Help Scientific Help Needed, SN without tasting it, (Not Capsules or Rizla\Rolling Papers) Chocolate Flavoured

[Jumper Geo]

I'm not an SN expert or scientifically minded so I don't know the chemical reactions but I think this is an easier way to swallow the SN powder and all you need is some Organic Coconut Oil, it will dissolve quickly once swallowed, I don't think you will get any gagging reflex from the salty taste, especially if it's coated in chocolate.

If you are scientifically minded would you mind doing some research and tell me if the SN will be fine to mix with Organic Coconut Oil and if the SN will degrade by being chilled in order to shape them into a bullet. I have been reading all the information I can find and I think it will be fine but i'm not a scientist.

Edit: Not being funny but instead of Coconut Oil you could replace it with Dark Chocolate as you can nuke it and when chilled becomes hard again, the reason they never used it in the video is because she was using it to go up your bum not swallow it.

Step by Step Guide

1, Weigh 30 grams of SN powder
2, Measure 1 table spoon of Organic Coconut Oil
3, Nuke the Organic Coconut Oil for 15 seconds and check may need another 15 seconds
4, Mix in with the SN powder
5, Quick freeze for 5 minutes
6 Remove from the freezer
7, Shape them into 1, 2 or 3 bullets (So Easy To Swallow)
8, Swallow immediately with 50 ML water or refrigerate for later.

Optional

1, Nuke some chocolate for 15 seconds and check may need another 15 seconds
2, Smother SN and Coconut Oil bullet or bullets in Chocolate
3, Quick freeze for 5 minutes
4, YUM, YUM and CTB, lol.




Amazon product ASIN B01M0LGD6A
Nuking Chocolate



Cheers

Geo

 

[s1mplem3]

Salty chocolate?

 

[disabledandhopeless]

Chocolate flavoured lol Creative

 

[Quarky00]

And I hereby conclude, members of the jury, that it is self evident that @Jumper Geo is criminally deranged

4, YUM, YUM and CTB, lol.

That made me laugh so hard, I'm tearful IRL now

I'm writing seriously about that, since I have experimented with oil+salts , and freezing was raised here several times , and perhaps there's real idea here .So I'll gather some info and write serious reply shortly.

 

[BeeLoyal]

I'm not an SN expert or scientifically minded so I don't know the chemical reactions but I think this is an easier way to swallow the SN powder and all you need is some Organic Coconut Oil, it will dissolve quickly once swallowed, I don't think you will get any gagging reflex from the salty taste, especially if it's coated in chocolate.

If you are scientifically minded would you mind doing some research and tell me if the SN will be fine to mix with Organic Coconut Oil and if the SN will degrade by being chilled in order to shape them into a bullet. I have been reading all the information I can find and I think it will be fine but i'm not a scientist.

Step by Step Guide

1, Weigh 30 grams of SN powder
2, Measure 2 table spoons of Organic Coconut Oil
3, Nuke the Organic Coconut Oil for 1 Minute
4, Mix in with the SN powder
5, Quick freeze for 5 minutes
6 Remove from the freezer
7, Shape them into 1, 2 or 3 bullets (So Easy To Swallow)
8, Swallow immediately with 50 ML water or refrigerate for later.

Optional

1, Nuke some chocolate for 1 Minute
2, Smother SN and Coconut Oil bullet or bullets in Chocolate
3, Quick freeze for 5 minutes
4, YUM, YUM and CTB, lol.




Amazon product ASIN B01M0LGD6A

Cheers

Geo

Hmm I am not sure if thats insufficient or not, because I know that SN is bad with Juice. I think if you want to make sure just leave it at pure SN with plain water.

 

[itsamadworld]

A suppository? hmmmm.....Would you shit out the SN? Is chocolate good on the stomach...I'm not sure, actually?

 

[Kumachan]

Sounds delish really... But how do you NUKE coconut oil for 1 min? O_o

 

[Jumper Geo]

Hmm I am not sure if thats insufficient or not. because I know that SN is bad with Juice. I think if you want to make sure just leave it at pure SN with plain water.

I can see what your saying, I think it will work as it's the Coconut Oil which is being chilled for a short time which hardens with the SN and then you can add the chocolate afterwards to sweeten the deal,

Thanks for the feedback

Cheers

Geo

Sounds delish really... But how do you NUKE coconut oil for 1 min? O_o

When I said Nuke it I mean microwave it for 1 minutes.

 

[Kumachan]

Got it! Seriously, making SN more palatable is a whole new area of CTb research, new recipes and stuff! Well done!

 

[_Minsk]

does anyone knows these salty liquorice sweets?:3

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Here's a post from the SN FAQ. I'm not going to edit out the irrelevant info. What is relevant is info about temperatures, calories, and sugar. So far I've only ever seen that SN should not be heated, I've never seen anything about it being frozen, may require a web search or site search.

Massive FAQ dump .

Death .
Official	"SN Poisoning" Easily detectable, nothing more to it.
How does it work exactly?	Blood cells do not carry oxygen, though lungs continue to supply it, and brain is still working. Cells in body turn to anaerobic metabolism for a while and eventually die , after couple of hours . SN also causes blood cell destruction, plus circulatory disorder (blood cannot flow to tissue).
What's the medical state?	The body can be described as suffering: hemolytic anemia, "blood failure", or anemic hypoxia, "blood fails to deliver oxygen". Tissue slowly dies, but not due to lack of oxygen in cells (like cyanide) or lungs (like suffocation), rather due to 'bad blood' . It shares similarities with CO2 poisoning .
Is it like suffocation?	No. Suffocation (hypoxic hypoxia) is a stressful experience, involving reflexes, pain, and rapid damage within minutes. SN does not deprive oxygen from you body, but to individual cells within your body.
Will my brain continue to function?	Yes. Brain continues to function, even with 30% oxygen level. SN is a gradual slow process.
Will I feel death?	No, if regime followed. With low oxygen levels you faint and lose consciousness. Brain goes into "sleep mode" – everything keeps working, but you fall asleep.
Can it be disguised as accident?	Never . Your face turns blue and your blood turns dark -- that's visible . It cannot be disguised as hypothermia or suffocation
Can I donate organs?	Never. Suspicion of either suicide or poisoning forbids that. Autopsy and inquest required , cannot harvest organs (even if permitted) .
Do you "fall asleep" due to hypoxia or sedatives?	Either or both. SN: faint around 13m , unconsciousness around 20m. Benzo: taking several can knock out , in 15m-30m So either / both You may time to be asleep when SN affects
. Recovery .
SN fatal even in small dosages?	YES. DO NOT TRY OR TASTE IT.
Can I recover?	YES – with HOSPITAL CARE.
Can I recover on my own?	NO.
What happens in recovery/hospital?	Methylene Blue is an antidote. Minute dosage of it increases oxygen from fatal 20% to healthy 90% within 30-60m. Patients regain consciousness within 2-8 hours; dissmissed after 1-3 days; unless kept for psychiatric evaluation. Hospitals sometime follow further procedures, but these were not found to be crucial just supportive, may hasten recovery: Oxygen therapy, Ascorbic acid (MetHb elimination), Cimetidine (reduces hematotoxins).
Can I be rescued?	YES. Usually within 1-2 hours. Sometimes up to 3-4h after ingestion.
Will I have permanent damage?	NO – You either die or recover Plethora of SN poisoning cases with no medical evidence of damage. Probably due to mode of action – slow cell/tissue death until total collapse. In the meantime everything is working.
If only small amount digested can I recover alone?	NO . This is extremely rare .
Will I have permanent damage if SN taken without medical intervention?	No. You will not have permanent damage. But you won't survive – scenario very unlikely – without rescue 99% fatal.
Why SN does not cause brain damage?	Hypoxic brain injury (drastic reduction in oxygen) is much slower than anoxic brain injury (sudden shutoff of oxygen, kills brain cells in 4 minutes). Other organs die first . Heart, kidneys, etc collapse first – see research link Possible temporary damage to globus pallidus (basal ganglia) – spontanously healed after few days [1]
Chances of coma / becoming vegetable?	Currently 0% , as far as we know: Out of thousands poisoning cases throughout centuries – there are no such documented cases. [1] [2] "The Chinese Case" is not documented , we don't know patient background , and family claims malpractice . The child is not vegetative but brain dead (no chances of waking up). It is not a good case to study . [1]
Storage .
Primer	SN acts much like table salt (NaCl). Hygroscopic – absorbs water . Does not reactwith water but dissolves to ions , suspended between H20 molecules . Google "reactions vs ionic solution" . Dissolves readily up to 40% (see graph) Should not be heated . Combustible .
Solid​
Can I open and close bottle?	YES. Unless you're in a sauna .. It does not oxidize with oxygen , only with water (that solution is potent) Frequent exposure will damage it, but over time. Occasional won't. Clamps are fine Normal temperatures are fine . SN is transported in trucks/airplanes neither heated nor cooled . SN storage warnings mention only high heat, reagents, pressure, and combustion. That includes strong acids / bases / oxidizers . These may cause reaction .
Refrigerate?	No. SN is not reactive (only to moisture, heat, strong acid/base) In industry kept at room temperature for years – simple plastic container Refrigerators have moisture – don't overdo [1]
Extreme weather for transport/storage problem?	No. SN is transported in all climates without any heating/cooling. SN is simply not reactive – only to moisture, acid, extreme heat, etc
Solution (liquid)​
Will it go bad quickly?	NO. Only after few hours. Strong solutions (40%) are potent and durable . Weaker solutions will slightly react to create nitrates (aquarium) . Labs store 40% solution in room temperature, open and close it, so some oxygen is fine. Pure 100%, required in delicate biochem tests (DNA), must be prepared freshly ; but 99% is fine for us . Labs use purified water and under sterile condition.
How long is it potent?	At least several hours, if not more. It has nothing to react with – but minute minerals, dirt, etc in drinking water .
Should I refrigerate?	No. While labs store 40% solution, our water is "dirty", and we lack sterile environment. Cooling should not cause SN to change behaviour , but don't . See saturation/temperature graph (OP)
Should I use heated water?	No. SN , like salt , readily dissolves in room temperature water . Stir it . Heating will cause SN to change behaviour – don't.
Summary​
	Water Solution Few Hours Packed Air-Tight Few Years Clumps, temporary exposure to air , are okay Air Few Weeks Will lose potency slowly, due to humidity (H2O) not oxygen

SN Intake .
Common symptoms?	Stan's Guide Success/failure stories – provide full testimonies It's individual. Each member mentioned something else -- that another wasn't worried about.
"Pain"?	Issue are NOT painful, but bad sensory/mental experience for many
Burning throat	Some report mild painful – most haven't
Fast heart rate	Some report 200bpm – like strenuous sprinting but while sitting down – can be scary. Can induce anxiety – see Benzo, Beta-Blockers. Again others were not that bothered.
Taste​
Taste	SN tastes like salt [1] . In high concentration that is disgusting . Some report bad taste – others didn't care. Taste rarely causes vomiting itself Amitryptyline > N > SN (least horrible) Discomfort documented [1][2] – taste complaints "very disgusting" (few felt nothing)
Salt trial	This is not a recommended practice. If very worried – may test with regular kitchen salt. It is not required. Members tried [1] [2] [3] Mostly safe but careful , research Some reported SN taste – don't try! – see above threads .
How to take SN	Quick shot to back of throat – best practice. Don't sip [1] Straw (direct to throat) was suggested , some used – too slow sucking SN? Discussed dozens times, search threads.
Aftertaste	Something strong to overcome taste Without much calories , acidity , irritation Avoid ingestion – at least 10 minutes to allow SN intake [1]
Aftertaste – Tips	Suck ice cube before/after – reduce taste, soothes (see here) Drink 50ml ice water – refreshing (don't drink much) Gargle mouthwash (or water) Suck on: Chocolate tablet Mint Bit honey , jam Anything that won't be ingested / irritate stomach
Vomiting ​
Vomiting	SN fatal even if vomited 50ml on empty stomach (very little) – no prolonged / severe / violent vomitin
Servings / Vomiting practice	Stan's Practice – 3 Servings If vomit before fainting – drink next serving Don't force drink #2 – body already absorbed SN Following Stan practice, example: Serving Serving What happened Drank Vomited Absorbed #1 20g Drank all & vomited a lot 20g 15g 5g #2 20g Partially drank serving & vomited some 14g 7g 7g #3 20g Never used Total SN 12g (fatal) If vomit within 10m – may take more SN Fainting around 12m indicates fatality – sufficient SN absorption (no need for more)
PPH practice , vomiting	PPH Practice - 1 Big Serving Serving Size What happened Drank Vomited Absorbed #1 25g Vomited 25g 15g 10g Total SN 10g (fatal) If vomit within 10m – still fatal – no need for more SN
Dosage​
PPH / Stan	To absorb more SN despite possible vomit -- two strategies emerged: PPH increased dose through the years: 15g –> 20g –> 25g Stan's multiple serving – if vomit take more, 3 x 20g Notes: How many actually drank several servings? Unconfirmed [1] Too much SN may cause instant vomiting? Unconfirmed
Dosage	PPH = 1 x 25g Stan = 3 x 20g
Over 100kg	PPH = 1x 35g Stan = 3x 25g
Under 60kg *	This had been suggested by some , but not confirmed. PPH = 1x 20g Stan = 3x 15g * We have no evidence that special practice is required . PPH addresses old fragile people , many underweight .
Table per weight?	Not required . jgm63 table is mathematical/theoretical and may complicate preparation [1] . We have no info on those dosages , may use at own discretion .
Warnings​
Double dose?	DON'T. Double dose may do the opposite (vomiting all instead of some), though we don't know and PPH have doubled the dose through the years.
Routes of administration?	DON'T. Search threads. Enema – strong salts burn and literally destroy membranes . (example , more) Capsules – need quick SN and in intestines -- capsules interfere , not practical (details , absorption) IV / Injection -- Vein will collapse , SN won't enter blood (destroy membranes) [1] ; not practical [2] [3]
Alcohol	DON'T. Search threads. 100ml alcohol changes everything Stomach acidity, metabolism, and absorption (even 3h after drink) Vomit more and/or violently Opposite effects -- increase anxiety/headache Recommendation is to barely drink water for max SN absorption, additions are counter productive, don't mix poisons.
Weed / Marijuana / MDMA	DON'T. Search threads. Weed not strong antiemetic Psychoactive effects while ctb – hazardous Intensify feeling – panic & survival instinct Freak out , unpredictable Combining 2 extreme experiences in one Example , example , example , and plenty more
Can I drink after SN?	NO. Read members testimonies. Your stomach will be in turmoil , interacting with SN , with chances of vomiting -- adding more to the mix is bad. [1] Suggested aftertaste solutions, and small gulp of water, would do little harm.

~

Fasting .
Timeline	5h before SN– light meal – start fasting. Individual , may consider 4h or 6h Avoid alcohol Next 3 hours– water, non-acidic juices – moderation (glass or two) Avoid acidic, carbonated, caffeinated, fatty drinks. See snack options Next hour – Only water. Drink freely , that is few glasses (not litres) [1] Next hour – complete fast (no drinking) After SN– may have a small chocolate tablet or mint etc for taste Don't overdo – may cause nausea Example and discussion
Timeline (brief)	00:00 Light meal , start fasting Water ok Some snacks , light juices 03:00 Only water 04:00 Stop water 05:00 SN Intake
Juices	Juices/shakes made with either carrot, aloe, cabbage, beet, watermelon, spinach, cucumber, pear, etc You know your stomach better.
Snacks	Fruit & veg – simple non-acidic, small amount. Candy – simple sugars, no fat, up to 100 calories Apples are acidic and fiberous (long travel in intestines) but 1 small apple 4h before SN could be ok – you know your stomach.
Acidic, carbonated, caffeinated, fatty drinks?	Avoid. If must have – 3h before SN intake (at most 2h) Not recommended
Original PPH timeline (strict)	8h before intake – light meal , start fasting Next 6 hours: Some water. If must drink – small amounts of non-acidic juices Next 2 hours: Complete fast – no drinking
Why did it change?	Quick gastric emptying for fluids and simple sugars pH returns to normal 1h after emptying Intestines partially empty – is sufficient for SN absorption See detailed version with data

 

[russian_roulette]

Geo, really, I love you for your ideas!
You make ctb even more delicious.

 

[Quarky00]

TL;DR

• SN with oil should be fine -- but test size and quantity of result
• Perhaps create small "SN Pills" !

Preface
Tried to summarize aspects about "freezing SN" with previous ideas and notes. This is not suggested as a guide but rather a thought exercise. Collating some information and bouncing some ideas. If this is feasible and the end result is fine this could be a really nice solution, not just to the taste issue but simplify general intake of SN: Instead of measuring and stirring right before we ctb, which could be troubling, this creates "SN Pills" that are really ready to use instantly. I could create my personal kit for myself -- with "dry pills" and "frozen pills" -- handy and friendly to use.


(The orange "pills" are honey/mint taken before and after, and the white "pills" are SN)


This is my actual pill box (dirty on-the-road), I would mark with a permanent marker how many minutes to take before SN (60,30,25). Like for idiots.




Technical Aspects - Oils & Salts
I used to make home suppositories, and coconut oil based creams for different applications. The oil does not become solid hard like a brick (okay), and once out of the freezer it turns soft quickly. Some ingredients do not mix well or easily, though I wouldn't say that it doesn't mix at all. It will not dissolve (like water) but remain a mixture which is not consistent. As the mixture settles SN particles could sink down and separate. So it's not as if that won't work -- it's just requires some practice and depended on the contents.

My experience is that magnesium chloride flakes, which are pretty soluble in water, do not mix well with oil. There were spots of magnesium inside the frozen oil and it mostly seperated. Adding a magnesium water solution was even worse (water-oil cliche). People have suggested using an emulsifier, and I have Xantham Gum and tested it. Emulsifiers usually increase viscosity and lower freezing temperature so the resulting mixture doesn't freeze well. So emulsifier do not help (great for ice cream though).

As for this suggested Coconut Oil practice:

• SN will not dissolve in the oil -- it will be a mixture -- and can sink down and seperate
• The SN will probably not react so it would be potent / active / fatal
• The oil will somewhat slow digestion -- 2 tablespoon of oil is not much but significant.

Potency & Storage of Frozen Salts
I did notice that my magnesium-oil mixture did not harm the magnesium potency. It burned my tongue like hell. Unlike magnesium sulphate (Epsom) or magnesium hydroxide (Milk of Magnesia) which can be diluted and consumed in small amounts, magnesium chloride is a harsh corrosive salt and should never be used orally. It's not salty but extremely burning.

However my taste buds are not reliable indication, perhaps my initial 100% magnesium chloride turned into 90% when frozen with oil. But this means the chloride and magnesium did not only separated to ions (which is normal and fine) but somehow actually converted to a new substance -- this is rare in general and especially under freezing conditions.

It was generally thought that freezing SN (with or without water) may hurt its potency.

1. In a thread from December a member that had frozen her SN solution threw it away, after showing a reliable scientific resource which claimed frozen SN solutions change their qualities/properties. Sadly I cannot find that thread now. It was really insightful. I have no reason to doubt that scientific source at all, but I think those were microscopic interactions inside the solution and it does not change the composition and potency.
2. As was mentioned several times in the FAQ- Storage , and after thorough research, it appears that labs that handle delicate samples and require extremely precise amounts of pure NaNO2 cannot store SN solutions, however labs that are fine with 1% variability (like us: 95%-99%) are fine with refrigeration for up to 3 weeks (Image 1). This is done in sterile environment and with distilled water. Doing so at home will introduce tiny amounts of minerals and bacteria that may interact with NaNO2 very slowly and slightly degrade it. If a lab requires 3 weeks to maintain reasonable SN purity, I guess at home we would limit that to 1 week (or even just a few days). I still wouldn't recommend refrigeration for longer than a day as a practice, because I haven't tested it. But it does not seem to pose a problem.
3. Different threads had touched on SN (solid) durability in extremely cold temperatures. For example: SN exposed to —55 degrees C. @Dear Flabby, that had fatally ctbed, detailed that her SN was potent even after exposure to extreme cold.
4. In a different discussion @nitrogen gave some information about SN solubility in cold temperatures, which crystallizes (it's not bad). The Honorable Lady later suggested it might be possible to freeze SN in tiny ice balls (Image 2), which at the time I found flimsy and not practical for no apparent reason (Stupid @Quarky00 )because the ice balls appear large and we'd need several of those for 50ml. The suggestion in that thread was to swallow the SN ice balls quickly, thus avoiding taste.
   1. The Lady had suggested it would dissolve in stomach much faster than any capsules (or Rizla "bombs" for that matter), and I concur.
   2. The Lady noted that frozen would be absorbed in stomach slower than liquid SN, since it will require some time to 'melt' into liquid. That is true, but I think it should still be quick, especially if it's tiny ice balls taken with water.
   3. To conclude: the ice balls method could be nice. That said the ice balls seem too big to swallow.

Handling "SN Balls" in Recipe
Regarding step (7) "Shape them into 1, 2 or 3 bullets (So Easy To Swallow)":

• I don't think it is dangerous but we should warn about handling SN with your hands. It could burn and/or mildly irritate the skin. I don't if that is true, but if so I don't think it's dangerous or harmful. Still keep in mind.
• Why should we shape it in the form of bullets? That could hurt the throat (see @nitrogen reference bellow). Should form pill-like balls.
• Would that indeed amount to 3 balls? If using those amounts that could be 5, or perhaps 10 balls, I don't know. I'm just noting that we need to check this, I mean, 5 nice tiny balls are still doable (easy to swallow).

Regarding step (8) "Swallow immediately"

• I wonder if, after making the perfect "pill" like that, we could or should keep it frozen for when needed. Why bother through all the hassle of 'sculpturing' frozen stuff right before ctb, with SI in the background, and when we might have some hazy feeling (benzo? tired?), if we could freeze those and keep them for later, instant, usage.

Suggested Experiment -- and a Problem
Sadly I cannot experiment now since I don't have my kitchen/lab and materials, but I suggest others could try. I don't know how many "pills" would a 25g SN solution requires (arrrg miss my kitchen), if it's 10-20 that would be nice.

1. Nuke 2 tablespoons of Coconut oil for 1 minute
2. Add 2 teaspoons of regular kitchen salt (NaCl)
3. Stir for 20 seconds -- it won't dissolve well, you will see grains, that is fine. Try to spread it in the mixture.
4. Freeze till it's hard -- in a container like small pills

Frozen pill-sized balls should be a nice intake form of SN. Considering @nitrogen suggestion, and looking at the size of these small ice balls, that could be a problem. If it's the size of a finger (Image 3) it would be hard to swallow such a big thing. I have considered other ice cube trays but the smallest one I could find (Image 4) is 1cm x 1cm x 1cm, which I consider a bit big to swallow.

My multivitamin tablets are similar in size and so are my big Calcium-Magnesium tablets, and they get stuck in my throat often, taking time to slide down. While swallowing these daily is a negligent inconvenience, (a) I wouldn't want an SN cube stuck in my throat (yikes), (b) I wouldn't like to be thinking about this when I ctb... So it's not about being spoiled and some ridiculous perfection -- when you're standing at the edge of the cliff looking down towards death anything can be scary.


Solution - "SN Pills" and 'afterpills'
I can't believe we haven't thought about it sooner, but what about freezing SN solution, either water or oil based, in PILLS PACK? As I was googling I stumbled upon a "tiny ice cube tray" (Image 5). That tutorial was "strictly for adults who are miniature collectors" (Image 6). So why not use pills pack? I know in many places those come in a bottle, but in many instances there are OTC medication that come in a blister pack . That could be perfect to freeze tiny "SN pills" (Image 7).

• There could be dozen of those, who cares if we swallow them quickly (20+ would be a hassle)
• We don't need the 50ml water -- because we take the pills with water
• We can use 20ml of water -- SN will not dissolve (which is fine) -- and freeze mixture
• Intake: need to throw 'SN pills' quickly in mouth and drink water instantly -- otherwise 'pills' will melt in mouth (or hand)

The last point about condensed SN pills melting in mouth is important. Maybe we could freeze mint or honey pills and take one before and one after. The "frozen mint ball" is probably some frozen mint extract (idk). It's better than just taking a mint because the frozen 'pill' (with the mint) will decrease the taste buds sensitivity before, as well as sooth afterwards. This could be a nice idea to create a before pill and after pill. I don't think it's a hassle because one wouldn't do that on the ctb day but several weeks before. A small 'cooking session'. During intake one would have an orderly 1 mint/honey frozen pill (to suck), 5-10 SN pills (to swallow quickly), and finish with 1 mint/honey pill (suck). All in order, in the same small frozen pills' blister pack.

Another solution per the freezing container would be to use any other container that is of small size or narrow proportions , and/or use the bottom of such, to create some form of small pills / balls / rounded bullets (Image 8). In that case one could wait a minute or two after taking the frozen pack from the freezer to allow some minimal melting -- since, as @nitrogen wrote, "sharp edges that can scratch the esophagus as they go down". (really important point when swallowing anything frozen!)


Otherwise Bypassing Taste
As @Jumper Geo suggested humorously:

Smother SN and Coconut Oil bullet or bullets in Chocolate

So I was thinking about what could be added to those SN pills, like flavour extracts (some are very strong and concentrated). Well, actually -- nothing! Since I have tasted magnesium chloride (extreme instant burning) and kitchen salt (extremely salty), I don't think anything can be added to SN to reduce its taste. I do believe that SN is not worse than these two substances I have tasted. These were really unbearable and according to what people say SN should be milder. Digressing..

Anyway, the only winning strategy here is not to add anything to SN, but to take something that reduce taste buds sensitivity before, and soothes or overwhelms any residues after. If we are taking 10 small "SN Pills" that should take us 5 seconds of actual discomfort, bad taste (minimized beforehand and by freezing), and then we can clear the palate.


SN Intake Outside
This is really out of this thread's scope, but since I will ctb outside and others have asked what to do and got confused about taking stuff (scales etc). The reason I'm addressing that here is because I suddenly realized that freezing SN is an option.

I'd freeze a solution of 25g of SN with 50ml water in the smallest bottle/container possible. When needed I'll take it with me outside, it should melt within 60m, and ready to use. Despite the warnings not to freeze SN, that is a possibility.

Since this is not possible for those with parents or supervision (storing poisons in the freezer lol), another possibility is to prepare well beforehand 25g of SN in a small plastic bag (Image 9) or small plastic sauce container (Image 10). Put that in a plastic bag (like for sandwiches) and it should be fine for several good months, even a year. When needed I'll take that with me and about ¼ of a 250ml mineral water bottle (use eyes for rough estimate it's fine), pour powder in bottle, shake, and drink. That is my plan.

Along with the "dry" pills box (paracetamol benzo etc) this could be a nice on-the-go kit, which is better than my clumsy big January kit (Image 11):

1. Small SN bag + well marked pill box = measure totally 5cm X 2cm (or 2inch X 1inch)
2. Small bottle of water.

Really tiny neat pack!



Image 1: Storage of 2.5% Sodium Nitrite Solution



Image 2: Nitrogen's ice balls tray
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/attachments/screen-shot-2020-02-06-at-11-32-24-am-png.26534/

Image 3: Ice Balls too big



Image 4: Smallest Tray is 1cm

Image 5: Tiny Ice Cube Tray



Image 6: Miniatures (Hobby)



Image 7: Blister Packs could be used to freeze "SN pills"

Image 8: Other small container can be used as well

Image 9: Small Plastic Bag, SN Powder

Image 10: Small Plastic Sauce Container



Image 11: My January Clumsy Kit
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/attachments/20200126_ctb_kit_2-jpg.25623/

 

[Jumper Geo]

Here's a post from the SN FAQ. I'm not going to edit out the irrelevant info. What is relevant is info about temperatures, calories, and sugar. So far I've only ever seen that SN should not be heated, I've never seen anything about it being frozen, may require a web search or site search.

Thanks for the info and feedback, I read you can refrigerate it so I just carried a 10 minute test putting 30 grams of salt in the freezer and I checked, it was cold but not frozen or moist so I think it's the coconut oil that freezes to bind the powder together.

I would have done the chocolate test but I haven't any, lol

Cheers

Geo

Geo, really, I love you for your ideas!
You make ctb even more delicious.

It would be nice ctb after eating a tasty treat, lol

 

[C_F]

Great feedback for making SN easier to take! A special thanks to @Quarky00.

I wonder though if the coconut oil, papers, etc would interfere with the absorption of SN.

I think following many of the steps and precautions we have on this site to CTB via SN (Stan's guide too) are for not only an absolute death but for it to be quick and a fairly comfortable passing as well.

When people have posted about drinking SN with something sweet or any eating 8 hours before, the replies would be a hard no as it would interfere with absorption, create stomach acids, take longer to pass out, etc.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Jumper Geo]

TL;DR

• SN with oil should be fine -- but test size and quantity of result
• Perhaps create small "SN Pills" !

Preface
Tried to summarize aspects about "freezing SN" with previous ideas and notes. This is not suggested as a guide but rather a thought exercise. Collating some information and bouncing some ideas. If this is feasible and the end result is fine this could be a really nice solution, not just to the taste issue but simplify general intake of SN: Instead of measuring and stirring right before we ctb, which could be troubling, this creates "SN Pills" that are really ready to use instantly. I could create my personal kit for myself -- with "dry pills" and "frozen pills" -- handy and friendly to use.

View attachment 33324
(The orange "pills" are honey/mint taken before and after, and the white "pills" are SN)

View attachment 33327
This is my actual pill box (dirty on-the-road), I would mark with a permanent marker how many minutes to take before SN (60,30,25). Like for idiots.




Technical Aspects - Oils & Salts
I used to make home suppositories, and coconut oil based creams for different applications. The oil does not become solid hard like a brick (okay), and once out of the freezer it turns soft quickly. Some ingredients do not mix well or easily, though I wouldn't say that it doesn't mix at all. It will not dissolve (like water) but remain a mixture which is not consistent. As the mixture settles SN particles could sink down and separate. So it's not as if that won't work -- it's just requires some practice and depended on the contents.

My experience is that magnesium chloride flakes, which are pretty soluble in water, do not mix well with oil. There were spots of magnesium inside the frozen oil and it mostly seperated. Adding a magnesium water solution was even worse (water-oil cliche). People have suggested using an emulsifier, and I have Xantham Gum and tested it. Emulsifiers usually increase viscosity and lower freezing temperature so the resulting mixture doesn't freeze well. So emulsifier do not help (great for ice cream though).

As for this suggested Coconut Oil practice:

• SN will not dissolve in the oil -- it will be a mixture -- and can sink down and seperate
• The SN will probably not react so it would be potent / active / fatal
• The oil will somewhat slow digestion -- 2 tablespoon of oil is not much but significant.

Potency & Storage of Frozen Salts
I did notice that my magnesium-oil mixture did not harm the magnesium potency. It burned my tongue like hell. Unlike magnesium sulphate (Epsom) or magnesium hydroxide (Milk of Magnesia) which can be diluted and consumed in small amounts, magnesium chloride is a harsh corrosive salt and should never be used orally. It's not salty but extremely burning.

However my taste buds are not reliable indication, perhaps my initial 100% magnesium chloride turned into 90% when frozen with oil. But this means the chloride and magnesium did not only separated to ions (which is normal and fine) but somehow actually converted to a new substance -- this is rare in general and especially under freezing conditions.

It was generally thought that freezing SN (with or without water) may hurt its potency.

1. In a thread from December a member that had frozen her SN solution threw it away, after showing a reliable scientific resource which claimed frozen SN solutions change their qualities/properties. Sadly I cannot find that thread now. It was really insightful. I have no reason to doubt that scientific source at all, but I think those were microscopic interactions inside the solution and it does not change the composition and potency.
2. As was mentioned several times in the FAQ- Storage , and after thorough research, it appears that labs that handle delicate samples and require extremely precise amounts of pure NaNO2 cannot store SN solutions, however labs that are fine with 1% variability (like us: 95%-99%) are fine with refrigeration for up to 3 weeks (Image 1). This is done in sterile environment and with distilled water. Doing so at home will introduce tiny amounts of minerals and bacteria that may interact with NaNO2 very slowly and slightly degrade it. If a lab requires 3 weeks to maintain reasonable SN purity, I guess at home we would limit that to 1 week (or even just a few days). I still wouldn't recommend refrigeration for longer than a day as a practice, because I haven't tested it. But it does not seem to pose a problem.
3. Different threads had touched on SN (solid) durability in extremely cold temperatures. For example: SN exposed to —55 degrees C. @Dear Flabby, that had fatally ctbed, detailed that her SN was potent even after exposure to extreme cold.
4. In a different discussion @nitrogen gave some information about SN solubility in cold temperatures, which crystallizes (it's not bad). The Honorable Lady later suggested it might be possible to freeze SN in tiny ice balls (Image 2), which at the time I found flimsy and not practical for no apparent reason (Stupid @Quarky00 )because the ice balls appear large and we'd need several of those for 50ml. The suggestion in that thread was to swallow the SN ice balls quickly, thus avoiding taste.
   1. The Lady had suggested it would dissolve in stomach much faster than any capsules (or Rizla "bombs" for that matter), and I concur.
   2. The Lady noted that frozen would be absorbed in stomach slower than liquid SN, since it will require some time to 'melt' into liquid. That is true, but I think it should still be quick, especially if it's tiny ice balls taken with water.
   3. To conclude: the ice balls method could be nice. That said the ice balls seem too big to swallow.

Handling "SN Balls" in this Recipe
Regarding step (7) "Shape them into 1, 2 or 3 bullets (So Easy To Swallow)":

• I don't think it is dangerous but we should warn about handling SN with your hands. It could burn and/or mildly irritate the skin. I don't if that is true, but if so I don't think it's dangerous or harmful. Still keep in mind.
• Why should we shape it in the form of bullets? That could hurt the throat (see @nitrogen reference bellow). Should form pill-like balls.
• Would that indeed amount to 3 balls? If using those amounts that could be 5, or perhaps 10 balls, I don't know. I'm just noting that we need to check this, I mean, 5 nice tiny balls are still doable (easy to swallow).

Regarding step (8) "Swallow immediately"

• I wonder if, after making the perfect "pill" like that, we could or should keep it frozen for when needed. Why bother through all the hassle of 'sculpturing' frozen stuff right before ctb, with SI in the background, and when we might have some hazy feeling (benzo? tired?), if we could freeze those and keep them for later, instant, usage.

Experiment
Sadly I cannot experiment now since I don't have my kitchen/lab and materials, but I suggest others could try. I don't know how many "pills" would a 25g SN solution requires (arrrg miss my kitchen), if it's 10-20 that would be nice.

1. Nuke 2 tablespoons of Coconut oil for 1 minute
2. Add 2 teaspoons of regular kitchen salt (NaCl)
3. Stir for 20 seconds -- it won't dissolve well, you will see grains, that is fine. Try to spread it in the mixture.
4. Freeze till it's hard -- in a container like small pills

Frozen pill-sized balls should be a nice intake form of SN. Considering @nitrogen suggestion, and looking at the size of these small ice balls, that could be a problem. If it's the size of a finger (Image 3) it would be hard to swallow such a big thing. I have considered other ice cube trays but the smallest one I could find (Image 4) is 1cm x 1cm x 1cm, which I consider a bit big to swallow.
My multi-vitamin tablets are similar in size and so are my Calcium-Magnesium tablets, and they get stuck in my throat often, taking time to slide down. While swallowing these daily is a negligent inconvenience, (a) I wouldn't want an SN cube stuck in my throat (yikes), (b) I wouldn't like to be thinking about this when I ctb. So it's not about being spoiled and some ridiculous perfection -- when you're standing at the edge of the cliff looking down towards death anything can be scary.


Solution - "SN Pills" and 'afterpills'
I can't believe we haven't thought about it sooner, but what about freezing SN solution, either water or oil based, in PILLS PACK? As I was googling and refining further I came to a "tiny ice cube tray" result (Image 5). That tutorial was "strictly for adults who are miniature collectors" (Image 6). So why not just use pills pack? I know in many places those come in a bottle, but in many instances there are OTC medication that come in a blister pack . That could be perfect to freeze tiny "SN pills" (Image 7).

• There could be dozen of those, who cares if we swallow them quickly.
• We don't need the 50ml water -- because we drink the water with the pills.
• We can use 20ml of water, SN will not dissolve (which is fine) -- and freeze mixture
• Intake: need to throw 'SN pills' quickly in mouth and drink water instantly -- otherwise 'pills' will melt in mouth

The last point is important, so maybe we can freeze 2 mint or honey pills, take 1 before and 1 after. The "frozen mint ball" is probably some mint extract frozen. It's better than just taking a mint because the frozen 'pill' (with the mint) will decrease the taste buds sensitivity before, as well as soothing. This could be a nice idea to create a before pill and after pill. I don't think it's a hassle because one wouldn't do that on the ctb day, but several weeks before. And during intake one would have an orderly 1 mint/honey frozen pill (to suck), 5-10 SN pills (to swallow quickly), and finish with 1 mint/honey pill (suck). All in order, in the same small frozen pills' blister pack.

Another solution would be to use any other container that is of small size or narrow proportions , and/or use the bottom of it, to create some form of small pills / balls / rounded bullets (Image 8). In that case one could wait a minute or two after taking the frozen pack from the freezer to allow some minimal melting -- since, as @nitrogen wrote, "sharp edges that can scratch the esophagus as they go down".


Otherwise Bypassing Taste
As @Jumper Geo suggested humorously:

So I was thinking about what could be added to those SN pills, like flavour extracts (some are very strong and concentrated). Well, actually -- nothing! Since I have tasted magnesium chloride (extreme instant burning) and kitchen salt (extremely salty), I don't think anything can be added to SN to reduce its taste. I do believe that SN is not worse than these two substances I have tasted. These were really unbearable and according to what people say SN should be milder. Digressing..

Anyway, the only winning strategy here is not to add anything to SN, but to take something that reduce taste buds sensitivity before, and soothes or overwhelms any residues after. If we are taking 10 small "SN Pills" that should take us 5 seconds of actual discomfort, bad taste (minimized beforehand and by freezing), and then we can clear the palate.


SN Intake Outside
This is really out of this thread's scope, but since I will ctb outside and others have asked what to do and got confused about taking stuff (scales etc), there is another possibility. I'd freeze a solution of 25g of SN with 50ml water in the smallest bottle/container possible. When needed I'll take it with me outside, it should melt within 60m, and ready to use. Despite the warnings not to freeze SN, that is a possibility.

Since this is not possible for those with parents or supervision (storing poisons in the freezer lol), another possibility is to prepare well beforehand 25g of SN in a small plastic bag (Image 9) or small plastic sauce container (Image 10). Put that in a plastic bag (like for sandwiches) and it should be fine for several good months, even a year. When needed I'll take that with me and about ¼ of a 250ml mineral water bottle (use eyes for rough estimate it's fine), pour powder in bottle, shake, and drink. That is my plan.

Along with the "dry" pills box (paracetamol benzo etc) this could be a nice on-the-go kit, which is better than my clumsy big January kit (Image 11): Small SN bag and well prepared pill box will measure 5cm X 2cm (or 2inch X 1inch), and just add small bottle of water. Really tiny neat pack.



Image 1: Storage of 2.5% Sodium Nitrite Solution
View attachment 33312


Image 2: Nitrogen's ice balls tray
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/attachments/screen-shot-2020-02-06-at-11-32-24-am-png.26534/

Image 3: Ice Balls too big
View attachment 33313


Image 4: Smallest Tray is 1cm

Image 5: Tiny Ice Cube Tray
View attachment 33315


Image 6: Miniatures (Hobby)
View attachment 33316


Image 7: Blister Packs could be used to freeze "SN pills"

Image 8: Other small container can be used as well

Image 9: Small Plastic Bag, SN Powder

Image 10: Small Plastic Sauce Container
View attachment 33331


Image 11: My January Clumsy Kit
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/attachments/20200126_ctb_kit_2-jpg.25623/

Thanks Quarky00

Really appreciate your research I looked at capsules and other methods which will work but I am looking at taking 1 large bullet that's why I looked at the coconut suppository method but eating instead, I think it would work very well as the YouTube video shows you after 10 minute freezing it was perfect to mould into a bullet shape to make it easier to swallow unlike the Rizla which is circular. I am going to test my Dark Chocolate SN mix maybe in a few days that would make it even more tastier to ctb, haha.

Thank God that was OK my next bright idea was melting wax and shaping into a bullet then pour the SN in and squeeze the ends together and then submerge in dark chocolate and freeze for 10 minutes,

Thanks again

Cheers

Geo

 

[Quarky00]

I am looking at taking 1 large bullet

You will not be able to swallow it.

Unless you meant rectal suppository and you're basically having a laugh? If so I will kill you , arrg.. oh wait ..

 

[Jumper Geo]

You will not be able to swallow it.

Unless you meant rectal suppository and you're basically having a laugh? If so I will kill you , arrg.. oh wait ..

Haha, I swallowed 10 grams of bicarbonate of soda in a Rizla that was circular, I will have no problem with a 30 gram in a chocolate bullet I might even prepare a 2nd one in case I like it, I will have to get this stickies as the YUM, YUM CTB,

What about @C_F comment I will leave that to you to answer I have done so much reading I am going to close my eye for 30 minutes, I will say after the SN is released into the stomach it will automatically mix with the water.

Cheers

Geo

 

[Aap]

I'll be brief and just say that nothing is absorbed until it is dissolved. even insoluble compounds a tiny fraction that is. What you are doing is guaranteeing at best delayed gastric emptying and delayed absorption. Neither of these is good with sn.

sn is salty tasting yes. However I suspect some of the immediate vomiting attributed to taste also has an extreme anxiety component that would be present no matter what.

 

[Living sucks]

TL;DR

• SN with oil should be fine -- but test size and quantity of result
• Perhaps create small "SN Pills" !

Preface
Tried to summarize aspects about "freezing SN" with previous ideas and notes. This is not suggested as a guide but rather a thought exercise. Collating some information and bouncing some ideas. If this is feasible and the end result is fine this could be a really nice solution, not just to the taste issue but simplify general intake of SN: Instead of measuring and stirring right before we ctb, which could be troubling, this creates "SN Pills" that are really ready to use instantly. I could create my personal kit for myself -- with "dry pills" and "frozen pills" -- handy and friendly to use.

View attachment 33324
(The orange "pills" are honey/mint taken before and after, and the white "pills" are SN)

View attachment 33327
This is my actual pill box (dirty on-the-road), I would mark with a permanent marker how many minutes to take before SN (60,30,25). Like for idiots.




Technical Aspects - Oils & Salts
I used to make home suppositories, and coconut oil based creams for different applications. The oil does not become solid hard like a brick (okay), and once out of the freezer it turns soft quickly. Some ingredients do not mix well or easily, though I wouldn't say that it doesn't mix at all. It will not dissolve (like water) but remain a mixture which is not consistent. As the mixture settles SN particles could sink down and separate. So it's not as if that won't work -- it's just requires some practice and depended on the contents.

My experience is that magnesium chloride flakes, which are pretty soluble in water, do not mix well with oil. There were spots of magnesium inside the frozen oil and it mostly seperated. Adding a magnesium water solution was even worse (water-oil cliche). People have suggested using an emulsifier, and I have Xantham Gum and tested it. Emulsifiers usually increase viscosity and lower freezing temperature so the resulting mixture doesn't freeze well. So emulsifier do not help (great for ice cream though).

As for this suggested Coconut Oil practice:

• SN will not dissolve in the oil -- it will be a mixture -- and can sink down and seperate
• The SN will probably not react so it would be potent / active / fatal
• The oil will somewhat slow digestion -- 2 tablespoon of oil is not much but significant.

Potency & Storage of Frozen Salts
I did notice that my magnesium-oil mixture did not harm the magnesium potency. It burned my tongue like hell. Unlike magnesium sulphate (Epsom) or magnesium hydroxide (Milk of Magnesia) which can be diluted and consumed in small amounts, magnesium chloride is a harsh corrosive salt and should never be used orally. It's not salty but extremely burning.

However my taste buds are not reliable indication, perhaps my initial 100% magnesium chloride turned into 90% when frozen with oil. But this means the chloride and magnesium did not only separated to ions (which is normal and fine) but somehow actually converted to a new substance -- this is rare in general and especially under freezing conditions.

It was generally thought that freezing SN (with or without water) may hurt its potency.

1. In a thread from December a member that had frozen her SN solution threw it away, after showing a reliable scientific resource which claimed frozen SN solutions change their qualities/properties. Sadly I cannot find that thread now. It was really insightful. I have no reason to doubt that scientific source at all, but I think those were microscopic interactions inside the solution and it does not change the composition and potency.
2. As was mentioned several times in the FAQ- Storage , and after thorough research, it appears that labs that handle delicate samples and require extremely precise amounts of pure NaNO2 cannot store SN solutions, however labs that are fine with 1% variability (like us: 95%-99%) are fine with refrigeration for up to 3 weeks (Image 1). This is done in sterile environment and with distilled water. Doing so at home will introduce tiny amounts of minerals and bacteria that may interact with NaNO2 very slowly and slightly degrade it. If a lab requires 3 weeks to maintain reasonable SN purity, I guess at home we would limit that to 1 week (or even just a few days). I still wouldn't recommend refrigeration for longer than a day as a practice, because I haven't tested it. But it does not seem to pose a problem.
3. Different threads had touched on SN (solid) durability in extremely cold temperatures. For example: SN exposed to —55 degrees C. @Dear Flabby, that had fatally ctbed, detailed that her SN was potent even after exposure to extreme cold.
4. In a different discussion @nitrogen gave some information about SN solubility in cold temperatures, which crystallizes (it's not bad). The Honorable Lady later suggested it might be possible to freeze SN in tiny ice balls (Image 2), which at the time I found flimsy and not practical for no apparent reason (Stupid @Quarky00 )because the ice balls appear large and we'd need several of those for 50ml. The suggestion in that thread was to swallow the SN ice balls quickly, thus avoiding taste.
   1. The Lady had suggested it would dissolve in stomach much faster than any capsules (or Rizla "bombs" for that matter), and I concur.
   2. The Lady noted that frozen would be absorbed in stomach slower than liquid SN, since it will require some time to 'melt' into liquid. That is true, but I think it should still be quick, especially if it's tiny ice balls taken with water.
   3. To conclude: the ice balls method could be nice. That said the ice balls seem too big to swallow.

Handling "SN Balls" in Recipe
Regarding step (7) "Shape them into 1, 2 or 3 bullets (So Easy To Swallow)":

• I don't think it is dangerous but we should warn about handling SN with your hands. It could burn and/or mildly irritate the skin. I don't if that is true, but if so I don't think it's dangerous or harmful. Still keep in mind.
• Why should we shape it in the form of bullets? That could hurt the throat (see @nitrogen reference bellow). Should form pill-like balls.
• Would that indeed amount to 3 balls? If using those amounts that could be 5, or perhaps 10 balls, I don't know. I'm just noting that we need to check this, I mean, 5 nice tiny balls are still doable (easy to swallow).

Regarding step (8) "Swallow immediately"

• I wonder if, after making the perfect "pill" like that, we could or should keep it frozen for when needed. Why bother through all the hassle of 'sculpturing' frozen stuff right before ctb, with SI in the background, and when we might have some hazy feeling (benzo? tired?), if we could freeze those and keep them for later, instant, usage.

Suggested Experiment -- and a Problem
Sadly I cannot experiment now since I don't have my kitchen/lab and materials, but I suggest others could try. I don't know how many "pills" would a 25g SN solution requires (arrrg miss my kitchen), if it's 10-20 that would be nice.

1. Nuke 2 tablespoons of Coconut oil for 1 minute
2. Add 2 teaspoons of regular kitchen salt (NaCl)
3. Stir for 20 seconds -- it won't dissolve well, you will see grains, that is fine. Try to spread it in the mixture.
4. Freeze till it's hard -- in a container like small pills

Frozen pill-sized balls should be a nice intake form of SN. Considering @nitrogen suggestion, and looking at the size of these small ice balls, that could be a problem. If it's the size of a finger (Image 3) it would be hard to swallow such a big thing. I have considered other ice cube trays but the smallest one I could find (Image 4) is 1cm x 1cm x 1cm, which I consider a bit big to swallow.

My multivitamin tablets are similar in size and so are my big Calcium-Magnesium tablets, and they get stuck in my throat often, taking time to slide down. While swallowing these daily is a negligent inconvenience, (a) I wouldn't want an SN cube stuck in my throat (yikes), (b) I wouldn't like to be thinking about this when I ctb... So it's not about being spoiled and some ridiculous perfection -- when you're standing at the edge of the cliff looking down towards death anything can be scary.


Solution - "SN Pills" and 'afterpills'
I can't believe we haven't thought about it sooner, but what about freezing SN solution, either water or oil based, in PILLS PACK? As I was googling I stumbled upon a "tiny ice cube tray" (Image 5). That tutorial was "strictly for adults who are miniature collectors" (Image 6). So why not use pills pack? I know in many places those come in a bottle, but in many instances there are OTC medication that come in a blister pack . That could be perfect to freeze tiny "SN pills" (Image 7).

• There could be dozen of those, who cares if we swallow them quickly (20+ would be a hassle)
• We don't need the 50ml water -- because we take the pills with water
• We can use 20ml of water -- SN will not dissolve (which is fine) -- and freeze mixture
• Intake: need to throw 'SN pills' quickly in mouth and drink water instantly -- otherwise 'pills' will melt in mouth (or hand)

The last point about condensed SN pills melting in mouth is important. Maybe we could freeze mint or honey pills and take one before and one after. The "frozen mint ball" is probably some frozen mint extract (idk). It's better than just taking a mint because the frozen 'pill' (with the mint) will decrease the taste buds sensitivity before, as well as sooth afterwards. This could be a nice idea to create a before pill and after pill. I don't think it's a hassle because one wouldn't do that on the ctb day but several weeks before. A small 'cooking session'. During intake one would have an orderly 1 mint/honey frozen pill (to suck), 5-10 SN pills (to swallow quickly), and finish with 1 mint/honey pill (suck). All in order, in the same small frozen pills' blister pack.

Another solution per the freezing container would be to use any other container that is of small size or narrow proportions , and/or use the bottom of such, to create some form of small pills / balls / rounded bullets (Image 8). In that case one could wait a minute or two after taking the frozen pack from the freezer to allow some minimal melting -- since, as @nitrogen wrote, "sharp edges that can scratch the esophagus as they go down". (really important point when swallowing anything frozen!)


Otherwise Bypassing Taste
As @Jumper Geo suggested humorously:

So I was thinking about what could be added to those SN pills, like flavour extracts (some are very strong and concentrated). Well, actually -- nothing! Since I have tasted magnesium chloride (extreme instant burning) and kitchen salt (extremely salty), I don't think anything can be added to SN to reduce its taste. I do believe that SN is not worse than these two substances I have tasted. These were really unbearable and according to what people say SN should be milder. Digressing..

Anyway, the only winning strategy here is not to add anything to SN, but to take something that reduce taste buds sensitivity before, and soothes or overwhelms any residues after. If we are taking 10 small "SN Pills" that should take us 5 seconds of actual discomfort, bad taste (minimized beforehand and by freezing), and then we can clear the palate.


SN Intake Outside
This is really out of this thread's scope, but since I will ctb outside and others have asked what to do and got confused about taking stuff (scales etc). The reason I'm addressing that here is because I suddenly realized that freezing SN is an option.

I'd freeze a solution of 25g of SN with 50ml water in the smallest bottle/container possible. When needed I'll take it with me outside, it should melt within 60m, and ready to use. Despite the warnings not to freeze SN, that is a possibility.

Since this is not possible for those with parents or supervision (storing poisons in the freezer lol), another possibility is to prepare well beforehand 25g of SN in a small plastic bag (Image 9) or small plastic sauce container (Image 10). Put that in a plastic bag (like for sandwiches) and it should be fine for several good months, even a year. When needed I'll take that with me and about ¼ of a 250ml mineral water bottle (use eyes for rough estimate it's fine), pour powder in bottle, shake, and drink. That is my plan.

Along with the "dry" pills box (paracetamol benzo etc) this could be a nice on-the-go kit, which is better than my clumsy big January kit (Image 11):

1. Small SN bag + well marked pill box = measure totally 5cm X 2cm (or 2inch X 1inch)
2. Small bottle of water.

Really tiny neat pack!



Image 1: Storage of 2.5% Sodium Nitrite Solution
View attachment 33312


Image 2: Nitrogen's ice balls tray
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/attachments/screen-shot-2020-02-06-at-11-32-24-am-png.26534/

Image 3: Ice Balls too big
View attachment 33313


Image 4: Smallest Tray is 1cm

Image 5: Tiny Ice Cube Tray
View attachment 33315


Image 6: Miniatures (Hobby)
View attachment 33316


Image 7: Blister Packs could be used to freeze "SN pills"

Image 8: Other small container can be used as well

Image 9: Small Plastic Bag, SN Powder

Image 10: Small Plastic Sauce Container
View attachment 33330


Image 11: My January Clumsy Kit
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/attachments/20200126_ctb_kit_2-jpg.25623/

It's my understanding that once SN is diluted in water it's potent only for a few hours, maybe 4-6 ?? So it seems to me that diluting it and freezing it would take many hours, thus no longer potent? And could not be kept in the freezer for let's say a week or more waiting to be used.

EDIT And the resource guide says not to refrigerate bcuz of moisture!

 

[_Minsk]

Thank God that was OK my next bright idea was melting wax and shaping into a bullet then pour the SN in and squeeze the ends together and then submerge in dark chocolate and freeze for 10 minutes,

 

[Jumper Geo]

It's my understanding that once SN is diluted in water it's potent only for a few hours, maybe 4-6 ?? So it seems to me that diluting it and freezing it would take many hours, thus no longer potent? And could not be kept in the freezer for let's say a week or more waiting to be used.

It's my understanding that once SN is diluted in water it's potent only for a few hours, maybe 4-6 ?? So it seems to me that diluting it and freezing it would take many hours, thus no longer potent? And could not be kept in the freezer for let's say a week or more waiting to be used.

EDIT And the resource guide says not to refrigerate bcuz of moisture!

Thanks for the feedback, In my original message there is a video DIY Bum Candy it takes 10 minutes only for the Coconut Oil to become hard so she can shape it and wrap it in paper I tested 30 grams of salt in the freezer for 10 minutes it was fine it was just cold no moisture but it says don't overdo in the guide below, but I think 10 minutes and then another 10 minutes for the chocolate to get hard will be OK and swallow without any paper.

Cheers

Geo

Refrigerate?

No. SN is not reactive (only to moisture, heat, strong acid/base) In industry kept at room temperature for years – simple plastic container Refrigerators have moisture – don't overdo

 

[Quarky00]

I swallowed 10 grams of bicarbonate of soda in a Rizla that was circular, I will have no problem with a 30 gram in a chocolate bullet

Selfish you only thinking about yourself! What about all of us the swallowingly-challanged

When people have posted about drinking SN with something sweet or any eating 8 hours before, the replies would be a hard no as it would interfere with absorption, create stomach acids, take longer to pass out, etc.

Stan didn't really finish his guide to the level he wanted, and the knowledge and experience back than was limited -- that was pioneering work. Back then only few had tried SN and even fewer reported it. Many of these things still hold but have been refined and relaxed.

• Taking something sweet will arouse stomach acid and it may still pose a problem -- but so is even thinking about food (see nitrogen's post expanding on acid production). So it is possible to strike some balance here.
• Fasting too much can be a problem for some and irritate stomach or increase acid production, and following N's fasting recommendations for quick intake, which allow for some consumption before, and considering how GI intake works, that had been relaxed (see here about rethinking strict fasting)
• Stan himself said that the acid juices are the least important thing, as perhaps just 1g of SN is contraindicated in stomach, and the rest will pass to the intestines.
• Testing salt as a trial was awful, and so many members complained about taste .

I think main concern is NOT stomach interaction and juices (though should be minimized) -- but QUICK TRANSFER of SN to intestines with little interference. So I'd say jam 5m after intake? Sweet exit.

So how long would it take us to ingest or how heavy burden is something for the GI tract. A tictac is just 2 calories, will that slow down intestines? I don't think so. I've detailed that in the 'strict fasting' post. Sugars are really fast to digest and a small tiny amount won't slow down digestion. A teaspoon of honey or jam should be 25 calories and that's really little.

I wonder though if the coconut oil, papers, etc would interfere with the absorption of SN.

You are right about the first.

• What I said was true for sugars, but that is not the case with oil. 1 spoon of coconut oil is 14g of oil and that's a whopping 121 calories, not to mention that fats are harder (slower) on the intestines. That's basically NO for oil. This is why ice cream was pretty much eliminated. @Jumper Geo oil suggestion will definitely slow down SN intake, and could even increase discomfort (ingesting oil while GI in toxic distress). I'm not sure how bad it would be, and I won't say it will cause SN to fail, nor that it is a good practice. I wouldn't do it.
• As for papers that's cellulose which is overall harder for the GI tract. More mechanical breakdown by stomach (churning) and overall more time in big intestines (that's not important for us-- too late). But a rolling paper is such a tiny thing. One Rizla pack is around 1g with 50 papers, so one would weight 0.02g. Would that amount of cellulose slow down digestion? I don't think so.

 

[Jumper Geo]

Selfish you only thinking about yourself! What about all of us the swallowingly-challanged



Stan didn't really finish his guide to the level he wanted, and the knowledge and experience back than was limited -- that was pioneering work. Back then only few had tried SN and even fewer reported it. Many of these things still hold but have been refined and relaxed.

• Taking something sweet will arouse stomach acid and it may still pose a problem -- but so is even thinking about food (see nitrogen's post expanding on acid production). So it is possible to strike some balance here.
• Fasting too much can be a problem for some and irritate stomach or increase acid production, and following N's fasting recommendations for quick intake, which allow for some consumption before, and considering how GI intake works, that had been relaxed (see here about rethinking strict fasting)
• Stan himself said that the acid juices are the least important thing, as perhaps just 1g of SN is contraindicated in stomach, and the rest will pass to the intestines.
• Testing salt as a trial was awful, and so many members complained about taste .

So how long would it take us to ingest or how heavy burden is something for the GI tract. A tictac is just 2 calories, will that slow down intestines? I don't think so. I've detailed that in the 'strict fasting' post. Sugars are really fast to digest and a small tiny amount won't slow down digestion. A teaspoon of honey or jam should be 25 calories and that's really little.



You are right about the first.

• What I said was true for sugars, but that is not the case with oil. 1 spoon of coconut oil is 14g of oil and that's a whopping 121 calories, not to mention that fats are harder (slower) on the intestines. That's basically NO for oil. This is why ice cream was pretty much eliminated. @Jumper Geo oil suggestion will definitely slow down SN intake, and could even increase discomfort (ingesting oil while GI in toxic distress). I'm not sure how bad it would be, and I won't say it will cause SN to fail, nor that it is a good practice. I wouldn't do it.
• As for papers that's cellulose which is overall harder for the GI tract. More mechanical breakdown by stomach (churning) and overall more time in big intestines (that's not important for us-- too late). But a rolling paper is such a tiny thing. One Rizla pack is around 1g with 50 papers, so one would weight 0.02g. Would that amount of cellulose slow down digestion? I don't think so.

haha so if I just used Dark Chocolate to mix the SN that would be OK then as it recommended you take a piece of Chocolate after drinking SN with water, go on spoil sport ruin it for everyone, lol anyway the amount of Coconut Oil used is so small, I doubt it would have an effect especially slowing the absorption with all the other meds taken.

Cheers

Geo

 

[Quarky00]

EDIT And the resource guide says not to refrigerate bcuz of moisture!

That is for solid SN, as powder, if kept for years... It will probably be better kept outside in a sealed container for several years than in a refrigerator. So just to help me focus, that is for (a) solid , (b) years.
A solution will indeed last much much less, refrigerated/frozen or not.

It's my understanding that once SN is diluted in water it's potent only for a few hours, maybe 4-6 ?? So it seems to me that diluting it and freezing it would take many hours, thus no longer potent?

If it's really small tiny ice cubes, 0.5cm wide, it will freeze rather quickly, within 30m.

And could not be kept in the freezer for let's say a week or more waiting to be used.

I've given an overview of that in my post here on this thread ("Potency & Storage of Frozen Salts"), where I reconsidered the entire issue. Since there are almost no reactions in freezing, that could be potent for months. As I've written "I suddenly realized that freezing SN is an option" -- that should be challenged by members. (please kindly, don't kill me;)

• I have found that SN rarely reacts, while there are only minute amounts of minerals in tap water and perhaps over time, and those minuscule reactions are even more improbable with freezing.
• It is often mentioned that SN turns to nitrates in processed food or in the sewage or in aquariums, and that is true, but in all cases it has a lot of substances to react with and some UV light (energy required to catalyze some reactions).

* Sorry about the tone, I'm so tired and trying to be concise/focused.. However this is not a "lecture" and I'm not stating hard facts -- I am thinking along the way and presenting just (educated) assumptions , so feel free to join in

 

[Suez]

I'm not an SN expert or scientifically minded so I don't know the chemical reactions but I think this is an easier way to swallow the SN powder and all you need is some Organic Coconut Oil, it will dissolve quickly once swallowed, I don't think you will get any gagging reflex from the salty taste, especially if it's coated in chocolate.

If you are scientifically minded would you mind doing some research and tell me if the SN will be fine to mix with Organic Coconut Oil and if the SN will degrade by being chilled in order to shape them into a bullet. I have been reading all the information I can find and I think it will be fine but i'm not a scientist.

Edit: Not being funny but instead of Coconut Oil you could replace it with Dark Chocolate as you can nuke it and when chilled becomes hard again, the reason they never used it in the video is because she was using it to go up your bum not swallow it.

Step by Step Guide

1, Weigh 30 grams of SN powder
2, Measure 1 table spoon of Organic Coconut Oil
3, Nuke the Organic Coconut Oil for 15 seconds and check may need another 15 seconds
4, Mix in with the SN powder
5, Quick freeze for 5 minutes
6 Remove from the freezer
7, Shape them into 1, 2 or 3 bullets (So Easy To Swallow)
8, Swallow immediately with 50 ML water or refrigerate for later.

Optional

1, Nuke some chocolate for 15 seconds and check may need another 15 seconds
2, Smother SN and Coconut Oil bullet or bullets in Chocolate
3, Quick freeze for 5 minutes
4, YUM, YUM and CTB, lol.




Amazon product ASIN B01M0LGD6A
Nuking Chocolate



Cheers

Geo

 

[Jumper Geo]

I will be running some test soon with Virgin coconut oil and salt plus I will see if I can swap the oil for the dark chocolate I will weigh them as well.

Cheers

Geo

 

[Suez]

Hey there, your thread started with Scientific help needed. While I am an MD, Im also a PhD (Scientist). Ive already made a comment earlier on this matter but i did want to clarify a few things.

This is the premise, as I understand it:
1)That you take approx 30g of Sodium Nitrite (SN) powder and add that to a bowl.
2)Elsewhere you have taken two tablespoons of Cococnut oil and put this in the microwave for a few secs only to melt it.
3)You add the melted Coconut oil to the SN powder, mixing well to make sure all the powder is well distributed throughout the oil.
4)Once they are combined, the bowl is placed in the fridge, only long enough for it to become firm.
5)Once firm, you can then begin to mould into SN bullet shapes.

I realise this is a rather simplistic representation of what you have been talking about and discussing and it also is just one aspect that you have discussed and only one aspect that i am referring to here at this time. For all intents and purposes, it is a good method. The SN powder is not being exposed to extremes of either Heat or Cold. Certainly if you were to put SN powder in either of these situations you would see a change in behaviour. At high temperatures SN is combustable. However, the SN is not going into the microwave, it is the Coconut oil which goes into the microwave and then added to the SN.. The mixture is refrigerated to firm up the solution, which does not take long, 4C also not very cold..Once removed from the fridge, the SN bullets are immediately shaped and once shaped can be consumed. This is not a time consuming process and there is nothing in this process that would in any way alter the characteristics of the SN such that it would suddenly change its behaviour. I think this is a great alternative for people that may not be able to tolerate drinking such a salty solution.

 

[Jumper Geo]

Thanks @Suez for your help and expert knowledge I think it will work fine as well and I will melt some dark chocolate 85% cocoa and then smother the bullet and then another quick 10 minute freeze to harden it and it's ready to swallow, it's not being exposed to freezing temperatures for long periods but I will do a test run with pictures using salt.

This is what I and @C_F where wondering do you think using one large tea spoon of Extra Virgin Coconut Oil will effect the absorption from the fats and acid this is what @Quarky00 said below, it will be really interesting to get a few expert opinions.

• What I said was true for sugars, but that is not the case with oil. 1 spoon of coconut oil is 14g of oil and that's a whopping 121 calories, not to mention that fats are harder (slower) on the intestines. That's basically NO for oil. This is why ice cream was pretty much eliminated. @Jumper Geo oil suggestion will definitely slow down SN intake, and could even increase discomfort (ingesting oil while GI in toxic distress). I'm not sure how bad it would be, and I won't say it will cause SN to fail, nor that it is a good practice. I wouldn't do it.
• As for papers that's cellulose which is overall harder for the GI tract. More mechanical breakdown by stomach (churning) and overall more time in big intestines (that's not important for us-- too late). But a rolling paper is such a tiny thing. One Rizla pack is around 1g with 50 papers, so one would weight 0.02g. Would that amount of cellulose slow down digestion? I don't think so.

It will be a tasty way CTB

Thanks again everyone.

Cheers

Geo

 

[happy?1270]

Nuke? Is that microwave?