Pentobarbital (N) is NOT as good as it seems. Not even close.

[I_go_in]

That's cool bro. If you drink it and don't throw it up you'll 100% die. It's literally not possible to live if you somehow get it into your body and take the right amount. Somebody paying you to post here?

 

[ThatStateOfMind]

I could never inject myself, I am glad I found a way to get SN. The payment process however is just as hard as finding the source to begin with.

Can agree, I haven't bought any but have gotten close. The payment methods stopped me in my tracks as I didn't expect PayPal to have been removed as an option, but it was removed, and there's new methods.

 

[Sunset Limited]

I agree with OP that oral administration is unnecessary to euthanasia. Bitter taste, risk of vomiting, prolonged time to death, premedication. I personally prefer IV thiopental. Maybe 2-4 mg midazolam as an anxiolytic first, then standard thiopental anesthesia induction dose (High concentration vascular irritation), 5 grams thiopental a minute later.

Still I have no problem in saying that oral N is the golden standard to someone who cannot access euthanasia. İt is just drink and go. Vomiting is rare with GABA-A receptor agonists. You probably won't vomit even if you don't use meto. Vomiting usually occurs after the medical procedure. Maybe the inert gas method can be better, but if you live alone and will be doing it at home. Still, I personally would rather drink something than deal with a cylinder, tubes, flow regulator, mask. You can carry N everywhere also.

 

[Gone.]

So, you've not tasted it yourself then? Ok.


You'll most likely be asleep (anaesthetised) before being able to self administer the full dose.


No, what it says in that document is 3-10% may not die within 2 hours, indicating the studies differ - there is no defined failure rate. It does not state anywhere that the failure rate is rather high. You would also be unconscious, and will die within 24 hours; but the clinics use an IV option to reduce that time.

I appreciate you've got your own views on the peacefulness or reliability of oral N, but that doesn't make your views the correct one. By all means share your research for others to read and feed into their own decisions, but to just state it's not a good method is incorrect, imo.

Even if I have tasted it myself, it would not be evidence-based as a sample size of 1 is nothing.

It takes five minutes to lose consciousness, and that is more than enough time to push. Worst case you can also do a pressure infusion. I advocate for evidence-based practise and that's it.

Bitterness in the mouth is hardly that bad. N was used in medical euthansia by several doctors in switzerland already. Please be more conscientious with your sources and things you say. Fairly low quality post, and pretty useless.

Any sources in re: bitterness in mouth that shows otherwise? Just because it's used doesn't mean it's ideal. Hence why internationally, IV euthanasia is the current evidence-based practise.

We can't really get any where if we are basing our argument off of "it looks peaceful but what if it's not". I mean one could argue "they look dead, but what if they are not?". If it looks peaceful and fast it's because it is. You would definitely know if it wasn't peaceful. One would definitely know how you are feeling while getting lumbar puncture w/o an anesthetic. Although it isn't an intolerable pain, patients usually can't sit still both from the anticipation of what's coming plus whatever pain they feel. Which is when physicians avoid doing it w/o an anesthetic. No one would wanna be near your spine with that giant needle while you are writhing. There is no such a thing as "it's so much more painful than it looks". One could maybe say "it's not as bad/painful as it looks".

And that is why you make sure the patient is dead before declaring death.

I agree with OP that oral administration is unnecessary to euthanasia. Bitter taste, risk of vomiting, prolonged time to death, premedication. I personally prefer IV thiopental. Maybe 2-4 mg midazolam as an anxiolytic first, then standard thiopental anesthesia induction dose (High concentration vascular irritation), 5 grams thiopental a minute later.

Still I have no problem in saying that oral N is the golden standard to someone who cannot access euthanasia. İt is just drink and go. Vomiting is rare with GABA-A receptor agonists. You probably won't vomit even if you don't use meto. Vomiting usually occurs after the medical procedure. Maybe the inert gas method can be better, but if you live alone and will be doing it at home. Still, I personally would rather drink something than deal with a cylinder, tubes, flow regulator, mask. You can carry N everywhere also.

I agree that oral pentobarbital is the ideal oral agent for euthanasia. Also, can you cite your claim on GABA-A agonists and vomiting? I've never heard about that and I'd love to read :)

 

[davidtorez]

ChatGPT 4o mini

Log in
You said:
Is Vomiting is rare with GABA-A receptor agonists?
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Vomiting is not typically common with GABA-A receptor agonists, but it can occur, especially at higher doses or in sensitive individuals. Do you have a specific medication in mind, or are you referring to a general class of drugs?



You said:
Barbiturates especially pentobarbital
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Vomiting can occur with barbiturates, including pentobarbital, but it is not typically considered a primary side effect. Barbiturates, which act as GABA-A receptor agonists, have a range of potential side effects, including sedation, respiratory depression, hypotension, and in some cases, gastrointestinal issues like nausea and vomiting.

Vomiting may be more likely if the drug is taken in high doses or if there is an overdose situation. Additionally, pentobarbital can depress the central nervous system to the point of affecting the gastrointestinal system.

If vomiting occurs with pentobarbital, it could indicate an adverse reaction, overdose, or sensitivity to the drug, and medical attention would be warranted. It's always important to use such medications under strict medical supervision, given their narrow therapeutic index.
This is why it is VERY important to take something like metoclopramide before drinking oral N especially the injectable veterinary drug .

 

[Gone.]

ChatGPT 4o mini

Log in
You said:
Is Vomiting is rare with GABA-A receptor agonists?
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Vomiting is not typically common with GABA-A receptor agonists, but it can occur, especially at higher doses or in sensitive individuals. Do you have a specific medication in mind, or are you referring to a general class of drugs?



You said:
Barbiturates especially pentobarbital
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Vomiting can occur with barbiturates, including pentobarbital, but it is not typically considered a primary side effect. Barbiturates, which act as GABA-A receptor agonists, have a range of potential side effects, including sedation, respiratory depression, hypotension, and in some cases, gastrointestinal issues like nausea and vomiting.

Vomiting may be more likely if the drug is taken in high doses or if there is an overdose situation. Additionally, pentobarbital can depress the central nervous system to the point of affecting the gastrointestinal system.

If vomiting occurs with pentobarbital, it could indicate an adverse reaction, overdose, or sensitivity to the drug, and medical attention would be warranted. It's always important to use such medications under strict medical supervision, given their narrow therapeutic index.
This is why it is VERY important to take something like metoclopramide before drinking oral N especially the injectable veterinary drug .

Agreed - Hence the current protocol calling for 8mg ondansetron and meto~

 

[Tesha]

It takes five minutes to lose consciousness, and that is more than enough time to push. Worst case you can also do a pressure infusion. I advocate for evidence-based practise and that's it.

May I suggest you do some research on the speed of action of IV pentobarbital sodium (N)

Spoiler: Spoiler

it's near instant

You need to remember you'll be trying to administer fatal, not dosed anaesthetic quantities.

 

[Gone.]

May I suggest you do some research on the speed of action of IV pentobarbital sodium (N)

Spoiler: Spoiler

it's near instant

You need to remember you'll be trying to administer fatal, not dosed anaesthetic quantities.

So maybe do a drip or something. Or some sort of mechanism using springs or elastics to push the drug.

 

[davidtorez]

Agreed - Hence the current protocol calling for 8mg ondansetron and meto~

Is ondansetron fairly easy to acquire?