On a scale pro-life (anti-choice), pro-choice or pro-death where would you see yourself? (1-10)

[jodes2]

7. Many people would be better off if they'd never been born. I'm amazed at people who suffer enormously and don't CTB

 

[GrumpyFrog]

This thread makes me think of a doctor I know, who told me how the "rate your pain from 1 to 10" scale is completely useless without explanations and examples of what each number means, because nearly everyone rates their pain 9 or 10 regardless of how bad it really is, except for people who want to look tough and pick something around 4 even when they're dying. I am not criticizing the idea as it is, but I think a list of examples of what, say, a 4 or a 7 would mean would be helpful.

As for my personal stance, I do have a certain set of beliefs. I believe that ending ones life is a viable option of resolving otherwise unresolvable issues, and if a person really feels like their life isn't worth living and it is not fixable, they should be allowed to use a painless and dignified way out. If I was making the laws on it, I would probably put a small waiting period for those who want to end their lives and mandated that people try therapy and, if necessary, psychiatric medication before they gain access to the means of suicide - to weed out impulsive decisions, suicide gestures and people who are mentally ill and can be helped, but are incapable of realizing that, for example those with psychosis. However, I do not believe that therapy is the magic wand that can fix everything, especially when the reason for suicidality is not mental illness in the first place. I think anyone who wants to end their life should consider all other options for relieving their pain first, because CTB is an irreversible decision, but I wouldn't say that considering all options and coming up empty-handed except for CTB is not a realistic scenario. I have no idea what number to use to represent that, though.

 

[Celerity]

8

As I have stated in other threads, I draw the line at kids. I also think you should have a good reason to kill yourself, even if it is your right to kill yourself for getting gum stuck on your shoe if you wish.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

I also think you should have a good reason to kill yourself

I think most of us would agree with this statement, but the interesting part comes with defining what exactly constitutes a "good reason". I would be interested in hearing opinions on that. What do you think?

 

[Celerity]

I think most of us would agree with this statement, but the interesting part comes with defining what exactly constitutes a "good reason". I would be interested in hearing opinions on that. What do you think?

Lifelong suffering. Nihilism. Loneliness. Basically, any prolonged period of time where you have taken a good, long look at what life offers and decided it's not for you.

A breakup, the death of a loved one, or a lost job just don't qualify, IMO. Too many people have killed themselves over being rejected by people they were never meant to be with long-term.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Lifelong suffering. Nihilism. Loneliness. Basically, any prolonged period of time where you have taken a good, long look at what life offers and decided it's not for you.

A breakup, the death of a loved one, or a lost job just don't qualify, IMO. Too many people have killed themselves over being rejected by people they were never meant to be with long-term.

There is so much to unwrap here that I'm probably going to go make a new thread to avoid hijacking this one...

 

[Celerity]

There is so much to unwrap here that I'm probably going to go make a new thread to avoid hijacking this one...

Uh oh. That bad, huh?

 

[GrumpyFrog]

That bad, huh?

Nah, not bad. Just...interesting. I'm not about to start a fight and I do not insist that you go to my thread and explain the "why" behind what you just expressed, but you can do that if you would like to.

 

[whatevs]

6.5.

There's something off about life itself but we might need to figure it out forcibly (spiritually) and suicide might not stop the process.

 

[chloramine]

Probably a 5 all around? I'm not against having say requirements to try solutions before administering euthanasia (although if they're going to require you to try it then they should be facilitating it financially and transportation wise and everything). I would be wary about what they required because it's also not fair to make someone suffer through trying literally every possible solution first- maybe a set up where you're given a list of options and have to pick 3 to try would be okay? I don't know. I don't think people should ever be locked up because they tried to make it happen themselves. Inpatient and outpatient programs should require consent (at least for self harm and suicide. If someone is a danger to others that's different). I understand doctors not being comfortable helping people die if they haven't tried one or two things first because that's a lot, but forcing someone to stay alive against their will is a whole other issue. Everything I write has a bunch of qualifiers because it's all so complicated and dependant on different factors. I am never comfortable with forcing someone to live against their will, but it feels wrong to say have a death pill be available over the counter. That could just be biases from society that are influencing my perspective too. I don't know what the right balance is, but I strongly believe people should have a large say in whether they live or die.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Probably a 7. I would not encourage death on anyone and believe that we are entitled to our own choices as to whether we CTB or not, but I find living inferior lives completely wasteful. Living for the sake of it is simply not worth it.

 

[NoLoveNoHope]

I think I'm a solid 5, I think everyone deserve to have a choice in their life.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I guess I find the scale a bit difficult to understand... does it relate to gatekeeping suicide? So- if 1 is- no one should be allowed to commit suicide and 10 is- everyone should be allowed to commit suicide- what are the other numbers? Is 5- terminal illness? 6- chronic mental/ physical illness? 7- terrible life situation etc etc.

Or- do you mean attitudes? 1- no one should commit suicide? 5- people have the right to choose? 10- we should be trying to convince everyone to commit suicide- even if they don't want to- because it's their best option- whether they realise it or not- ok I AM joking here- I don't think ANYONE here wants to do that. I'd say in this scale- we are ALL a 5 or less. No one here seems to want to push others towards suicide UNLESS that person has absolutely decided for themself that it is what they want...

I'm a 5 in the attitude scale- it's up to the individual. That's not to say support shouldn't be OFFERED but no one should feel obliged to accept that support. If the scale is about who 'deserves' access to assisted suicide- I'd say- anyone over 18 who can clearly express a wish for it over a 6 month period in which they should be offered help but aren't obliged to accept it. I don't know what number that would be...

 

[gardenofaphrodite]

5/10 - pro-choice in every aspect, abortion, right to safe ctb methods, etc. I am not pro-death. I think some people who are suicidal/have suicide ideation, can recover if given the resources & a good support network. I don't think death is always the answer, however it can be one of them. I think that choosing death is a very big decision, a very permanent decision when successful.

I myself think about other decisions, but in my circumstance, at least at the moment, death is looking like a good one- but that may change. I feel at least trying to help yourself, mental health, seeking help should be done before truly deciding- if that process doesn't go well for you, then I would put death back on the table as a choice. But that is just my opinion, everyone is different.

 

[letsalllovelain:3]

7/10

 

[targz]

Probably 9/10 and has been steadily increasing. I actually found this site through r/promortalism. I wish everyone would just die right now, more than I've ever wanted anything.

 

[noname223]

I guess I find the scale a bit difficult to understand... does it relate to gatekeeping suicide? So- if 1 is- no one should be allowed to commit suicide and 10 is- everyone should be allowed to commit suicide- what are the other numbers? Is 5- terminal illness? 6- chronic mental/ physical illness? 7- terrible life situation etc etc.

Or- do you mean attitudes? 1- no one should commit suicide? 5- people have the right to choose? 10- we should be trying to convince everyone to commit suicide- even if they don't want to- because it's their best option- whether they realise it or not- ok I AM joking here- I don't think ANYONE here wants to do that. I'd say in this scale- we are ALL a 5 or less. No one here seems to want to push others towards suicide UNLESS that person has absolutely decided for themself that it is what they want...

I'm a 5 in the attitude scale- it's up to the individual. That's not to say support shouldn't be OFFERED but no one should feel obliged to accept that support. If the scale is about who 'deserves' access to assisted suicide- I'd say- anyone over 18 who can clearly express a wish for it over a 6 month period in which they should be offered help but aren't obliged to accept it. I don't know what number that would be...

Now with some distance from it I might agree with @Chinaski the idea of the thread is kind of stupid to imagine such a metric.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Now with some distance from it I might agree with @Chinaski the idea of the thread is kind of stupid to imagine such a metric.

Nah- not stupid. It's an interesting idea- it's a question I expect we all ask ourselves when we think about assisted suicide. It's just hard to quantify on a scale I think.

Plus- there are different aspects to it... As I see it- there's the actual physical aspect- who should be given access to assisted suicide.

There's the verbalised aspect here- most people won't go beyond a 5- ie. it HAS to be the individual's choice- if they don't know themselves- we shouldn't push them towards suicide.

Then, I guess, there's the more abstract, universal aspect. It's clear that SOME members here ARE pro-mortalist. They likely DO believe that death is the best option for all human beings but they probably still won't impose this view on individual's because they still respect our individual right to choose.

 

[charlotte_]

I'm certainly a 5. I'm not pro anything, and I think everyone deserve a choice to live a happy and fulfilled life, but that's not possible so they should be able to choose death as a final resort. Life is beautiful and cruel at the same time, same as death

 

[unnormal9]

Neither—I simply wish to die.

 

[wiltingorchid]

5/10.

 

[Tortured_empath]

Pro-life

 

[OceanBlue]

I'm anti-death, meaning I'm antinatalist. It seems best and safest to live as little as possible.

I think we shouldn't kill others without consent, instead we could collectively decide not to reproduce further.

So, I guess I'm 8.5

 

[Zegers]

100% pro-choice

 

[leloyon]

Solid 10. I am a misanthrope.

 

[kansatsu]

2/10

 

[heavyeyes]

Strictly prochoice 5-6

 

[Praestat_Mori]

9 (for all adults, 18+)

That includes all options (including recovery should someone giving recovery a try). SI is the best protection.

 

[ForgottenAgain]

4/10
I don't think everyone should commit suicide, some people can still change their lives around, others can't or it would be too painful. I think an in-between of pro life and pro choice may be where the sweet spot is.

 

[doomer843]

1 is pro-life or anti-choice, pro-choice is 5 and pro-death is 10.

To clarify some things: The are more grey areas than simply being pro-life. You can for example be in favor of assisted suicide for terminally ill but not for mentally ill. You can be against assisted suicide at all and only see suicide as acceptable when the state has nothing to do with it.
When I am talking about pro-death I see it as the philosophical definition of a pro-mortalist which is quite extreme in my point of view. A pro-mortalist thinks that suicide is for every human being in every possible scenario or situation the best choice. This is at least what I have read.
Don't confuse that with antinatalism. This is humans should never be born in the first place.

I am roundabout on this scale a 4,5-5,5. In favor of more pro-life is my stance that suicide should at least for me be more or less the last resort. And I think it is a good choice first to try therapy if it is available before wanting to ctb. (if an illness is the cause for the suicidality.)
On the other side I am big defender of the right of assisted suicide. I think it should be available to almost every people on this planet when the wish is persistent.

Maybe you think this is a weird question. I thought about making a poll but 10 answers would have been too much imo. For the people who are more in favor of a little bit pro-life it is not ideal that this is not anonymous...

why is only 1 anti-choice? 1 and 10 are both completely disregarding what people actually want