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SaltySuh

Member
Aug 12, 2023
73
@Kasumi, I appreciate your contributions to this discussion. However, you seem to be of the opinion that barium salts have never been used in suicide and is therefore unreliable. This is false. Barium's use in suicide has been documented in scientific literature since the 1970's.[1][2][3][4] This is in stark contrast to sodium nitrite, which was first reported in the literature in 2010.[5]
 
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Kasumi

Kasumi

tired
Mar 3, 2023
482
@Kasumi, I appreciate your contributions to this discussion. However, you seem to be of the opinion that barium salts have never been used in suicide and is therefore unreliable. This is false. Barium's use in suicide has been documented in scientific literature since the 1970's.[1][2][3][4] This is in stark contrast to sodium nitrite, which was first reported in the literature in 2010.[5]
Barium salts aren't documented in detail like SN is here with hundreds of cases, detailing dose, other substances, timing, side effects, etc.
All we know about barium salts is that it works, not how much to take, when to take, interactions with other substances, expected side effects and how to avoid them optimally, etc
 
B

Badger88

Member
Sep 30, 2023
10
My meto was dispatched today, so the kit is coming together.
 
O

olearius

wannabe polymath
Jun 25, 2023
68
I want to add for any adventurous folks who want to test this without succeeding for documentation purposes - please be careful and mindful.

In the US, you won't be able to get enough potassium chloride OTC to reverse the effects of hypokalemia.

Additionally, as someone who has a potassium ion channelopathy disorder (my cells just randomly dump potassium and I can become paralyzed, and I could randomly go into cardiac arrest - hopefully), hypokalemia is *not* fun and likely to hurt. Rapid potassium loss will cause muscle cramps and spasms through your entire body, but especially your skeletal muscles (legs/arms). Personally, every episode I've had from my disorder was tolerable to me (not the worst thing I've experienced pain wise) - even the ones that landed me in the ER needing critical emergency care because I was actively dying. But I have been physically ill my whole life and am a child abuse survivor. Depending on your individual tolerance and threshold for pain, this may be a deciding factor for you.

Moreover, metabolic acidosis is not fun. Again I'm speaking from personal experience and as a healthcare worker who has seen it in patients. You will experience tachycardia (heart go really fast), difficulty breathing / chest discomfort (from tachycardia & acidification of your blood), air hunger, or the sense that you're not getting a full breath in (from acidification), you will have heart palpitations and you will get anxiety and might experience a sudden sense of doom and/or fear like you are going to die (idk this one might be a win to you) (from acidification of the blood & heart stuff). You will feel weak. You may develop a headache from low blood pressure.

If you survive due to someone's intervention, you can develop acute kidney injury from metabolic acidosis. That could go either way - it might result in you needing lifetime care (dialysis) due to permanent kidney damage, or you could recovery fully. The heart related stuff from hypokalemia might accelerate or uncover a pre-existing heart issue.

Again, I'm speaking from personal experience and as someone who has watched people die from these kinds of problems. Take it for a grain of salt. Only you know what you can tolerate.

I certainly don't want to steer anyone from their goals. I hope this can help people set realistic expectations.
 
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S

SaltySuh

Member
Aug 12, 2023
73
@olearius, I suspected this. That's why I explicitly added the following disclaimer after the sentence about potassium chloride: "I am not a physician and I make no promises in this regard."

@Kasumi, in regard to dose, here is what I found from the literature.

The first report comes from the Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery & Psychiatry in 1998:
"Barium blocks the potassium channels and thus potassium efflux from the muscle is reduced whereas the sodium-potassium pump is intact. This causes increased potassium in the muscle and decreased resting membrane potential. Barium acts mainly at the neuromuscular junction by this mechanism. The fatal dose of barium carbonate is 0.8 g and death occurs within 2–12 hours" (Kakar et al., 1998).
A second report comes from Forensic Science International in 2001:
"It is not known when the deceased ingested barium or when the first symptoms appeared nor the time lapse to death. It appears, however, that the clinical course was rapid. This is supported by the finding of a massive amount (10 g) of barium in the stomach, and a higher blood level when compared with bile and urine. The lethal dose of ingested barium is probably 0.8–0.9 g (or approx. 11 mg/kg) which is well below that in our case. Recovery may, however, occur with prompt treatment. Therefore, overdose may rapidly be fatal unless the situation is recognised and appropriate early aggressive therapeutic measures undertaken" (Jourdan et al., 2001).
A third report comes from the Journal of the
American Medical Association in 1934:
"A recent query in The Journal as to the toxicity of barium carbonate prompts the report of a case of poisoning by barium chloride in an amount well beyond the commonly fatal dose. A woman, aged 25, a stenographer in a chemical laboratory, asked one of the chemists for a teaspoonful of salt to relieve slight gastric distress. The chemist took a bottle out of the chemical cabinet under the impression that it contained sodium chloride and, glancing only at the "-ium chloride" of the label, gave her about a teaspoonful of barium chloride, which she immediately washed down with a glass of water" (Graham, 1934).
A fourth report comes from the Quarterly Bulletin of the Northwestern University Medical School in 1950:
"It has been reported that as little as 800 mg. of a soluble barium salt was fatal. The lethal doses of barium chloride when given to dogs cover a wide range of concentration. Aloy reported in his experiments that these doses ranged from 25 to 90 mg. per kg. Smith et al. found in their experiments that with continuous injection of barium until death the fatal dose varied from 42 to 87 mg. per kg. They further state that the rate of injection was not related to the size of the fatal dose. We have found in our experiments that as little as 2 mg. per kg. could cause death within a few seconds" (Nalefski et al., 1950).
A fifth report comes from the British Medical Journal in 1950:
"In the fatal case it was estimated that the patient, who was given half a glassful of barium cream, took three mouthfuls; this amount was estimated to contain approximately 1.7 oz. (53 g.).In the stomach barium carbonate is converted by the free hydrochloric acid, if present, into barium chloride; it is absorbed from the small intestine and not from the stomach; there is, therefore, a time lag before symptoms become apparent. Sydney Smith and Cook (1948) quote two fatal cases of barium carbonate poisoning after the ingestion of 1 dr. (4 g.). Fatal cases have also been recorded after 60 gr. (4 g.) of barium chloride (Blythe and Blythe, 1920; Sydney Smith, 1943) and after 12 gr. (0.8 g.) (Goodman and Gilman, 1941)" (Dean, 1950).
A sixth report comes from Journal of the American Medical Association in 1925:
"Witthaus and Becker report thirty cases of poisoning, with twenty deaths; of these poisonings, fourteen were by the chlorid, ten by the carbonate, four by the nitrate, and two by the acetate. Twenty-two were accidental, three were suicides, one was taken to produce abortion, and in the other three the motive was not stated. Schuchardt reported a death by 3 gm. of barium chlorid, which was not included in the number reported by Witthaus and Becker. In a review of the literature from 1910, twelve deaths from barium carbonate, six deaths from barium chlorid and four deaths from barium sulphid poisoning were found, to which should be added the following barium sulphid and barium carbonate deaths reported by me… [A] Filipino, aged 29, took 4 ounces of barium carbonate in a pint of milk. The physician had prescribed barium carbonate in place of barium sulphate" (McNally, 1925).
 
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SaltySuh

Member
Aug 12, 2023
73
In regards to the chronology (timeline) of events for barium poisoning, here is the following from Case Reports in 2009:
"The patients in this event passed though several stages. Initially all developed gastroenteritis, subsequently nervous system was affected as evident by tingling, numbness and limb weakness due to neuromuscular paralysis and later on some of them developed respiratory muscle paralysis" (Ghose, 2009).
As for the outcomes, nearly half of the individuals died:
"In this series 12 patients died. This is a much higher mortality than in any other previously reported case series and is surprising given the greater expected physical reserve of armed force personnel compared to general population. Another feature unique to this group is that they were all fasted for about 12 hours prior to poisoning. The long fast and fluid depletion might have accelerated the absorption of Ba carbonate and a larger than normal amount of food may have been consumed in one sitting following the fast. This may explain the rapid involvement of respiratory muscles leading to respiratory failure with hypokalaemia contributing" (Ghose, 2009)
 
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Kasumi

tired
Mar 3, 2023
482
The "respiratory muscle paralysis" sounds kinda worrying, I'd definitely want to knock myself out before that with a lot of benzos preferably.
It's a good sign they report doses of even below 1g as fatal, so even when accounting for variance between people and margin we probably don't need to go with something super high.

I still think barium chloride would be the preferred option over bicarbonate, even tho it converts to chloride in stomach acid, I don't wanna be that one person that just has a little low stomach acid or where the conversion draws out the time to death too much.
 
B

Battered_Seoul

Experienced
Jun 13, 2018
235
Appreciate the information.

What are the chances of this not being detected post-mortem, especially if the bulk of the product is disposed of pre-attempt?

Would gelatin capsules be a possibility? Unsure if I have to the audacity to neck this with a pint of milk.
Additionally, on this thread I've seen forensic reports talking about a lethal dose of carbonate as low as 0.8g but also knowledgeable posters mooting doses as high as 50g.

Just to be clear, and with absolutely no intention to hector, is the general recommended consensus somewhere in the middle? Of course, I appreciate this can't be exact but simply for my reference as I mull it over.

Profound thanks once again.
 
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SaltySuh

Member
Aug 12, 2023
73
@Battered_Seoul, here are my notes on detectability. They are based off the investigation into the death of Steven Robbard (who was murdered by his daughter in 1993 with barium acetate):
"Soon after attending an evening church service, Steve Robbard became ill. First, he had mild stomach cramps during dinner. Mr. Robbard subsequently moved himself to the living room, within minutes Mr. Robbard entered a coma-like state on the couch. Before the ambulance even arrived, Mr. Robbard entered into and died of cardiac arrest…The poisoner mixed the poison into Mr. Robbard's Mexican dinner-food. He died a few hours later. The autopsy report never detected the poison" (SaltySuh, 2023).
This is what Skip Hollandsworth (a reporter from Texas Monthly News) stated in regard to detection. This is in reference to the Robbard case:
"The chemical [they] used…The only way it could be detected was if the medical examiner [for Tarrant County] had a machine that cost $150,000…That could detect the trace of this chemical during the autopsy…Which they didn't have and which they never ever thought of using" (Hollandsworth qtd. in "Death Play", 2001).
A further and more recent report on the detectability of barium comes from a 2017 article in Federal Practitioner:
"Barium does not appear in usual heavy metal urine and blood screens and as a result may not be asked for if not thought of in the differential diagnosis. Physicians dealing with instances of recurrent suspected HPP that do not fit usual age and clinical characteristics for HPP, lack the single-nucleotide polymorphisms associated with the disease, and are not associated with other conditions causing severe hypokalemia, such as renal tubular acidosis, Bartter, Liddle or Gitelman syndrome or severe diuretic or licorice-induced hypokalemia should have soluble barium poisoning included in the differential diagnosis" (O'Neil & Siddiqui, 2017).
 
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Kasumi

Kasumi

tired
Mar 3, 2023
482
I think generally it really depends on what the rest of the situation looks like, as in, they do have the means to detect poisoning, but without them already having a hunch that it might be suicide based on other factors such as fasting, found in secluded area, etc, they usually don't go that far to do all those expensive tests in the first place.
@Battered_Seoul regarding dosage, it's just a lot of a mixed bag in this stage, we have some sources citing < 1g lead to death and we have the chemical information that states a LD50 (oran rat) per body weight which we usually use to estimate human lethal dose.

then there's the issue that there isn't just one barium salt but many and one dose that might work with one might not work with the other.
conversion rates in the stomach add even more complexity.

just think about SN, it's well understood by now that people died from a few grams already, even as low as 1 or 2g
while the median lethal dose is more around 12g, for average weight. then you still wanna double that to make sure, that's how the 25g for ~60kg got together for SN.
And just as people die from taking some 8g, people occasionally survive taking 16g, it's in general a real tricky problem and in the case of the barium salts there havn't been many cases that have been documented in detail yet.

My personal assumption would be for barium chloride to go with an assumed 160mg / kg since the LD50 is cited at around 80mg/kg coming out to ~9g if you weigh 55kg, ~11g if you're 70kg
 
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S

SaltySuh

Member
Aug 12, 2023
73
I think generally it really depends on what the rest of the situation looks like, as in, they do have the means to detect poisoning, but without them already having a hunch that it might be suicide based on other factors such as fasting, found in secluded area, etc, they usually don't go that far to do all those expensive tests in the first place.
@Battered_Seoul regarding dosage, it's just a lot of a mixed bag in this stage, we have some sources citing < 1g lead to death and we have the chemical information that states a LD50 (oran rat) per body weight which we usually use to estimate human lethal dose.

then there's the issue that there isn't just one barium salt but many and one dose that might work with one might not work with the other.
conversion rates in the stomach add even more complexity.

just think about SN, it's well understood by now that people died from a few grams already, even as low as 1 or 2g
while the median lethal dose is more around 12g, for average weight. then you still wanna double that to make sure, that's how the 25g for ~60kg got together for SN.
And just as people die from taking some 8g, people occasionally survive taking 16g, it's in general a real tricky problem and in the case of the barium salts there havn't been many cases that have been documented in detail yet.

My personal assumption would be for barium chloride to go with an assumed 160mg / kg since the LD50 is cited at around 80mg/kg coming out to ~9g if you weigh 55kg, ~11g if you're 70kg
@Kasumi, I never stated that barium was undetectable. Any non-endogenous substance or substance that doesn't metabolize into endogenous components can be detected through a thorough toxicology screen. However, nitrite and azide are easier to detect. In the case of nitrite, here are the findings:
"Autopsy examination revealed findings consistent with post-mortem signs of methemoglobinemia including blue-gray hypostasis (Fig. 2) and dark brown discoloration of the blood (Fig. 3) and internal organs in all but one case. In the latter, advanced decomposition impaired identification of characteristic post-mortem features" (Stephenson et al., 2022).
I don't know if its only me, but Smurf-colored skin and chocolate-colored blood seem to make it a lot easier to narrow down a possible agent as opposed to something that looks like a heart attack. In regard to azide, here are the findings:
"Postmortem examination did not show any cutaneous signs of injury due to a defensive struggle. Bilateral ungual cyanosis was observed as well as a major cerebral edema and visceral congestion on autopsy" (Tat et al., 2021).
Again, azide has fairly iconic external signs that help narrow down a possible cause. As far as barium is concerned, there are few signs that would point to barium poisoning specifically:
"Barium poisoning is an uncommon but potentially life-threatening poisoning that results in gastrointestinal toxicity and severe hypokalemia" (McNeil, 2019).
As for other signs, here is a some information from a murder trial that implicated barium:
"The wife was acquitted chiefly on two grounds:(1) the judge held that proof of poisoning by barium was incomplete, in that the doctor who did the post-mortem had not stated that the rectum was congested, and this is said in some books to be a sign to be found in fatal cases of barium poisoning, and in that we had not found barium on the bed linen; and (ii) the woman gave a defence that she had only given the powder as a love potion" (Newcomb, 1933).
Overall, pinpointing barium toxicity is more elusive than sodium nitrite or azide. It is not entirely impossible, though.
 
S

SaltySuh

Member
Aug 12, 2023
73
@Battered_Seoul As @Kasumi eluded to, there are three variables that go into determining dose for a barium suicide. These are as follows:

1. Solubility.

Insoluble salts are unsuitable for use as suicide agents. This naturally excludes the common sulfate for this purpose. The order of solubility for barium compounds is as follows (Kozempel, 2014):
CompoundSolubility mg/100ml water
Barium sulfate.22
Barium carbonate2.2
Barium sulfide7,860
Barium acetate(unknown, but likely similar to nitrate since there are no solubility rule exceptions for acetates)
Barium nitrate9,100
Barium chloride36,200
As illustrated, the most soluble compounds are the chloride and nitrate. Unsuprisingly, the nitrate and chloride are the most toxic (CDC, 2007).

2. Ability to dissociate in water

Toxicity is caused by the barium cation; therefore, the ability of the particular salt to dissociate in water and liberate the barium cation is very important. The strongest acid ions are the perchlorate, sulfate, iodide, bromide, chloride, and nitrate. The strongest base ions are the methide, hydride, amide, ethoxide, and sulfide (Rice University, 2016). Again, see how the most toxic barium salts (chloride and nitrate) have strong anions bonded to the barium cation.

3. Absorption

The third variable is absorption into the body. About 30% of a highly soluble barium salt is absorbed into the body (CDC, 2007). If the LD50 (dose at which 50% of group dies), as stated by @Kasumi, is 80mg/kg, then double it to ensure a good chance of success. This dose would be 14,400mg for a 90kg person. However, bioavailability should be accounted for. After accounting for a 30% bioavailabilty, the dose should be around 24g for a highly soluble salt.

Conclusions

My initial dose recommendation was 25g for a highly soluble salt (chloride, nitrate, sulfide, and acetate), and I stand by it. One publication reports that barium chloride is about as toxic sodium nitrite in general:
"Barium compounds are widely known to be toxic and again treated as such; sodium nitrite has similar toxicity ratings yet is treated in much the same way as we would sodium nitrate" (Crellin, 1989).
However, this publication also states that barium is likely more toxic in man than sodium nitrite:
"Interestingly a lowest known toxic (not fatal) dose of 14 mg kg-1 (equivalent to about 1 g for a 75 kg man) is reported for sodium nitrite, suggesting that, despite its low lethal dose for rats, it may not be as bad as barium chloride for man" (Crellin, 1989).
Furthermore, the same publication lists a dose of 900mg as the lethal dose for barium chloride and also provides a comparison to potassium cyanide (see Table 2):
CompoundFatal Dose (Human)
Potassium cyanide200mg
Barium chloride900mg
Table 2. (Crellin, 1989).

Sourcing

In regard to sourcing barium, many barium salts are sold as reagents by online retailers. However, should these become restricted, soluble barium salts can be found in the following products:

1. Barium sulfide can be found in shaving powder (Downs et al., 1995).

2. Barium nitrate can be found in fireworks and is sold to manufacture pyrotechnics (Deepthiraju & Varma, 2012).

3. Barium carbonate can be found as a ceramic pottery glaze (Jamshidi et al., 2022). It should be noted that barium carbonate is not very toxic on its own and its toxicity is solely based on its ability to metabolize into barium chloride. It can also be used to manufacture the chloride, as shown here.

4. Barium chlorate can be found in fireworks (Minns, 2018). This is a strong oxidizer and can even spontaneously combust in air with too much dust or lint in it.

5. Barium chromate can be found in textile pigments as Barium Yellow ("Barium Chromate"). It should be noted that barium chromate is a carcinogen in addition to a toxin.

6. Barium metal can be bought for element collecting. The careful addition of water to the metal produces barium hydroxide and hydrogen gas. Barium hydroxide can be used to create barium chloride (Sullivan, 2012).

7. Barium sulfate can be bought as a pigment, or as the mineral barite. Barium sulfate, although insoluble and non-toxic, can be used to create barium carbonate through a lengthy reflux with sodium carbonate. The carbonate can be used to manufacture the chloride, as shown here.
 
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SaltySuh

Member
Aug 12, 2023
73
I should note that the comparison which found an equal toxicity of barium chloride and sodium nitrite was based on rodent studies. While rodents are one of the best models for finding the likely effects of a substance in man without actually needing to test on humans, the findings do not always translate directly to humans.
 
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Kasumi

Kasumi

tired
Mar 3, 2023
482
definitely not a fan of how online soruces can cary so heaily in their LD50 recomendations, if you can find more data specifying LD50 / kg preferably oral, rat that might help.
I got the numbers for SN, BaCl2 and BACO3 from their wikipedia sites and at least for SN those make sense.
 
B

Battered_Seoul

Experienced
Jun 13, 2018
235
Been a while. @SaltySuh , I was wondering if there was a difference between straight Barium Chloride and the Dihydrate form?
 
S

SaltySuh

Member
Aug 12, 2023
73
@Battered_Seoul, the dihydrate simply has some water molecules bonded to it. Thus, the name of dihydrate. All this means is that the dose would have to be increased by 14.751% to account for the water weight (Pauller, 2016). Solubility might be ever so lower, but not likely to a statistically significant degree. The dihydrate is reported to have the same degree of lethality as the anhydrous compound according to one Material Safety Data Sheet issued by Labchem, Inc. in 2019.
 
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helllcreator

Member
Aug 5, 2023
44
Apologies for bumping this back up,

But would filling gelatin casuals with barium carbonate be a viable way to take that salt, instead of trying to drink it or consume it some other way. Given its low solubility it just seems that its a decent option. Going to order the barium next week and capsules if they are a decent idea.
 
Kasumi

Kasumi

tired
Mar 3, 2023
482
Apologies for bumping this back up,

But would filling gelatin casuals with barium carbonate be a viable way to take that salt, instead of trying to drink it or consume it some other way. Given its low solubility it just seems that its a decent option. Going to order the barium next week and capsules if they are a decent idea.
gelatin capsules dissove in the stomach as such there's no difference in drinking it directly vs when its in capsules.
A common tactic for downing powder such as crushed pills is to mix them in apple puree or yoghurt or something like that.
I'd recommend you weigh some table salt or smth to get an actual idea of how much a gram of salt is actually, you might only fit half a gram or mby a gram in each capsule, having to swallow a lot of them, then rely on them to dissolve equally,.. some puree might be the easier option there.
 
H

helllcreator

Member
Aug 5, 2023
44
gelatin capsules dissove in the stomach as such there's no difference in drinking it directly vs when its in capsules.
A common tactic for downing powder such as crushed pills is to mix them in apple puree or yoghurt or something like that.
I'd recommend you weigh some table salt or smth to get an actual idea of how much a gram of salt is actually, you might only fit half a gram or mby a gram in each capsule, having to swallow a lot of them, then rely on them to dissolve equally,.. some puree might be the easier option there.
Thank you, I know it might take quite a few tablets, it was mostly because unlike the chloride the carbonate isn't as soluable in water might have a think about the puree option or maybe even a milkshake or something.
Might still go with capsules as i don't have to down them all in one go I can have a moment or two between swallowing a load plus I think I'm less likely to throw them up immedialty. While the body's natural defense will probably eventually kick in and want the stuff out of me having it in capsule form is more likely to not have me throwing it up immedialty as I'm not gonna be able to get ahold of any AE before hand. Currently earmarked the 2/3 to ctb

Looking at probably going in a hotel for the night and ending there.

If anybody wants me to I will try and post along in this thread on the night and leading up to it with info I'm sure the police, coroner and probably media will love that... hopefully I don't draw attention to these forums but when they inevitably search phones and such this will pop up etc.
 
B

Battered_Seoul

Experienced
Jun 13, 2018
235
In regards to the chronology (timeline) of events for barium poisoning, here is the following from Case Reports in 2009:

As for the outcomes, nearly half of the individuals died:
Just scanning this thread again. Is the 2009 case study involving the members of the military seemingly postulating some kind of causal relationship between suddenly breaking a fast and the involvement of respiratory muscles and subsequent paralysis?

Does it follow that maintaining an unbroken medium-term fast of both fluid and food could mitigate this?

Also, just to be clear. In contrast to gut absorbed Chloroquine (where I am considering acid resistant capsules to help with ingestion), Barium is a method where it's ok for stomach acid to break it down normally?

Thanks again
 
D

donewithlife1

-
Oct 31, 2023
81
What is it?

Barium is an alkaline rare-earth metal with an atomic number of 56. It has a number of salts. The sulfate salt is non-toxic and does not dissolve in water. Soluble salts are all toxic. This includes, but is not limited to the following: "Barium acetate, barium nitrate, barium carbonate, barium sulfide, and barium chloride". The carbonate and chloride are among the most toxic.[1]

How does it work?

Barium toxicity is a result of its ability to block potassium channels. This prevents your heart and muscles from responding to electrical stimuli. You'll likely die of cardiac arrest.[2]

What are the effects?

According to CDC, here are the effects: "Ingestion of certain forms of barium (e.g., barium carbonate or barium fluoride) in toxic amounts can lead to gastrointestinal signs and symptoms (e.g., vomiting, abdominal pain, and watery diarrhea)…profound hypokalemia and generalized muscle weakness can develop which may progress to paralysis of the limbs and respiratory muscles. Severe hypokalemia induced by barium toxicity can cause ventricular dysrhythmias."[3]

The onset is very rapid, according to one article: "Barium toxicity is mediated by the free cation and has an onset typically 10-60 minutes post-administration (depending on dose)…"[4]

In case of suicide, the cause of death was cardiopulmonary arrest (according to one article).[5]

How do I prepare?

It is strongly suggested to take an anti-emetic with barium salts. Barium salts are known irritants.[6]

What is the dose?

The reported lethal dose of barium salts differs from publication to publication, but it is between 500 and 2000 milligrams.[7] To be sure, I'd state that a dose of 25 grams should likely work. Remember, it must be a soluble salt.

What is a possible antidote?

If one wants to abort their bus-ride, then consumption of sulfates (e.g.,sodium sulfate) and potassium salts (e.g.,potassium chloride) will probably reverse the hypokalemia and help convert the soluble salt into the insoluble and non-toxic sulfate salt.[8] I am not a physician and I make no promises in this regard.

How detectable is it on an autopsy?


Barium poisoning can be difficult to detect. Much of its effects are similar to that of known cardiovascular illness. One woman poisoned her father with it and the death was initially reported as natural causes. People only knew the truth after she confessed.[9]


Availability

As of this writing, barium salts are widely available online from major online retailers and smaller specialty shops. Barium can also be found in shaving powder as its sulfide salt.[10]
Ok and how we order it exactly and how we use it? Can you put it in an easy instruction I'm kind of slow
 
Kasumi

Kasumi

tired
Mar 3, 2023
482
Ok and how we order it exactly and how we use it? Can you put it in an easy instruction I'm kind of slow
Just stick to SN protocol in terms of AE timing and replace SN with the appropriate dose of Barium Salt.
Can't exactly share sources here as that would be against forum rules. (not that I have a source anyway)
 
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donewithlife1

-
Oct 31, 2023
81
Just stick to SN protocol in terms of AE timing and replace SN with the appropriate dose of Barium Salt.
Can't exactly share sources here as that would be against forum rules. (not that I have a source anyway)
Thank you
https://www.etsy.com/de-en/listing/...ed&utm_custom1=_k_EAIaIQobChMIjsPIspTRgQMVIuT mCh27uQLLEAQYAyABEgJPUPD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_20006944211_148069441653_655738757672_pla-314954651933_m__1565987461ende_704667981&utm_custom2=20006944 211&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjsPIspTRgQMVIuTmCh27uQLLEAQYAyABEgJPUPD_BwE


It is this?
I'm trying to find out too I don't want to buy the wrong thing
 
D

DepressedChemMajor

o7
Oct 24, 2023
224
Hello, Barium poisoning survivor here. I took ~30g of BaCl2. It almost worked, but it paralyzed my respiratory muscles and THAT WAS EXTREMELY UNCOMFORTABLE and I had a panic attack leading to me being found out and rescued. So please consider this before anyone attempts this. As for damages after survival , I do not have any long term damages after the attempt but I do feel more tired and less able to do heavy exercises.

Edit: Also it's extremely salty, kinda more saltier than NaCl.
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
9,519
but it paralyzed my respiratory muscles and THAT WAS EXTREMELY UNCOMFORTABLE
Thx for sharing your experience. That means you would have suffocated bc you weren't able to breathe anymore? Would it have been successful if you more or less in a deep sleep with a lot of benzos / other strong sedatives?
 
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DepressedChemMajor

o7
Oct 24, 2023
224
Thx for sharing your experience. That means you would have suffocated bc you weren't able to breathe anymore? Would it have been successful if you more or less in a deep sleep with a lot of benzos / other strong sedatives?
Yes, I was suffocating and my body naturally reacted to it. I think it would've been successful had I used benzos/sedatives with it, but I didn't have access to it when I attempted suicide. I also considered IVing the BaCl2, but now I'm too scared because of the previous experience with it.
 
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DepressedChemMajor

o7
Oct 24, 2023
224
How much water did you use? Did you have a feeling of thirst after ingesting the solution?
I used a glass of water, I think 350ml. It was slightly warm, but not hot. I did feel thirsty however I'm dehydrated and feel thirsty all the time no matter how much water I drink.


Bonus: some barium chloride crystals that formed on my thumb.
IMG 20230216 WA0032 IMG 20230216 WA0027
 
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Kasumi

Kasumi

tired
Mar 3, 2023
482
@SaltySuh you might wanna update your main post, actually there's no specific mention on the source you linked that Barium compounds lead to cardiac arrest.
It's more like soluable barium compounds lead to muscle paralysis cause of Ba2+​ blocking the potassium ion channels, one of the symptoms is arrhythmia and paralysis (and death) but that doesn't mean cardiac arrest will happen before your respiratory muscles fail.

It might be more worth it to use barium compounds as a cardiac switch and combine it with others that ensure deep sleep even if they don't kill on their own, benzos, GBL, etc
 
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Battered_Seoul

Experienced
Jun 13, 2018
235
@DepressedChemMajor My condolences for your discomfort; sounds unpleasant. May I ask if you have you taken any potassium supplementation or had any side effects of low potassium?
 

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