Help They found my SN!

[MeltingHeart]

Disaster-my step mum found my SN in the post-they know its for a purpose-because it says toxic on it- and they know i feel suicidal! I am not allowed to go outside and people are on their way??! will I be admitted? I wish they would just let me do what I want to do-instead of prolonging the agony! it would be better for everyone-sending me away wont help-I will still feel the same-if not way way worse when I come out! this is so f**ked up :( :(

 

[mrwolf]

So sorry that happened! Tell them you are going to cure / age some meat with it?

 

[MeltingHeart]

So sorry that happened! Tell them you are going to cure / age some meat with it?

they arent stupid-ive been suffering from severe depression-they know i have little desire to live and they know that-also im vegetarian :(
they only want to force me to stay alive-so they dont have to deal with the guilt or other people knowing they may have contributed to it. Not because of any love or care or not wanting me to do it. and now they want to suffer the indignity of a mental hosp-which will just compound things for me.

 

[Thanatos]

Similiar thing happened to me with my N over a year ago. I went to the ward fyi

 

[RightToExit]

they arent stupid-ive been suffering from severe depression-they know i have little desire to live and they know that-also im vegetarian :(
they only want to force me to stay alive-so they dont have to deal with the guilt or other people knowing they may have contributed to it. Not because of any love or care or not wanting me to do it. and now they want to suffer the indignity of a mental hosp-which will just compound things for me.

This is why any honest conversation with family members is a mistake for suicidal people. That goes even more for any kind of health "professional". These are not your allies.

I can't tell you what you should do now, only what I would do if I were in your situation:

1. Don't talk about suicide. Don't admit any form of suicidal thoughts or feelings. Don't use emotional language at all. Use only factual, logical language. Like a lawyer would.

2. Emphasize that you don't consent to any coercion. You don't consent to the violation of your property rights (the SN belongs to you, and it's not illegal.) You don't consent to any forced treatment. You don't consent to any physical contact. You don't consent to any forced medication. Repeatedly use human rights framing. If they want to take something away from you, repeat that you don't consent to the violation of your property rights. If they want to touch you, repeat that you don't consent to the violation of your bodily autonomy rights. If they want to bring you to a facility you don't want to be in, repeat that you don't consent to the violation of your right to free movement. If they want to force you to take drugs you don't want to take, repeat that you don't consent to the violation of your patient autonomy. And so on.

3. All of this may not help. If they do coerce you, question the legality and emphasize you will consider your legal options. If all of that fails, wear the perfect mask, play along with their games, until you are out again. And then, when they least suspect it, take severe revenge for the violation of your rights. You did warn them, after all.

And needless to say, as soon as you can, get a place of your own.

 

[Thatch Cubes]

I ordered some veterinary N around half a decade ago just in case I would end up needing it. It was found by family, but I'd removed the label and tossed the packaging beforehand, so it was mistaken for some kind of medication. I hid it back away before they decided to begin asking more questions.

When someone finds mysterious hidden chemicals in bottled, capsule, or powdered form, the natural instinct is to assume that you either require it for a medical condition or that you're an addict. I think the best backup plan when trying to hide something like this is to cover it up with an embarrassing, easy-to-understand explanation that most people will be satisfied with.

e: If you do get Bakered, you're better off playing along than trying to assert your rights. People will see what they wish to see regardless of your intentions, and as this isn't a criminal case, demanding that they prove that you want to die beyond a reasonable doubt will just make you look more suspicious, just like those people who scream, "Am I being detained!?" as soon as they get pulled over for running a red light.

 

[RightToExit]

I ordered some veterinary N around half a decade ago just in case I would end up needing it. It was found by family, but I'd removed the label and tossed the packaging beforehand, so it was mistaken for some kind of medication. I hid it back away before they decided to begin asking more questions.

When someone finds mysterious hidden chemicals in bottled, capsule, or powdered form, the natural instinct is to assume that you either require it for a medical condition or that you're an addict. I think the best backup plan when trying to hide something like this is to cover it up with an embarrassing, easy-to-understand explanation that most people will be satisfied with.

e: If you do get Bakered, you're better off playing along than trying to assert your rights. People will see what they wish to see regardless of your intentions, and as this isn't a criminal case, demanding that they prove that you want to die beyond a reasonable doubt will just make you look more suspicious, just like those people who scream, "Am I being detained!?" as soon as they get pulled over for running a red light.

If you don't assert your rights while your rights are being violated, it will be construed as consensual.

 

[Rachel74]

In the U.K. I'd go for a voluntary section then it looks like you want help (you don't really)
Can you not hide the SN?

 

[TAW122]

Ugh that sucks and I'm sorry to hear about this. As far as what @RightToExit says, I am in favor of getting justice and revenge for the people that have made your life miserable or caused harm to you, but on a more serious note, yes it's important to stand up for one's rights, but also you need to be judicious in how you do it as to not make things worse as they have the power and you oftenly don't. @Thatch Cubes made a good point too, being too aggressive can WORK against someone but I also don't agree with being a total pushover either, meaning allowing them to walk all over and take advantage of the patient because they feel like the patient is some easy target.

 

[LonelyLight]

I'm sorry I have no advice to offer, I just really hope you are okay!!

 

[color_me_gone]

they only want to force me to stay alive-so they dont have to deal with the guilt or other people knowing they may have contributed to it. Not because of any love or care or not wanting me to do it.

My heart goes to you!
Yeah, if they had shown genuine love to you, chances are you would not even be suicidal.
Genuine parental love provides a solid foundation, such that even outside influences, such as bullying, will not cause you depression, because your rock is at home.
Many parents are selfish, and think of themselves, more than they do their kids.
So they only worry about how your suicide will make THEM look, as you said.
Here is some LOVE and HUGS to you.

 

[Ruffian]

Ugh. Sorry. Take a page out of my book - the mentally ill do not have rights. I don't know if you're in the US, but it's ok here to fuck with your mail while in drug treatment, not allow you to request transfer to a place with more intensive psychiatric care, request to be put back on your psych meds, to request your outside doctors or therapist be contacted, and then almost be assaulted in a crisis center. And then they can make you look like YOU'RE crazy for leaving treatment AMA. Smile, nod, cry, then act like you had no idea what you were thinking. Lay low and somewhat happy and get a PO Box if you can. Yeah, I'm on the dark side today,

 

[JimFord99]

Disaster-my step mum found my SN in the post-they know its for a purpose-because it says toxic on it- and they know i feel suicidal! I am not allowed to go outside and people are on their way??! will I be admitted? I wish they would just let me do what I want to do-instead of prolonging the agony! it would be better for everyone-sending me away wont help-I will still feel the same-if not way way worse when I come out! this is so f**ked up :( :(

German style sausages are cured with SN, so is Italian style salami, esp the tasty donkey salami ( really nice to eat in fact) SN can be used for all sort of food stuff. It is not toxic if used in the correct way. Sugar is toxic if it is used in the wrong way.

 

[color_me_gone]

@JimFord99
Is it not SN that is used on fresh cut fruit and vegetables served at a salad bar - to keep them from quickly turning brown when the air (oxygen?) touches the cut areas?

 

[gingerplum]

German style sausages are cured with SN, so is Italian style salami, esp the tasty donkey salami ( really nice to eat in fact) SN can be used for all sort of food stuff. It is not toxic if used in the correct way. Sugar is toxic if it is used in the wrong way.

OP stated in a later response that she's known to be a vegetarian. On a personal note, I had NO idea donkeys were made into sausage. Gotta say, that's a pretty distressing thought.

@JimFord99
Is it not SN that is used on fresh cut fruit and vegetables served at a salad bar - to keep them from quickly turning brown when the air (oxygen?) touches the cut areas?

That's citric acid.

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[JimFord99]

You will be surprised in how many food products SN is being used. You are right, it prevents vegetables from turning brown and it gives meats that lovely red colour. It is in any preserved meat product I know, also, like you said, in preserved vegetables like olives and gherkins. Yum.

OP stated in a later response that she's known to be a vegetarian. On a personal note, I had NO idea donkeys were made into sausage. Gotta say, that's a pretty distressing thought.
Italians make food out of farmed animals. On a personal note, nothing wrong with that. I mean, the last time I went to Italy, that was 30 years ago. But I recalled that that stuff tasted really good.

That's citric acid.
Not just, read the small print of jars and packages, you will be surprised.

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[gingerplum]

You will be surprised in how many food products SN is being used. You are right, it prevents vegetables from turning brown and it gives meats that lovely red colour. It is in any preserved meat product I know, also, like you said, in preserved vegetables like olives and gherkins. Yum.

SN is used in curing and pickling, but I'm 90% sure that it's ascorbic and citric acid used on fresh cut fruits & veggies. But yeah, the point is, it's in plenty of foods at non-toxic doses.

 

[JimFord99]

SN is used in curing and pickling, but I'm 90% sure that it's ascorbic and citric acid used on fresh cut fruits & veggies. But yeah, the point is, it's in plenty of foods at non-toxic doses.

This is pretty much the unhealthy side of conserved food which causes problems like blood pressure, weight, heart problems, ...
Sorry, we are going a bit off topic but still nice to know.

 

[Ruffian]

All of a sudden I'm craving sausage and peppers

 

[JimFord99]

All of a sudden I'm craving sausage and peppers

This is another reason why SN is being put into food. I wants you to eat more and then drink more.

 

[gingerplum]

This is another reason why SN is being put into food. I wants you to eat more and then drink more.

This is why salty snacks like pretzels and salted nuts are "complimentary" at bars.

 

[JimFord99]

This is why salty snacks like pretzels and salted nuts are "complimentary" at bars.

Exactly. I know of two restaurants which makes their food a little bit more salty than they shoul,to boost the drinks sales.

 

[Stan]

It's tough to come up with a reason for SN. If you live with people and they don't see a big leg of freshly butchered pork with your SN, saying you are doing home curing will raise an eyebrow.

 

[JimFord99]

Well, how many delicacies have come from a home kitchen? Actually, was SN engineered or discovered by accident?

 

[ots]

OP is likely in a hospital as we speak...

If you do get caught with this stuff, there isn't much you can do. It is used for other purposes, but none of them pass as likely excuses. If you do get caught, they are going to want to send you to a hospital, unless you can talk them out of it. That would require a reliable support network of friends and family who you will argue will do a better job of taking care of you than a psych ward. Mental health workers aren't stupid; they know psych wards are pretty terrible places and in my experience, would rather try alternatives, if they exist. If they do, you must stress a willingness to aim for recovery. You will basically have to volunteer yourself to be watched pretty rigorously by family and friends. You probably won't want to do these things, but if you want to stay out of hospital, you have to give the doctors some reason to believe you will be alright without being admitted to a ward.

Someone also mentioned trying to hold on to the SN; I don't see that really happening. If people find it and it's a big enough deal to get doctors involved, they are gonna want to take it off you and I'm pretty sure they can. While it's not illegal to own SN, it's not about legality of the object, it's about duty of care between doctor and patient. If a doctor thinks you are a risk to yourself, they not only have a responsibility, but an obligation to deprive you of means to harm yourself. This will be by putting you in a hospital and making an order that your SN is disposed of, or by you voluntarily relinquishing your SN. It's really your choice. There is no situation where you both get to keep your SN and get to stay outside of a hospital.

I'm not a mental health worker or anything, but I have successfully talked my way out of being hospitalised on a couple of occasions. And also been hospitalised on a couple of other occasions where I handled the situation poorly. Cooperation with the health workers is the only way you get to go. Be difficult and you give them more reason to hospitalise you.

 

[JimFord99]

OK, I see your point. My experience: doctors don't really care. You get a 10 minute slot for an appointment, I never have been considered as a risk by doctors but I am.

 

[gingerplum]

Sorry your mother foiled your plan. I don't want to kick you when you're already so down, but you probably should have been camped out on that fucking mailbox.

Members living with other people, take note: know what time your mail comes and at least an approximate date of delivery so you can plan to get to the mailbox first.

This is why any honest conversation with family members is a mistake for suicidal people. That goes even more for any kind of health "professional". These are not your allies.

I can't tell you what you should do now, only what I would do if I were in your situation:

1. Don't talk about suicide. Don't admit any form of suicidal thoughts or feelings. Don't use emotional language at all. Use only factual, logical language. Like a lawyer would.

2. Emphasize that you don't consent to any coercion. You don't consent to the violation of your property rights (the SN belongs to you, and it's not illegal.) You don't consent to any forced treatment. You don't consent to any physical contact. You don't consent to any forced medication. Repeatedly use human rights framing. If they want to take something away from you, repeat that you don't consent to the violation of your property rights. If they want to touch you, repeat that you don't consent to the violation of your bodily autonomy rights. If they want to bring you to a facility you don't want to be in, repeat that you don't consent to the violation of your right to free movement. If they want to force you to take drugs you don't want to take, repeat that you don't consent to the violation of your patient autonomy. And so on.

3. All of this may not help. If they do coerce you, question the legality and emphasize you will consider your legal options. If all of that fails, wear the perfect mask, play along with their games, until you are out again. And then, when they least suspect it, take severe revenge for the violation of your rights. You did warn them, after all.

And needless to say, as soon as you can, get a place of your own.

Absolutely, 100% what @RightToExit said. Trust me, I've worked in psych in a lockdown unit (also been a "guest" against my will) and this is really critical info. Your presentation, affect, and overall demeanor will all be thoroughly documented. Commit your responses to memory, and practice now. Don't let them intimidate you; just because you're hospitalized doesn't mean you don't have basic human rights. Psych staff hates it when patients are well-versed in their rights. Even in refusing care, remain calm and try not to seem oppositional.

Now, keep in mind that your wishes can generally be overridden by the staff's assessment that you're temporarily incompetent and lack the capacity to make informed medical decisions; sadly, they do this A LOT, and terrifyingly, they get away with it. However, remaining calm and unemotional will prevent them from justifying a longer stay, and calmly asserting your rights lets them know you're aware that your basic human rights are being violated.

 

[JimFord99]

Sorry your mother foiled your plan. I don't want to kick you when you're already so down, but you probably should have made camp on that fucking mailbox.

Members living with other people, take note: know what time your mail comes and at least an approximate date of delivery so you can plan to get to the mailbox first.

not being sarcastic, ginger plum, bur where I live, they turn up (if they turn up at all) you could end up with a long wait. YEAH, British Mail, bring it on. I can already visualise the press head lines: post officer prevented suicide by not turning up. Sorry, very sarcastic but true.

 

[Stan]

Or see if you can get it delivered to a collection point instead of address

 

[JimFord99]

Or see if you can get it delivered to a collection point instead of address

eBay does click and collect on items...