Method The Barium Method

[SaltySuh]

What is it?

Barium is an alkaline rare-earth metal with an atomic number of 56. It has a number of salts. The sulfate salt is non-toxic and does not dissolve in water. Soluble salts are all toxic. This includes, but is not limited to the following: "Barium acetate, barium nitrate, barium carbonate, barium sulfide, and barium chloride". The carbonate and chloride are among the most toxic.[1]

How does it work?

Barium toxicity is a result of its ability to block potassium channels. This prevents your heart and muscles from responding to electrical stimuli. You'll likely die of cardiac arrest.[2]

What are the effects?

According to CDC, here are the effects: "Ingestion of certain forms of barium (e.g., barium carbonate or barium fluoride) in toxic amounts can lead to gastrointestinal signs and symptoms (e.g., vomiting, abdominal pain, and watery diarrhea)…profound hypokalemia and generalized muscle weakness can develop which may progress to paralysis of the limbs and respiratory muscles. Severe hypokalemia induced by barium toxicity can cause ventricular dysrhythmias."[3]

The onset is very rapid, according to one article: "Barium toxicity is mediated by the free cation and has an onset typically 10-60 minutes post-administration (depending on dose)…"[4]

In case of suicide, the cause of death was cardiopulmonary arrest (according to one article).[5]

How do I prepare?

It is strongly suggested to take an anti-emetic with barium salts. Barium salts are known irritants.[6]

What is the dose?

The reported lethal dose of barium salts differs from publication to publication, but it is between 500 and 2000 milligrams.[7] To be sure, I'd state that a dose of 25 grams should likely work. Remember, it must be a soluble salt.

What is a possible antidote?

If one wants to abort their bus-ride, then consumption of sulfates (e.g.,sodium sulfate) and potassium salts (e.g.,potassium chloride) will probably reverse the hypokalemia and help convert the soluble salt into the insoluble and non-toxic sulfate salt.[8] I am not a physician and I make no promises in this regard.

How detectable is it on an autopsy?


Barium poisoning can be difficult to detect. Much of its effects are similar to that of known cardiovascular illness. One woman poisoned her father with it and the death was initially reported as natural causes. People only knew the truth after she confessed.[9]


Availability

As of this writing, barium salts are widely available online from major online retailers and smaller specialty shops. Barium can also be found in shaving powder as its sulfide salt.[10]

 

[befree]

Right. I wasn´t sure in another thread if it´s right that I mention this metal as a possible method. I think more research is needed to consider it a reliable method.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

That sounds interesting, but imo it's not very lethal at least not too quickly enough. It would've been banned already. I never thought of ingesting Barium salts as a quick CTB method.

 

[Death is my goal]

"vomiting, abdominal pain, and diarrhea"

yeah no thanks

 

[Battered_Seoul]

Can this be imported through customs without questions?

 

[befree]

Can this be imported through customs without questions?

Each country has different regulations. There must be a customs website in your country. I would guess it's not a problem.

 

[draekmir]

Honestly I'd rate the comfort of the effects of this at like a 2/10 can definitely be much worse but still gonna absolutely suck

 

[SaltySuh]

Can this be imported through customs without questions?

@Battered_Seoul, generally yes. The only country that restricts barium salts is the U.K. (obviously). However, the toxic carbonate salt is excepted from regulation and perfectly fine to import.

"vomiting, abdominal pain, and diarrhea"

yeah no thanks

@Death is my goal, as if sodium nitrite and azide can't come with nausea and vomiting? Sodium nitrite, sodium azide, and barium salts are all poisons…There's gonna be at least some discomfort. You're not ingesting a ice cream cone with sprinkles for fucks sake.

That sounds interesting, but imo it's not very lethal at least not too quickly enough. It would've been banned already. I never thought of ingesting Barium salts as a quick CTB method.

Cadmium chloride, mercury chloride, and lead oxide are all available for sale as reagents on a certain jungle site . All are highly toxic if ingested. The availability of a compound should not be considered as directly correlated with its safety.

 

[anaerobic_bacterium]

what you can say about sulfide salts ? some of them are supposed to release H2S in contact with the acidic environment.

the process supposed to be similar as in aluminum phosphide intoxication it releases PH3 when ingested and dissolved in gastric acid

 

[SaltySuh]

what you can say about sulfide salts ? some of them are supposed to release H2S in contact with the acidic environment.

the process supposed to be similar as in aluminum phosphide intoxication it releases PH3 when ingested and dissolved in gastric acid

@anaerobic_bacterium Some sulfide salts create H2S upon reaction with water. However, most are more stable than barium salts. Electronegativity increases up and across the periodic table. Electronegativity is related to the strength of a chemical bond. Thus, the carbon to fluorine bond is among the strongest. Accordingly, the bonds in a barium salt would usually be weaker than that of a typical sulfide or fluorocarbon.

 

[anaerobic_bacterium]

@anaerobic_bacterium Some sulfide salts create H2S upon reaction with water. However, most are more stable than barium salts. Electronegativity increases up and across the periodic table. Electronegativity is related to the strength of a chemical bond. Thus, the carbon to fluorine bond is among the strongest. Accordingly, the bonds in a barium salt would usually be weaker than that of a typical sulfide or fluorocarbon.

Aluminium phosphide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Aluminium sulfide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

thanks. stumbled upon these articles in wiki. it seems only aluminum salts react violently w/ water and ingesting them is very doable as a sucide method. the sodium and potassium sulfide salts score health 3 in NFPA. just wondering how they'd react with gastric acid.

 

[SaltySuh]

Aluminium phosphide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Aluminium sulfide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

thanks. stumbled upon these articles in wiki. it seems only aluminum salts react violently w/ water and ingesting them is very doable as a sucide method. the sodium and potassium sulfide salts score health 3 in NFPA. just wondering how they'd react with gastric acid.

@anaerobic_bacterium One should take heed of the fact these salts react violently with water. Now, imagine that volatile and likely exothermic reaction occuring in an individual's stomach. Then, think for a second…Would you or any other person want this to occur in their stomach? If one does not understand what is meant by reacts violently with water, watch any video of someone throwing sodium metal into a body of water.

 

[Battered_Seoul]

@SaltySuh

Barium carbonate intoxication - PubMed

A 22-year-old man attempted to commit suicide by swallowing an unknown amount of barium carbonate dissolved in hydrochloric acid. Shortly after ingestion, he developed crampy abdominal pain and generalized muscle weakness. About 2 h later, respiratory failure ensued necessitating orotracheal...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I found this article interesting. It reports on a man who dissolved an unknown amount of Barium Carbonate in Hydrochloric acid.

Are there any substances that would be useful to solubility/potentiation, or is water sufficient?

Thanks in advance.

 

[SaltySuh]

@Battered_Seoul, water is all that's needed at bare minimum. Although, I would strongly recommend an anti-emetic because of the known irritant properties of barium salts.

 

[SaltySuh]

@Battered_Seoul Also, please don't drink HCl. The stuff is highly corrosive and a strong irritant.

 

[singularity3]

https://www.etsy.com/de-en/listing/...ed&utm_custom1=_k_EAIaIQobChMIjsPIspTRgQMVIuT mCh27uQLLEAQYAyABEgJPUPD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_20006944211_148069441653_655738757672_pla-314954651933_m__1565987461ende_704667981&utm_custom2=20006944 211&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjsPIspTRgQMVIuTmCh27uQLLEAQYAyABEgJPUPD_BwE


It is this?

 

[SaltySuh]

[Redacted]


It is this?

@singularity3 First, please don't publicly post sources. Second, no, barium hydroxide is not suitable for the purposes discussed in this thread. It is highly caustic and extremely unsuitable for consumption. Drinking a solution of barium hydroxide would cause organ damage akin to drinking bleach or lye.

Only the following salts should really be considered for this method: "Barium acetate, barium nitrate, barium carbonate, barium sulfide, and barium chloride".

 

[peace_van]

Aluminium phosphide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Aluminium sulfide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

thanks. stumbled upon these articles in wiki. it seems only aluminum salts react violently w/ water and ingesting them is very doable as a sucide method. the sodium and potassium sulfide salts score health 3 in NFPA. just wondering how they'd react with gastric acid.

You don't ingest them (they are highly irritating when ingested, strongly alkalic and brutely react with gastric acid); just react them with water or acid and breathe in the H2S or PH3 gas.
The toxicity of sulfide or phosphide salts comes from the H2S or PH3 gas they generate, while barium salts poison by the Ba2+ ion, the mechanism is different.

 

[SaltySuh]

You are correct. Great summary of the differences, @peace_van.

 

[Battered_Seoul]

@Battered_Seoul Also, please don't drink HCl. The stuff is highly corrosive and a strong irritant.

Understood. I am just wondering if there is some kind of issue with solubility if this decision was made.

 

[Kasumi]

wanted to add that barium carbonate is essentially insoluable in water, barium chloride however is, with an LD50 (oral, rat) of ~80mg/kg (approximately half that of SN).
barium carbonate also has a high LD50 of ~400mg/kg.

if you go with the "about 2x LD50" rule you'd get close to 10g of BaCl2​ in 50ml of water.

if that method is viable in terms of discomfort and time to death it might be easier to take than SN, considering less amounts of salt intake make vomiting less likely (though 10g is still way too much to ingest without AE, given the approximate maximum of 2g of salt a day before ur body reacts)

and since usually SN is taken together with AE, benzos or at least painkillers I think some uncomfortable side effects such as abdominal pain aren't really a concern compared to availability and reliability.

if it's equally reliable to SN it's greater availability might make that a viable option?

 

[Badger88]

wanted to add that barium carbonate is essentially insoluable in water, barium chloride however is, with an LD50 (oral, rat) of ~80mg/kg (approximately half that of SN).
barium carbonate also has a high LD50 of ~400mg/kg.

if you go with the "about 2x LD50" rule you'd get close to 10g of BaCl2​ in 50ml of water.

if that method is viable in terms of discomfort and time to death it might be easier to take than SN, considering less amounts of salt intake make vomiting less likely (though 10g is still way too much to ingest without AE, given the approximate maximum of 2g of salt a day before ur body reacts)

and since usually SN is taken together with AE, benzos or at least painkillers I think some uncomfortable side effects such as abdominal pain aren't really a concern compared to availability and reliability.

if it's equally reliable to SN it's greater availability might make that a viable option?

Are you saying the carbonate is going to be too difficult?

I've managed to obtain it easily, due to its use in crafts.

 

[SaltySuh]

wanted to add that barium carbonate is essentially insoluable in water, barium chloride however is, with an LD50 (oral, rat) of ~80mg/kg (approximately half that of SN).
barium carbonate also has a high LD50 of ~400mg/kg.

if you go with the "about 2x LD50" rule you'd get close to 10g of BaCl2​ in 50ml of water.

if that method is viable in terms of discomfort and time to death it might be easier to take than SN, considering less amounts of salt intake make vomiting less likely (though 10g is still way too much to ingest without AE, given the approximate maximum of 2g of salt a day before ur body reacts)

and since usually SN is taken together with AE, benzos or at least painkillers I think some uncomfortable side effects such as abdominal pain aren't really a concern compared to availability and reliability.

if it's equally reliable to SN it's greater availability might make that a viable option?

@Kasumi, yes, barium carbonate has low solubility. However, it is still lethal.[1][2] Furthermore, you didn't account for the conversion of the carbonate to the chloride in stomach acid. Also, the availability of barium compounds makes it an interesting method. Even if the most toxic compounds are restricted, they can easily be prepared from barium hydroxide or barium oxide.



@Badger88, the carbonate is still lethal, but requires a higher dose to be lethal. Yet, the carbonate can be used to easily prepare the more toxic chloride by simply mixing it with twice its molar weight in hydrochloric acid. Barium carbonate and hydrochloric acid react to form barium chloride, water, and carbon dioxide. The following is the reaction: "BaCO3 + 2 HCl → BaCl2 + H2O + CO2".

 

[SaltySuh]

The complete procedure for the synthesis of barium chloride from barium carbonate can be found here. It is really in-depth and straightforward, so easy that it's used as a science experiment for teaching children.

 

[Badger88]

If I didn't want to create the chloride from the carbonate, how much of the carbonate salt would I need? 25g like SN?

 

[SaltySuh]

@Badger88. According to one book, 5 grams was the estimated lethal dose of barium carbonate for a 70kg person.[1] However, the lethality of barium salts is largely dependent on absorption much like sodium nitrite.

 

[Badger88]

500g of Carbonate has been shipped today, so will be more than enough.

 

[Kasumi]

@Badger88 @SaltySuh
Due to its very low solubility you'd have to down it in it's powdered form somehow, so downing it with water might be difficult and you'd have to get creative, swallow it with apple puree or something like that.

Furthermore it's estimated lethal dose is more than twice that of SN, so you'd end up in the neighbourhood of 40-50g of carbonate if you wanna be on the safe side, depending on your body weight of course. Not accounting for the conversion of carbonate to chloride in stomach acid, but we don't know the numbers on that so I wouldn't rely on that.

The issue with all of these is the amount of salt you intake, toxic or not, salt in itself is recognised as toxic by your body if you eat more than a few grams and will trigger responses such as vomiting, that's why you usually try to keep the dose as low as possible.

If barium chloride is obtainable then I don't see why to go the roundabout way of barium carbonate.
And we still have to consider that nothing of that is tested, those are all assumtions based on animal tests.

 

[Badger88]

@Kasumi The issue I face being in the UK is every other Barium compound is difficult to obtain.

I plan on obtaining AE to counteract the nausea.

 

[Kasumi]

@Kasumi The issue I face being in the UK is every other Barium compound is difficult to obtain.

I plan on obtaining AE to counteract the nausea.

Yea, I see, if nothing else is available to you... perhaps you could still do some home lab stuff to convert it to barium chloride as OP mentioned though.
If that's not possible you still have the option of going with a bunch of carbonate, and I mean there have been people successfully taking like A LOT of SN, 60g or more, so it's doable, it's just not a proven reliable method, then again if that's your only choice..

If you do end up going that way it might be worth documenting.