It all leads back here, always.

[Niko]

It seems like it shouldn't be that difficult to end it all, but why can't i just do it already? It'd be nice if i could just make a decision here, whether or not to live and to hold fast to my choice, but i get carried away by the moment. i can even trick myself into thinking i'm truly happy sometimes but it never lasts, nothing ever lasts.

the more i think of ending it all the less i wanna work to make things better. the less i try to make things better the worse i feel. and the worse i feel the more i wanna end it all; but that's old news at this point.

i'm so stupidly stuck right now: i don't want to kill myself just yet but i don't think i'm capable of 'living' a real life either. so i just wait... for nothing really. nothing's changing and i'm just waiting stupidly for some sort of miracle or just the ultimate inevitable.

i'm stuck in an infinite limbo where all the doors lead back to where i started, so why bother?... and yet i do keep bothering... fuck.

lol, does anybody else know what the heck i'm talking about? this is really just a mindless ramble.

 

[MachineGunDani]

A lot of us feel this way. Scared to live and scared to ctb. It's not an easy issue to deal with! I can totally relate!

 

[Roph]

A lot of us feel this way. Scared to live and scared to ctb. It's not an easy issue to deal with! I can totally relate!

Totally agree. It can be a really difficult issue to deal with.

 

[Niko]

well that's good to know at least, that we're not so alone : ]

 

[Lara Francis]

So relatable and we'll said.

 

[Salvacion]

And then we neglect doing the things we need to do on a daily basis because we consider that we are going to CTB. Then when we don't everything is that much worse

 

[bigj75]

And then we neglect doing the things we need to do on a daily basis because we consider that we are going to CTB. Then when we don't everything is that much worse

Completely right.

 

[Dream]

Before you were born you were basically dead..
So after dying you will be dead again
i guess the beginning is also the end...

 

[ctoan]

Before you were born you were basically dead..
So after dying you will be dead again
i guess the beginning is also the end...

it never begun for me in the first place

 

[Susannah]

It seems like it shouldn't be that difficult to end it all, but why can't i just do it already? It'd be nice if i could just make a decision here, whether or not to live and to hold fast to my choice, but i get carried away by the moment. i can even trick myself into thinking i'm truly happy sometimes but it never lasts, nothing ever lasts.

the more i think of ending it all the less i wanna work to make things better. the less i try to make things better the worse i feel. and the worse i feel the more i wanna end it all; but that's old news at this point.

i'm so stupidly stuck right now: i don't want to kill myself just yet but i don't think i'm capable of 'living' a real life either. so i just wait... for nothing really. nothing's changing and i'm just waiting stupidly for some sort of miracle or just the ultimate inevitable.

i'm stuck in an infinite limbo where all the doors lead back to where i started, so why bother?... and yet i do keep bothering... fuck.

lol, does anybody else know what the heck i'm talking about? this is really just a mindless ramble.

I know. Everyday I feel like you do, going in circle. I wish I didn't have to wake up tomorrow. I'm so tired of everything, but to weak to take control over my own destiny/life/death. Pathetic me.

 

[zadig777]

Before you were born you were basically dead..
So after dying you will be dead again
i guess the beginning is also the end...

very well said good job

 

[0blivi0n]

And it makes you feel so numb & lifeless just being stuck. You know that you could do it anytime but your waiting for that one more bad thing to push you over, but it never quite feels bad enough. Some days things feel okay, but even then you can't even drive past a motorway bridge without thinking 'what if I just did it now'. It's a continuous, never ending cycle- & every time it repeats, it gets worse.

 

[zadig777]

it takes time i guess
after some time and huge desperation u will do it
but it takes time and suffering

 

[windingdown]

Something I've been thinking of today is that this is ultimately what I will do - whether now, or later. Though I couldn't bear to get old, if I did, I would still be facing this issue at, say, 70. Would it be easier then? I don't think so. I am at a place now where I've made my peace and feel ready to leave this world behind. What keeps me here is fear over the process of dying - fearing pain and uncertainty. I'm not going to stop being afraid of that just because I'm old. I'm as ready to leave now as I'll ever be. (I mean, I've just made my pumpkin bread recipe for the last time, so I'm pretty sure I'm ready now.)

 

[GeorgeEastman]

70, wow. I'd be so pissed off that someone else would have killed me by then or society shun me to the point of starvation.

I'm already an insufferable bastard really. By then there's just no way. I'd be taking pisses out in the open. I already cuss people out. There will just be no way. No way I can be around people and since I can't live off the land, certain death.

 

[Jon]

Seriously don't worry mate, it's fine if you live, it's fine if you don't. I seriously think those who have really reached their limit, who simply cannot go on, just go ahead and do it. We're all essentially in the same boat, if we weren't, we wouldn't be here.

 

[Susannah]

Seriously don't worry mate, it's fine if you live, it's fine if you don't. I seriously think those who have really reached their limit, who simply cannot go on, just go ahead and do it. We're all essentially in the same boat, if we weren't, we wouldn't be here.

I find what Jon writes here very important, and I hope I'm not alone. This Forum isn't about "pressure" people to end their life. Some threads, included mine, describes the despair and weakness we feel not even being able to end our missery. These thoughts doesn't bother me in life, or make my days worse. It's not a competition in bravery we do here. Like, who is tough enough to do it... I don't want anyone of you to die, unless you know It's the only thing left in life and your pain is unberable.

 

[Jon]

I find what Jon writes here very important, and I hope I'm not alone. This Forum isn't about "pressure" people to end their life. Some threads, included mine, describes the despair and weakness we feel not even being able to end our missery. These thoughts doesn't bother me in life, or make my days worse. It's not a competition in bravery we do here. Like, who is tough enough to do it... I don't want anyone of you to die, unless you know It's the only thing left in life and your pain is unberable.

Glad you liked the post, and I agree a hundred percent what you wrote. Particularly "the despair and weakness we feel not even being able to end our missery." It's exactly this fear that drives us to desperation, we become frantic and claustrophobic, and instead of spending our time on things which could improve our situation we are frantically searching a means to get out. I felt like that a few months ago, I was absolutely desperate and despite having contemplated suicide for about six years, I realised that I didn't actually know how to. This added to the desperation, I was reading up all on the bridges and cliffs in England, and just finding that some had barriers erected, cliffs like beachy head were constantly patrolled and that even there jumpers aren't always killed but permanently maimed by the protruding rocks, and even more gruesome and unpredictable measures like jumping in front of a train were blocked by seeing many workers on the line and that the train was going at a markedly reduced speed, not to mention the countless CCTV cameras and the £1000 fine for trespassing.

It is this desperation that makes us feel trapped, and that sensation only worsens an already bad situation. The whole time was spent searching for a way out rather than a way to stay in, just like any animal would react when trapped. Self-preservation is innate to us, but so too is the desire to escape from perceived danger such as fire and being stuck in a trap. I went to the doctor for some sleeping meds and thought, what if instead of asking for meds I could ask for a lethal injection? And that he could book me in at 4pm and the process would only take a few seconds, but if I couldn't make it I could come another day. How much relief would I have felt, how much weight would have been taken off my mind? I probably wouldn't have gone back at 4pm, but at least I would have known I could go at any time.

I'm convinced that these archaic laws only add to the misery and suffering and contribute to rash decision making, especially in the young. And for adults, who have decided rationally that they want out then the final leg wouldn't be filled with anxiety and desperation but of peace and tranquility. They would still do it, but at the time that suits them rather than at that tiny window of opportunity. Many young suicides are rash, many older suicides are rational, but what drives each and every one of us is that once we see a chance we grab it, because we know it could be the only opportunity we have. Thus few of us die free from pain and anxiety, and even far fewer at the time that they want, and some of the most unfortunate don't even make it, and don't die but are permanently maimed or left like a vegetable.

 

[406blue]

And it makes you feel so numb & lifeless just being stuck. You know that you could do it anytime but your waiting for that one more bad thing to push you over, but it never quite feels bad enough. Some days things feel okay, but even then you can't even drive past a motorway bridge without thinking 'what if I just did it now'. It's a continuous, never ending cycle- & every time it repeats, it gets worse.

I had to go out this morning to get some papers for a tax return. On the way back i was stopped at a train crossing in the car and thought .. now, just do it now ffs. Get out of the car, jump the barrier just before the train arrives, it's done. Then i got into thinking how horrible it would be for everyone else to witness this but i know really that the root cause was fear, cowardice, wanting to live a bit longer. Many people have this conflict in here.

I did some shopping on the way back also, there was a homeless guy who looked like a junkie asleep outside the supermarket. i wondered how often he might have been thinking of killing himself for years, maybe not. But he was still here and doing his best to survive. I increasingly see how it's easy to find oneself in this position from the loss of will to either live or die.

The one more event that it takes happened to me, or so i thought and i actively engaged with it somewhere along the line, wanting to be pushed over the edge. I lost my home, my work and all the relationships that meant anything to me. Still here.

 

[bigj75]

I had to go out this morning to get some papers for a tax return. On the way back i was stopped at a train crossing in the car and thought .. now, just do it now ffs. Get out of the car, jump the barrier just before the train arrives, it's done. Then i got into thinking how horrible it would be for everyone else to witness this but i know really that the root cause was fear, cowardice, wanting to live a bit longer. Many people have this conflict in here.

I did some shopping on the way back also, there was a homeless guy who looked like a junkie asleep outside the supermarket. i wondered how often he might have been thinking of killing himself for years, maybe not. But he was still here and doing his best to survive. I increasingly see how it's easy to find oneself in this position from the loss of will to either live or die.

I've been there before. You are right. It's quite easy to lose everything.

 

[406blue]

Glad you liked the post, and I agree a hundred percent what you wrote. Particularly "the despair and weakness we feel not even being able to end our missery." It's exactly this fear that drives us to desperation, we become frantic and claustrophobic, and instead of spending our time on things which could improve our situation we are frantically searching a means to get out. I felt like that a few months ago, I was absolutely desperate and despite having contemplated suicide for about six years, I realised that I didn't actually know how to. This added to the desperation, I was reading up all on the bridges and cliffs in England, and just finding that some had barriers erected, cliffs like beachy head were constantly patrolled and that even there jumpers aren't always killed but permanently maimed by the protruding rocks, and even more gruesome and unpredictable measures like jumping in front of a train were blocked by seeing many workers on the line and that the train was going at a markedly reduced speed, not to mention the countless CCTV cameras and the £1000 fine for trespassing.

It is this desperation that makes us feel trapped, and that sensation only worsens an already bad situation. The whole time was spent searching for a way out rather than a way to stay in, just like any animal would react when trapped. Self-preservation is innate to us, but so too is the desire to escape from perceived danger such as fire and being stuck in a trap. I went to the doctor for some sleeping meds and thought, what if instead of asking for meds I could ask for a lethal injection? And that he could book me in at 4pm and the process would only take a few seconds, but if I couldn't make it I could come another day. How much relief would I have felt, how much weight would have been taken off my mind? I probably wouldn't have gone back at 4pm, but at least I would have known I could go at any time.

I'm convinced that these archaic laws only add to the misery and suffering and contribute to rash decision making, especially in the young. And for adults, who have decided rationally that they want out then the final leg wouldn't be filled with anxiety and desperation but of peace and tranquility. They would still do it, but at the time that suits them rather than at that tiny window of opportunity. Many young suicides are rash, many older suicides are rational, but what drives each and every one of us is that once we see a chance we grab it, because we know it could be the only opportunity we have. Thus few of us die free from pain and anxiety, and even far fewer at the time that they want, and some of the most unfortunate don't even make it, and don't die but are permanently maimed or left like a vegetable.

Nice, articulate post. A peaceful death is viewed differently according to the dying person versus the observer. Others might prefer us to go with great suffering, as long as it conforms to their conception of what happens when people die, ie in a hospice or hospital. Friends and family can come and go once a week and there's a gradual process that can be more or less understood. I'm not saying it's pleasant for them either, just more acceptable. Suicide is taboo, and we have centuries of religion to thank for that. It's rarely touched on seriously in films or books that the majority of people are ever likely to watch or read. It's surely the case that the issue is repressed because if it wasn't people would be more likely to do it. Sure, but what does this say about the lives people actually lead. Why are all sorts of drugs so heavily restricted? Because so many people want to use them. I wonder why...

 

[406blue]

Before you were born you were basically dead..
So after dying you will be dead again
i guess the beginning is also the end...

Sometimes i think of life and death as a continuum, as opposed to life and death as finite states. Perhaps there's more than the black and white of it all and that we perceive little of what exists outside of our conditioning and egos. We were dead before we lived, we live, we die again. Who can say that we don't live again for certain, or lived before we were born, i don't know. We choose and adopt and reinforce so many ways of thinking during our lives. If we had been born and raised in another part of the world we would think very differently about it. There are, although they are gradually being eradicated, so many different cultures that think differently about all this, compared to typical western ideas of atheist values, which don't rely on nothingness. In general i think the end is the end and that's it. But i can't say i'm sure about it.

 

[throwaway123]

I hate this endless cycle

 

[406blue]

I hate this endless cycle

yes, it's a drag.

 

[Jon]

Nice, articulate post. A peaceful death is viewed differently according to the dying person versus the observer. Others might prefer us to go with great suffering, as long as it conforms to their conception of what happens when people die, ie in a hospice or hospital. Friends and family can come and go once a week and there's a gradual process that can be more or less understood. I'm not saying it's pleasant for them either, just more acceptable. Suicide is taboo, and we have centuries of religion to thank for that. It's rarely touched on seriously in films or books that the majority of people are ever likely to watch or read. It's surely the case that the issue is repressed because if it wasn't people would be more likely to do it. Sure, but what does this say about the lives people actually lead. Why are all sorts of drugs so heavily restricted? Because so many people want to use them. I wonder why...

Yeah, what's interesting is that both Cicero and Epictetus are recommended reading in How to Read a Book's recommended reading list, found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Read_a_Book#Reading_list_(1972_edition)

Yet both of them take the rational approach to suicide, like Epictetus who frequently says "If it suits you live, if not, you're free to come from where you came." Yet he still doesn't encourage it, and in one instance he questions a man's reasons for starving himself to death and they both agreed it wasn't rational at that time. And just one of many from Cicero: "But if, through life, we are in continual suspense, still expecting, still desiring, and are in continual pain and torture, good Gods! how pleasant must that journey be which ends in security and ease!". And Cicero is regarded as one of the greatest minds to have ever lived.

And in the footnotes of the Chicago Press translation of Seneca's Letters, the translator states: "Life in itself—its mere duration—is of no intrinsic value in Stoic thought: it is one of the preferred indifferents; but there are situations in which suicide is appropriate, when dispreferred circumstances prevail without possibility of improvement. See Cicero, On Ends 3.60–61 [LS 66G]; Diogenes Laertius 7.130 [LS 66H]."

And even Seneca, whose even his name is synonymous with suicide, in one letter questions himself, when one is faced with death, whether he should or shouldn't do the job of the executioner.

There was another article, which is why fewer and fewer people today read ancient works, and the conclusion was that their thoughts simply aren't generally accepted in today's society, so as you say, are repressed or "put out of view". Not just regarding the rational approach to suicide, but other matters like sexism. So the powers to be enforce what we should and shouldn't read, and even though much of what they said and wrote was 2000 years ago, it is still perfectly rational, reasonable, and responsible and doesn't, when read fully and in its entirety, don't encourage suicide; they just state it could be appropriate in certain situations, but that the final decision rests upon the rational adult.

 

[406blue]

Yeah, what's interesting is that both Cicero and Epictetus are recommended reading in How to Read a Book's recommended reading list, found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Read_a_Book#Reading_list_(1972_edition)

Yet both of them take the rational approach to suicide, like Epictetus who frequently says "If it suits you live, if not, you're free to come from where you came." Yet he still doesn't encourage it, and in one instance he questions a man's reasons for starving himself to death and they both agreed it wasn't rational at that time. And just one of many from Cicero: "But if, through life, we are in continual suspense, still expecting, still desiring, and are in continual pain and torture, good Gods! how pleasant must that journey be which ends in security and ease!". And Cicero is regarded as one of the greatest minds to have ever lived.

And in the footnotes of the Chicago Press translation of Seneca's Letters, the translator states: "Life in itself—its mere duration—is of no intrinsic value in Stoic thought: it is one of the preferred indifferents; but there are situations in which suicide is appropriate, when dispreferred circumstances prevail without possibility of improvement. See Cicero, On Ends 3.60–61 [LS 66G]; Diogenes Laertius 7.130 [LS 66H]."

And even Seneca, whose even his name is synonymous with suicide, in one letter questions himself, when one is faced with death, whether he should or shouldn't do the job of the executioner.

There was another article, which is why fewer and fewer people today read ancient works, and the conclusion was that their thoughts simply aren't generally accepted in today's society, so as you say, are repressed or "put out of view". Not just regarding the rational approach to suicide, but other matters like sexism. So the powers to be enforce what we should and shouldn't read, even though much of what they said and wrote was 2000 years ago, is still perfectly rational, reasonable, and responsible and doesn't, when read fully and in its entirety, encourage suicide; they just state it could be appropriate in certain situations, but that the final decision rests upon the rational adult.

Didn't Seneca commit suicide eventually? I used to love reading philosophy, especially the book written by bertrand russell on western philosophy and a lot of camus The intrinsic condition of man hasn't really changed very much since the times of these ancients. People struggle with the same existential issues just under different physical circumstances. They may have more wealth and longer lives but the gremlins of struggle man against man continue along with the crippling desire to conform. Hobbes it was who said that the condition of man is essentially brutal, nasty and short.

Suicide was an issue for camus as well, i know. He didn't encourage it either but at least posed the question. I imagine everyone in this forum has engaged with their own inner philosopher, about whether life is worth living. The trouble seems to be that occasionally it is, no matter how brutish and nasty most of the time.

I read a work by Seneca, on the shortness of life. One of many books which have helped me over the years.

 

[Jon]

Didn't Seneca commit suicide eventually? I used to love reading philosophy, especially the book written by bertrand russell on western philosophy and a lot of camus The intrinsic condition of man hasn't really changed very much since the times of these ancients. People struggle with the same existential issues just under different physical circumstances. They may have more wealth and longer lives but the gremlins of struggle man against man continue along with the crippling desire to conform. Hobbes it was who said that the condition of man is essentially brutal, nasty and short.

Suicide was an issue for camus as well, i know. He didn't encourage it either but at least posed the question. I imagine everyone in this forum has engaged with their own inner philosopher, about whether life is worth living. The trouble seems to be that occasionally it is, no matter how brutish and nasty most of the time.

He was forced to commit suicide under the orders of Nero, as he was implicated in the assassination plot to kill Nero and install Piso. Tacitus goes into detail about the suicide here, at paragraph 63:

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Annals_(Tacitus)/Book_15

Basically it didn't go as smoothly as he'd hope, and ended up having his arteries slit by a skilled physician, which didn't allow for enough blood to spill out, then he drank some prepared hemlock which didn't work, and finally he had a hot tub filled and drowned through the steam (the latter being a common suicide method in Ancient Rome for non-soldiers). Soldiers used to die by their own sword, as did Thrasea, described in the final book right at the end, but abruptly cut off.

 

[406blue]

He was forced to commit suicide under the orders of Nero, as he was implicated in the assassination plot to kill Nero and install Piso. Tacitus goes into detail about the suicide here, at paragraph 63:

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Annals_(Tacitus)/Book_15

Basically it didn't go as smoothly as he'd hope, and ended up having his arteries slit by a skilled physician, which didn't allow for enough blood to spill out, then he drank some prepared hemlock which didn't work, and finally he had a hot tub filled and drowned through the steam (the latter being a common suicide method in Ancient Rome for non-soldiers). Soldiers used to die by their own sword, as did Thrasea, described in the final book right at the end, but abruptly cut off.

I guess Seneca didn't have access to the internet, that method doesn't come up too often in here. It makes me wonder when opium was first cultivated.

 

[406blue]

It seems like it shouldn't be that difficult to end it all, but why can't i just do it already? It'd be nice if i could just make a decision here, whether or not to live and to hold fast to my choice, but i get carried away by the moment. i can even trick myself into thinking i'm truly happy sometimes but it never lasts, nothing ever lasts.

the more i think of ending it all the less i wanna work to make things better. the less i try to make things better the worse i feel. and the worse i feel the more i wanna end it all; but that's old news at this point.

i'm so stupidly stuck right now: i don't want to kill myself just yet but i don't think i'm capable of 'living' a real life either. so i just wait... for nothing really. nothing's changing and i'm just waiting stupidly for some sort of miracle or just the ultimate inevitable.

i'm stuck in an infinite limbo where all the doors lead back to where i started, so why bother?... and yet i do keep bothering... fuck.

lol, does anybody else know what the heck i'm talking about? this is really just a mindless ramble.

Deciding you would rather die than live is the first stage. The second is working out how to do it effectively. The third is doing it.

 

[Jon]

I guess Seneca didn't have access to the internet, that method doesn't come up too often in here. It makes me wonder when opium was first cultivated.

Haha actually if I'm not mistaken opium was consumed for pleasure, but not smoked or known to work for pain. But I may be mistaken. The reason for the blood was that it was considered an honorable death for men to die by shedding blood.

The drowning by steam was actually by all accounts very effective, Seneca in Letter 77 describes a man who took his life in a similar fashion:

He had no need of the knife or of any bloodshed. For three days he abstained from food, and he directed that a tent be set up right in his bedroom.* Then a tub was brought in. He lay in it for a long time, and by slipping repeatedly under the hot water he gradually gave way. From what he said, there was a kind of pleasure in it; a not infrequent occurrence when one is expiring without violence. Those of us who have had fainting spells have also experienced this.*

According to the footnotes, "the purpose of the tent seems to be to speed the intended drowning by concentrating steam near the water's surface".