Method Proposing a new, easily-accessible method - Propofol (A Theoretical Method of Dying - The Two Drug Combination - Emulating BC's MAiD Protocol)

[Sunset Limited]

Got ya, so 2x 10ml bottles will be 1000mg/20ml and that equates to 20cc, injected say over the course of 30 seconds, it's getting it all in before passing out though.

I am sorry but you have just 10-15 seconds with propofol after start to push plunger of syringe. It is really fast.

 

[HouseofMortok]

I am sorry but you have just 10-15 seconds with propofol after start to push plunger of syringe. It is really fast.

Oh right, I think I'm confused a little due to whatever it was I was reading somewhere said something along the lines of pushing plunger too fast causes problems.

 

[Sunset Limited]

If anyone interesting a thread about propofol method is here.

IV route for N, Thiopental and Propofol

Warning: Using google translate. Since my method is propofol, I read about it for a long time. I decided to do a detailed thread on CTB with propofol, thiopental and N. The method is similar for propofol, thiopental and N for the IV route. First of all, I warn you. This method is a really hard...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[verdedefome]

so Propofol doesn't require much care in terms of storage? safe to get it shipped all the way from Russia without it going "bad"? would be nice to know how it compares to SN, but I guess since this is emulating the MAiD Protocol it's highly preferable in most regards?

 

[sevennn]

If anyone interesting a thread about propofol method is here.

IV route for N, Thiopental and Propofol

Warning: Using google translate. Since my method is propofol, I read about it for a long time. I decided to do a detailed thread on CTB with propofol, thiopental and N. The method is similar for propofol, thiopental and N for the IV route. First of all, I warn you. This method is a really hard...

sanctioned-suicide.net

hi we talked about this method before. so i went to a clinic for a little IV of vitamins, and my veins are super hard to find even for nurses. looks like propofol isnt a method for me, sucks. they poked me in 4 different places and really got in there with a needle, it hurt lol.

 

[Sunset Limited]

hi we talked about this method before. so i went to a clinic for a little IV of vitamins, and my veins are super hard to find even for nurses. looks like propofol isnt a method for me, sucks. they poked me in 4 different places and really got in there with a needle, it hurt lol.

Propofol is not realistic for you sorry.

 

[Dying science gal]

Propofol is not realistic for you sorry.

hi we talked about this method before. so i went to a clinic for a little IV of vitamins, and my veins are super hard to find even for nurses. looks like propofol isnt a method for me, sucks. they poked me in 4 different places and really got in there with a needle, it hurt lol.

Not necessarily. If you have an abundance of cash, you can get an ultrasound machine and do an ultrasound-assisted IV cannulation.

 

[sevennn]

Not necessarily. If you have an abundance of cash, you can get an ultrasound machine and do an ultrasound-assisted IV cannulation.

i mean i guess you could pay someone to put it in for you. i think i could only put it in the back of my palm as that's the only place they did it with ease

 

[EmptyCurtainCall]

Bump! Also i wanted to express my appreciation for this. Wow, you're extremely thoughtful. Dosages, products, resources, and most importantly, the will to help make things easier for others. I admire, and am impressed by, your kindness

 

[sevennn]

ok update i guess. i had another IV at a different place this time and the nurse inserted the needle so easily. she said she just used a very thin one. the one they use for children. so i guess i just have very thin veins that's all. so maybe i can still do this method.

 

[Valhala]

It sounds great, but like everything that's great, it's too complicated to apply and get.

 

[Dena]

I propose a new method based off BC's MAiD process:

Accessible Version
Full details below~

What you need:
1000mg of propofol - You can get this from Russian clearnet pharmacies. It is marketed for the euthanasia for animals. Propofol is generally not a controlled substance, and is widely used for the induction of anesthesia.
10ml of saline for injection - You can get this from your local pharmacy. Just ask.
0.5mg per kg Lidocaine 1% - You can also get this from your local pharmacy. Again, just ask.
IV Catheter (20G) - You can buy this from medical suppliers online.
IV tubing - You can buy this from any medical supply store... Again...
Tegaderm dressing for the IV - Again, purchasable from the pharmacy. Just ask.

Procedure:
Push 10ml of saline to ensure patency of IV catheter
Push lidocaine 0.5mg/kg of 1% preparation to numb the veins as sometimes propofol hurts on injection.
Wait for five minutes.
Administer propofol 1000mg via an IV syringe pump or drip (just stick the end of the iv tubing into the bottle) over 30 seconds — This induces anaesthesia and death. The IV syringe pump or drip is chosen as it will continue the infusion postmortem to ensure sufficient serum concentration.


Full Article
I came by a document titled "Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID) Protocols and Procedures Handbook of the Comox Valley, BC" (Reggler & Daws, 2021) and found interest in this document. It outlines the following protocol for medically assisted suicide by the intravenous route:

1. Saline 10 ml (upon insertion of new cannula or to ensure patency of existing)
2. Midazolam 10-20mg 2-4ml of 5mg/ml preparation
3. Saline 10ml (may be omitted)
4. Lidocaine 40mg 4ml of 1% preparation; pause to allow effect
5. Saline 10ml (may be omitted)
6. Propofol 1000mg 100ml of 10mg/ml preparation; give slowly especially if veins small or patient)
7. Saline 10ml (mandatory; prevents crystallization or Propofol with Rocuronium)
8. Rocuronium 200mg 20ml of 10mg/ml preparation
9. Saline 10ml (mandatory; ensures full dose delivered centrally)

I have decided to investigate the intravenous route as the oral route is extremely uncomfortable and can take up to twelve hours for an individual to die from such ingestion, and a complication rate of up to 14.8%. (pp. 18-19, Worthington, Finlay & Regnard, 2022)
Based on this guideline, I propose the following:

1. Saline 10ml (To ensure patency of IV catheter)
2. The midazolam is excluded as it's primary purpose is to reduce awareness of mild burning sensation, which the lidocaine should be effective at preventing. Ten to seventy percent of patients experience this in the absence of pretreatment. (p. 8, Reggler & Daws, 2021). However, pretreatment with lidocaine at 0.5mg/kg should be sufficient. (Kang et al, 2010)
3. Lidocaine 0.5mg/kg of 1% preparation; (The lidocaine is set to 0.5mg/kg as per Kang et al., 2010)
4. Propofol 1000mg via an IV syringe pump over 30 seconds - This induces anesthesia and death. The IV syringe pump is chosen as it will continue the infusion postmortem to ensure sufficient serum concentration.

Existing case studies suggests the possible use of propofol as a monotherapy in the use of medically asssisted dying, as it's use in physician suicides (primarily anesthesiologists) is widespread. In fact, induction agents are the leading drugs used for suicides among anesthesiologists. (Yentis, Shinde, Plunkett & Mortimore, 2019)

Bibliography:

1. Anna Pia Colucci, Gagliano‐Candela R, Aventaggiato L, et al. Suicide by Self‐Administration of a Drug Mixture (Propofol, Midazolam, and Zolpidem) in an Anesthesiologist: The First Case Report in Italy. Journal of Forensic Sciences. 2013;58(3):837-841. doi:https://doi.org/10.1111/1556-4029.12053

2. Silviya Stoykova, Kiryakova T, Nikolov D, Nedzhib A, Ivayla Pantcheva, Vasil Atanasov. Self-administrated propofol – a case report of a physician suicide. Annales de Toxicologie Analytique. 2018;30(2):142-148. doi:https://doi.org/10.1016/j.toxac.2018.03.002

3. Kirby RR, Colaw JM, Douglas MM. Death from Propofol: Accident, Suicide, or Murder? Anesthesia & Analgesia. 2009;108(4):1182-1184. doi:https://doi.org/10.1213/ane.0b013e318198d45e

4. Reggler J, Daws T. Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID) Protocols and Procedures Handbook Comox Valley, BC 2017.; 2017. https://divisionsbc.ca/sites/default/files/51936/Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID) Protocols and Procedures Handbook Comox Valley 2017 - 2nd edition_0.pdf

5. Yentis, S.M., Shinde, S., Plunkett, E. and Mortimore, A. (2019), Suicide amongst anaesthetists – an Association of Anaesthetists survey. Anaesthesia, 74: 1365-1373. https://doi.org/10.1111/anae.14727

Why not add KCl to all that? It will most definitely indice CA. Propofol is just an anaesthesia agent, all of the above, including induction paralytics like rocuronium are difficult to acquire if you're not a medical professional, let alone to set an infusion pump and rely it will deliver the dose you want even after you're unconscious. Too many things could go wrong in this scenario

 

[Dying science gal]

Why not add KCl to all that? It will most definitely indice CA. Propofol is just an anaesthesia agent, all of the above, including induction paralytics like rocuronium are difficult to acquire if you're not a medical professional, let alone to set an infusion pump and rely it will deliver the dose you want even after you're unconscious. Too many things could go wrong in this scenario

Issue is that you need to push the KCl after the propofol, which you can't do if you're unconscious.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Why not add KCl to all that? It will most definitely indice CA. Propofol is just an anaesthesia agent, all of the above, including induction paralytics like rocuronium are difficult to acquire if you're not a medical professional, let alone to set an infusion pump and rely it will deliver the dose you want even after you're unconscious. Too many things could go wrong in this scenario

We are talking about anestofol actually not medical use propofol. It contains 1000mg propofol and 1000mg lidocaine in 20cc. It is possible to push 20cc into a large vein in less than 10 seconds. No drip infusion or infusion pump is required. The only problem is that even though it contains lidocaine, the injection can still be painful.

 

[Dena]

We are talking about anestofol actually not medical use propofol. It contains 1000mg propofol and 1000mg lidocaine in 20cc. It is possible to push 20cc into a large vein in less than 10 seconds. No drip infusion or infusion pump is required. The only problem is that even though it contains lidocaine, the injection can still be painful.

Believe me, you wouldn't be able to push 5 cc of 1000 mg propofol, let alone 20 cc. Propofol doesn't hurt, it's mildly uncomfortable, do you don't need the lidocaine. The other problem with lidocaine is that it has antiarrhytmic properties so in theory if you were to induce CA via VT or VF, lidocaine could revert it. But in any case, there's no way, and I say this with 100% certainty, you could push 20 cc of 1000 mg propofole and stay conscious untill the end. The easiest way is to put it in a sodium chloride 0.9% solution, let it drip, and cinnect another iv line with KCl in another hand, without lidocaine and go into the abyss. KCl is a way to go exit, propofol is to help you fall asleep.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Believe me, you wouldn't be able to push 5 cc of 1000 mg propofol, let alone 20 cc. Propofol doesn't hurt, it's mildly uncomfortable, do you don't need the lidocaine. The other problem with lidocaine is that it has antiarrhytmic properties so in theory if you were to induce CA via VT or VF, lidocaine could revert it. But in any case, there's no way, and I say this with 100% certainty, you could push 20 cc of 1000 mg propofole and stay conscious untill the end. The easiest way is to put it in a sodium chloride 0.9% solution, let it drip, and cinnect another iv line with KCl in another hand, without lidocaine and go into the abyss. KCl is a way to go exit, propofol is to help you fall asleep.

Sorry but tons of wrongs here.

"Believe me, you wouldn't be able to push 5 cc of 1000 mg propofol, let alone 20 cc. Propofol doesn't hurt, it's mildly uncomfortable"

1- Propofol is a phenolic molecule and like all phenolic molecules it is an irritant to blood vessels. So, propofol itself is an irritant but not only that. Propofol is insoluble in water but it is soluble in oil. So they dissolve it in soybean oil. These oil chains are also irritants to blood vessels. That is why propofol injections are usually mild to moderately painful. Braun developed Propofol Lipuro for this problem. It is made with a shorter oil chain.

We are talking about the 1% formula, which is only medical-use propofol. If you try to inject the 5% formula Anestofol with a rapid bolus, it will probably burn like hell, despite the lidocaine in it. Because the lidocaine needs time to work.

2- The onset of action of propofol is one arm brain circulation. That's no less than 10 seconds. You can push 25cc of fluid through a large vein in 10 seconds. So you have enough time.




" The other problem with lidocaine is that it has antiarrhytmic properties so in theory if you were to induce CA via VT or VF lidocaine could revert it."

Propofol does not induce VT or VF at high doses with especially rapid boluses. Vf an vt with propofol is really rare. It particularly depresses the left ventricle. Propofol anesthesia induction dose very rarely causes cardiovascular collapse. I read a case report about this. A patient who was being prepared for intubation was given 300 mg propofol instead of 150 mg due to a misunderstanding. Despite being intubated and receiving inotropic support, the patient could not be resuscitated. The cause of death was cardiovascular collapse. Propofol is a strong negative inotropic. This is what is aimed at with Anestofol, lidocaine is a support as a negative inotrpic. It is an approved euthanasia agent. Propofol causes profound hypotension and cardiovascular collapse at doses above the anesthesia induction dose. Especially rapid boluses! There is no one on the planet who can survive with 1000 mg propofol + 1000 mg lidocaine.In cases of suicide with propofol, the plasma concentration of propofol is within the therapeutic range. they were healthcare professionals and the dose they injected was just an anesthesia induction dose. You should read about cases of suicide with propofol. Most of them were healthcare professionals. When they died, the plasma concentration of propofol was not even 1mcg/ml. This figure is not even one-sixth of the target plasma concentration for induction of anesthesia. This means they used less than 400 milligrams of propofol.

In fact, the dose in Canada's euthanasia protocol is 1000 mg propofol, and this dose is usually enought to death. They still use rocuronium as a guarantee. I am leaving below the pharmacokinetic simulation graph for a 3 minute infusion of 1500 mg propofol. This graph is for a 100 kg person. The results would be more dramatic for a 70 kg person. The plasma concentration will probably not fall below 20 mcg/ml before 7-8 minutes as a result of a rapid bolus of 1000 mg propofol. This is enough to inhibit respiration for 0% desaturation.






"But in any case, there's no way, and I say this with 100% certainty, you could push 20 cc of 1000 mg propofole and stay conscious untill the end."

This is not true. You can push 20cc of fluid from a large vein near the antecubital fossa with a 22g cannula before 10 seconds. It doesn't matter what you push. Propofol or something else... In fact, arm-brain circulation time is required to reach the effect site. This is not less than 10 seconds. If necessary, negative inotropic can be used to reduce cardiac output before injection.




"The easiest way is to put it in a sodium chloride 0.9% solution, let it drip, and cinnect another iv line with KCl in another hand, without lidocaine and go into the abyss. KCl is a way to go exit, propofol is to help you fall asleep."

KCL is not in the equation and there is no valid reason for it to be. Anestofol is already an approved euthanasia drug as a single agent.

I don't use drip infusion because it is unreliable. So I made my own injection system.

You can trust me I am well informed about propofol's mechanism of action.