Discussion what counts as a suicide attempt?

[Awesomefoid67]

i havent been able to find a good answer to this question really so i thought i'd ask, to you what counts as an attempt? what factors go in to determing whether it is/isnt one?

i'll get some examples from my life to like start the discussion:

when i was way younger a couple times i threatened to like grab a knife and kill myself with it or jump out my window and my parents had to physically stop me. idk if i actually wouldve gone through with it if i did but i still tried to get to them. does that count?

i've also ordered sn with the intention of using it to end my own life but didnt go through with it and lost the sn. does that count?

another example, a few weeks ago i half heartedly tried to tie a noose to try and hang myself with but i couldnt even tie it properly cus i was drunk. does that count?

and now a way more outlandish example, i got the covid vaccine and a booster because i was hoping that i would get some negative lethal side effect. does that count?

 

[madeincruddy]

It's hard to say. I'd definitely count your noose example as an attempt, since you had full intent to kill yourself in that moment. Trying to think of other examples, I'd consider travelling to a jump site as an attempt, even if you back down once you're there. Maybe it's the 'putting a plan into action' aspect. Like, if someone began their SN protocol but abandoned it partway through, I'd still consider that an attempt. I've had similar experiences to your first example where I was suicidal as a kid but had no information irt proper methodology so I tried to strangle myself with my hands/scarves, which obviously didn't do anything, IDK if I'd consider that an attempt lol, it's hard to take myself serious when I think about that

 

[zam_zam]

i havent been able to find a good answer to this question really so i thought i'd ask, to you what counts as an attempt? what factors go in to determing whether it is/isnt one?

i'll get some examples from my life to like start the discussion:

when i was way younger a couple times i threatened to like grab a knife and kill myself with it or jump out my window and my parents had to physically stop me. idk if i actually wouldve gone through with it if i did but i still tried to get to them. does that count?

i've also ordered sn with the intention of using it to end my own life but didnt go through with it and lost the sn. does that count?

another example, a few weeks ago i half heartedly tried to tie a noose to try and hang myself with but i couldnt even tie it properly cus i was drunk. does that count?

and now a way more outlandish example, i got the covid vaccine and a booster because i was hoping that i would get some negative lethal side effect. does that count?

You took the COVID vaccine goy, your CEO is really happy.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I've noticed a few posts similar to this. I suppose I'm curious about their motive. What is the person wanting to prove to themselves? That their situation is genuine and serious? I think contemplating suicide alone is pretty serious. When it evolves into researching and preparing/ enacting methods, it seems even more serious.

As for actual attempts though- I suppose I feel personally that it's probably a combination of actions and intent. I tend to think- in that moment- if the person is determined to try to die and begins to make steps towards doing that- it probably is an attempt.

I suppose to define it though- in my own mind- I think of it legally and compare it to homicide. Someone who buys and carries a knife around won't be convicted of attempted murder unless they do something threatening with it. They could even be gripping the handle in their pocket but- so long as they don't start waving it around with intent- it's still contemplating murder rather than attempting it.

From the descriptions you gave- the first one sounds the most like an actual attempt- if in that moment you felt committed to doing it but, your parents stopped you. I suppose setting up a noose is also edging towards attempting.

Buying stuff or thinking about suicide- I'm not really sure about so much. We can buy stuff or do potentially reckless things with the intent of hopefully dying but, it doesn't seem quite so intentioned as performing an action we feel confident will lead to death.

The covid jab sounds a little more like passive ideation. I imagine a lot of suicidal people contemplate their potential death multiple times a day. Maybe this pain I have will end up being cancer. Maybe it will kill me etc.

That's not to doubt how seriously you are contemplating it. It's a complicated question though- really. I have a friend who overdosed twice on OTC medication. Clearly, their intention was so strong, they were willing to potentially only maim themselves. But then- was it a logical choice? Especially the second attempt. When they already experienced the first had failed, did they truly believe the second would work? But then, they said outright- they were more in a desperate state and, not thinking logically.

I suppose I feel like there are various substages to attempting. A few members have mixed SN and sat staring at it before backing out. They no doubt began by being certain they would attempt that day. They likely fasted and took meds to prepare for it. That's obviously much closer to attempting than just buying SN. There again- it's not as near attempting as someone who actually drank it but then called emergency services or was interupted.

 

[zam_zam]

i havent been able to find a good answer to this question really so i thought i'd ask, to you what counts as an attempt? what factors go in to determing whether it is/isnt one?

i'll get some examples from my life to like start the discussion:

when i was way younger a couple times i threatened to like grab a knife and kill myself with it or jump out my window and my parents had to physically stop me. idk if i actually wouldve gone through with it if i did but i still tried to get to them. does that count?

i've also ordered sn with the intention of using it to end my own life but didnt go through with it and lost the sn. does that count?

another example, a few weeks ago i half heartedly tried to tie a noose to try and hang myself with but i couldnt even tie it properly cus i was drunk. does that count?

and now a way more outlandish example, i got the covid vaccine and a booster because i was hoping that i would get some negative lethal side effect. does that count?

I threatened my parents too one time. Rope feels like a really bad way to go so I would probably not try that shit.

 

[Awesomefoid67]

I've noticed a few posts similar to this. I suppose I'm curious about their motive. What is the person wanting to prove to themselves? That their situation is genuine and serious? I think contemplating suicide alone is pretty serious. When it evolves into researching and preparing/ enacting methods, it seems even more serious.

As for actual attempts though- I suppose I feel personally that it's probably a combination of actions and intent. I tend to think- in that moment- if the person is determined to try to die and begins to make steps towards doing that- it probably is an attempt.

I suppose to define it though- in my own mind- I think of it legally and compare it to homicide. Someone who buys and carries a knife around won't be convicted of attempted murder unless they do something threatening with it. They could even be gripping the handle in their pocket but- so long as they don't start waving it around with intent- it's still contemplating murder rather than attempting it.

From the descriptions you gave- the first one sounds the most like an actual attempt- if in that moment you felt committed to doing it but, your parents stopped you. I suppose setting up a noose is also edging towards attempting.

Buying stuff or thinking about suicide- I'm not really sure about so much. We can buy stuff or do potentially reckless things with the intent of hopefully dying but, it doesn't seem quite so intentioned as performing an action we feel confident will lead to death.

The covid jab sounds a little more like passive ideation. I imagine a lot of suicidal people contemplate their potential death multiple times a day. Maybe this pain I have will end up being cancer. Maybe it will kill me etc.

That's not to doubt how seriously you are contemplating it. It's a complicated question though- really. I have a friend who overdosed twice on OTC medication. Clearly, their intention was so strong, they were willing to potentially only maim themselves. But then- was it a logical choice? Especially the second attempt. When they already experienced the first had failed, did they truly believe the second would work? But then, they said outright- they were more in a desperate state and, not thinking logically.

I suppose I feel like there are various substages to attempting. A few members have mixed SN and sat staring at it before backing out. They no doubt began by being certain they would attempt that day. They likely fasted and took meds to prepare for it. That's obviously much closer to attempting than just buying SN. There again- it's not as near attempting as someone who actually drank it but then called emergency services or was interupted.

what would be the equivalent of if say the person with the knife was waving it about not with the intention of murder but like to intimidate or if they were going to murder someone but deep down they like knew they weren't actually going to or other things along those lines?

 

[Forever Sleep]

what would be the equivalent of if say the person with the knife was waving it about not with the intention of murder but like to intimidate or if they were going to murder someone but deep down they like knew they weren't actually going to or other things along those lines?

I imagine there are other offences they would be charged with.

As for the parallel with suicide attempts- when people (unadvisably) 'test' a small amount of SN maybe. Maybe do things on impulse. Not with serious conviction to die but more of an indifference either way.

Attempts that are intended as a 'cry for help' rather than a serious attempt maybe. So they will finally be taken seriously. There are sometimes posts here by people who want to make mock attempts so they will be noticed.

I suppose other practice runs too. I've checked out bridges in the past. I had no intention of jumping that day but, I wanted to take a look to see if there were prevention nets up. How high the barrier was etc. Also, just to get some sense of how it felt to stand there that high up.

Waving a knife around in public would be pretty stupid and reckless though so- I imagine it would be more like being in a frantic, impulsive state and attempting in a public place where it's very likely someone would intervene.

 

[Awesomefoid67]

I imagine there are other offences they would be charged with.

As for the parallel with suicide attempts- when people (unadvisably) 'test' a small amount of SN maybe. Maybe do things on impulse. Not with serious conviction to die but more of an indifference either way.

Attempts that are intended as a 'cry for help' rather than a serious attempt maybe. So they will finally be taken seriously. There are sometimes posts here by people who want to make mock attempts so they will be noticed.

I suppose other practice runs too. I've checked out bridges in the past. I had no intention of jumping that day but, I wanted to take a look to see if there were prevention nets up. How high the barrier was etc. Also, just to get some sense of how it felt to stand there that high up.

Waving a knife around in public would be pretty stupid and reckless though so- I imagine it would be more like being in a frantic, impulsive state and attempting in a public place where it's very likely someone would intervene.

so like would the indifferent ones and cry for help ones be considered "real"?

 

[Forever Sleep]

so like would the indifferent ones and cry for help ones be considered "real"?

It's hard to say really. This is only my own perspective too. The indifferent ones- maybe. If a person is so indifferent about living or dying, that pretty much suggests they are pretty open to die.

They could also be experiencing psychosis I suppose- if it's an impulsive attempt. I imagine in that moment though, they feel desperate enough to want to die.

As for a 'cry for help'. I suppose it depends on whether that was their intention or, what someone else labelled it. I think people are pretty cruel when they just label an attempt a 'cry for help' or 'need for attention'. I doubt it's always accurate too.

There again- I have read posts here by people who want to create mock suicides. Their goal clearly isn't to die but to hopefully make people take them seriously. So- that isn't so much an attempt as a kind of stunt.

With my friend's overdoses, it seemed more like it was an extreme act of self harm. We kind of both didn't understand one another's perspective. We both had ideation from a young age. I tend to feel like I would only attempt if I felt confident it would work. They felt like they could only attempt when they were in that desperate frame of mind and, it didn't seem so important that it probably wouldn't work.

That said, I think there's crossover too. People who have tested SN (again- very inadvisable to do) have said they were comfortable with dying as an outcome. I imagine that can happen too. Someone who is planning a mock suicide may still be comfortable with the possibility they may actually die- even though they are also hoping to survive and receive more support.

I've even heard some members say they feel like the only way they could muster the courage to do it if it was random. Say- have a bottle of pills to take one a day when only one pill will kill. I think some people feel like they need the 'Russian Roulette' scenario or even an impulsive attempt to get over their SI.

I suppose what matters is what the person themself is feeling though. They know more than anyone else where their head was at and what their intention was. I suspect we all make judgements towards each other but, only we can really know the truth.