire post, but you said;

You decided to reincarnation in this world it was your decision. . .

And then you say, you will "have to" reincarnate again to compensate for your suicide...

Those two statements are contradictory no matter which way, or how you slice it.

Therefore, this what you said trying to warn others about their suicide.. it does not hold any weight as being a "truth"

I was wanting to point out the fallacious statements as I see them, to be based on a mistaken belief.

There is nothing to be scared of here by what was said through your words...

The spiritual world is complex. There are many things we fail to understand. Yes you are correct, the statement is contradictory. But it does not make it fallacious. We are mere humans. There are many concepts about the spirit world we do not understand. There are many things which I myself do not understand and find contradictory. But the truth is the truth. There is no need for further discussion. Believe what pleases you.

The fact that God exists (It may or may not be a "fact" according to one's belief) and there is suffering in this world is contradictory.


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I have also made a post above which responds to the other 2 who have questioned my belief. Though my comment is yet to be approved by the moderators.

And btw, you can unlike my post that you have previously liked.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Some gifts are shit.

LOL I'd completely forgotten I posted this. I can be such a tw*t sometimes.

 

[watsonsmith]

The fact that God exists (It may or may not be a "fact" according to one's belief) and there is suffering in this world is contradictory.

I don't see why it would necessarily be contradictory. It might be if we assume that human suffering is in some way special, but I think we often lack perspective. Our personal story is just another "fractal" of experience embedded in a much grander story. Just thinking about the 4th dimension, for instance, makes one question how a God, which is beyond time and space would look at any individual's suffering.

I believe that suffering is a necessary condition for being in this universe at this point in time. Humanity has the opportunity to transform it and have life propagate and expand not in escape from suffering but in peaceful exploration.

So, in my view God rolled the dice and created this reality, but either can't or won't intervene. Pondering this further – perhaps consciousness itself is a random result of this dice roll and God is simply sitting there unbelieving and afraid to jinx it with any intervention? There are so many questions one could ask, but I definitely wouldn't say that there being a God and suffering at the same time is contradictory.

 

[fuzattojuliana]

Not a gift. Let me show an example. I exist and I do not exist. Every situation gives me a point or take me it. Presence of pain (bad) -1, absence of pain (good) +1, presence of pleasure (good) +1, absence of pleasure (neutral) 0. So let's do an account. Life is like:
-1 + 1 = 0
Non existence is like:
0 + 1 = 1

BETTER NEVER BEEN EXISTED

 

[Lupgevif]

It's a deal in which you have no say in most of the terms.

 

[The Dark Chaos]

If you mean a gift of misery & suffering then absolutely yes!

[EDIT] More like a curse than a gift perhaps?

Life is not a gift. It is a burden. Parents do not ask children whether they want to be born or not. They give birth simply because they "are supposed to", they want someone to do household chores, they need someone to dominate, there are many more reasons and some of them are disgusting. And children have to face life's challenges after that.

Yes! Life was "forced" to us. We didn't give out consent to be brought in this world yet parents act as if we owe them everything, where in fact I think they owe us, if not everything than something at least?

 

[Shiv15]

I don't see why it would necessarily be contradictory. It might be if we assume that human suffering is in some way special, but I think we often lack perspective. Our personal story is just another "fractal" of experience embedded in a much grander story. Just thinking about the 4th dimension, for instance, makes one question how a God, which is beyond time and space would look at any individual's suffering.

I believe that suffering is a necessary condition for being in this universe at this point in time. Humanity has the opportunity to transform it and have life propagate and expand not in escape from suffering but in peaceful exploration.

So, in my view God rolled the dice and created this reality, but either can't or won't intervene. Pondering this further – perhaps consciousness itself is a random result of this dice roll and God is simply sitting there unbelieving and afraid to jinx it with any intervention? There are so many questions one could ask, but I definitely wouldn't say that there being a God and suffering at the same time is contradictory.

The reason it's contradictory is because we see God as all knowing, forgiving, and kind. Most do not see as god as just a powerful being but as a symbol of love, hope, kindness, and one who plays the role of a saviour. Therefore, it is safe to assume that having suffering in this world and God existing, is contradictory and that's why many choose not to believe in God.

It all depends on our perspective. This is also the reason why I do not generally talk about my spiritual knowledge.

Such debates and arguments have no basis. We are wasting our time.

 

[watsonsmith]

Such debates and arguments have no basis. We are wasting our time.

Oh, I didn't pick this up to argue with you at all. I just find these kinds of conversations interesting. As you said, it's a matter of perspective, I personally found a way of reconciling the existence of "god" with suffering on this earth and wanted to share it. But I respect your opinion too.

 

[Shiv15]

Oh, I didn't pick this up to argue with you at all. I just find these kinds of conversations interesting. As you said, it's a matter of perspective, I personally found a way of reconciling the existence of "god" with suffering on this earth and wanted to share it. But I respect your opinion too.

Oh I truly am sorry. I thought u were trying to attack me as well. I didn't know.

And no you were right. We all have our opinion and views that shape the way we think and perceive the world and it's content.

Would love to have a conversation about such things with you to be honest.

I truly do apologise for being rude.

I understand how irritating it can be when you are being genuine while the other is being rude.

 

[VIBRITANNIA]

by definition, it is a gift. it's an awful gift, but a gift nonetheless.

doesn't everybody receive a different gift, anyway? one person could get a diamond, and another could get a pile of shit.

 

[XYZ]

LOL I'd completely forgotten I posted this. I can be such a tw*t sometimes.

You were right, though.

 

[sadworld]

I just thought about it and the word "gift" in german means "poison", so yeah i guess its a gift.

 

[TheSoulless]

Yeah, it's like a pair of socks when you expected Legos.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

You seem so fucking arrogant

what makes you say this?
I think you've misinterpreted my intent.
I was merely asking questions

You have a designated place where u can leave the being offerings.
Beings do not physically come and eat the offerings. They take out the energy from the offerings which leaves the food items rotten or heavily decomposed.

how exactly was I supposed to know this?
You say it as if it's the most natural thing in the world/common knowledge.

Ask questions to learn not to criticize. You could decide that my set of beliefs does not melt with your own but you have no right to be toxic

I wasn't criticizing. You interpreted my questions as criticism.

I have a right to ask questions when I don't understand what someone's getting at.
You've confused that with 'being toxic' (whatever that means).

You mock what you do not understand

this is your subjective interpretation.

But it doesn't mean you should take such a tone in your speech

I don't understand how you can guess tonality from written text. You've decided to interpret legitimate questions in your own way.
Also, you're the one that started saying that angels are 'generally cunts', which is kind of funny.
But then you criticize others for continuing the conversation in a comedic spirit.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me, but i do not like my believes to be made fun of

I did have questions but you interpreted them as mocking or belittling.
It makes interacting with you a bit difficult.

Anyway, sorry you took things the wrong way.
There were no bad intentions from me.
I wish you the best.

 

[Spitfire]

The spiritual world is complex. There are many things we fail to understand. Yes you are correct, the statement is contradictory. But it does not make it fallacious. We are mere humans. There are many concepts about the spirit world we do not understand. There are many things which I myself do not understand and find contradictory. But the truth is the truth. There is no need for further discussion. Believe what pleases you.

The fact that God exists (It may or may not be a "fact" according to one's belief) and there is suffering in this world is contradictory.


--------
I have also made a post above which responds to the other 2 who have questioned my belief. Though my comment is yet to be approved by the moderators.

And btw, you can unlike my post that you have previously liked.

I 'liked' your post.

It sounds like you may have misunderstood the context of my response to your post if you were referring to me as being rude or attacking?

If this was how it came across to you, then I apologize for not wording myself better.

I made sure to say it was the way how I saw the things you said.

I was wrong to say it holds no weight. I can see that. If it is your belief, then this is weight enough for me, so far as beliefs go...

I still did not like it though (not to be rude), but I am less indifferent to it now.

Thank you

 

[ghostspace]

Yes, it's a lucky chance to be alive and being alive comes with many possibilities of good things.

My life was a gift but I grew up neglected so my mental situation is shit.

 

[muffin222]

I think it's a matter of perspective

 

[Sinkinshyp]

I think life is a gift sadly many don't have a proper start. I had 2 miscarriages and when I had my younger son he was almost one, fought hard not to loose him.
I moved out at 16 and spent my teen years in and out of psych. I was born into hell
Now my older son son who was given a much better life loved it. He was active in a club had hobbies always smiling and enjoying doing things when he wasn't working. It depends on what skills were are given as little ones or if we were abused and had a bad start.

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

The reason it's contradictory is because we see God as all knowing, forgiving, and kind. Most do not see as god as just a powerful being but as a symbol of love, hope, kindness, and one who plays the role of a saviour. Therefore, it is safe to assume that having suffering in this world and God existing, is contradictory and that's why many choose not to believe in God.

The Christian view is that God's true love is manifest in the gift of free will. If God was all-controlling, we would not be able to choose anything in our lives. It is the human quality of free will that leads to sin, suffering, pain...

So, I don't see the concepts as necessarily contradictory. In fact, our suffering is as a direct consequence of God's love for humans. So perhaps not contradictory, but definitely ironic!

 

[Shiv15]

what makes you say this?
I think you've misinterpreted my intent.
I was merely asking questions

how exactly was I supposed to know this?
You say it as if it's the most natural thing in the world/common knowledge.

I wasn't criticizing. You interpreted my questions as criticism.

I have a right to ask questions when I don't understand what someone's getting at.
You've confused that with 'being toxic' (whatever that means).

this is your subjective interpretation.

I don't understand how you can guess tonality from written text. You've decided to interpret legitimate questions in your own way.
Also, you're the one that started saying that angels are 'generally cunts', which is kind of funny.
But then you criticize others for continuing the conversation in a comedic spirit.

I did have questions but you interpreted them as mocking or belittling.
It makes interacting with you a bit difficult.

Anyway, sorry you took things the wrong way.
There were no bad intentions from me.
I wish you the best.

what makes you say this?
I think you've misinterpreted my intent.
I was merely asking questions

how exactly was I supposed to know this?
You say it as if it's the most natural thing in the world/common knowledge.

I wasn't criticizing. You interpreted my questions as criticism.

I have a right to ask questions when I don't understand what someone's getting at.
You've confused that with 'being toxic' (whatever that means).

this is your subjective interpretation.

I don't understand how you can guess tonality from written text. You've decided to interpret legitimate questions in your own way.
Also, you're the one that started saying that angels are 'generally cunts', which is kind of funny.
But then you criticize others for continuing the conversation in a comedic spirit.

I did have questions but you interpreted them as mocking or belittling.
It makes interacting with you a bit difficult.

Anyway, sorry you took things the wrong way.
There were no bad intentions from me.
I wish you the best.

No, I'm sorry for interpreting your questions the wrong way. I truly am.
To be honest, I moved to Australia 5yrs ago. And I have found the people here to be extremely aggressive and impolite. Which in return has led me to be extremely rude.

Once again, I really do apologise.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

No, I'm sorry for interpreting your questions the wrong way. I truly am.
To be honest, I moved to Australia 5yrs ago. And I have found the people here to be extremely aggressive and impolite. Which in return has led me to be extremely rude.

Once again, I really do apologise.

Don't worry about it.
Sorry if my comments/questions came across as mocking.

I actually find your views interesting.

 

[Shiv15]

The Christian view is that God's true love is manifest in the gift of free will. If God was all-controlling, we would not be able to choose anything in our lives. It is the human quality of free will that leads to sin, suffering, pain...

So, I don't see the concepts as necessarily contradictory. In fact, our suffering is as a direct consequence of God's love for humans. So perhaps not contradictory, but definitely ironic!

Well personally, my experience with Christians has led me to believe that they no only believe in the gift of free will to be from God but also he is the all knowing and kind. In the spiritual community, I once warned a christian lady that some of her actions may lead to negetive spiritual consequences, her response was that "God will save me". And this is the psychology and view of most christians I have come across. "God will save me".

Your experience may have been different, but to be honest I don't understand why our perception about the christians would be different.

The Christian view is that God's true love is manifest in the gift of free will. If God was all-controlling, we would not be able to choose anything in our lives. It is the human quality of free will that leads to sin, suffering, pain...

So, I don't see the concepts as necessarily contradictory. In fact, our suffering is as a direct consequence of God's love for humans. So perhaps not contradictory, but definitely ironic!

Though I guess you are correct about free will being a gift from the God. I have seen some people manipulate and control one's free will and I know for a fact that it causes a lot of negative karma to build up.

 

[Meditation guide]

They enjoy receiving gifts from us.

I am not mocking you but this is something new and strange to me. How do you know they like to get gifts? Why call them "cunts" if you give them gifts? What makes you call them that? Do you think they know you called them that? If they are cunts why call them angels? Why not call them demons?

 

[esse_est_percipi]

The Christian view is that God's true love is manifest in the gift of free will. If God was all-controlling, we would not be able to choose anything in our lives. It is the human quality of free will that leads to sin, suffering, pain...

So, I don't see the concepts as necessarily contradictory. In fact, our suffering is as a direct consequence of God's love for humans. So perhaps not contradictory, but definitely ironic!

But you've also got all the suffering not due to free will like natural disasters etc.
And all the animal suffering, which is also not part of the free will scheme (although some humans use their free will to cause animal suffering, a different issue).

Ultimately, I think that the payoff of having free will is of less value than the price you actually have to pay for it.

Surely God could intervene sometimes, to alleviate some suffering.
He could occasionally rearrange particles and molecules to help people without trespassing on free will too much.
I'm sure a lot of people would be very grateful if he did, and they wouldn't be too upset about minor infringements on their free will.

I very much suspect it's because there is no God.