A thorough story on Shawn Shatto

[oopswronglife]

No I literally can't express my views without being banned. That is excatly the same as not being allowed to express my views. So perhaps I should just lie about my views or be passive member of the forum. And everyone here is beating a dead horse. It seems to me anyway.

Ok I'm out. You have reframed all of this as an assault on YOU. It's not about the forum, or suicide, or her mom, or anyone else, it's your feeling attacked and wronged. Once people lock in like that nothing good comes of it.

 

[Shamana]

The name of this forum is literally sanctioned-suicide, right. Why are you complaining? You said that this forum could be responsible for the death of young people, you defended the outrageous claims of Shawns mother about the forum, you said you oppose euthanasia, which is all about ending suffering and pain and you said we should tell people to rethink their choice if they're about to commit suicide. I feel like this isn't the right place for you if you're opposing the autonomy and freedom of an individual to commit suicide.

Unless I made a spelling error, I said that I am all for legalizing euthanasia. I agree that Shawn's mother should have included more about suicide and suicide prevention in her radiocast, but I object to a bunch of strangers calling her a shit mother, saying she doesnt have real love for her daughter and saying that she is responsible for her suicide.

Ok I'm out. You have reframed all of this as an assault on YOU. It's not about the forum, or suicide, or her mom, or anyone else, it's your feeling attacked and wronged. Once people lock in like that nothing good comes of it.

It is actually mostly other members who makes post aimed at me instead about the topic at hand or about the views we are debating.

I am agree about discussion .............but I already had banned you about piranha's thread.

There was quite a few who found it funny to be honest.

 

[color_me_gone]

Perhaps @Shamana should stick to the newly created recovery subforum.

 

[Asta]

Not to change the subject, but who said, "life is too short"? Really?? I would think that most of us feel that life is too damn long. That's why we're here on this site - right? (And it's "There were quite a few..." Just saying.

 

[Shamana]

Perhaps @Shamana should stick to the newly created recovery subforum.

Am i going into the goodbyes thread and telling them they should keep on living? No i am not. I actually dont think you should have any say in what forum i belong to.

 

[color_me_gone]

 

[calendulo]

There was quite a few who found it funny to be honest.

Best thread I had read ever. Great, a ray of light among this darkness.
Be careful with activists, They ask right to die but nobody does it...

 

[Shamana]

The name of this forum is literally sanctioned-suicide, right. Why are you complaining? You said that this forum could be responsible for the death of young people, you defended the outrageous claims of Shawns mother about the forum, you said you oppose euthanasia, which is all about ending suffering and pain and you said we should tell people to rethink their choice if they're about to commit suicide. I feel like this isn't the right place for you if you're opposing the autonomy and freedom of an individual to commit suicide.

This forum can be responsibe for the death young people/Adults in the sense that they may not have comitted suicide without having methods and support from this community. I am sympathetic to Shawn's mother's crusade against SS, because I can see how it played a direct part in the suicide of her daughter which is one of the most tramautazing experiences a mother can go thorugh. I can understand her point of view even if I dont' entirely agree with it.

Like I said before. I am completely for legalizing euthanasia so that people caught in a chronic hopeless condition can get professional help to die peacefully if that's what they wish.

What I said is that I don't support assisted suicide for all adults whatever their reason is.

Let me give an example. A 25 year old friend has an episode of depression triggered because his girlfriend of 5 years left him. This makes him acutely sudicidal. Should we give such a person the methods and support to suicide or would it be wiser and kinder to encourage him to be patient and remind that there are pleny fish in the sea?

In such a situation I think the latter action is the right one. That's an example why I don't agree with supporting suicide for adults no matter what their reason is.


I don't think we neccessarily should tell people to rethink suicide when they make a goodbye thread. I was pointing out that due to the culture and rules here, we are basicly not allowed to. Which is why I understand that Shawn's mother thinks this is evil site, because we are generally not really allowed to talk people out of their imminent suicide no matter what the reasons are for that suicide. So basicly you are only allowed to offer support.

If I told a bunch of friends that I am going to a bridge to jump to my death and they don't intervene and tell me good luck then I would say, that they have support my suicide.

 

[RainAndSadness]

This forum can be responsibe for the death young people/Adults in the sense that they may not have comitted suicide without having methods and support from this community. I am sympathetic to Shawn's mother's crusade against SS, because I can see how it played a direct part in the suicide of her daughter which is one of the most tramautazing experiences a mother can go thorugh. I can understand her point of view even if I dont' entirely agree with it.

Like I said before. I am completely for legalizing euthanasia so that people caught in a chronic hopeless condition can get professional help to die peacefully if that's what they wish.

What I said is that I don't support assisted suicide for all adults whatever their reason is.

Let me give an example. A 25 year old friend has an episode of depression triggered because his girlfriend of 5 years left him. This makes him acutely sudicidal. Should we give such a person the methods and support to suicide or would it be wiser and kinder to encourage him to be patient and remind that there are pleny fish in the sea?

In such a situation I think the latter action is the right one. That's an example why I don't agree with supporting suicide for adults no matter what their reason is.


I don't think we neccessarily should tell people to rethink suicide when they make a goodbye thread. I was pointing out that due to the culture and rules here, we are basicly not allowed to. Which is why I understand that Shawn's mother thinks this is evil site, because we are generally not really allowed to talk people out of their imminent suicide no matter what the reasons are for that suicide. So basicly you are only allowed to offer support.

If I told a bunch of friends that I am going to a bridge to jump to my death and they don't intervene and tell me good luck then I would say, that they have support my suicide.

Let me make it very clear for you.

It doesn't matter if you're 25 years old.
It doesn't matter if you're 35 years old.
It doesn't matter if you're 45 years old.
All of these ages are valid ages to commit suicide.

We don't do that gate keeping crap here. That's why I said before that this probably isn't the right place for you. We don't judge people by age. We don't judge them by their background. We don't judge them by the severity of their struggles. Everyone who wants to leave this shit-show can leave this shit-show.

It's not your place or mine to tell others if they're "ready enough" to commit suicide. You mention breakup as an example that shouldn't lead to suicide. But what if that person, during these 5 years, completely isolated themselves and is unable to find any joy in life? What if the loneliness is consuming them? What if they simply can't escape that void? I am lonely. I am socially isolated. It's not the full story and not the reason why I want to commit suicide but it's one of the many reasons that contribute to my suicide ideation. The same way I don't tell others if they're "ready" to go I don't want you or anyone else to tell me if I'm "suicidal enough" to leave this planet. This isn't your decision. It's not the decision of my family members. It's not the decision of friends. It's not the decision of doctors. It's solely my decision and you will have to accept that. And that's pretty much the philosophy of most people who come to this place. We don't like gate keeping. We don't like people who come to this place and share their unnecessary wisdom about life. We don't like people who tell others that they're not ready to ctb. Now, I don't know if the climate changed in the last 12 months but when I first registered, this was the philosophy of this forum. Maybe this changed, maybe I am the minority now and everyone else likes authoritarian figures that tell them if they're ready to commit suicide. I don't like that.

That doesn't make this site evil. It doesn't justify your nonsense and it certainly doesn't justify the constant attacks of Shawn mother. This is a pro-choice forum. This means, if you make the choice to leave this planet, there won't be a doctor in this forum checking up on your rationality before he gives you the green light. You can simply register, get your resources, engage in the forum and if you're done, you can simply check out. Nobody is gonna stop you here. Your whole argument about Shawn mother breaks apart when you consider that every single person on this planet, every member in this forum, has a fucking mother. So what do you want us do to? Does it mean every single mother on this planet that lost their son that was registered in this forum has the right to come after us and shut us down, even when they were adults? And that's the point. Shawn was 25 years old. She was an adult. It was her decision and we should respect that instead of dragging her name through the dirt like that. Do you think she wanted to become part of this discussion after she leaves? I doubt it.

You are allowed to support people but not - I repeat - NOT in threads when they already made up their mind about suicide. You don't seem to understand that. Respect other peoples decision. Respect their circumstances. Don't be an ass. These are the rules.

Again, I am talking about people who sincerely and genuinely want to commit suicide. I am NOT talking about people who do it out of desperation. I'm not talking about people who need attention and do it as a cry for help. I'm talking about individuals that made the conscious decision to leave this life behind, who understand the implications and permanent consequences of suicide and accept them.

 

[color_me_gone]

In such a situation I think the latter action is the right one.

Yes, there are situation where a person should not commit suicide.
When this is the case, most people in this forum will tell the person exactly what you said.
I personally helped a young lady who was in an abusive marriage see better options than suicide, which she chose and thanked me later.
So we are not all vultures here, just waiting for someone to die.
In clear cut case, we help people see the light.

But not all cases are clear cut.
Some people have a lot of trauma.
We are sympathetic to people who literally have no way out.
Some chronic depression can never be cured, I know personally suffering for 62 years.
The crap about suicide being a permanent solution to a temporary problem does not fit every situation.

 

[Shamana]

Let me make it very clear for you.

It doesn't matter if you're 25 years old.
It doesn't matter if you're 35 years old.
It doesn't matter if you're 45 years old.
All of these ages are valid ages to commit suicide.

We don't do that gate keeping crap here. That's why I said before that this probably isn't the right place for you. We don't judge people by age. We don't judge them by their background. We don't judge them by the severity of their struggles. Everyone who wants to leave this shit-show can leave this shit-show.

It's not your place or mine to tell others if they're "ready enough" to commit suicide. You mention breakup as an example that shouldn't lead to suicide. But what if that person, during these 5 years, completely isolated themselves and is unable to find any joy in life? What if the loneliness is consuming them? What if they simply can't escape that void? I am lonely. I am socially isolated. It's not the full story and not the reason why I want to commit suicide but it's one of the many reasons that contribute to my suicide ideation. The same way I don't tell others if they're "ready" to go I don't want you or anyone else to tell me if I'm "suicidal enough" to leave this planet. This isn't your decision. It's not the decision of my family members. It's not the decision of friends. It's not the decision of doctors. It's solely my decision and you will have to accept that. And that's pretty much the philosophy of most people who come to this place. We don't like gate keeping. We don't like people who come to this place and share their unnecessary wisdom about life. We don't like people who tell others that they're not ready to ctb. Now, I don't know if the climate changed in the last 12 months but when I first registered, this was the philosophy of this forum. Maybe this changed, maybe I am the minority now and everyone else likes authoritarian figures that tell them if they're ready to commit suicide. I don't like that.

That doesn't make this site evil. It doesn't justify your nonsense and it certainly doesn't justify the constant attacks of Shawn mother. This is a pro-choice forum. This means, if you make the choice to leave this planet, there won't be a doctor in this forum checking up on your rationality before he gives you the green light. You can simply register, get your resources, engage in the forum and if you're done, you can simply check out. Nobody is gonna stop you here.

You are allowed to support people but not - I repeat - NOT in threads when they already made up their mind about suicide. You don't seem to understand that. Respect other peoples decision. Respect their circumstances. Don't be an ass. These are the rules.

I was saying that if his girlfriend who he had been in a relationship with for 5 years broke up with him. If he spent the remaining 5 years in isolation and depression then maybe suicide should be on the table. But I don't feel it should for people who are acutely suicidal and who have pretty realistic chances of getting better or well.

You may feel that I don't belong here and your entitled to that point of view. There are quite a few members on the board here to have written to me in PM's who are happy about my contributions to this forum and feel that I am a voice of reason here so your whole "We do not approve" does not apply to all members here.

 

[oopswronglife]

Be careful with activists, They ask right to die but nobody does it...

This is insulting...cruel...and you should be ashamed. I've seen many of people end their lives over my lifetime because their pain became too great. They all tried to find a way to live. Some were very important to me. You disrespect their memories. They were all loved by at least one person even if they didn't admit it. Each one of them had people offering wisdom and support. None of them had anything to prove to YOU or some standard to meet to be "approved" of by people like you.

I am usually not one for banning people but if it were up to me you'd be permanbanned for this comment alone. For a time I thought it was a language barrier with you so was understanding because some things just don't translate well and can be misinterpreted, but I've seen enough similar comments from you to see its not a technical problem.

*If by some chance I am totally wrong and have actually misinterpreted you then I I sincerely apologize. We all get it wrong sometimes. If that is the case please explain it to me so I can understand.

 

[Shamana]

Yes, there are situation where a person should not commit suicide.
When this is the case, most people in this forum will tell the person exactly what you said.
I personally helped a young lady who was in an abusive marriage see better options than suicide, which she chose and thanked me later.
So we are not all vultures here, just waiting for someone to die.
In clear cut case, we help people see the light.

But not all cases are clear cut.
Some people have a lot of trauma.
We are sympathetic to people who literally have no way out.
Some chronic depression can never be cured, I know personally suffering for 62 years.
The crap about suicide being a permanent solution to a temporary problem does not fit every situation.

What she is saying though is that we should respect ALL adults desire and choice to commit suicide no matter what their reasoning is. It is simply a nihilistic point of view that I don't agree with. I wouldn't respect a parent with a young child choice to commit suicide unless that parent is caught in a very painfull difficult situation.

 

[Lennox]

What she is saying though is that we should respect ALL adults desire and choice to commit suicide no matter what their reasoning is. It is simply a nihilistic point of view that I don't agree with. I wouldn't respect a parent with a young child choice to commit suicide unless that parent is caught in a very painfull difficult situation.

I don't encourage anyone to take their own life, and will, if possible, help them find options to get out of a bad situation.
That said, I think people should have the right to decide ending their lives even if others don't find their reasoning to do so convincing.

That's the level of freedom I think people should have. I wouldn't call it nihilism.

 

[AnnihilatedAnna]

Ethically I agree with what @Shamana said about the reasoning behind ones suicide. But i also agree that everyone should have the right to decide that for themselves, like @Lennox said. It just doesn't feel right in some situations. But who am I to judge? I don't know what they feel. I only know what I do.

 

[calendulo]

This is insulting...cruel...and you should be ashamed. I've seen many of people end their lives over my lifetime because their pain became too great.

"Why should these now-quadriplegic people be forced to live for decades unable to move a muscle, while some woman who drives herself to a hospital, walks herself to a hospital room, and is told that she has breast cancer and has six months or less to live should be allowed to get help killing herself in the doctors office after a 1-2 week waiting period? Explain."

Do you see above................That is literally what said other member, of yours same ideas. Is a good english.
He or She does a terrible comparison between a quadraplegic (a failure jumping previous depression) and a woman with random breast cancer.
The woman going to die and she surely will have an assisted suicide, quad will not have. That's the problem.

What you think about me is exactly the same that I think about you. Exactly, the same.

 

[Lifeisatrap]

Information about SN poisoning is available on many websites, including LAH, which links to this forum. If she didn't find the information here, she would've found it somewhere else.

Sorry to throw off the thread but what's LAH?

Oops, sorry didn't mean to type my question in the quote box lol. Was just curious to know what LAH stood for.

 

[color_me_gone]

@Lifeisatrap
LAH is an acronym for the website "Lost All Hope",
which outlines various methods, but tends to try to talk you out of suicide if they can.
http://lostallhope.com/terms-use

 

[HGL91]

lol. In America my mom used to say "So self-involved they can't see past their own nose."
And it's in this.

@not_a_robot I love Camera Obscura! Ps. Never mind what I said on that other thread. I clearly found the drama, haha.

That's not the only issue. She says that we, as a collective, are "murderers" of her daughter. She did that several times on her Facebook timeline and she mentioned this in several articles. She says we're responsible for this. She deflects any responsibility she had herself as a mother and I had a lot more sympathy towards her when I first read about this case. But as time went on and she kept attacking innocent people who struggle, the more I developed strong disapproval of her. And when someone starts to accuse me of being a murderer, despite the fact that I had nothing to do with that person who left, that's the moment when shit gets real for me. I'm not here to be attacked and if someone attacks me, I will defend myself. And I don't care about the background, whatever happened to you in the past does NOT justify being a complete asshole to a whole community who had nothing to do with the passing of her daughter. Nothing. She has to realize this and do some introspection.

The mom lost her child. I think she cares more about holding an opinion that blames others for her child's death, so she can live with herself and function day to day, rather than care about what strangers think about her.

 

[MAIO]

It's old news by now. What can I say? It seems like the battle to take down this site is failing, though perhaps we need to wait and see what happens. I honestly doubt they will be successful in taking down this site because it's in another country altogether. Even if they manage to take it down. Someone else will put one up in the future. The truth will always prevail no matter what despite the witch hunts. Mob rule won't work long term.

Sweden would be most ideal since this website would be completely legal there.

 

[HGL91]

@Asta So true about life being too long! Feels like it took forever to get to 27 years old! Been on this earth for about 10,000 days and that's quite enough for me!

 

[MAIO]

@Lifeisatrap
LAH is an acronym for the website "Lost All Hope",
which outlines various methods, but tends to try to talk you out of suicide if they can.
http://lostallhope.com/terms-use

I think lost all hope is worse than pro-life websites. I felt like it tries to get you to lose all hope is being able to successfully commit suicide among other causes.

 

[color_me_gone]

lose all hope in being able to successfully commit suicide

Yeah, I got that exact same feeling.
Funny how they don't mention the more successful and peaceful methods like N or SN.

 

[MAIO]

Yeah, I got that exact same feeling.
Funny how they don't mention the more successful and peaceful methods like N or SN.

It also lies and presents stats dishonestly. Ie, Suicide is for one reason, not being able to cope. Exploits people fear of failing. Even if you shoot yourself in the head you may fail!! (No if you do it right with the right gun in the right a lot you would not fail and you could always just combine methods if you are that worried about it etc.)

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

You know if my daughter killed hserself I'd consider reflecting on my own behaviour before I started casting about for scapegoats.



And you obviously had no idea how severe they were. You daughter wanted to die, and you didn't even know it. Speaks volumes about your level of trust and communication.



Yeah you were clearly shining beacons of support who could not possibly have been more supportive or had a more perfect relationship with your daughter. No need to look in the mirror. Just blame the evil death-cult that only exists in your imagination. They clearly had more influence over her behaviour than you did, right? I mean obviously.

THIS !!!
ITA … It's the internets fault. GMAFB !!! I am sorry for her loss but I doubt anyone was "Cheering her on" I do wish people peace if they decide to end it.
It is what I want … but if someone decides not to go through with it, I hope it works out for them.
So … we are the evil death cult … it's OUR responsibility to stop someone from killing themselves. Looking for someone else to blame for their failures.
I consider Pro-Lifers a Cult … keeping people here in pain and suffering until their dying breath.
So many old people or people at any age who are wishing they could die with dignity …. but no … let's watch them suffer just so we can be happy.

 

[Meretlein]

This forum can be responsibe for the death young people/Adults in the sense that they may not have comitted suicide without having methods and support from this community. I am sympathetic to Shawn's mother's crusade against SS, because I can see how it played a direct part in the suicide of her daughter which is one of the most tramautazing experiences a mother can go thorugh. I can understand her point of view even if I dont' entirely agree with it.

Like I said before. I am completely for legalizing euthanasia so that people caught in a chronic hopeless condition can get professional help to die peacefully if that's what they wish.

What I said is that I don't support assisted suicide for all adults whatever their reason is.

Let me give an example. A 25 year old friend has an episode of depression triggered because his girlfriend of 5 years left him. This makes him acutely sudicidal. Should we give such a person the methods and support to suicide or would it be wiser and kinder to encourage him to be patient and remind that there are pleny fish in the sea?

In such a situation I think the latter action is the right one. That's an example why I don't agree with supporting suicide for adults no matter what their reason is.


I don't think we neccessarily should tell people to rethink suicide when they make a goodbye thread. I was pointing out that due to the culture and rules here, we are basicly not allowed to. Which is why I understand that Shawn's mother thinks this is evil site, because we are generally not really allowed to talk people out of their imminent suicide no matter what the reasons are for that suicide. So basicly you are only allowed to offer support.

If I told a bunch of friends that I am going to a bridge to jump to my death and they don't intervene and tell me good luck then I would say, that they have support my suicide.

From what I have heard and read, it doesn't seem like Shawn was in the same category as your friend. She had been suicidal since she was a teenager. News articles mention them trying medicines, therapy, and hypnosis. This was for years too. Jackie said that they had a bouncer at her funeral because people were saying that Shawn's suicide was no surprise.

People here are picking up on her not understanding the full scope of Shawn's problems and blaming us for everything.

 

[Shamana]

From what I have heard and read, it doesn't seem like Shawn was in the same category as your friend. She had been suicidal since she was a teenager. News articles mention them trying medicines, therapy, and hypnosis. This was for years too. Jackie said that they had a bouncer at her funeral because people were saying that Shawn's suicide was no surprise.

People here are picking up on her not understanding the full scope of Shawn's problems and blaming us for everything.

I agree, I'm just saying that most bereaved parent's who been on a vendetta to close this place down if they knew their children had comitted suicide with methods and support from this place. I just think it's awfully unclassy to call Shawn's mother a "shit mother" and say that she's responsible for her daugther's suicide. I didn't know Shawn at all, but I'm not sure that she would approve of strangers saying that about her bereaved mother either.

If I comitted suicide with the aid of SS and my mother found out and went on a vendetta against the place, I would be vehemently against a bunch of strangers calling my mother a shit mother even if she in certain times of of my life has been a less than ideal mother. There have been times like now where she is a great mother. Lot's of humans are flawed, myself and probably a lot in here included.

 

[calendulo]

Right to die's boys and girls seem to me as this small joke.

A man is driving by the highway and then...turn on th radio.
Radio speaker says: Latest news!...A kamikaze driver is driving by the highway right now. Be careful everybody!.
Then.........The man says:.....Thre is not one single!.....There are thousand of them!.

If you do not think the same about right to die, or similar, of course.

We have not feelings, especially good feelings. And Opressors..........indeed, we are ultracatholics.....all of us.
We differentiated cases by their enviroment....more aspect about.
I am a monster. I apologise, really.
Shawn Shatto was disillusioned with life, it is too bad. She was young and she does not know everything about life. A bad streak.
It was Shawn Shatto's mother fault. Indeed....and worse thing...She already knows it.
The system too, mainstream or you whatever called it....Fault......therefore it was my fault as well. It was everybody fault.

 

[oopswronglife]

@calendulo

Honestly I cannot understand half of what you are saying. Now first and foremost my Spanish is shite and I know that when speaking in other languages that I am not super fluent in it's very hard to get my point across, so this isn't some slag about smarts or anything. I am fortunate this site is in one I am fluent in. That said, because of this confusion, I am honestly not sure what your position is. I have seen several messages where you seem to slag off members, pro-choice, and others like us. The previous message by me in this thread was responding to one saying essentially that pro-choice activists are somehow wrong because they talk about it but are still alive. I've seen you make other comments calling people not serious or suicidal enough etc. But your last post seems to take the opposite side of the issue. If that interpretation was wrong I'd like to know so I don't have a false view of someone.

I don't know if you are using Google translate or are doing it in your head, but it's very difficult to understand you a lot of the time and I'd like to know what you actually mean so I'm not being unfair. If you care to at all, feel free to respond in Spanish if it is easier to express yourself, and I will muddle through it on my end.

 

[calendulo]

@oopswronglife

Your post sound very ugly to me. Think about that. Do you understand?. I hope so.
Bye and good luck.