Resource SN megathread

[Ashpac]

I am confused as to why some people are still doing a full regimen of antiemetics for three days. The PPeH only says to take 30mg 30 minutes before, and while it makes sense to take 45-60 min before just as a precaution to make sure the pills take effect...longer than that just doesn't make any sense. I mean, three days??? The effect of the pills only lasts so many hours. Not to mention, the chemical is out of your body altogether after three days... But regardless, the effects only last so many hours. Would someone care to explain? It seems pretty pointless and unnecessary. Not to mention a waste of meto... JUST in case you take it and then chicken out before taking the SN... (happened to me once already. I sure am glad I didn't waste all my meto leading up to that.)

Yes im confused too by these regimens.

Ive always thought taking anti emetics and anti acids 1 hour before the SN would be enough to do the job.

 

[NoOneKnows]

I am confused as to why some people are still doing a full regimen of antiemetics for three days. The PPeH only says to take 30mg 30 minutes before, and while it makes sense to take 45-60 min before just as a precaution to make sure the pills take effect...longer than that just doesn't make any sense. I mean, three days??? The effect of the pills only lasts so many hours. Not to mention, the chemical is out of your body altogether after three days... But regardless, the effects only last so many hours. Would someone care to explain? It seems pretty pointless and unnecessary. Not to mention a waste of meto... JUST in case you take it and then chicken out before taking the SN... (happened to me once already. I sure am glad I didn't waste all my meto leading up to that.)

me too..I think 24hours prior taking antiAntacid and after 12 hours again, and then last time 2 hours prior taking SN + 1 hours prio SN taking 3 pills of antiemetic (meto) would be sufficient . In fact I might do it this way, because of my everychanging health condition and unstable enviroment I can not predict circumstances 3 days prior. Another reason is I feel drowsy and sleep for most of the day if I take med that block histamin (Zantac) ,so i cant properly prepare.

 

[Arak]

Just looking back at a few things ...

When sodium nitrite does its thing, it causes methemoglobinemia. If that goes as intended, tissues in the human body are starved from oxygen.
While the human brain is highly dependent on oxygen, there is no guarantee you lose consciousness before other unpleasant things happen.

I have a medscape login which I got a long time ago. These days, it may be harder to get full access. Medscape is intended for medical professionals.

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/204178-overview

'Practice Essentials
Methemoglobinemia (congenital or acquired) occurs when red blood cells (RBCs) contain methemoglobin at levels higher than 1%. Methemoglobin results from the presence of iron in the ferric form instead of the usual ferrous form. This results in a decreased availability of oxygen to the tissues. Symptoms are proportional to the methemoglobin level and include skin color changes and blood color changes at levels up to 15% (see the image below). As levels rise above 15%, neurologic and cardiac symptoms arise as a consequence of hypoxia. Levels higher than 70% are usually fatal.'

'
Symptoms are proportional to the fraction of methemoglobin. A normal methemoglobin fraction is about 1% (range, 0-3%). Symptoms associated with higher levels of methemoglobin are as follows:

• 3-15% - Slight discoloration (eg, pale, gray, blue) of the skin
• 15-20% - Cyanosis, though patients may be relatively asymptomatic
• 25-50% - Headache, dyspnea, lightheadedness (even syncope), weakness, confusion, palpitations, chest pain
• 50-70% - Abnormal cardiac rhythms; altered mental status, delirium, seizures, coma; profound acidosis
• >70% - Usually, death'

While Nitschke has his 'opinions' (doctors!), he claims that cimetidine or ranitidine will increase absorption of the drug. We don't know how that works out in the real world. If you do not experience a very rapid rise in methemoglobinemia you would likely experience 'Headache, dyspnea, lightheadedness (even syncope), weakness, confusion, palpitations, chest pain' first. Then one could expect 'Abnormal cardiac rhythms; altered mental status, delirium, seizures, coma; profound acidosis '

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidosis 'Nervous system involvement may be seen with acidosis and occurs more often with respiratory acidosis than with metabolic acidosis. Signs and symptoms that may be seen in acidosis include headaches, confusion, feeling tired, tremors, sleepiness, flapping tremor, and dysfunction of the cerebrum of the brain which may progress to coma if there is no intervention.[2]'

And at very high levels, 'Usually, death' note that there hs been at least one reported case of someone who survived an extremely high level of methemoglobinemia.

There is no reason to believe these are the only possible symptoms. Starving the body of oxygen is the primary mechanism.

This is not the same as hypoxia as experienced by people in an airplane that is unable to supply the passengers and crew with sufficient oxygen. That is a more peaceful form.

My attempt to summarize a few things. I'm still waiting for Philip Nitschke to try it himself, which is not as dangerous at it seems since it is reversible with methylene blue.
I'd love to hear his firsthand experience. Beware fake reports mentioned on this website.

 

[littlelady774]

Good information @Arak -Thanks

 

[Dragon]

Just looking back at a few things ...

When sodium nitrite does its thing, it causes methemoglobinemia. If that goes as intended, tissues in the human body are starved from oxygen.
While the human brain is highly dependent on oxygen, there is no guarantee you lose consciousness before other unpleasant things happen.

I have a medscape login which I got a long time ago. These days, it may be harder to get full access. Medscape is intended for medical professionals.

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/204178-overview

'Practice Essentials
Methemoglobinemia (congenital or acquired) occurs when red blood cells (RBCs) contain methemoglobin at levels higher than 1%. Methemoglobin results from the presence of iron in the ferric form instead of the usual ferrous form. This results in a decreased availability of oxygen to the tissues. Symptoms are proportional to the methemoglobin level and include skin color changes and blood color changes at levels up to 15% (see the image below). As levels rise above 15%, neurologic and cardiac symptoms arise as a consequence of hypoxia. Levels higher than 70% are usually fatal.'

'
Symptoms are proportional to the fraction of methemoglobin. A normal methemoglobin fraction is about 1% (range, 0-3%). Symptoms associated with higher levels of methemoglobin are as follows:

• 3-15% - Slight discoloration (eg, pale, gray, blue) of the skin
• 15-20% - Cyanosis, though patients may be relatively asymptomatic
• 25-50% - Headache, dyspnea, lightheadedness (even syncope), weakness, confusion, palpitations, chest pain
• 50-70% - Abnormal cardiac rhythms; altered mental status, delirium, seizures, coma; profound acidosis
• >70% - Usually, death'

While Nitschke has his 'opinions' (doctors!), he claims that cimetidine or ranitidine will increase absorption of the drug. We don't know how that works out in the real world. If you do not experience a very rapid rise in methemoglobinemia you would likely experience 'Headache, dyspnea, lightheadedness (even syncope), weakness, confusion, palpitations, chest pain' first. Then one could expect 'Abnormal cardiac rhythms; altered mental status, delirium, seizures, coma; profound acidosis '

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidosis 'Nervous system involvement may be seen with acidosis and occurs more often with respiratory acidosis than with metabolic acidosis. Signs and symptoms that may be seen in acidosis include headaches, confusion, feeling tired, tremors, sleepiness, flapping tremor, and dysfunction of the cerebrum of the brain which may progress to coma if there is no intervention.[2]'

And at very high levels, 'Usually, death' note that there hs been at least one reported case of someone who survived an extremely high level of methemoglobinemia.

There is no reason to believe these are the only possible symptoms. Starving the body of oxygen is the primary mechanism.

This is not the same as hypoxia as experienced by people in an airplane that is unable to supply the passengers and crew with sufficient oxygen. That is a more peaceful form.

My attempt to summarize a few things. I'm still waiting for Philip Nitschke to try it himself, which is not as dangerous at it seems since it is reversible with methylene blue.
I'd love to hear his firsthand experience. Beware fake reports mentioned on this website.

What makes you say that it is not the same as hypoxia as in an airplane? Hypoxia is hypoxia, no?

 

[Robanon]

Quick q about anti-emetics (as I can't be the only one who has that stumbling block).

Impossible to get the ones that are recommended without a prescription in the UK. The only OTC stuff you could get would be zantac/Ranitidine (for acid) and travel sickness pills which do have some anti nausea effect obviously (so not available in shops but online is Dramamine - which is DIMENHYDRINATE)

So the question is:

In the absence of prescription anti-emetics is SN a non-starter (ie find another method). Or would a combo of zantac and dramamine do enough to keep it down?

Thanks in advance

 

[Arak]

@Dragon,

I feel I'm repeating myself, the information is basically in my previous post. Hypoxia, as in an airplane losing oxygen may kill the passengers without physical distress. Hypoxia caused by the proper use of helium, argon or nitrogen is also peaceful as in not causing physical distress.

At least, in theory.

The mechanism of SN is different. I don't want to get into all the details.

 

[Arak]

@Robanon ,

As far as I know ranitidine is not an antiemetic. Likely, ebay europe (Greece?) offers metoclopromide. Primperan ? You need an antiemetic unless you just want to draw attention.

 

[Robanon]

thanks Arak - that is really helpful. I have found Primperan in Greece.

 

[Dragon]

@Dragon,

I feel I'm repeating myself, the information is basically in my previous post. Hypoxia, as in an airplane losing oxygen may kill the passengers without physical distress. Hypoxia caused by the proper use of helium, argon or nitrogen is also peaceful as in not causing physical distress.

At least, in theory.

The mechanism of SN is different. I don't want to get into all the details.

It just doesn't make any sense. If you're not getting oxygen, then you're not getting oxygen... just saying

 

[Arak]

@Dragon ,

And in theory, you will die ... but in theory, hypoxia by inert gas is completely peaceful while we can't be so sure about SN ...
I don't remember everything,but while helium will displace any oxygen quickly the SN will start to block the ability of blood to carry oxygen more slowly which will simply be different.

 

[WayOut]

It just doesn't make any sense. If you're not getting oxygen, then you're not getting oxygen... just saying

Hypoxia caused by insufficient oxygen in the air produces euphoria, then you black out. Pilot training includes learning to recognise the early signs of hypoxia in a hypobaric chamber. The delivery of oxygen deficit is via breathing. Pilots are rigorously taught to recognise the signs. Blue fingertips is a biggie, especially if you are flying above 14,000 ft and you start feeling inanely happy.

What PN refers to as "hypoxia" when he is taking about the mechanism of death by SN is nothing like altitude hypoxia. It is lack of oxygen due to the red blood cells' reduced capacity to carry oxygen because they have been "hijacked" by the sodium. This process, and the symptoms prior to death, are nothing like altitude euphoria. The experience as organs shut down is documented in many scholastic articles, and it's not pleasant at all.

If PN hadn't already been "encouraged" to surrender his medical license, he would have lost it for the ignorant and misleading comparison. He claims death by SN is euphoric. It is not. Suggesting it is by reference to altitude euphoric hypoxia is bordering on criminal misrepresentation.

Caution. Remember that PN is NOT a registered medical practitioner. He is selling death via the fully commercial PPeH. I am waiting for his next announcement:

"Shares in the Brooklyn Bridge now available! Full jumping rights guaranteed! Register early for free bonus propeller cap to make your fall Insta-worthy!"

Or, other random shit.

 

[PurpleBlack]

What a read this thread is, Jesus Christ, all the information is scattered everywhere. Here is what I have so far, please tell me if I'm on the right track. I'm from NL btw.

1. Sodium Nitrite
NaNO2 454g, €63.10 from a legal website
https://nl.hach.com/natriumnitriet-454-g/product?id=26932399573

2. Acid reduces e.g. Tagamet (helps allows SN to work despite stomach acid)
Need a prescription for that here in NL which I expect is a bitch to get, I found this eBay seller but it costs loads of time cause it needs to come from the USA. Apparantly the European brandname is Zitac / Cimetidine which is available to buy as animal medicine without a recipe. Thoughts?? See second link
https://www.amazon.com/Tagamet-Reducer-200mg-30-count-Tablets/dp/B00ANL5AUQ
https://www.dierapotheker.nl/Hond/6...Anti-Braak-200-mg-11-tot-60-kg-2x10-tabletten

3. An anti-emetic (metoclopramide/primperan) helps avoid throwing up
Apparantly used to help people stop puking cause they're on chemo therapy, so no way I can get the recipe for this one. Have not found a good alternative either?

Edit: probs a bit too specific but what if I just do some ketamine to calm down? I guess that would be the same as just taking painkillers to make the experience a bit more pleasant?

 

[Arak]

@PurpleBlack ,

I don't know what ketamine would do ...

Ranitidine instead of cimetidine from ebay (Poland) ?

3) primperan off Ebay (Greece) ?

 

[PurpleBlack]

@PurpleBlack ,

I don't know what ketamine would do ...

Ranitidine instead of cimetidine from ebay (Poland) ?

3) primperan off Ebay (Greece) ?

sweet thanks for the tip, found a Ranitidine eBay seller from USA that ships to NL :)

 

[Didymus]

sweet thanks for the tip, found a Ranitidine eBay seller from USA that ships to NL :)

ebay seller first-4-health ships Ranitidine from UK to NL. Received mine after 6 days.

 

[Northerngirl1965]

What a read this thread is, Jesus Christ, all the information is scattered everywhere. Here is what I have so far, please tell me if I'm on the right track. I'm from NL btw.

1. Sodium Nitrite
NaNO2 454g, €63.10 from a legal website
https://nl.hach.com/natriumnitriet-454-g/product?id=26932399573

2. Acid reduces e.g. Tagamet (helps allows SN to work despite stomach acid)
Need a prescription for that here in NL which I expect is a bitch to get, I found this eBay seller but it costs loads of time cause it needs to come from the USA. Apparantly the European brandname is Zitac / Cimetidine which is available to buy as animal medicine without a recipe. Thoughts?? See second link
https://www.amazon.com/Tagamet-Reducer-200mg-30-count-Tablets/dp/B00ANL5AUQ
https://www.dierapotheker.nl/Hond/6...Anti-Braak-200-mg-11-tot-60-kg-2x10-tabletten

3. An anti-emetic (metoclopramide/primperan) helps avoid throwing up
Apparantly used to help people stop puking cause they're on chemo therapy, so no way I can get the recipe for this one. Have not found a good alternative either?

Edit: probs a bit too specific but what if I just do some ketamine to calm down? I guess that would be the same as just taking painkillers to make the experience a bit more pleasant?

Where can you get ketamine?

 

[PurpleBlack]

I don't think my SN is coming :/ it's an industrial seller and I just read on their site they contact through phone about the bill, I gave a fake phone number on the profile. Anyone got an ebay seller that ships to NL?

About the ketamine: I live in Rotterdam. Litterally everywhere.

 

[MistakesHappen]

(This comment was copied from the Pulmonicis goodbye thread.)

SN causes Methemoglobinemia, so at least we can for sure know the symptoms that this blood disorder cause.

Spoiler: Wikipedia

Signs and symptoms of methemoglobinemia (methemoglobin level above 10%) include shortness of breath, cyanosis, mental status changes (~50%), headache, fatigue, exercise intolerance, dizziness, and loss of hairlines.
People with severe methemoglobinemia (methemoglobin level above 50%) may exhibit seizures, coma, and death (>70%).[2] Healthy people may not have many symptoms with methemoglobin levels below 15%.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methemoglobinemia

Spoiler: Healthline.com

As methemoglobin levels increase, symptoms continue to get more serious. These can include:

• headache
• shortness of breath
• nausea
• rapid heart rate
• fatigue and lethargy
• confusion or stupor
• loss of consciousness

https://www.healthline.com/health/methemoglobinemia#symptoms

I honestly still consider SN an option. It's not as peaceful as N, for example, but non as bad as someone is depicting it here.

Antiemetic is obligatory, antiacid it's optional but it sure helps make the "process" faster. I would say antiacid is highly recommended.

If i'm wrong about something feel free to notify the error, i'm not an expert, i'm just a guy who has done a quick research.

 

[Johnnythefox]

I don't think my SN is coming :/ it's an industrial seller and I just read on their site they contact through phone about the bill, I gave a fake phone number on the profile. Anyone got an ebay seller that ships to NL?

About the ketamine: I live in Rotterdam. Litterally everywhere.

If it's APC pure they didn't call me and I received my order.

 

[Asdr5633]

APC Pure delivered my SN the day after I ordered it online. Just waiting on anti-emetics and anti-acids now.

 

[WayOut]

SN causes Methemoglobinemia, so at least we can for sure know the symptoms that this blood disorder cause.

Yes, that's cause of death.

I honestly still consider SN an option. It's not as peaceful as N, for example, but non as bad as someone is depicting it here.

Fair comment. I don't completely agree because there is evidence of considerable discomfort, but I don't disagree with you either.

The fact is we just don't know enough about what it feels like to die from this cause.

This is my objection to the way it is being promoted by PN as the new peaceful pill. It's also why I spoke up about the recent fake death, which encouraged people to believe it was peaceful and euphoric. We don't know that at all.

I'm not saying people shouldn't use it if they want to. Free choice. I'm just concerned people will choose this method thinking it is something that it's not.

 

[MistakesHappen]

Yes, that's cause of death.

I wrote about Methemoglobinemia because we have a lot of evidence of it's symptoms and nobody talked about it.

This is my objection to the way it is being promoted by PN as the new peaceful pill. It's also why I spoke up about the recent fake death, which encouraged people to believe it was peaceful and euphoric. We don't know that at all.

I totally agree with you, it's not peaceful like going to sleep.
I hate though that i've read someone describe it as if it was painful as hell.

Again i agree with the last part of you post

 

[PurpleBlack]

If it's APC pure they didn't call me and I received my order.

Ah really, to outside the UK? Now I'm not sure to wait if my order with Hach goes through or just put an order with APC :/

 

[throwaway777]

what would it be the best thing to do, in case i vomited sn? ... trying to throw up all the sn i can and if i feel more or less normal, pretending nothing happened and not going to the hospital? would I risk some late damages in that case? ...or would it be better to continue vomiting until i can and then go to the hospital and say that i feel very sick ... so that they do all the checks on me, like blood tests so that when they see that I have a certain amount of methaemoglobin in the bloodstream , they could think i have a medical condition that causes that (i wouldnt tell them i drunk sn )... then they would cure me without knowing of my suicidal intent and i would avoid ending up in psychiatry ... what do you all think about this?

 

[Johnnythefox]

Ah really, to outside the UK? Now I'm not sure to wait if my order with Hach goes through or just put an order with APC :/

I'm in the UK, I would wait and see if it arrives first from Hach. When did you order it?

 

[PurpleBlack]

I'm in the UK, I would wait and see if it arrives first from Hach. When did you order it?

Wednesday, but this is NL so for normal stores everything has overnight delivery.. fuck this is annoying. What do you reckon, just order the batch from the UK? It already takes until the end of feb for the other stuff to come in through poland and greece, so waiting for the SN itself just slows the whole thing down again, and I am already going insane

 

[Johnnythefox]

Wednesday, but this is NL so for normal stores everything has overnight delivery.. fuck this is annoying. What do you reckon, just order the batch from the UK? It already takes until the end of feb for the other stuff to come in through poland and greece, so waiting for the SN itself just slows the whole thing down again, and I am already going insane

I'd give it a few more days, especially if you don't have the meto yet.

 

[Jonjon]

what would it be the best thing to do, in case i vomited sn? ... trying to throw up all the sn i can and if i feel more or less normal, pretending nothing happened and not going to the hospital? would I risk some late damages in that case? ...or would it be better to continue vomiting until i can and then go to the hospital and say that i feel very sick ... so that they do all the checks on me, like blood tests so that when they see that I have a certain amount of methaemoglobin in the bloodstream , they could think i have a medical condition that causes that (i wouldnt tell them i drunk sn )... then they would cure me without knowing of my suicidal intent and i would avoid ending up in psychiatry ... what do you all think about this?

Take lots of vitamin C. It is actually used to treat mild cases of methemoglobinemia.

 

[leaps]

I don't know if this has already been asked but why can't I mix SN with alcohol?