Bull in a China shop
Self destruction button in play
- Oct 21, 2020
- 41
The vaccine is ready to go, will you have it before you ctb?
-
Hey Guest,
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x~Sophia~x
Always give 100% - unless you’re donating blood.
- Sep 10, 2020
- 1,361
Weightoftheworld
Let me burn.
- Apr 19, 2020
- 258
waterstrider
cold
- Nov 29, 2020
- 400
Yeah, I think so. I want to be able to partake in everyday activities freely until I ctb and if this stupid vaccine helps me - why not
DeathNoot
Student
- Feb 19, 2020
- 137
Not immediately, I don't leave the house anyways so, what is the point
issyishere
Goodnight and always remember that’s life
- Nov 5, 2019
- 441
Weird to see how many people saying no. For me it depends, If it comes out in the next few weeks and its cheap, sure why not. If it's later i'll probably be gone. I don't want to infect anyone else if I catch the virus or something and also give people peace of mind if I'm in public without a mask.
Metalhead
Born slippy
- Sep 21, 2020
- 214
I will. I have severe intrinsic asthma that is triggered by viral illness. Yes, covid would very likely kill me, but I don't want to die feeling that sick and drowning in my own lungs. It sounds awful. On the other had at least people around me would feel better about my death since Covid did it not me.
the-exit-plan
porter robinson - fellow feeling
- Nov 20, 2020
- 25
I refuse.
I've never gotten the flu vaccine.
I won't get this one.
I've never gotten the flu vaccine.
I won't get this one.
Undecided. Where i am, it won't be available for me before spring anyway, i'm not a " priority", whatever it means.
What a strange world we've become in 2020, it's hard to put words on it. The future is dark and scary.
What a strange world we've become in 2020, it's hard to put words on it. The future is dark and scary.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
I've never gotten the flu vaccine. I got a pneumonia vaccine and promptly got pneumonia. Will I get this vaccine? You bet your sweet ass I will! Of all the god forsaken, miserable, hellish ways to die covid is up there.
And you better hope you die rather than have the aftermath of it: never getting better, living in pain, not being able to take a deep breath, mental confusion, possible full body blood clots in arms and legs and brain, memory loss, being on kidney dialysis for life, legs amputated, blindness, on and on.
This is a disease unlike any other. It wrecks havoc on all body organs. Some people would be much better off dead than having survived it.
I have asthma and have experienced not being able to breathe and it's the most horrible experience I've ever had.
And you better hope you die rather than have the aftermath of it: never getting better, living in pain, not being able to take a deep breath, mental confusion, possible full body blood clots in arms and legs and brain, memory loss, being on kidney dialysis for life, legs amputated, blindness, on and on.
This is a disease unlike any other. It wrecks havoc on all body organs. Some people would be much better off dead than having survived it.
I have asthma and have experienced not being able to breathe and it's the most horrible experience I've ever had.
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TroubledTroglodyte
Member
- Nov 16, 2019
- 9
I'm not certain how lethal the virus would be for someone like me, but if I were to catch it, or even better, suffer from some long term, permanently debilitating symptoms, I could have some meager amount of time off work, which would certainly grant some catharsis.
Nimbus
Hanging on is hard
- Dec 2, 2019
- 211
Absolutely. If I'm still around when it's widely available, that is (and I hope not to be). If it makes me less likely to be a carrier/spreader of the virus, why not?? It would help keep others safe even if I could care less about myself. I don't want to be an additional burden to our already overburdened health care system by getting covid.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
They are not sure if having the vaccine makes it so you can't spread the disease to others. You would be able to fight off the virus yourself but you could possibly still have some of it and spread it. They also don't know how long the vaccination will protect people. A few months? A year? No way to tell. It's likely you will need booster shots at intervals.
The first to get the vaccine will be medical workers and people in long term care homes, such as nursing homes where people are dying in large numbers. It will begin being distributed this month in the USA.
These vaccines require exceptionally cold temperatures beyond what ordinary refridgerators and achieve. So to have a fridge that can keep the vaccine at 70 degrees below zero isn't something most drugstores have, which is where the vaccine will be distributed mostly. Not sure how this will work, no one is. Not to mention having trucks that cold to transport it.
It also will require two shots one month apart. It will also probably cause a feeling of illness to some extent. How many got terribly sick from the vaccine has apparently been suppressed. At first I read of a few people who had ghastly complications from the vaccine but no more was ever written about that.
The first to get the vaccine will be medical workers and people in long term care homes, such as nursing homes where people are dying in large numbers. It will begin being distributed this month in the USA.
These vaccines require exceptionally cold temperatures beyond what ordinary refridgerators and achieve. So to have a fridge that can keep the vaccine at 70 degrees below zero isn't something most drugstores have, which is where the vaccine will be distributed mostly. Not sure how this will work, no one is. Not to mention having trucks that cold to transport it.
It also will require two shots one month apart. It will also probably cause a feeling of illness to some extent. How many got terribly sick from the vaccine has apparently been suppressed. At first I read of a few people who had ghastly complications from the vaccine but no more was ever written about that.
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Dr Iron Arc
Into the Unknown
- Feb 10, 2020
- 21,323
I normally hate vaccines because whenever I get them, I'm still the scared little 3 year old who fears needles. I haven't even gotten a flu shot in a while. I once read a book speculating on future technology and they suggested edible vaccines for all diseases and damn it that's what I still want. I just really, really don't like the vaccine needles.
And yet, I was going to be willing to take a Covid vaccine until Obama, Bill Clinton, and Bush Jr. all got together claiming they'd "volunteer" to be filmed taking it to prove that it's safe. That immediately struck me as a red flag considering Obama also tried the same thing twice before where he filmed himself drinking water from Flint, Michigan to prove it was clean...
Sadly, even without all that, a vaccine could become useless if Covid turns out to mutate into something the vaccines prove ineffective against and we have to start all over.
And yet, I was going to be willing to take a Covid vaccine until Obama, Bill Clinton, and Bush Jr. all got together claiming they'd "volunteer" to be filmed taking it to prove that it's safe. That immediately struck me as a red flag considering Obama also tried the same thing twice before where he filmed himself drinking water from Flint, Michigan to prove it was clean...
Sadly, even without all that, a vaccine could become useless if Covid turns out to mutate into something the vaccines prove ineffective against and we have to start all over.
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Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
That really was a let down, to see that. wtf. No one can be trusted.
I'm sure they expect it to continue to mutate. They are now about to kill all the minks in mink farms in the U.S. like they did in Denmark, because they found minks have a mutated strain of it that could probably spread to humans.
Dr Iron Arc
Into the Unknown
- Feb 10, 2020
- 21,323
Yeah, you can't even trust live film anymore with deepfakes and stuff out there. Or they could simply take a placebo vaccine to trick people.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
The part about needing to keep the vaccine at 70 degrees below zero is the weak link. That thing will surely get heated up at some point in the distribution chain. Then it won't work. When it warms up that's when it "launches" into action.
Weary Soul
Soon I will be free
- Nov 13, 2019
- 1,156
This, to me, is a very good question!
And in my case, No.
Mainly because I plan to ctb before the end of the month if my money does not run out before hand, I live alone and rarely venture outside, supplies for the vaccine are limited, and IMO the vaccine should go to those who want to live (unlike me) and first responders prior to anyone else.
However, say for the moment that I am not planning to ctb in the near future or at all (as is the case for many here).
Under this scenario, I would still wait as long as I could for many reasons. The primary one?
I worked in big-Pharma for many, many years, and while a Covid vaccine is essential, it has been approved for administration in the general population under an unprecedented and extremely expedited timeline relative to any medication I have ever seen.
For those not familiar with the approval process of a medication, this typically takes many, many years - from conception of a new molecular entity, to in vitro studies, pre-clinical studies in animals, and finally, if it makes it that far, Phase 1 through 3 clinical studies in humans.
Overall, the total sample size across all studies in humans(Phases 1 through 3), is infinitesimal relative to the general population (talking about 1000's of patients here relative to post-approval where that medication becomes available to the general population comprised of millions or more).
We can create predictive models and extrapolate expected outcomes based on these model onto a wider population; however, these analyses, while good, are not infallible. Once a medication hits the open market, there have been many cases where that medication has caused significant harm up to and including death due to causes not seen in clinical trials prior to approval of that medication.
One med that I worked on many, many years ago was a new antibiotic being developed by one of the top 10 Pharma companies that is still going strong today. Keep in mind that at this time there was a plethora of other antibiotics already on the market that had been administered for decades, and at that time, resistance to antibiotics had not yet been a thing - I am so dating myself here - ha!!)
With respect to the medication I worked on, during the pre-approval process, there was no indication of significant safety concerns such that this medication should not hit the open market or be administered as other than first line therapy for common infections (such as ear infections, sinus infections, bronchitis, etc.). Note that it too was conducted on an experimental expedited timeline (and at that time - expedited meant 2 years of studies in humans).
It was approved and because of extensive marketing, 100,000 scripts or samples were given out in the 1st month post-approval.
Among the patients who received the med, there was one known case of a 26-year-old man who was otherwise extremely healthy and who was given samples of this new antibiotic from his doc for a sinus infection. Within 2 days of starting treatment, he died of multi-organ failure. There was no other apparent cause of death except the newly prescribed antibiotic.
The Pharma company in question elected to pull the medication from the market - not for moral/ethical reasons or because the FDA required that they do so - but because they had another antibiotic in the pipeline that showed even more promising results, and they wanted to maintain a benevolent public image to promote that newer antibiotic.
Their strategy worked and that 2nd antibiotic in the pipeline is one of the most widely prescribed antibiotics worldwide. In fact, I would not be surprised if the vast majority of people here who have ever had an otherwise minor infection have received this antibiotic at some point in their life - that is how widely it has been prescribed.
Alla that being said, the risk of a medication must always be evaluated in balance with its potential benefit (called the risk/benefit ratio of a med in the industry). Here is an example, the benefit of administering insulin in patients with Type 1 diabetes far outweighs the risks of not administering insulin.
With this in mind, I believe that those at highest risk of exposing themselves and/or transmitting Covid to others should receive it first (ie, first responders) note that they should also be fully apprised that receiving the inoculation may be a risk based on the rapidity of development and approval. At the same time, for those who are able to stay at home and wait, there is great benefit to waiting to receive the inoculation in order to gather additional safety data prior to being innoculated.
Of course, this is my opinion only based on what I have previously seen.
I could go on and on and on about the horrors I have seen in the Pharma industry. It is truly appalling.
Oh wow - I just had a total soap box moment... ::blushes:: ... ok... stepping off my soap-box now and putting the megaphone down.
Apologies for the rant, this has always been a pet-peeve of mine!
<3
And in my case, No.
Mainly because I plan to ctb before the end of the month if my money does not run out before hand, I live alone and rarely venture outside, supplies for the vaccine are limited, and IMO the vaccine should go to those who want to live (unlike me) and first responders prior to anyone else.
However, say for the moment that I am not planning to ctb in the near future or at all (as is the case for many here).
Under this scenario, I would still wait as long as I could for many reasons. The primary one?
I worked in big-Pharma for many, many years, and while a Covid vaccine is essential, it has been approved for administration in the general population under an unprecedented and extremely expedited timeline relative to any medication I have ever seen.
For those not familiar with the approval process of a medication, this typically takes many, many years - from conception of a new molecular entity, to in vitro studies, pre-clinical studies in animals, and finally, if it makes it that far, Phase 1 through 3 clinical studies in humans.
Overall, the total sample size across all studies in humans(Phases 1 through 3), is infinitesimal relative to the general population (talking about 1000's of patients here relative to post-approval where that medication becomes available to the general population comprised of millions or more).
We can create predictive models and extrapolate expected outcomes based on these model onto a wider population; however, these analyses, while good, are not infallible. Once a medication hits the open market, there have been many cases where that medication has caused significant harm up to and including death due to causes not seen in clinical trials prior to approval of that medication.
One med that I worked on many, many years ago was a new antibiotic being developed by one of the top 10 Pharma companies that is still going strong today. Keep in mind that at this time there was a plethora of other antibiotics already on the market that had been administered for decades, and at that time, resistance to antibiotics had not yet been a thing - I am so dating myself here - ha!!)
With respect to the medication I worked on, during the pre-approval process, there was no indication of significant safety concerns such that this medication should not hit the open market or be administered as other than first line therapy for common infections (such as ear infections, sinus infections, bronchitis, etc.). Note that it too was conducted on an experimental expedited timeline (and at that time - expedited meant 2 years of studies in humans).
It was approved and because of extensive marketing, 100,000 scripts or samples were given out in the 1st month post-approval.
Among the patients who received the med, there was one known case of a 26-year-old man who was otherwise extremely healthy and who was given samples of this new antibiotic from his doc for a sinus infection. Within 2 days of starting treatment, he died of multi-organ failure. There was no other apparent cause of death except the newly prescribed antibiotic.
The Pharma company in question elected to pull the medication from the market - not for moral/ethical reasons or because the FDA required that they do so - but because they had another antibiotic in the pipeline that showed even more promising results, and they wanted to maintain a benevolent public image to promote that newer antibiotic.
Their strategy worked and that 2nd antibiotic in the pipeline is one of the most widely prescribed antibiotics worldwide. In fact, I would not be surprised if the vast majority of people here who have ever had an otherwise minor infection have received this antibiotic at some point in their life - that is how widely it has been prescribed.
Alla that being said, the risk of a medication must always be evaluated in balance with its potential benefit (called the risk/benefit ratio of a med in the industry). Here is an example, the benefit of administering insulin in patients with Type 1 diabetes far outweighs the risks of not administering insulin.
With this in mind, I believe that those at highest risk of exposing themselves and/or transmitting Covid to others should receive it first (ie, first responders) note that they should also be fully apprised that receiving the inoculation may be a risk based on the rapidity of development and approval. At the same time, for those who are able to stay at home and wait, there is great benefit to waiting to receive the inoculation in order to gather additional safety data prior to being innoculated.
Of course, this is my opinion only based on what I have previously seen.
I could go on and on and on about the horrors I have seen in the Pharma industry. It is truly appalling.
Oh wow - I just had a total soap box moment... ::blushes:: ... ok... stepping off my soap-box now and putting the megaphone down.
Apologies for the rant, this has always been a pet-peeve of mine!
<3
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Nimbus
Hanging on is hard
- Dec 2, 2019
- 211
That may be true but I'd rather take my chances with it than without it. Even if it only reduces my chances of getting (or spreading) covid by a small margin, that's an improvement. In my opinion.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
They have so far approved medical workers and those in long term care facilities to get the first batches of it starting this month. Then first responders, and essential workers such as those who work in grocery stores, police, and firemen. Then the elderly and those with pre existing conditions.
So it's going to be well tested by the time it gets to the rest of the population. By this time next year everyone who wants it should be able to get it if not sooner. It protects up to 90% of those who get it and the Moderna one protects over 95%. In fact NO ONE got covid in the 30,000 group of test participants. It's the Pfeizer one that will roll out first.
Wouldn't it be nice if we had the option of getting N instead of the vaccine, our choice?
So it's going to be well tested by the time it gets to the rest of the population. By this time next year everyone who wants it should be able to get it if not sooner. It protects up to 90% of those who get it and the Moderna one protects over 95%. In fact NO ONE got covid in the 30,000 group of test participants. It's the Pfeizer one that will roll out first.
Wouldn't it be nice if we had the option of getting N instead of the vaccine, our choice?
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Nimbus
Hanging on is hard
- Dec 2, 2019
- 211
Maybe I'm naive but I feel like most people would realize there is a greater degree of risk with any COVID vaccine due to the accelerated development and approval processes (as @Weary Soul detailed in her post).
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,726
Hell no.
Event 201 right before the outbreak showed how this was all scripted, from the outbreak to the responses. I think COVID was planned, and to have a vaccine so soon after the outbreak tells me that was planned, too.
They're not even trying to hide this shit (except for who "they" are), they intentionally put it out there that it's all a big mind fuck. Same with 9/11 -- the second tower being hit was reported on television in the UK before it happened.
My concern is that people will be limited in social participation and movement if they don't get the vaccine, like not being able to go to grocery stores or travel between countries. I plan to be dead before then, but if not, when that's announced, that's when I'm exiting life.
Fuck this dystopian bullshit. Fuck "security." Fuck whatever is coming. Fuck Bill Gates and his creepy foundation. Fuck the UN. Fuck Elon Musk. Fuck fuck fuck fuck. Fuck autocorrect for changing fuck to duck.
Event 201 right before the outbreak showed how this was all scripted, from the outbreak to the responses. I think COVID was planned, and to have a vaccine so soon after the outbreak tells me that was planned, too.
They're not even trying to hide this shit (except for who "they" are), they intentionally put it out there that it's all a big mind fuck. Same with 9/11 -- the second tower being hit was reported on television in the UK before it happened.
My concern is that people will be limited in social participation and movement if they don't get the vaccine, like not being able to go to grocery stores or travel between countries. I plan to be dead before then, but if not, when that's announced, that's when I'm exiting life.
Fuck this dystopian bullshit. Fuck "security." Fuck whatever is coming. Fuck Bill Gates and his creepy foundation. Fuck the UN. Fuck Elon Musk. Fuck fuck fuck fuck. Fuck autocorrect for changing fuck to duck.
Nimbus
Hanging on is hard
- Dec 2, 2019
- 211
Personally, I'd LOVE this option. Think of all the resources we'd save the healthcare systems that could be otherwise directed to COVID patients!
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
Voluneer for vaccine made sick
Volunteer in Astra Zenica vaccine trial develops serious neurological problem makes me think of paralysis, parkinsons, multiple sclerosis. The immune system is activated in a way that it goes on a rampage attacking nerve cells probably
Just keep your SN close at hand for any emergencies.
Volunteer in Astra Zenica vaccine trial develops serious neurological problem makes me think of paralysis, parkinsons, multiple sclerosis. The immune system is activated in a way that it goes on a rampage attacking nerve cells probably
Just keep your SN close at hand for any emergencies.
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FatalSystemError591
{He/They}
- Oct 12, 2020
- 229
I will, because I want my death to be on my terms
Weary Soul
Soon I will be free
- Nov 13, 2019
- 1,156
What I spoke about above speaks to short-term benefits and safety.
Over my time in Pharma, it came to light that there is also a risk of unforeseen long-term severe safety risks with some medications. Vioxx is one example. For those not familiar with Vioxx, it was an NSAID that over-time was significantly correlated with a higher-risk of heart attack and death. Vioxx was pulled off the market. Another example is related to an OTC PPI, which showed a higher risk of all-cause mortality relative to the general population after long-term use.
Because of these trends, regulatory authorities (such as the FDA), changed the guidelines for approval of medications such that now manufacturers are required to initiate post-approval safety surveillance and post-approval studies must be done.
So, while initial results from clinical trials for the Covid vaccine may seem very promising and I am so very hopeful that it will work - especially for those in critical need of it right now. I am cautiously optimistic. The studies were rushed which in and of itself lends to error and bias, no long-term safety data are yet available, and the study designs and specific data breakdown of results are not available to review.
My government has already lied to me about Covid.
I would not be surprised if there was some fudging of the truth about the results of these studies as well. For example, in these trials, was the active vaccine administered to patients in a 1:1 ratio vs. a placebo vaccine as a control, or was the ratio 1:100 active vs. placebo. This makes a huge difference. Also, IME - in any clinical trial, a % in and of itself can be misleading, at minimum the numerator and denominator that were used to calculate that % needs also be reported (Ieg, 1/10 = 10%; 1/100 =..... 1/1000 = ..... 1/10,000..... and so on). (Edited below)
Can you tell I am cynical :)
Please note, I realize that long-term safety risks may not apply to all here and that seems to me to be a vital factor to take into consideration with respect to getting inoculated. In addition, this is only my opinion. People must make their own decisions given their personal situation.
<3
Sighs, on edit - my % example made very little sense - I am tired and the old synapses are having fun shooting fireworks in my brain instead of actually thinking - but that is nothing new. Hmm, lemme try again. While 2/10 patients = 20% the sample size (denominator) is way too low to draw any definitive conclusions in a scientific study. Now, 200/1000 patients also = 20%, given that the sample size is so much larger (1000 patients) this would make a much more valid statement. Ok, I should probably quit typing now :)
Over my time in Pharma, it came to light that there is also a risk of unforeseen long-term severe safety risks with some medications. Vioxx is one example. For those not familiar with Vioxx, it was an NSAID that over-time was significantly correlated with a higher-risk of heart attack and death. Vioxx was pulled off the market. Another example is related to an OTC PPI, which showed a higher risk of all-cause mortality relative to the general population after long-term use.
Because of these trends, regulatory authorities (such as the FDA), changed the guidelines for approval of medications such that now manufacturers are required to initiate post-approval safety surveillance and post-approval studies must be done.
So, while initial results from clinical trials for the Covid vaccine may seem very promising and I am so very hopeful that it will work - especially for those in critical need of it right now. I am cautiously optimistic. The studies were rushed which in and of itself lends to error and bias, no long-term safety data are yet available, and the study designs and specific data breakdown of results are not available to review.
My government has already lied to me about Covid.
I would not be surprised if there was some fudging of the truth about the results of these studies as well. For example, in these trials, was the active vaccine administered to patients in a 1:1 ratio vs. a placebo vaccine as a control, or was the ratio 1:100 active vs. placebo. This makes a huge difference. Also, IME - in any clinical trial, a % in and of itself can be misleading, at minimum the numerator and denominator that were used to calculate that % needs also be reported
Can you tell I am cynical :)
Please note, I realize that long-term safety risks may not apply to all here and that seems to me to be a vital factor to take into consideration with respect to getting inoculated. In addition, this is only my opinion. People must make their own decisions given their personal situation.
<3
Sighs, on edit - my % example made very little sense - I am tired and the old synapses are having fun shooting fireworks in my brain instead of actually thinking - but that is nothing new. Hmm, lemme try again. While 2/10 patients = 20% the sample size (denominator) is way too low to draw any definitive conclusions in a scientific study. Now, 200/1000 patients also = 20%, given that the sample size is so much larger (1000 patients) this would make a much more valid statement. Ok, I should probably quit typing now :)
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