Resource Stability of SN and N

[Kalista]

why is this unstickied? this is a fairly important post. at least link it next to the sn resource in Suicide Resource Compilation

 

[Alessa]

My N is also from 2018 and I share your same concerns. I'd also like to know more about getting it tested

Thx! If you like, we could stay in contact. Iam going to send my sample in about 2 months. When do you plan to CTB? Maybe we can support and help each other.

 

[davidtorez]

why is this unstickied? this is a fairly important post. at least link it next to the sn resource in Suicide Resource Compilation

I agree

Thx! If you like, we could stay in contact. Iam going to send my sample in about 2 months. When do you plan to CTB? Maybe we can support and help each other.

I'll send you a PM

 

[TheUncommon]

A blood test will just show the presence of nitrite (and possibly also the nitrate). For that purpose (testing the presence), the acid test is more reliable, but more dangerous. The point of testing in this case is to get an indication of concentration. While far from precise, the aquarium tests have been proven to be useful.

Wait, so the blood turning black doesn't inherently indicate the presence of methemoglobin?

 

[Relic]

Wait, so the blood turning black doesn't inherently indicate the presence of methemoglobin?

It could, but the amount of nitrites needed for the reaction is rather small. Methemoglobinemia can be caused by various chemicals, including nitrates.

 

[TheUncommon]

It could, but the amount of nitrites needed for the reaction is rather small. Methemoglobinemia can be caused by various chemicals, including nitrates.

So based on this information, why would a non-zero presence of nitrates have any ill effect on suicide via sodium nitrite? I just don't fully understand how a successful mass-conversion of hemoglobin > methemoglobin could still result in a problem for CTB.

 

[Ἡγησίας]

Hello everyone. I ordered and received the N in 2021. Alas, I am afraid that it is already expired and currently ineffective. If this is not the case yet, it should not be long. I tried to reuse the email from the time belonging to "AV", but it no longer responds. Could anyone help me?

My N expired in 2020 and I'm not worried at all about this circumstance.

 

[Relic]

So based on this information, why would a non-zero presence of nitrates have any ill effect on suicide via sodium nitrite? I just don't fully understand how a successful mass-conversion of hemoglobin > methemoglobin could still result in a problem for CTB.

The reaction speed and amount are what determine the outcome. There's quite a lot going on under the skin, there are mechanisms in place to overcome the effects of various toxic elements. If there is a malfunction in this system, someone could die after eating a sandwich. But when everything functions normally, the presence of *some amount* of toxic elements is not going to be a problem for a healthy individual. This is where the purity of the substance starts to matter.

 

[TheUncommon]

The reaction speed and amount are what determine the outcome. There's quite a lot going on under the skin, there are mechanisms in place to overcome the effects of various toxic elements. If there is a malfunction in this system, someone could die after eating a sandwich. But when everything functions normally, the presence of *some amount* of toxic elements is not going to be a problem for a healthy individual. This is where the purity of the substance starts to matter.

I apologise, but this doesn't really seem to be directly or indirectly related to my confusion or the question. If the body is going to be absolutely flooded with an agent that destroys the blood upon contact, why would it matter that a small amount of the nitrite oxidised into nitrate? Is there a known issue that arises from ingesting slightly impure SN, or is it merely speculation that slightly-oxidised SN might impede the dying process?

 

[Relic]

If the body is going to be absolutely flooded with an agent that destroys the blood, why would it matter that a small amount of the nitrite oxidised into nitrate?

That is something a blood test won't verify. Just because the drop turns brown on the salt, it does not mean the salt will defeat the defenses or destroy anything in a sufficient manner. The original question was about the blood test, and all I can say is that this test won't really tell much. The good starting point is the purity stated on the label, and if there are any concerns about the current state, the only way to make sure is to test it with more reliable and proven methods.

If the SN has been stored correctly and the starting purity is sufficient, the amounts that have been oxidized are not going to matter. There will always be some nitrates present after the years, this is not an issue.

 

[TheUncommon]

That is something a blood test won't verify. Just because the drop turns brown on the salt, it does not mean the salt will defeat the defenses or destroy anything in a sufficient manner. The original question was about the blood test, and all I can say is that this test won't really tell much. The good starting point is the purity stated on the label, and if there are any concerns about the current state, the only way to make sure is to test it with more reliable and proven methods.

If the SN has been stored correctly and the starting purity is sufficient, the amounts that have been oxidized are not going to matter. There will always be some nitrates present after the years, this is not an issue.

I see where you're coming from. Thanks for the response.

 

[bed]

Hi everyone,

my N option (someone is storing it for me) is now a bit older than 4 years. I was told a lot of times that N would be potent for 5-10 years if properly stored so I haven't lost hope. I want to take it in three months.

Nobody in this thread mentioned the option to get it tested by a lab. There is the EC lab in spain for example which promises its clients to stay discreet and respect anonymity. But its impossible to stay anonymous, because you have to send your order there and pay for the test. Its important for me to be sure for 100%. I might fail the attempt when there will be any doubt in the product so I want it to get tested.

@Dystopia got his N tested in the past by EC. It went smoothly from what they told me.

 

[Alessa]

@Dystopia got his N tested in the past by EC. It went smoothly from what they told me.

Thx a lot for letting me know. :)
Is Dystopia still here? Is it possible to ask him in private?

 

[bed]

Thx a lot for letting me know. :)
Is Dystopia still here? Is it possible to ask him in private?

no they are not unfortunately, they died a while back.

 

[Relic]

If anyone's interested, my test results.
Tested/target concentration: ~5mg/l
Things to consider: the first photo was taken with flash, the second, in daylight. The second test is slightly underweighed, and around 4mg/l.

After four and a half years in manufacturer's HDPE bottle:


+3 months, stored in the original bottle with a loose cap, total amount in bottle ~15 grams, basically empty.

 

[Dark Window]

Is sharing SN links illegal?

 

[OmnipresentSoul]

can someone message me how to get sn please

 

[lifeisbutadream]

N powder from China self tested after about 10 years. Kept dry, but subject to temp extremes from ~ 20 to 130F. Both appearence and effect seemed perfect, like new.

 

[Esokabat]

N powder from China self tested after about 10 years. Kept dry, but subject to temp extremes from ~ 20 to 130F. Both appearence and effect seemed perfect, like new.

I wonder why N powder sources from China completely dried up? Stricter regulations there?

 

[intr0verse]

I wonder why N powder sources from China completely dried up? Stricter regulations there?

Indeed, stricter regulation. Most companies don't even bother replying when mentioning N, but those who do, say they don't have it because it's a "national contraband product".

 

[SpeciesB-9]

I'd like to preface this to hopefully help people not make rash decisions due to the fear that their suicide method will go "bad" and they feel forced to take it before they truly want to. Freedom of choice means everything.

There is a lot of misconception on here about how long both of these chemicals last before they are no longer useable. both SN and N are highly stable compounds in general when stored in a cool, dry, dark environment and unopened the change in potency will diminish very slowly over time. Even when stored in "unstable" conditions, they both will last for a very long time and the loss of potency is negligible. Almost all chemicals are good past their expiration date, an expiration date is not what you may think, " Since a law was passed in 1979, drug manufacturers are required to stamp an expiration date on their products. This is the date at which the manufacturer can still guarantee the full potency and safety of the drug." [1] most drugs will last for decades past expiration, some even for centuries. In the US expired drugs are sold to the military at a discounted price since legally they are no longer acceptable to be sold to the general public.

Stability of Sodium Nitrite

First we will look at SN since it is far more commonly used. "Curing salt has no hard expiration date. If your curing salt is only salt and sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite, it's good forever. Salt itself never goes bad, though yellowing and other discoloration is common. Moisture is a potential problem as it attracts microbes. To prevent such threats, store curing salts in dry, moisture-lock, airtight containers and in a cool dry place, such as your pantry or a dry goods storage closet. Do not refrigerate or freeze curing salt." [2]

Some people are worried that clumping lowers it's efficacy, this is not the case. Here is a picture of pure sodium nitrite [3] and as you can see there is clumping. Small compounds will slowly stick together over time, it is natural and usually has nothing to do with it's efficacy.

I bought a 500g container of SN from the Polish source BM (6 letters) 3 months ago.

I received the 500 g container well sealed and wrapped in another clear plastic bag, which in turn is sealed with a cable tie.
The container is stored in a dry and dark place. A few days ago I checked inside and saw that a few lumps had formed.
But I have to admit I don't know if they were there to begin with or not.

Anyway, I have never opened this container, so I assume that the SN is still in full effect, right?

I will only open the container when I want to use the SN.
What should I do with the lumps then, just crush them?

 

[QuiteTired]

Can you get these in europe

 

[bb142342]

Hello everyone,

i am new here. An internet acquaintance brought me to the site. A quick question because I would also be interested in an emergency solution for the cupboard and have been looking for one for years without success.

Unfortunately I can't find a way to send someone a message directly, or it's because I'm new?

Does anyone have a reliable source for SN?Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything left to do in a shop in Pol.
My first choice would actually be Nem. Does anyone have a source? Years ago I had the email for the bottles here. But the package got stuck. At the time it seemed to be the only "reputable" source. But I would prefer powder because of its shelf life.Is there no chemist here who could make it?There are PDF instructions for it. But unfortunately, as a layperson, you can't get hold of a substance.

If anyone has another source for Nem. I would be so grateful.

Please send a message to me. Thank you

 

[Onelegman]

Hello everyone,

i am new here. An internet acquaintance brought me to the site. A quick question because I would also be interested in an emergency solution for the cupboard and have been looking for one for years without success.

Unfortunately I can't find a way to send someone a message directly, or it's because I'm new?

Does anyone have a reliable source for SN?Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything left to do in a shop in Pol.
My first choice would actually be Nem. Does anyone have a source? Years ago I had the email for the bottles here. But the package got stuck. At the time it seemed to be the only "reputable" source. But I would prefer powder because of its shelf life.Is there no chemist here who could make it?There are PDF instructions for it. But unfortunately, as a layperson, you can't get hold of a substance.

If anyone has another source for Nem. I would be so grateful.

Please send a message to me. Thank you

Manufacture SN? I think it would take a very specialized team for something like that. Being new you cannot send private messages.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who come in here, desperate from a panic attack or a recent breakup looking to die, no one will give you a source. It seems that every day it is more difficult to get something, and every day more people buy it. You'll have to wait I guess, it's a shame, but that's how it is.

 

[Acritarch]

Manufacture SN? I think it would take a very specialized team for something like that. Being new you cannot send private messages.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who come in here, desperate from a panic attack or a recent breakup looking to die, no one will give you a source. It seems that every day it is more difficult to get something, and every day more people buy it. You'll have to wait I guess, it's a shame, but that's how it is.

I think @bb142342 is looking for a chemist for the production of Nembutal, not for SN.

 

[bb142342]

Hello,

thanks for your answers. Yes thats right. I mean a chemist für Nem.

And no, i search for a "emergency solution" for years. Before years i buy the nem in bottles of the the PPH Book.
But the package was caught :-( Luckily, nothing ever arrived.They probably just destroyed the package.
Exactly for this reason as you describe.The monetary system is becoming more and more controlled, more and more controls and restrictions. There is almost no chance of putting anything away anymore. For me Nem. would be number 1 just because of its durability

 

[Isbel88]

Thanks you for the information

 

[wljourney]

Hello,

thanks for your answers. Yes thats right. I mean a chemist für Nem.

And no, i search for a "emergency solution" for years. Before years i buy the nem in bottles of the the PPH Book.
But the package was caught :-( Luckily, nothing ever arrived.They probably just destroyed the package.
Exactly for this reason as you describe.The monetary system is becoming more and more controlled, more and more controls and restrictions. There is almost no chance of putting anything away anymore. For me Nem. would be number 1 just because of its durability

I have not heard of anyone who was able to get N in the last 2 years. Neither powder nor the veterinary bottles.

The last source for N liquid went dark in 2022 iirc and 3 weeks ago the seller was arrested in the US for shipping N from Mexico to USA (and other countries).

Details in the indictment below.

Federal Indictment in Chicago Charges Man With Illegally Importing Suicide Drug Into the U.S. From Mexico

Authorities in the U.S. and several foreign countries conducted well-being checks and recovered pentobarbital from numerous individuals who ordered it from the defendant.

www.justice.gov

EDIT: nobody will be able/willing to produce N in a non-commercial lab. The risk is too high to be arrested/charged and the margins too small because if you do it right your customers won't return.

 

[Kavka]

If anyone's interested, my test results.
Tested/target concentration: ~5mg/l
Things to consider: the first photo was taken with flash, the second, in daylight. The second test is slightly underweighed, and around 4mg/l.

After four and a half years in manufacturer's HDPE bottle:

+3 months, stored in the original bottle with a loose cap, total amount in bottle ~15 grams, basically empty.

Thanks for sharing this! I'm not sure how to interpret these results though. As a layperson, I'd expect a decrease in nitrite (NO2) and an increase in nitrate (NO3) in the second test because NO2 is readily oxidized to form NO3 (source). This doesn't seem to be happening though.

I bought a 500g container of SN from the Polish source BM (6 letters) 3 months ago.

I received the 500 g container well sealed and wrapped in another clear plastic bag, which in turn is sealed with a cable tie.
The container is stored in a dry and dark place. A few days ago I checked inside and saw that a few lumps had formed.
But I have to admit I don't know if they were there to begin with or not.

Anyway, I have never opened this container, so I assume that the SN is still in full effect, right?

I will only open the container when I want to use the SN.
What should I do with the lumps then, just crush them?

I'm pretty sure this is normal. I haven't tested it, but I think these clumps are readily soluble in water.

"While sodium nitrite may cake, clump and harden within 6 months of the manufacture date, the chemical assay will remain within manufacturing specifications for at least 3 years." (source).

 

[Relic]

Thanks for sharing this! I'm not sure how to interpret these results though. As a layperson, I'd expect a decrease in nitrite (NO2) and an increase in nitrate (NO3) in the second test because NO2 is readily oxidized to form NO3 (source). This doesn't seem to be happening though.

The oxidation hasn't been happening with the current level of exposure to air. The relative humidity in the storage room is around 25%. I might test it again after a year, but at that rate nothing is going to change anytime soon.