Pro-life

[motel rooms]

Yes, I do beleive that most of those people could be helped, in other words that they are not truly hopeless, if we could get them the help that they deserve.

I am unemployable with no hope of income due to my health problems. This is the major reason I am considering CTB, to not die starving on the street.

I am genuinely sorry it's likely that you, a citizen of one of the richest countries in the world, are going to be forced to kill yourself because you don't want to end up starving on the street. That is beyond obscene. How will you not deserve to be considered truly hopeless if your situation drives you to ctb just because you theoretically could have been helped? That's like saying that Yemeni children starving to death at this very moment are not truly hopeless just because they could have received help

 

[9BBN]

I do think we should have less limits on this than we do currently, but I don't think it should be completely unrestricted. A fully pro choice viewpoint would lead to situations like children getting euthanasia because their toys were taken away. So you support it then only for people that are over 18?

I want to quickly shoot away a misconception here. "A fully pro choice viewpoint would lead to situations like children getting euthanasia because their toys were taken away." Let's examine that.

It's true a fully pro choice viewpoint supports the right to die with dignity for any reason. Again, if life is a right, so is death.

However, a part I think you're missing is that a fully pro choice viewpoint specifically supports an informed, non-impulsive decision. You will see this in many of the replies above, but it's easy to miss, because people often say "decision" when they mean "informed decision." Ultimately, a choice is only a fair choice if it's fully informed. Likewise, autonomy isn't being respected if the decision is not informed. I think the most accurate way to describe "pro-choice" is "pro-autonomy." Under this framework, pro-life is understood as valuing life over autonomy: for example, restricting abortions, euthanasia, etc.

Briefly, reasons to value autonomy over "right to life":
1. If there is a right to life, there is a right to death. The opposition has a symmetric argument.
2. It is not possible to prove that life is universally inherently good, because, in fact, it is not. And if your religion says otherwise, well, we have freedom of religion (or at least, we ought to).
3. Autonomy is universally good. In more complex situations, the autonomy of the individual can be put in check if it puts the autonomy of others at risk. For example, keeping criminals in jail. Likewise it would not be ethical for a captain of a ship to suicide, if the captain knows the other willing passengers cannot sail.

So no, I don't support children getting euthanasia because their toys were taken away if it's clear that these children do not understand the magnitude of their decision and their alternatives. I'm also not opposed to an age requirement, because informed consent in principle can have an age limit requiring proper cognition. Better than an age requirement, though, would be some sort of awareness test, because age is just a proxy.

 

[Lmd]

I'm a pro-lifer. This pro-choice thing have no sense to me. I would support that if it were an actual choice and not something derivated from suffering. If you have no solution to these problems that keep you so distressed and prevent you from having a life that you can accept or enjoy then you aren't choosing anything. Your circumstances and lack of options are the ones choosing. I don't know why are people talking about it like it's something trascendental when the whole forum talks about pain and suffering. I'm sure that the percentage of people who chooses death as a real option and not as an escape to a life full of pain that they cannot bear is quite small.

Saying that, I'm not gonna come with a magic wand solving everyone's problems and I understand that there are things without a current solution so I'm not gonna stop any decision. After all, I'm in the same boat and I know how hard is to make the final steps. It's just stupid to stop someone from doing it if you are not gonna make a real impact in their lifes to help them. But one thing is accepting it as an useless individual and something totally different is wanting or hoping a whole system supported by the goverment that allows you to die easily instead of invest in solutions to the problems that aren't allowing you to have a bearable life. If the two things are not going to go hand in hand then it's something really cruel to ask.

I've been through the suicide of 3 persons that I love in the last few years and their deaths could be evitable but without any type of support it's impossible. I have depressed friends too that are trying to give life a shot time to time but with how things are right now it's normal that they are in this situation. But if I have to ask to someone that can actually make a change I prefer to ask for real solutions (better quality of life, acceptance of human rights, more research on diseases, whatever it is) instead of a big fuck your life comming in a nembutal bottle. Sadly the world has too many problems to be solved that easy.

 

[Amumu]

I'm a pro-lifer.

No, you're not. Some people have lived for decades suffering unbearable pain and they haven't had the choice to end it until they discovered SS.
The choice exists indeed even if it's deeply influenced by external factors as you say.

Saying that, I'm not gonna come with a magic wand solving everyone's problems and I understand that there are things without a current solution so I'm not gonna stop any decision.

Decision means more and less a choice, the choice is still here. You're not a pro-lifer again.

But if I have to ask to someone that can actually make a change I prefer to ask for real solutions (better quality of life, acceptance of human rights, more research on diseases, whatever it is)

And that's the issue "whatever it is". What is it? Some people have an incredible faith in progress I can't understand.
The rate of suicide hasn't changed lot since the birth of mankind, it is only influenced by religious beliefs.

 

[Lmd]

No, you're not. Some people have lived for decades suffering unbearable pain and they haven't had the choice to end it until they discovered SS.
The choice exists indeed even if it's deeply influenced by external factors as you say.

Decision means more and less a choice, the choice is still here. You're not a pro-lifer again.

I mean, of course can be called a choice but some people talk about it like going to the supermarket and buy another brand of chocolate. If you are in your bed looking for your options and the conclusion is stay in a bad state that you seem very hard or impossible to improve or looking for a way to CTB that suits you then yes, it's a choice, but you can't deny that they don't have the same weight on a scale. And please I'm not saying that CTB is something easy because it isn't, even with the painless method in your face.

And that's the issue "whatever it is". What is it? Some people have an incredible faith in progress I can't understand.
The rate of suicide hasn't changed lot since the birth of mankind, it is only influenced by religious beliefs.

I can't specify because there are many reasons to do so and they'll never end. My problem here is this:

But one thing is accepting it as an useless individual and something totally different is wanting or hoping a whole system supported by the goverment that allows you to die easily instead of invest in solutions to the problems that aren't allowing you to have a bearable life. If the two things are not going to go hand in hand then it's something really cruel to ask.

When people talk about this topic they never say anything about working on current problems to solve them. They just want a painless solution to just end their suffering. Totally understandable because, once again, things wont solve in matter of days.

And of course I have faith in progress. I live in a house with a lot of comforts because a bunch of people cared about it. I don't have to worry about the heat or lacking of water because someone invested their time to make it possible. I can marry whatever I want where I live because someone cared for it. I had some health problems in the past and I could solve them because someone invested their time an researched about it. I don't see where's the problem in wanting to keep investing and research so actual problems can be solved in the future.

 

[9BBN]

I'm a pro-lifer. This pro-choice thing have no sense to me. I would support that if it were an actual choice and not something derivated from suffering. If you have no solution to these problems that keep you so distressed and prevent you from having a life that you can accept or enjoy then you aren't choosing anything. Your circumstances and lack of options are the ones choosing. I don't know why are people talking about it like it's something trascendental when the whole forum talks about pain and suffering. I'm sure that the percentage of people who chooses death as a real option and not as an escape to a life full of pain that they cannot bear is quite small.

Saying that, I'm not gonna come with a magic wand solving everyone's problems and I understand that there are things without a current solution so I'm not gonna stop any decision. After all, I'm in the same boat and I know how hard is to make the final steps. It's just stupid to stop someone from doing it if you are not gonna make a real impact in their lifes to help them. But one thing is accepting it as an useless individual and something totally different is wanting or hoping a whole system supported by the goverment that allows you to die easily instead of invest in solutions to the problems that aren't allowing you to have a bearable life. If the two things are not going to go hand in hand then it's something really cruel to ask.

I've been through the suicide of 3 persons that I love in the last few years and their deaths could be evitable but without any type of support it's impossible. I have depressed friends too that are trying to give life a shot time to time but with how things are right now it's normal that they are in this situation. But if I have to ask to someone that can actually make a change I prefer to ask for real solutions (better quality of life, acceptance of human rights, more research on diseases, whatever it is) instead of a big fuck your life comming in a nembutal bottle. Sadly the world has too many problems to be solved that easy.

I want to briefly respond to this: "I'm a pro-lifer... if I have to ask to someone that can actually make a change I prefer to ask for real solutions (better quality of life, acceptance of human rights, more research on diseases, whatever it is) instead of a big fuck your life comming in a nembutal bottle."

The pro-choice position is not pro-death and we don't encourage suicide; we only advocate for our right to suicide as an option. We also would rather see systemic changes be implemented to help the vulnerable rather than have the vulnerable be euthanized. Because the vulnerable were never given a fair life, and these systemic changes would make the world a better place for future generations. So that's not a pro-life position, it's something we all agree on, except maybe some extreme promortalists.

I strongly recommend you reconsider your position, and make sure you understand both sides. I noticed you wrote "This pro-choice thing have no sense to me," which is indicative that your self-identification as a pro-lifer was not fully informed.

"I don't know why people are talking about it like it's something trascentental" --> See this part of my earlier post for why we view the right to die with dignity as something "transcendental:"

I think the most accurate way to describe "pro-choice" is "pro-autonomy." Under this framework, pro-life is understood as valuing life over autonomy: for example, restricting abortions, euthanasia, etc.

Briefly, reasons to value autonomy over "right to life":
1. If there is a right to life, there is a right to death. The opposition has a symmetric argument.
2. It is not possible to prove that life is universally inherently good, because, in fact, it is not. And if your religion says otherwise, well, we have freedom of religion (or at least, we ought to).
3. Autonomy is universally good. In more complex situations, the autonomy of the individual can be put in check if it puts the autonomy of others at risk. For example, keeping criminals in jail. Likewise it would not be ethical for a captain of a ship to suicide, if the captain knows the other willing passengers cannot sail.

I mean, of course can be called a choice but some people talk about it like going to the supermarket and buy another brand of chocolate.

No. A more accurate analogy is: certain retailers are not allowed to withhold nembutal from customers. We only advocate for suicide to be an option, and we want people to make fully informed and non-impulsive decisions. We don't recommend buying N like it's chocolate, and we also don't want it to be marketed like it's chocolate. Please make sure you understand the position you're against before you take a stand.

 

[Sisyphus]

I want to briefly respond to this: "I'm a pro-lifer... if I have to ask to someone that can actually make a change I prefer to ask for real solutions (better quality of life, acceptance of human rights, more research on diseases, whatever it is) instead of a big fuck your life comming in a nembutal bottle."

The pro-choice position is not pro-death and we don't encourage suicide; we only advocate for our right to suicide as an option. We also would rather see systemic changes be implemented to help the vulnerable rather than have the vulnerable be euthanized. Because the vulnerable were never given a fair life, and these systemic changes would make the world a better place for future generations. So that's not a pro-life position, it's something we all agree on, except maybe some extreme promortalists.

I strongly recommend you reconsider your position, and make sure you understand both sides. I noticed you wrote "This pro-choice thing have no sense to me," which is indicative that your self-identification as a pro-lifer was not fully informed.

"I don't know why people are talking about it like it's something trascentental" --> See this part of my earlier post for why we view the right to die with dignity as something "transcendental:"



No. A more accurate analogy is: certain retailers are not allowed to withhold nembutal from customers. We only advocate for suicide to be an option, and we want people to make fully informed and non-impulsive decisions. We don't recommend buying N like it's chocolate, and we also don't want it to be marketed like it's chocolate. Please make sure you understand the position you're against before you take a stand.

This is not the way the pro choice position was being represented in this thread to me. It was explained to me that if anybody wanted to CTB under any circumstances and for any reason, provided it was their momentary choice, then they should be able.

This is why I made the paper cut example, and the child losing his toys example, and questioned N being available on every corner: to show the absurdity of a completely unregulated free choice environment when it come to suicide. I think it's obvious that some people here don't really understand the nuances of the actual pro choice point of view, i think it is probably being misrepresented, and we need somebody smart and lawyerly to come in and put some sophistication, nuance, and specificity to this viewpoint.

Maybe we should have a statement of the actual the pro choice view somewhere. Maybe it is already available on this site and I don't know because I am new here and still learning.

 

[motel rooms]

Maybe we should have a statement of the actual the pro choice view somewhere. Maybe it is already available on this site and I don't know because I am new here and still learning.

Does such a thing exist, @9BBN ? A pro-choice manifesto? Because I'm pretty sure most people on here would find you too conservative

 

[Sisyphus]

I am genuinely sorry it's likely that you, a citizen of one of the richest countries in the world, are going to be forced to kill yourself because you don't want to end up starving on the street. That is beyond obscene. How will you not deserve to be considered truly hopeless if your situation drives you to ctb just because you theoretically could have been helped? That's like saying that Yemeni children starving to death at this very moment are not truly hopeless just because they could have received help

It's pretty bad. The fact that I even have to worry about this is beyond belief. This is part of the reason I don't like this country or the people in it. We will see if I am truly hopeless, but at this point I have a little bit of hope for the future. I do see your point, but maybe j am not hopeless and it is just my perception.

 

[9BBN]

Does such a thing exist, @9BBN ? A pro-choice manifesto? Because I'm pretty sure most people on here would find you too conservative

I'm curious what makes you call me conservative? I'm used to being called liberal. My pro-choice position is that the right to die with dignity is a fundamental human right, regardless of justification. My only concession is that it requires informed consent when informed consent is possible. For example, informed consent is not possible in infants, patients with certain "mental illnesses", and non-human animals. In these cases, when informed consent is impossible, voluntary euthanasia is allowed. For example, if a mother volunteers abortion, a pet owner volunteers pet euthanasia, or a "mentally ill" patient volunteers suicide.

Nobody talks about informed consent because it is usually implied. To support uninformed suicide (when informed consent is possible) is to be disrespecting autonomy, which is hypocritical.

To encourage suicide is to be pro-mortalist. Pro-choice is not to encourage either way. I can only guess this is where I fall conservative to you? Respectfully, I don't encourage suicide.

I would be very interested in drafting a manifesto with others here. The current SS definition is this:

Pro-choice means that we do not encourage you to do anything. We support your right to live your life to the fullest, as well as your right to end your life, should that be what you genuinely desire.

But I don't think it implies support of uninformed suicide by babies losing toys just because it leaves out the word "informed." Pro-choice is rooted in autonomy over life. If it's not informed, it's not a choice, and it's not autonomy.

This is not the way the pro choice position was being represented in this thread to me. It was explained to me that if anybody wanted to CTB under any circumstances and for any reason, provided it was their momentary choice, then they should be able.

This is why I made the paper cut example, and the child losing his toys example, and questioned N being available on every corner: to show the absurdity of a completely unregulated free choice environment when it come to suicide. I think it's obvious that some people here don't really understand the nuances of the actual pro choice point of view, i think it is probably being misrepresented, and we need somebody smart and lawyerly to come in and put some sophistication, nuance, and specificity to this viewpoint.

Maybe we should have a statement of the actual the pro choice view somewhere. Maybe it is already available on this site and I don't know because I am new here and still learning.

I understand where you're coming from, and that's why I wanted to clarify. When people say "decision" they usually mean "informed decision." That is a crucial distinction. Pro-choice is fundamentally about autonomy, which requires informed consent. Nobody here has said they believe uninformed suicide is justified. To believe that is to disrespect autonomy. Again, we are only fighting for suicide to be an option. We all agree choices should be informed.

 

[Sisyphus]

I'm curious what makes you call me conservative? I'm used to being called liberal. My pro-choice position is that the right to die with dignity is a fundamental human right, regardless of justification. My only concession is that it requires informed consent when informed consent is possible. For example, informed consent is not possible in infants, patients with certain "mental illnesses", and non-human animals. In these cases, when informed consent is impossible, voluntary euthanasia is allowed. For example, if a mother volunteers abortion, a pet owner volunteers pet euthanasia, or a "mentally ill" patient volunteers suicide.

Nobody talks about informed consent because it is usually implied. To support uninformed suicide (when informed consent is possible) is to be disrespecting autonomy, which is hypocritical.

To encourage suicide is to be pro-mortalist. Pro-choice is not to encourage either way. I can only guess this is where I fall conservative to you? Respectfully, I don't encourage suicide.

I would be very interested in drafting a manifesto with others here. The current SS definition is this:

Pro-choice means that we do not encourage you to do anything. We support your right to live your life to the fullest, as well as your right to end your life, should that be what you genuinely desire.

But I don't think it implies support of uninformed suicide by babies losing toys just because it leaves out the word "informed." Pro-choice is rooted in autonomy over life. If it's not informed, it's not a choice, and it's not autonomy.


I understand where you're coming from, and that's why I wanted to clarify. When people say "decision" they usually mean "informed decision." That is a crucial distinction. Pro-choice is fundamentally about autonomy, which requires informed consent. Nobody here has said they believe uninformed suicide is justified. To believe that is to disrespect autonomy. Again, we are only fighting for suicide to be an option. We all agree choices should be informed.

The problem is that informed consent is not implied by some people here, and it is not accepted by them either. They will accept no limitations on their choice, and that is why they are calling you conservative.

 

[9BBN]

The problem is that informed consent is not implied by some people here, and it is not accepted by them either. They will accept no limitations on their choice, and that is why they are calling you conservative.

Really? Plenty of us are implying informed consent. Persephone says it explicitly here on page 1 but it implies it in her later posts:

I am not pro-death, but I am absolutely pro-choice. It is about not imposing life or encouraging death, but giving people options, affording them an informed choice and respecting their autonomy whether they choose to live or die.

Like I said, it's easy to miss, but it's a crucial distinction. That post was the most-liked post of this whole thread.

Without informed consent, it's not a choice, so it's not pro-choice. Can you give an example of someone here who supports uninformed suicide as a pro-choice position?

Informed consent is only not required when informed consent is impossible. This is what allows abortions, pet euthanasia, etc. Likewise we argue voluntary euthanasia be extended to "mentally ill" patients who "can't give informed consent".

 

[Pure]

Given that nobody knows conclusively for sure what happens after death, I do think in current conditions pro life is better than pro choice.

An ideal situation is if the world stopped being an hypercapitalist shithole and people had fundamental access to things we need to be happy. On demand euthanasia now just means that normal working people are just more likely to off themselves while the goons that make the world miserable just keep living with no worries. Jeff Bezos can blast off to space while he keeps his slaves working in inhuman conditions in his factories. That's why J@ckie Bi3ber's daughter killed herself. First post she made: "I hate being a slave". She was working at Amazon. Her mother would do infinitely more good to society by becoming a unionist and campaigning for better working conditions but nahhh shutting down SS is easier. Instead of working to make life happy for everyone, oh just go to walmart to get N. Maybe in an ideal utopia where everyone is on equal ground, yes, but now I disagree.

That being said, I still believe that suicide should be decriminalized ie nobody can force you to be hospitalized or reported if you want to die.

 

[angelus]

Pro Lifers are the one's who are out to take down this forum, those who don't understand two sides to every good, that there is a bad, these people think people in a suicidal situation should just smile and get over it, because to them life is worth living despite intense trauma, pain etc.
Pro Lifers isn't a term thrown around loosely, but it is used to speak of those who are so anti suicide and refuse to understand the other side. for those who believe forums like this, which has a recovery section, shouldn't exsist, yet this forum can be and is a life saver at times.

I do believe everyone is pro life in a way, and many here do try and recover, but many are unable too for whatever their reason is, and that is when CTB comes into play.

Very well said. And Pro-lifers, when it comes to those who have no chance of recovery, by taking down such places, are taking the access to info about the best humane methods. In other words, taking down the access to places like this, renders others to die by inhumane methods. Because lack of access/info, cannot change their mind if they have taken a decision.

You hear countless stories of people who CTB impulsively. For instance, this person broke up with their boyfriend, so they cut their wrist. Another person got a bad grade on a test, or didn't get into the school they wanted to, so they swallow some pills. I'm not trying to minimize their pain, but you can see these kind of people are not truly hopeless.

You may retort, "Who am I to judge another person's subjective experience, to impose my views on their situation, and to determine that their problem is not "worthy" to be considered a legitimate reason for suicide." I see where you are coming from, but I would like to see people like those who I have mentioned continue to live on and recover from their tragedy.



I think the key to this is that in life the good is supposed to outweigh the bad. I don't think it has been that way for me necessarily, but that is at least a theory.

The good is always outweighted by bad in life. You live 1 good thing, and you pay it with 10 bad things. This is the rule of life. Rationally, life is never worth living.

 

[checkouttime]

These thoughts seem to be destined to create a division between people, a separation. Everybody is an island unto himself, and your thoughts are only your own. Nobody cares.

I beleive exactly in the opposite, a conected point of view. In actuality, everything you do is interconnected to the rest of the world and you are not separate in any way. Any perceived separation in your life is only because of the mind's habit of conceptualizing the world. My philosophy would be shared by some people and it would be reviled by others, but it would alway be impactful in some way because of a connectedness.

I think it's cruel to mock people that are already suffering. Ultimately, I think it is a lack of understanding on their part that causes pro life people to butt into the affairs of suicidal people. If your life has been great, then you can only imagine a suicidal person must be stupid or deluded. I think everybody suffers from this lack of understanding though, myself included.

not being funny but even a mentally ill person isn't going to want to listen to what groups of people who set up pages on FB and twitter say. There's proof on the forum of them openly rejoicing and hoping someone is suffering. they even invited a nonce into their group. he was banned from here and doxxed a member and that member also CTB..........I mean take a minute to read that and its all true and the evidence is in the forum, do them type of people sound like people you want help from??? what they are are people that are after revenge because there sons/daughters are dead and were possibly a member of this site. they blame us because they are shit parents....no1 forced their kids to join they did that all by themselves and searched out the information themselves aswell,. its not like this site just pops up on google, you have to look for it.

i think this post by disabledlife would be more openly excepted

On the other hand, if we leave the choice to the desperate or suffering person and we try to help him, without putting pressure or stress on him, there is a good chance of convincing him to change his mind in such a way. temporary or permanent.

who the fuck wants to listen to a load of dickheads that want to get likes and look good to their mates on twitter and FB. the only expertise they have is a dead relative that doesn't make them an expert in mental health or other illnesses , i think i'd stick to listening to trained medical staff myself if i wanted help rather than these morons, people who try to lie, cheat and manipulate people. I mean really what type of people do that.

you know what they shouldn't actually be called pro lifers them type, as they really aren't helpful at all. they promote death if anything, they certainly have a habit of causing it there experts i that for sure, i've seen the threads myself proving it

 

[motel rooms]

I'm curious what makes you call me conservative? I'm used to being called liberal. My pro-choice position is that the right to die with dignity is a fundamental human right, regardless of justification. My only concession is that it requires informed consent when informed consent is possible. For example, informed consent is not possible in infants, patients with certain "mental illnesses", and non-human animals. In these cases, when informed consent is impossible, voluntary euthanasia is allowed. For example, if a mother volunteers abortion, a pet owner volunteers pet euthanasia, or a "mentally ill" patient volunteers suicide.

You struck me as conservative for a pro-choice person because I was under the impression that you weren't in favor of "mentally ill" patients volunteering suicide

 

[angelus]

not being funny but even a mentally ill person isn't going to want to listen to what groups of people who set up pages on FB and twitter say. There's proof on the forum of them openly rejoicing and hoping someone is suffering. they even invited a nonce into their group. he was banned from here and doxxed a member and that member also CTB..........I mean take a minute to read that and its all true and the evidence is in the forum, do them type of people sound like people you want help from??? what they are are people that are after revenge because there sons/daughters are dead and were possibly a member of this site. they blame us because they are shit parents....no1 forced their kids to join they did that all by themselves and searched out the information themselves aswell,. its not like this site just pops up on google, you have to look for it.

i think this post by disabledlife would be more openly excepted

On the other hand, if we leave the choice to the desperate or suffering person and we try to help him, without putting pressure or stress on him, there is a good chance of convincing him to change his mind in such a way. temporary or permanent.

who the fuck wants to listen to a load of dickheads that want to get likes and look good to their mates on twitter and FB. the only expertise they have is a dead relative that doesn't make them an expert in mental health or other illnesses , i think i'd stick to listening to trained medical staff myself if i wanted help rather than these morons, people who try to lie, cheat and manipulate people. I mean really what type of people do that.

you know what they shouldn't actually be called pro lifers them type, as they really aren't helpful at all. they promote death if anything, they certainly have a habit of causing it there experts i that for sure, i've seen the threads myself proving it

How did you first found this forum? I'm just curious how different people found it. I personally found its name on a news website. But it was very hard. All news sites don't name such places. I searched for such a place for nearly two years and found nothing, but hundreds of helplines and therapy crap. Sites like this, never pop-up. So let's say if SS will not exist in 10 years from now, or 20 years, how could someone find it/such sites?

 

[Pure]

not being funny but even a mentally ill person isn't going to want to listen to what groups of people who set up pages on FB and twitter say. There's proof on the forum of them openly rejoicing and hoping someone is suffering. they even invited a nonce into their group. he was banned from here and doxxed a member and that member also CTB..........I mean take a minute to read that and its all true and the evidence is in the forum, do them type of people sound like people you want help from??? what they are are people that are after revenge because there sons/daughters are dead and were possibly a member of this site. they blame us because they are shit parents....no1 forced their kids to join they did that all by themselves and searched out the information themselves aswell,. its not like this site just pops up on google, you have to look for it.

i think this post by disabledlife would be more openly excepted

On the other hand, if we leave the choice to the desperate or suffering person and we try to help him, without putting pressure or stress on him, there is a good chance of convincing him to change his mind in such a way. temporary or permanent.

who the fuck wants to listen to a load of dickheads that want to get likes and look good to their mates on twitter and FB. the only expertise they have is a dead relative that doesn't make them an expert in mental health or other illnesses , i think i'd stick to listening to trained medical staff myself if i wanted help rather than these morons, people who try to lie, cheat and manipulate people. I mean really what type of people do that.

you know what they shouldn't actually be called pro lifers them type, as they really aren't helpful at all. they promote death if anything, they certainly have a habit of causing it there experts i that for sure, i've seen the threads myself proving it

Yeah these people are not "pro life" by any means. Just pro taking out their anger and even at times more pro death than anyone on SS. It's strange, they regularly ask why certain users (including Marquis) haven't killed themselves...even I know that suicidality is transient and anyone can be suicidal for a long time but it doesn't mean that you have to kill yourself or that you can't change your mind at any time. They want users on here to kill themselves otherwise we're all just predators or something.

All of the big names in the movement had kids who were 18+ but the crux of their movement is focusing on imaginary minors openly stating their age and being active on the forum. It's almost like they know deep down that no rational adult will find this forum to be illegal (maybe immoral) to shut it down so they have to depend entirely on fantastical arguments to get people to agree to them.

How did you first found this forum? I'm just curious how different people found it. I personally found its name on a news website. But it was very hard. All news sites don't name such places. I searched for such a place for nearly two years and found nothing, but hundreds of helplines and therapy crap. Sites like this, never pop-up. So let's say if SS will not exist in 10 years from now, or 20 years, how could someone find it/such sites?

I was on the original subreddit. I never knew a website was created until I googled sanctioned suicide in June. That being said, this forum is very difficult to find now if you don't know its name. As a test, I tried googling extensively to see if I could find it without typing the name. It took a while, and that's even knowing what to look for and the specific phrases. Someone has to be deeply suicidal already to find this page.

 

[angelus]

Yeah these people are not "pro life" by any means. Just pro taking out their anger and even at times more pro death than anyone on SS. It's strange, they regularly ask why certain users (including Marquis) haven't killed themselves...even I know that suicidality is transient and anyone can be suicidal for a long time but it doesn't mean that you have to kill yourself or that you can't change your mind at any time. They want users on here to kill themselves otherwise we're all just predators or something.

All of the big names in the movement had kids who were 18+ but the crux of their movement is focusing on imaginary minors openly stating their age and being active on the forum. It's almost like they know deep down that no rational adult will find this forum to be illegal (maybe immoral) to shut it down so they have to depend entirely on fantastical arguments to get people to agree to them.


I was on the original subreddit. I never knew a website was created until I googled sanctioned suicide in June. That being said, this forum is very difficult to find now if you don't know its name. As a test, I tried googling extensively to see if I could find it without typing the name. It took a while, and that's even knowing what to look for and the specific phrases. Someone has to be deeply suicidal already to find this page.

Yes, indeed. I tried too to google it by its name, to see if i can find it, and I couldn't. I had to type exactly "sanctioned-suicide.net". Simply "sanctioned suicide" or "suicide forum" doesn't work. But if this would be shut down one day (I knock on wood not to), what are we going to do? It could be created again, but if under other name, how to get it?
Edit: Is there a way to search with tor and find results that are not available on google?

 

[Sisyphus]

Really? Plenty of us are implying informed consent. Persephone says it explicitly here on page 1 but it implies it in her later posts:

Like I said, it's easy to miss, but it's a crucial distinction. That post was the most-liked post of this whole thread.

Without informed consent, it's not a choice, so it's not pro-choice. Can you give an example of someone here who supports uninformed suicide as a pro-choice position?

Informed consent is only not required when informed consent is impossible. This is what allows abortions, pet euthanasia, etc. Likewise we argue voluntary euthanasia be extended to "mentally ill" patients who "can't give informed consent".

I see what you mean now and maybe I was wrong about people not wanting informed consent.

 

[checkouttime]

How did you first found this forum? I'm just curious how different people found it. I personally found its name on a news website. But it was very hard. All news sites don't name such places. I searched for such a place for nearly two years and found nothing, but hundreds of helplines and therapy crap. Sites like this, never pop-up. So let's say if SS will not exist in 10 years from now, or 20 years, how could someone find it/such sites?

I can't remember properly. i think i was searching something and saw it mentioned and then searched for it. It didn''t just pop up i had to look to find it, i made the decision to do the just like other members., no1 forced me to join

In regards to the 'site not available' in 10 years i found this info in the rules and info

Will the site ever close? Should I worry?
Our website does not aid or encourage suicide, and all information provided is for educational purposes only. We only offer a place to discuss the topic of suicide; in other words, we provide a free speech platform for those that can't speak about suicide anywhere else. We have taken precautions to avoid issues that could arise, but regardless, there might be days where the forum is in the public eye. At those times, please don't panic. Suicide is a taboo topic, and thus, we must not succumb to any paranoia or fear. Help us keep the peace during these times by calming other users and not creating panic by making threads about it. Downtime may happen at times due to maintenance, upgrades, or feature changes, if there's anything that you should know, we'll make a thread about it and pin it. In short, the site is not illegal.

also i imagine it would be very easy to just go on the dark web if need be, but they obviously don't need to. I imagine there are all sorts of sites on the dark web, i haven't ever looked myself

 

[Sisyphus]

Yes, indeed. I tried too to google it by its name, to see if i can find it, and I couldn't. I had to type exactly "sanctioned-suicide.net". Simply "sanctioned suicide" or "suicide forum" doesn't work. But if this would be shut down one day (I knock on wood not to), what are we going to do? It could be created again, but if under other name, how to get it?
Edit: Is there a way to search with tor and find results that are not available on google?

I had a hard time finding it myself. I found a lot of articles that mentioned suicide forums where all of these people were getting info, but nobody wanted to mention the name. By chance after searching for hours I came on an article condemning suicide forums that happened to be posted here. That's how I found the place.

 

[SuicidalAgain]

How did you first found this forum?

There's this plant that is literally everywhere in my area, because it's very resilient and beautiful, it's called Oleander and it's poisonous. People have died by eating food roasted on it's sticks in campfires, so I thought I could go get some and make a smoothie out of its leaves and flowers My research made me a bit scared of doing it that way, but then I found way better methods, and in my search I found a news site that mentioned SS, so I googled it and found it.

It's strange, they regularly ask why certain users (including Marquis) haven't killed themselves...even I know that suicidality is transient and anyone can be suicidal for a long time but it doesn't mean that you have to kill yourself or that you can't change your mind at any time. They want users on here to kill themselves otherwise we're all just predators or something.

Normies always think it's not true because if we want to die so badly, why don't we do it already? They fail to understand that this is a feeling that can increase and decrease in intensity and at it's worst it is what makes people try to ctb. It's not like we suddenly wake up, want to kill ourselves and proceed to doing so. The double standard of suicidal ideation vs suceeded suicidal attempt is also really ridiculous, why would people ask why someone who killed themselves didn't ask for help, when you simply didn't hear their pleas or ignored the signs?

 

[Pure]

In short, the site is not illegal.

To specify, it's not illegal in the United States. Other countries, it's iffy lol. I regularly Google News articles on SS and it seems that the Italian courts have determined that it /is/ illegal for them that charges are drawn up (would be) if they managed to find the identities of the people who run SS (and somehow got them to Italy).

Other countries range of free speech is not as extensive as the US' (SS is banned in Italy and Aus that I know of)

There's this plant that is literally everywhere in my area, because it's very resilient and beautiful, it's called Oleander and it's poisonous. People have died by eating food roasted on it's sticks in campfires, so I thought I could go get some and make a smoothie out of its leaves and flowers My research made me a bit scared of doing it that way, but then I found way better methods, and in my search I found a news site that mentioned SS, so I googled it and found it.

Normies always think it's not true because if we want to die so badly, why don't we do it already? They fail to understand that this is a feeling that can increase and decrease in intensity and at it's worst it is what makes people try to ctb. It's not like we suddenly wake up, want to kill ourselves and proceed to doing so. The double standard of suicidal ideation vs suceeded suicidal attempt is also really ridiculous, why would people ask why someone who killed themselves didn't ask for help, when you simply didn't hear their pleas or ignored the signs?

Facts, I saw someone on Fthe26's pages saying that real suicidal people would keep quiet and do it while attention seekers discuss it lol.

People only care insofar if you actually attempt to or succeed in taking your life. God forbid your issues are long term.

I wouldn't care if that's how they felt if they didn't want to shut the website down.

 

[checkouttime]

Yeah these people are not "pro life" by any means. Just pro taking out their anger and even at times more pro death than anyone on SS. It's strange, they regularly ask why certain users (including Marquis) haven't killed themselves...even I know that suicidality is transient and anyone can be suicidal for a long time but it doesn't mean that you have to kill yourself or that you can't change your mind at any time. They want users on here to kill themselves otherwise we're all just predators or something.

All of the big names in the movement had kids who were 18+ but the crux of their movement is focusing on imaginary minors openly stating their age and being active on the forum. It's almost like they know deep down that no rational adult will find this forum to be illegal (maybe immoral) to shut it down so they have to depend entirely on fantastical arguments to get people to agree to them.


I was on the original subreddit. I never knew a website was created until I googled sanctioned suicide in June. That being said, this forum is very difficult to find now if you don't know its name. As a test, I tried googling extensively to see if I could find it without typing the name. It took a while, and that's even knowing what to look for and the specific phrases. Someone has to be deeply suicidal already to find this page.

i have seen the threads in regards to rue89 in which the members of said groups are openly mocking her and wishing her pain, thats not the way a person who is pro-life goes about things.thats just sum1 wanting revenge for their dead kid. the we had a middle aged man pretending to be a young autistic girl, if that doesn't scream nonce then i don't know what does, he doxxed a member on here who in turn CTB. yet these people somehow think they are pro life. like i said if i wanted help i would at least go to a professionals not just some idiots who think cause they got a dead kid they are experts or something. i mean they come on here trying to antagonise and scare people and manipulate people. you don't see the professionals trying any of that shit, you don't see the m setting up fb and twitter groups that mock suicidal people. I wish every person on this site could get better, well apart from the pro lifers lol, but its members rights to choose what they want to do. providing misinformation and trying to scare others isn't a good tactic, it probably increases the likelihood of someone trying something and failing and suffering even more.

i wonder how many of the pro lifers kids suffered because of BS posted on this site, people they are now friends with.

oh yeah i've heard about these so called imaginary minors before, its openly pointed out this site is meant for people that are over the age of 18. if people can't keep an eye on what there ' minors' are doing they want to get up off there fat lazy arses and try being a thing called a parent. there's millions and millions of people in the world who don't have a problem with their 'minors' being on a suicide site, they don't seem to have a problem with their kids going on this site. funny how just a small few compared to the population of the world do, says alot about them as parents to me.



do you have problems finding this site??? I'm always deleting my history etc and just type in sanctioned suicide on google myself, i can't be bothered remembering the URL!!!!!!

I had a hard time finding it myself. I found a lot of articles that mentioned suicide forums where all of these people were getting info, but nobody wanted to mention the name. By chance after searching for hours I came on an article condemning suicide forums that happened to be posted here. That's how I found the place.

i just type sanctioned suicide in google and it pops up top of the list. I have to do it all the time because i delete my history and can't be arsed remembering the URL

If you go on twitter this site also has a page, i imagine plenty of people are on twitter nowadays. and it has a link to the site

 

[OnlyTheWind]

i have seen the threads in regards to rue89 in which the members of said groups are openly mocking her and wishing her pain, thats not the way a person who is pro-life goes about things.thats just sum1 wanting revenge for their dead kid. the we had a middle aged man pretending to be a young autistic girl, if that doesn't scream nonce then i don't know what does, he doxxed a member on here who in turn CTB. yet these people somehow think they are pro life. like i said if i wanted help i would at least go to a professionals not just some idiots who think cause they got a dead kid they are experts or something. i mean they come on here trying to antagonise and scare people and manipulate people. you don't see the professionals trying any of that shit, you don't see the m setting up fb and twitter groups that mock suicidal people. I wish every person on this site could get better, well apart from the pro lifers lol, but its members rights to choose what they want to do. providing misinformation and trying to scare others isn't a good tactic, it probably increases the likelihood of someone trying something and failing and suffering even more.

i wonder how many of the pro lifers kids suffered because of BS posted on this site, people they are now friends with.

oh yeah i've heard about these so called imaginary minors before, its openly pointed out this site is meant for people that are over the age of 18. if people can't keep an eye on what there ' minors' are doing they want to get up off there fat lazy arses and try being a thing called a parent. there's millions and millions of people in the world who don't have a problem with their 'minors' being on a suicide site, they don't seem to have a problem with their kids going on this site. funny how just a small few compared to the population of the world do, says alot about them as parents to me.



do you have problems finding this site??? I'm always deleting my history etc and just type in sanctioned suicide on google myself, i can't be bothered remembering the URL!!!!!!

i just type sanctioned suicide in google and it pops up top of the list. I have to do it all the time because i delete my history and can't be arsed remembering the URL

If you go on twitter this site also has a page, i imagine plenty of people are on twitter nowadays. and it has a link to the site

Lmao, These people aren't pro-life. They're anti-choice narcissists who are offended by suicide and want everyone to submit to their views, and as soon as their lives are touched by the suicide boogeyman, it becomes a personal vendetta to shut down those who don't share their offense, even resorting to revenge tactics, kind of like Scientology. A true pro-life advocate would want to improve services and support for those who are vulnerable and would by nature be pro-choice, understanding that a suicidal person might take their life regardless of the help offered, not behave in a way that would cause more suicides.

 

[checkouttime]

To specify, it's not illegal in the United States. Other countries, it's iffy lol. I regularly Google News articles on SS and it seems that the Italian courts have determined that it /is/ illegal for them that charges are drawn up (would be) if they managed to find the identities of the people who run SS (and somehow got them to Italy).

Other countries range of free speech is not as extensive as the US' (SS is banned in Italy and Aus that I know of)

Facts, I saw someone on Fthe26's pages saying that real suicidal people would keep quiet and do it while attention seekers discuss it lol.

People only care insofar if you actually attempt to or succeed in taking your life. God forbid your issues are long term.

I wouldn't care if that's how they felt if they didn't want to shut the website down.

on the thread by the owner of this site, people had commented saying the could still access the site using TOR or a VPN.(it was the italian thread made by marquis)

so i noticed on one of the moderators pages they had wrote this about some italian site

"So I just visited this website with an Italian proxy. It looks like the news are false?" i haven't asked them what they were referring to though

well on fixture26 would know all about their kids just doing it wouldn't they.the proofs in the pudding as they say lol. I can only imagine how much suffering their kids went through to " just do it " as they say, i imagine alot are now smurfs lol. i imagine it wasn't very hard for their kids though you only have to look at how their parent, who wouldn't rather be 6 feet deep than with parents lie them!!!!! some members are here as they want to learn about methods, i mean we don't want people to go and do things just impulsively without the right information, we have to follow the lead of the pro-lifers kids, if only they were still around they could provide us with so much useful information and it would be alot easier. instead we have to research and learn, its a small price as people can get there in the end if the want all the sources of info are available. there are other members who have joined but are in the recovery section and want to get better. other members have SI issues, some people want to prepare or buy things for a later date or if things get worse. I'm not one to judge why or when people are still here myself, thats upto each member. the important part is if your going to do it to get it right.

i wouldn't say people only care if you attempt or succeed in taking your life . how many millions of families out there care alot about there kids and they never want to commit suicide? its only this small group that this that way i think personally, and its too late once someone is dead. I would think thats common sense to most people.

 

[Pure]

on the thread by the owner of this site, people had commented saying the could still access the site using TOR or a VPN.(it was the italian thread made by marquis)

Fine if you already have an account but you can't use a vpn to make one.

 

[checkouttime]

Lmao, These people aren't pro-life. They're anti-choice narcissists who are offended by suicide and want everyone to submit to their views, and as soon as their lives are touched by the suicide boogeyman, it becomes a personal vendetta to shut down those who don't share their offense, even resorting to revenge tactics, kind of like Scientology. A true pro-life advocate would want to improve services and support for those who are vulnerable and would by nature be pro-choice, understanding that a suicidal person might take their life regardless of the help offered, not behave in a way that would cause more suicides.

Its all about revenge. would a genuine professional mock a suicidal person and hope that a person was suffering whilst CTB, very simple to answer NO. thats exactly what that member of the anti SS group did, because oa member on here talked to their son, that plain and simple wanting revenge and to inflict pain and suffering. would real pro life people mock members and try to scare them and cause anxiety and anguish, the answer is no. If you went to the mental health cliicdi'm pretty sure they don't teach any of that!!! i mean really how fucking stupid does it sound people who do this, claiming they want to help!!!!!!!!! yeah no thanks, i'd take my chance wit the suicide hotline b4 listening to one of these idiots. they must all be thick inbreds if they can't even realise how faking dumb their claims to want to help are!!

like you said its a personnel vendetta, they want to leave this stuff upto professionals as they clearly have no clue in how to treat people with mental issues. I mean i can blame my behaviour on my mental health issues, whats there excuse????? yet they think they qualify to help others lmao

i totally agree with this

A true pro-life advocate would want to improve services and support for those who are vulnerable and would by nature be pro-choice, understanding that a suicidal person might take their life regardless of the help offered, not behave in a way that would cause more suicides.

thats why these people are trained professional and not a bunch of bitter twisted people with no clue apart from they have a dead relative/friend. somehow they seem to think they are professionals or something , they want to get of their high horse and leave it upto the people that are qualified.

no1 wants anyone to ctb really, but scare mongering ,making fake profiles, attacking members, mocking members how the fuck is that going to help. i imagine it will just increase anxiety and stress etc in members, hence causing more suicides, but they claim they want to help, yeah ok then. honestly its so laughable the claims they make the n all the evidence s there to see what they actually achieve, i mean we already had 2 members ctb because of them.

 

[Lmd]

The pro-choice position is not pro-death and we don't encourage suicide; we only advocate for our right to suicide as an option. We also would rather see systemic changes be implemented to help the vulnerable rather than have the vulnerable be euthanized. Because the vulnerable were never given a fair life, and these systemic changes would make the world a better place for future generations. So that's not a pro-life position, it's something we all agree on, except maybe some extreme promortalists.

The pro-choice position that usually comes when we talk about it in the forum barely have a understanding of how important and heavy is the weight of life and how rules affect the entire population, even if they aren't specifically addressed to us. Implementing something like that right now in a world where the word suicide is tabu will only devaluate human life even more.

I agree in the right to die with dignity. For example, I support euthanasia when you have an incurable illness because until this happens you've been evaluated and there were attempts to treat or alleviate it in some way. This option exists for when nothing else can be done for the patient and in countries where it's approve it isn't easy to achieve. Even where this is accepted is something HARD to been approved.

How can you assure me that this will happen the same way when we talk about mental health? Will pro-choice people be open to a proccess where they are gonna be evaluated? And considering how theraphy works right know and how some depressions and traumas are treating over years are they going to agree in take them? Or there will be a clause where you can refuse because you aren't "sick" and you do it for "autonomy"? How are you gonna be evaluated then?

Do you really think that if, right now, assisted suicide is implemented our lifes are gonna be taken with the respect and dignity they deserve if we choose it? Are we even prepared for it with the current understanding of mental health that we have?