Resource SN megathread

[Arak]

@Chinaski , it would seem to make sense to take into account tolerance to a high dose for sedatives. By whatever means.

 

[OfficerK]

Pigs ... Nitschke (no offense). Humans are not pigs (see a certain post on this forum, humans sort of process this stuff faster or are better able to undo the metogl....), and it's still 1 hour. And this one oput of 9/12 Pigs did survive ? Not sure how to read that. That, or those two pigs were not hungry.

You literally just asked for examples of test on animals. Humans aren't any other animal.


Edit: messed up formatting

7% survival rate after two hours is not the same as saying that 7% will survive. They could very well have succeeded if they were left to die.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentobarbital > uses

Netherlands and US both use lower doses than what A offers.

 

[Chinaski]

@Chinaski , it would seem to make sense to take into account tolerance to a high dose for sedatives. By whatever means.

You do this all the time. Someone picks a method, you research its failures with badly presented statistics. No method is 100% certain and peaceful, if that was the case this site wouldn't exist. Each of us has to pick our method and take our chances. If you're going to continue to argue so consistently against N because only 98.2% of people successfully ctb it's perhaps best to make clear that this is for personal and not universal reasons.

 

[Arak]

@OfficerK

I mean, we have this very large thread and where's the evidence ...

@Chinaski , for personal reasons I am distrustful of N. I can imagine I would survive in a way I wouldn't want to. I do have more than a bit of a tolerance, and a history of unexpected effects.

 

[Chinaski]

@Chinaski , for personal reasons I am distrustful of N. I can imagine I would survive in a way I wouldn't want to. I do have more than a bit of a tolerance, and a history of unexpected effects.

Absolutely fair enough. For personal reasons l won't do full suspension. The thing is every time you jump into a thread with poorly framed statistics or a survival anecdote as if you're stating facts, as if those choosing any particular method are choosing the wrong thing. You don't like the idea of N, l get that, but speculating that Dignitas are executing survivors to save face rather than observing that 90% of people have a peaceful passing is the stuff I'd expect on Quora.

 

[Arak]

It may seem as if I'm argumentative about SN, but I don't want to continue posting like that. Anyone should choose his or her own method. I just get a bit of a 'lemming' feeling.

I made some fair points about SN. And SA, someone here managed to survive that.

 

[Chinaski]

Me: everybody dies of old age eventually anyway

Arak: no!! This japanese man in this article here is 106 years old! Be careful if you plan on dying of old age as it might not work!!

 

[Arak]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-is-a-social-club.2656/#post-94940

 

[OfficerK]

It may seem as if I'm argumentative about SN, but I don't want to continue posting like that. Anyone should choose his or her own method. I just get a bit of a 'lemming' feeling.

I made some fair points about SN. And SA, someone here managed to survive that.

The thing is that we have already established that there is a degree of uncertainty with virtually every single ingestible method. N is somewhat of an exception, as it is used in clinical conditions.

Yes, you are taking a risk with SN, and it's understandable if you don't want to expose yourself to that, and yes, N is absolutely to be preferred over SN. This has been reiterated over and over in this very thread, which is why I fail to see exactly what you're trying to achieve here.

 

[Chinaski]

And SA, someone here managed to survive that.

If l remember correctly (though could be wrong) you're referring to someone taking 1/3 of the required dose, which is like saying hanging doesn't work because x person failed but forgetting to mention he used a daisy chain as a noose.

I personally am also not comfortable with the arguments in favour of SN or SA at the minute, but it's fine to say just that without presenting bad anecdotal evidence to suggest it's wrong for everybody who is more comfortable with it.

 

[OfficerK]

If l remember correctly (though could be wrong) you're referring to someone taking 1/3 of the required dose, which is like saying hanging doesn't work because x person failed but forgetting to mention he used a daisy chain as a noose.

I personally am also not comfortable with the arguments in favour of SN or SA at the minute, but it's fine to say just that without presenting bad anecdotal evidence to suggest it's wrong for everybody who is more comfortable with it.

Exactly. The same goes for N. If you were to take one gram instead of the recommended give or take ten grams, you would probably just fall asleep for a long time. And of course that's not evidence that N is unreliable.

 

[Arak]

If l remember correctly (though could be wrong) you're referring to someone taking 1/3 of the required dose, which is like saying hanging doesn't work because x person failed but forgetting to mention he used a daisy chain as a noose.

I personally am also not comfortable with the arguments in favour of SN or SA at the minute, but it's fine to say just that without presenting bad anecdotal evidence to suggest it's wrong for everybody who is more comfortable with it.

Someone here took at least 2 gr. It didn't work. As intended.

 

[Chinaski]

Fair enough if I've got that wrong.

I'm not convinced by SN either, for what it's worth - but by my reckoning it's been the most successful method amongst users of this forum. By my count there are 3 who have passed with this method.

 

[Lifeisatrap]

Sorry, more questions. I was wondering if drinking grape juice to wash down the xanex before injesting the sn would help or hinder the effectivness of this method?

 

[Arak]

You literally just asked for examples of test on animals. Humans aren't any other animal.


Edit: messed up formatting

7% survival rate after two hours is not the same as saying that 7% will survive. They could very well have succeeded if they were left to die.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentobarbital > uses

Netherlands and US both use lower doses than what A offers.

Netherlands use a 15 gr dose last time I checked.

 

[Chinaski]

Netehrlands use a 15 gr dose last time I checked.

Again, do you have a link to your info to prove you're not just making this up? Because the link you yourself provided earlier, containing time until death statistics, clearly states 9.

https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Suicide/Toxification/Pentobarbital

 

[Arak]

@Chinaski , I do have a link but it's not written in English ... so I'd rather not mention it.

 

[Arak]

One more point that I was thinking of:

The phrase 'lethargy' as used with SN poisoning. I think it's on observation, a third party point of view. People may read it as sedation, but that's not necessarily the case ... that does not preclude great suffering ... doctors ...

 

[Arak]

My evaluation of the meto of which I took half a tab yesterday ... I thought it fine was fine at first, but it causes issues ... muscle stiffness etc.I'm concerned about a 'regimen'.

 

[Deutschv2]

My evaluation of the meto of which I took half a tab yesterday ... I thought it fine was fine at first, but it causes issues ... muscle stiffness etc.I'm concerned about a 'regimen'.

You might get EPS I wouldn't recommend it. I took 3 tabs as a demo and it didn't affect me, soreness from half a tab doesn't sound good

 

[Paloma]

So i found this SN from walmart page https://www.walmart.com/ip/2-lb-Sod...owing-Food-Processing-Manufacturing/136756263 does that mean i can get SN from my local walmart? Mind my ignorance

Anyone has any info bout this? I could check at Walmart myself but if there's anyone that knows if I can get it in person in Walmart then I won't have to ask an employee where they have the SN lol I mean who goes to Walmart to buy SN.... Well idk

 

[samsays89]

Maybe unethical to ask, and I certainly wouldn't want to encourage anyone to off him or herself:

If we could get 10 members (or 5) on the SN method, with the following listed: dose, antiemetic, age, how close to death/health. And have those who survived post their experience or at the very least the fact they survived. We'd have SOME numbers.

SA experiences also most welcome. A Dutch group has distributed it amongst its members in doses of 2 gr, but aside from one confirmed death I don't have any numbers. Not counting the one forum member who survived... Or if there are any numbers on the exit forums ... I don't like the 'trust me' vibe from Nitschke.

It's completely unethical to ask someone to do what you're too afraid to do. Asking for people to be a guinea pig for you will probably have the opposite result and have people withdraw completely. There are plenty of existing case studies from reputable sources that show there are only three scenarios:

1. You accidentally ingest less than the lethal dose, and vomit/defecate until you get help, then either survive or die from complications.
2. You take the lethal dose, following the instructions, but get help and survive anyway.
3. You take the lethal dose, following the instructions, don't get help, and die.

Most of existing cases don't list the exact dosage, but there's toxicology and information from the medical community online which is easy to find. I suppose people are afraid of taking the lethal dose, vomiting most of it out, and surviving with brain damage, but I've never come across that scenario, and surviving with brain damage is a risk with probably every method except decapitation.

Case Studies which were easy to find online
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21040485
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1371420/
https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2015/12/case-reports/young-woman-who-drank-strep-test-reagents
https://www.researchgate.net/public...course_of_a_suicidal_sodium_nitrate_poisoning
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1742-6723.2010.01335.x
https://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS10905J.htm
https://archive.org/stream/MedicalJurisprudenceAndToxicology/TXT/00000577.txt
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/530790.shtml

Toxicology Information that states lethal dose is between 0.7g and 6g
http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pimg016.htm#SubSectionTitle:7.2.1 Human data

Study that shows estimated lethal dose is 2.6g
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/criem/2016/9013816/
"Sodium nitrite is generally used as a coloring agent or preservative in food and as an antimicrobial agent in meat products. The estimated lethal dose of sodium nitrite in adults is approximately 2.6 g [5]; however, a case of a patient surviving after ingesting 6 g sodium nitrite has been reported [6]. Severe methemoglobinemia with fatal outcomes following ingestion of sodium nitrite and intentional self-poisoning have been reported [3, 7].""

Study that states estimated lethal dose is 71mg/kg
https://www.omicsonline.org/open-ac...odium-nitrite-2157-7145.1000262.php?aid=36065
"Nitrite is used to maintain the bright pink color of meat and suppresses the growth of microorganisms. It is a powerful drug; the median lethal dose of oral sodium nitrite is 71 mg/kg of body weight in humans."

Since the average male is 68.6 kg, (71mg)(68.6)=4870.6mg, or 4.8706grams for average lethal dose.

15g is very reasonable for the average male, and it's not hard to do the math for a different weight.

This obviously isn't a perfect world so you aren't going to find "Sodium Nitrite Suicide Logs", just autopsy reports, toxicology information, animal experiments, and a handful of personal anecdotes from survivors which exist on this site, like this one: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-failed-attempt.4919/#post-76640 which was found by simply searching for "sodium nitrite failure". There are also several members (which posted in this thread) which have made goodbye posts and never returned but I won't post them out of respect of them being more than a statistic.

 

[Arak]

@samsays89 , agreed about asking people to off themselves but I basically already stated that. It's just anecdotal and I hate that.

I don't think that 3) is absolutely guaranteed. And that includes not having to wait for a couple of days till you die. After all, in the end something will kill everyone.
Taken 'properly' and without getting help within a day, I do believe that more than 50 % of people will die of 15 gr. That still leaves some questions.

 

[Chinaski]

@samsays89 , agreed about asking people to off themselves but i basically already stated that. It's just anecdotal and I hate that.

Taken 'properly' and without getting help within a day, I do believe that more than 50 % of people will die of 15 gr. That still leaves some questions.

You're going to die of old age before you complete your research into the 100% effective and peaceful method. There's nothing wrong with being uncertain or scared about ctb, if l didn't feel like that I'd be gone already, but you'll never find the answer you're clearly and obsessively looking for until an actual 'peaceful pill' is sold in regular pharmacies, and even then you'd test it on 100 people first.

 

[Arak]

@Chinaski ,

Oh I would die off something else and it wouldn't even take a decade. I don't like the guesswork.

 

[Deutschv2]

Maybe unethical to ask, and I certainly wouldn't want to encourage anyone to off him or herself:

If we could get 10 members (or 5) on the SN method, with the following listed: dose, antiemetic, age, how close to death/health. And have those who survived post their experience or at the very least the fact they survived. We'd have SOME numbers.

SA experiences also most welcome. A Dutch group has distributed it amongst its members in doses of 2 gr, but aside from one confirmed death I don't have any numbers. Not counting the one forum member who survived... Or if there are any numbers on the exit forums ... I don't like the 'trust me' vibe from Nitschke.

Here's some SA cases off the 8ch.net thread
https://i.imgur.com/fN6GqtX.png (I reuploaded it to imgur incase if it disapear) Original thread https://8ch.net/suicide/res/34460.html#36233

 

[Arak]

@Deutschv2 ,

Thank you very much. I'm not that familiar with the sources.

The first link, sodium azide: perhaps suprising, someone survived a 5 gr dose. Just like someone here survived a 2 gr dose.

Survival of lower doses up to 1 gr. based on that source, people on massive doses (>10gr) died. (spoonful? how much is that) Supposedly a very brutal method at that dose. I know of a Dutch group that distributed doses of 2 gr.(!) That group also previously considered SN but chose SA.
10 gr ... it seems awful. Still no guarantees. It doesn't mention anything about adjunct drugs.

(note:https://mobile.twitter.com/philipnitschke/status/947061844677742592) (distilled water?)

Good links. Makes me afraid, to be honest. I'd absolutely hate having to take this. My health has declined this year and I'm more sensitive to pain, nausea from hell would also be hard to bear. CNS is messed up already so can't take additonal damage from surviving SN or SA. Train suicide may be peaceful by comparison ?

I doubt 500 mg of oxy or similar would make a dent in the pain ? Something for the feeling of nausea ? Horrible, but maybe I'll have no choice. Those Dutch people are crazy for choosing it as a peaceful exit and passing it onto unsuspecting members. That has stopped I guess.

Well, maybe someone could make an SA regimen to reduce the suffering ? I may have no choice ...

 

[Rex]

Can you make your own SA thread, that's all I see when i open this up now... this is supposed to be about SN unless im missing something but a bunch of people debating SA, please make your own megathread for that method. It makes it harder to shuffle through all the posts when you go off topic.

 

[Arak]

@Rex ,

In a way you are right but it just creeps in. There are a few SA threads but they run into a dead end after a few posts. It would only work if enough people participated.

 

[weedoge]

@Rex ,

In a way you are right but it just creeps in. There are a few SA threads but they run into a dead end after a few posts. It would only work if enough people participated.

There are no rules about bumping old threads if necessary so I think it'd be fine to bump any of those dead SA threads if you need to ask a question.