Venting "suicide is selfish" but then they say shit like this

[3spiral]

a teenage boy tried to ctb by shooting himself with a gun on the stomach during test and when i commented about this with my mom she just said he should've shot his head because now his parents are gonna have to waste their money with his health.
like, wow, i don't think there's anything worse she could've ever said. my mom is the first person to always judge people who try or have comitted suicide. i get it that people consider it to be selfish because you are leaving people who are still alive to deal with your loss and the possible trauma but judging the ways or reasons someone chooses to do that is fucking ridiculous. expecting someone who is in deep suffering to stay in it because of you also makes you selfish, asshole. especially if your biggest concern is MONEY instead of the wellbeing of a fucking child. this was obviously not a real attempt to ctb, no one shoots their stomach in front of other people to kill themselves, he was just trying to get attention to ask for help. do you simply not have a single strand of empathy in your body?
this makes me think if she would say the same if it was me. i always think that if i decided to ctb she would become angry at ME for making HER suffer even if she made me cry when i asked for help before. i know i wouldnt be here to see the results of my actions but this is why i think that it would be better if i could make it look like an accident. i just think it would make it less worse, make it look like a tragedy rather than a mistake so that i can make people less mad. some could say i shouldn't be worrying about that since i would be dead but i can't not think about everyone who didn't choose to be involved in my life (family) and i don't think it's worth making them angry for no reason. my mother being angry at my death won't actually make her learn anything, it just comes to terrible emotions.
i know i shouldn't be saying this and that i dont actually want that but there's a sort of comfort in wishing to be alone because then no one's emotions are dependant on your life's success, wellbeing and wether you are alive or not.

 

[Not_A_Seagull]

i feel so bad for that boy

 

[Rihan]

That's an insane thing to say. I feel terrible for that boy.

I think my mother would've said something similar to yours. When I attempted to kill myself as a teen, my mother was more concerned about her reputation in the neighborhood than my well-being. She didn't want to be known as the mom with a child dead by suicide, because that would make her look bad.

 

[3spiral]

That's an insane thing to say. I feel terrible for that boy.

I think my mother would've said something similar to yours. When I attempted to kill myself as a teen, my mother was more concerned about her reputation in the neighborhood than my well-being. She didn't want to be known as the mom with a child dead by suicide, because that would make her look bad.

that's terrible, i'm so sorry you had to grow up with a parent like this :( definitely none of this was your fault and i hope you are in/find a better place. i feel awful for him too, this happened some time ago so i hope he got the support he deserved

 

[detached_nic]

I genuinely don't understand the reason for those comments, what the hell do they hope to achieve? Instead of trying to support us or try to listen to us, they decide that the best course of action is to call us selfish or weak.

I'm sorry you had to listen to those comments from your own mother, I hope your situation improves.

 

[Waterfall500]

That's an insane thing to say. I feel terrible for that boy.

I think my mother would've said something similar to yours. When I attempted to kill myself as a teen, my mother was more concerned about her reputation in the neighborhood than my well-being. She didn't want to be known as the mom with a child dead by suicide, because that would make her look bad.

This.... It just shows how negatively suiucide is still viewed that people are even thinking about how neighbours will judge you if your family member dies by suicide

 

[Trazyn]

People say that suicide is selfish. Where are those people when the suicidal person is struggling. Nowhere to be found most of the time. Busy with their own lives. Ignoring the cries for help, doing nothing to improve society to try and help the people who are struggling get the support they need to build a life where they're not suicidal.

 

[SoLowHollow48]

People say that suicide is selfish. Where are those people when the suicidal person is struggling. Nowhere to be found most of the time. Busy with their own lives. Ignoring the cries for help, doing nothing to improve society to try and help the people who are struggling get the support they need to build a life where they're not suicidal.

I'm guessing that you've never been pushed away for wanting to watch that person so they don't kill themselves.

Anyways, not trying to rage-bait or anything but I feel called out again by this post. Damn. There was a post about a person who jumped in front of a train and I said something along the lines of: "Well, I feel bad for the passengers. They'd be late for work."

But that's just truth. I might sound cruel. Your mother might sound cruel saying all of that shit but deep down, we all feel bad for the victim too. It's just that, the victim themselves have died. The others? They're alive witnessing their death and having to carry that shit around for years. Suicide IS selfish. Leave it at that. Not but-s.

You die and then what? You disappear. Those people around you are going to mourn you for years. They'll be the people the public blames because their children/friend/classmate dies. Your death, no matter how hard it is to believe, actually impacts people. You're not just another statistic sometimes and I wish people here would just fucking get that thorugh their thick ass skull. Of course, your family will be indebted with the neighborhood thinking of them as incompetent for your death. Of course, people who witness your death will be traumatized. Of course, life will continue to go on but you. are. not. in. it. anymore. to shoulder any of this shit you left them with.

 

[Hvergelmir]

You're not just another statistic sometimes and I wish people here would just fucking get that thorugh their thick ass skull.

Many are privileged enough for that to hold true, but it's sadly not a universal truth.

What really infuriates me is the amount of people who'd celebrate or joke about it, and the ones who'd leverage it for attention. Unless you're successfully integrated into a tribe, a suicide or accidental death appears to just be a curiosity. Something for people to talk about, often while feeling superior just for being alive.

 

[3spiral]

I'm guessing that you've never been pushed away for wanting to watch that person so they don't kill themselves.

Anyways, not trying to rage-bait or anything but I feel called out again by this post. Damn. There was a post about a person who jumped in front of a train and I said something along the lines of: "Well, I feel bad for the passengers. They'd be late for work."

But that's just truth. I might sound cruel. Your mother might sound cruel saying all of that shit but deep down, we all feel bad for the victim too. It's just that, the victim themselves have died. The others? They're alive witnessing their death and having to carry that shit around for years. Suicide IS selfish. Leave it at that. Not but-s.

You die and then what? You disappear. Those people around you are going to mourn you for years. They'll be the people the public blames because their children/friend/classmate dies. Your death, no matter how hard it is to believe, actually impacts people. You're not just another statistic sometimes and I wish people here would just fucking get that thorugh their thick ass skull. Of course, your family will be indebted with the neighborhood thinking of them as incompetent for your death. Of course, people who witness your death will be traumatized. Of course, life will continue to go on but you. are. not. in. it. anymore. to shoulder any of this shit you left them with.

I kind of see both sides but I generally don't like labeling things as if they were always true. there are people on this website who also talk about the death by suicide of loved ones afterall, and they are on a forum for people who are suicidal

I just think saying it's selfish more than anything else sounds a bit cruel because if you're expecting someone to not leave you with that pain, you also need to consider that they are also in a place of so much pain, they don't want to handle it anymore

people who say suicide is selfish understand or sympathize with the pain of being left behind. and the people who say those are selfish understand or sympathize with the feeling of not getting enough help during deep suffering. to me, it sounds like both sides come from comprehensible emotions and that's why I don't like saying which is right or wrong

 

[Trazyn]

I'm guessing that you've never been pushed away for wanting to watch that person so they don't kill themselves.

Anyways, not trying to rage-bait or anything but I feel called out again by this post. Damn. There was a post about a person who jumped in front of a train and I said something along the lines of: "Well, I feel bad for the passengers. They'd be late for work."

But that's just truth. I might sound cruel. Your mother might sound cruel saying all of that shit but deep down, we all feel bad for the victim too. It's just that, the victim themselves have died. The others? They're alive witnessing their death and having to carry that shit around for years. Suicide IS selfish. Leave it at that. Not but-s.

You die and then what? You disappear. Those people around you are going to mourn you for years. They'll be the people the public blames because their children/friend/classmate dies. Your death, no matter how hard it is to believe, actually impacts people. You're not just another statistic sometimes and I wish people here would just fucking get that thorugh their thick ass skull. Of course, your family will be indebted with the neighborhood thinking of them as incompetent for your death. Of course, people who witness your death will be traumatized. Of course, life will continue to go on but you. are. not. in. it. anymore. to shoulder any of this shit you left them with.

I've reported you to the mods for this. Victim blaming and making assumptions about vulnerable people in a forum where they are trying to recover is unacceptable. This is specifically a forum for people trying to recover from suicidal thoughts, not a forum for those who have lost someone to suicide. While your points are perfectly valid, the vitriol and aggressiveness in your post isn't. Neither is personally attacking me when you know absolutely nothing about me, other than I'm clearly struggling and trying to overcome wanting to end my life. I didn't attack you, I talked in general about society. You decided to take this personally and take it out on me. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[SoLowHollow48]

I apologize if it seems like I'm spewing all this hatred on you but it's not aimed at you. It's aimed at the topic we have of this thread. Suicide being selfish. To that I say, yes. It is. A person claims an absolute choice that only they can make despite the sorrow that it brings others in their lives.

I quoted your post because you made it sound like we left those suicidal people to fend for themselves. Okay, maybe most of us did that but I didn't. And there are others here who did not leave their partner either. To the very end.

I've reported you to the mods for this. Victim blaming and making assumptions about vulnerable people in a forum where they are trying to recover is unacceptable. This is specifically a forum for people trying to recover from suicidal thoughts, not a forum for those who have lost someone to suicide. While your points are perfectly valid, the vitriol and aggressiveness in your post isn't. Neither is personally attacking me when you know absolutely nothing about me, other than I'm clearly struggling and trying to overcome wanting to end my life. I didn't attack you, I talked in general about society. You decided to take this personally and take it out on me. Absolutely disgusting

If this is a forum about recovering from suicide, pray tell why we have Methods.

I literally never shut up about this site offering Methods while also claiming to be a safe space for suicidal people to recover.

 

[Trazyn]

Thank you for understanding, and thank you, for responding. I really appreciate it.

I'm glad that you stuck by your loved one (partner) to the very end. And I'm sorry you lost them and now have to live with that. I lost someone to suicide too. It never leaves you.

When I say "forum about suicide recovery", I'm meaning the part of the forum we're in now, because those are the people who will be reading these topics, the ones who are trying to beat suicide rather than succumb to it. Not the other part. I should have made that clearer.

I agree that suicide is selfish. But also, letting people suffer just because it hurts to loose them is selfish. When it comes to suicide, there's often multiple victims and in some cases the selfishness goes both ways.

I'm active on a lot of suicide support spaces online, and a common theme I notice (maybe because I'm more sensitive as I'm experiencing it myself) is that people who are struggling just aren't getting the support they need. People who through past trauma, current life circumstances, or both, who don't want to die and who want to get better, are not being helped. We don't want to die, but the pain of keeping on going alone is almost unbearable. Eventually there comes a point where it's just better to give in. And it only takes one moment of weakness to loose that battle. It takes a million moments of strength to keep fighting it.

There's always exceptions, people who care and try their best to help, people like you, and please know that you are appreciated more than you can ever know. But so many friends, family and organisations out there pay lip service to helping. Either because they don't care, or they don't believe it will happen, or they just don't have the resources. Or worse, they're actively contributing to someone feeling suicidal in the first place (again, personal experience, but also a story I hear played out over and over again in other people's experiences).

I keep hearing mental health is getting worse, from lots of different sources. I keep hearing suicide is the biggest killer of this demographic, or that demographic. I just feel that we (as a society) need to be looking more at what is making people suicidal, and trying to help people rebuild their lives so they can save both themselves and other people from pain, rather than doing .. whatever it is we're doing now.

 

[SoLowHollow48]

There's always exceptions, people who care and try their best to help, people like you, and please know that you are appreciated more than you can ever know. But so many friends, family and organisations out there pay lip service to helping. Either because they don't care, or they don't believe it will happen, or they just don't have the resources. Or worse, they're actively contributing to someone feeling suicidal in the first place (again, personal experience, but also a story I hear played out over and over again in other people's experiences).

I keep hearing mental health is getting worse, from lots of different sources. I keep hearing suicide is the biggest killer of this demographic, or that demographic. I just feel that we (as a society) need to be looking more at what is making people suicidal, and trying to help people rebuild their lives so they can save both themselves and other people from pain, rather than doing .. whatever it is we're doing now.

This is so fucking real, dude. It is getting shittier by the day. I don't know why. Everything is about money now.

One of the things she wrote on her letter is to never rely on the mental health system in this bumfuck nation.

When you said that it took just one moment of weakness for a person to greet the void, I'd say that it's an accumulation of many things that pushed them there. My partner planned her suicide months right after our break-up. I still blame myself to this day, obviously. If you've visited my profile, you can see me talking about how I was angry and tired with her and that's the thing that separated us. However, despite my own fallbacks, I still wanted to be there. I still offered. After we broke up, I still asked everyone about her well-being. I told and reminded my friend and hers that she needed close company because she's depressed and I was simply not a person she could confide in anymore. No one saw through her.

Of course, everyone has their own lives to deal with.

I couldn't reach out because she cut contacts with me.

Yes, I suppose the selfishness goes both ways. We want you around but you can't stand us anymore because we're not giving you the help you require either.

 

[Trazyn]

This is so fucking real, dude. It is getting shittier by the day. I don't know why. Everything is about money now.

One of the things she wrote on her letter is to never rely on the mental health system in this bumfuck nation.

When you said that it took just one moment of weakness for a person to greet the void, I'd say that it's an accumulation of many things that pushed them there. My partner planned her suicide months right after our break-up. I still blame myself to this day, obviously. If you've visited my profile, you can see me talking about how I was angry and tired with her and that's the thing that separated us. However, despite my own fallbacks, I still wanted to be there. I still offered. After we broke up, I still asked everyone about her well-being. I told and reminded my friend and hers that she needed close company because she's depressed and I was simply not a person she could confide in anymore. No one saw through her.

Of course, everyone has their own lives to deal with.

I couldn't reach out because she cut contacts with me.

Yes, I suppose the selfishness goes both ways. We want you around but you can't stand us anymore because we're not giving you the help you require either.

Agreed on the money thing. It's just more important than people to so much of society.

I was going to say are you in the UK, given you mention not to rely on the mental health system. But sadly there's probably dozens of countries that could apply to. The failure to support mental health seems to be species wide.

What I mean about one moment of weakness, is that you have to keep fighting those thoughts all the time until you overcome them, which can take decades. But it only takes one time where you are too weak to fight and that can be the end. But you are right that it is often an accumulation of lots of things that leads people to this point.

I know it's hard to do, but try not to blame yourself. You can't carry someone indefinitely. Everybody has a breaking point and you being angry and tired with her just sounds like you reached yours. That's nothing to be ashamed of, it's just part of being human.

I had a partner who sounds very much like you. She was my safe harbour for 6 years, the only person who I never felt judged by, would would always be there for me and make time for me. I relied on her to support me with my mental health struggles. Eventually she couldn't do it anymore. We broke up over a painful 6 months, because neither of us wanted to let go but we couldn't undo the damage that had been done. I was in a dark place after that and have been in and out of that dark place ever since. But I never blamed her and I never will. I'm so grateful to her for that period of my life where I felt safe and I didn't feel alone. I'm angry at my parents for the abuse and neglect that caused these problems. I'm angry at the people in charge of this country's mental health services for failing us all repeatedly (though not with the practitioners, if any of you read this you're all amazing) and most of all I'm angry with myself for putting so much on her that it broke both our hearts. But the one person I'll never feel angry with or blame is her. I'd guess, if she could tell you, your ex would feel the same about you.

 

[harrowedfuture]

I see posts here *still* repeating this myth and agreeing with it in a thread that condemns the phrase. Please stop and go away thank you

Many suicidal people very much consider themselves a burden and want to free others of that - the opposite of "selfish", hence, a myth.

Anyway, the actual issue surrounding suicide has always been about personal autonomy and freedom to discuss it without being silenced, shamed and otherwise suppressed, which is why we're here on this exact fucking site. It's not about you, and it never was, alright?