wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
479
not intending this to come across in a critical way, I know it's hard to convey tone over text. But I am a vegan and I find it hard to understand why others aren't. I know not everyone can eat 100% plant based but for those who can, and can avoid animal products, I'm curious as to why they don't
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
20,751
I'm simply not a fan of wiping out 99% of my favorite foods from my diet. Meat and dairy also just tastes better.
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
2,958
Easy! I just don't want to be one. I don't want to eliminate a large portion of the foods I enjoy. Along with that, certain vegan alternatives usually call for things that I'm allergic to, like nuts. While I wouldn't mind cutting down a bit on my meat consumption, I don't want to stop eating meat and animal products.
 
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wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
479
I get that it's hard to give up a lot of different foods you enjoy, and that eating plant based can be more challenging if you have a nut allergy - but does the suffering/ slaughter of the animals not bother you? or is it something that bothers you but giving up those foods feels too overwhelming?
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
2,958
I get that it's hard to give up a lot of different foods you enjoy, and that eating plant based can be more challenging if you have a nut allergy - but does the suffering/ slaughter of the animals not bother you? or is it something that bothers you but giving up those foods feels too overwhelming?
Suffering is something that's inevitable in life. Along with that, me being vegan isn't going to magically stop other animals from being mistreated. I personally don't really want to have cut out a large portion of foods from my diet when it probably wouldn't even do shit to change anything anyway.
 
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mrpeter

mrpeter

Experienced
Jun 11, 2024
237
I get that it's hard to give up a lot of different foods you enjoy, and that eating plant based can be more challenging if you have a nut allergy - but does the suffering/ slaughter of the animals not bother you? or is it something that bothers you but giving up those foods feels too overwhelming?
the animal is already dead so idgaf you can't hurt somethings thats already dead
 
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Myforevercharlie

Myforevercharlie

Global Mod
Feb 13, 2020
3,008
Suffering is something that's inevitable in life. Along with that, me being vegan isn't going to magically stop other animals from being mistreated. I personally don't really want to have cut out a large portion of foods from my diet when it probably wouldn't even do shit to change anything anyway.
Same.
 
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_AllCatsAreGrey_

_AllCatsAreGrey_

(they/he)
Mar 4, 2024
507
I was a strict vegetarian, although not vegan, for over a decade. I get your concern about the suffering of animals. That was my concern also. I was vegetarian for religious reasons. Karma, reincarnation, and all that. (I don't currently believe in these things.)

After I left that phase of my life, I became less strict. I got tired of always checking ingredients and rejecting food offered to me. I suppose I have also become less idealistic about it. I don't feel that changing my diet actually and practically reduces the harm done animals. If I chose to not eat a burger, a cow will still be killed.
 
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EternalShore

EternalShore

Hardworking Lass who Dreams of Love~ 💕✨
Jun 9, 2023
927
I hate food. I'd never eat again if I didn't have to. I don't need to make my life more miserable than it already is in that department~ >_< It should also be noted that I exclusively drink milk, and salami and co-jack cheese comprise like 50% of everything I've eaten in my entire life.
 
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R

rozeske

Maybe I am the problem
Dec 2, 2023
3,647
Food is the only thing that gives me pleasure and joy these days and the majority of that isn't vegan. I've also noticed when I deprive myself of it for long, it seriously makes me more suicidal, like seriously, and there isn't much wiggle room for the intensity of my suicidality right now but vegan food does that to me.
 
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P

Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
10,947
I like all kinds of food and I also don't wanna make my life more difficult by restricting my diet than it already is. A balanced (and healthy) diet is the best imo. I second what @Dr Iron Arc @EvisceratedJester @Myforevercharlie @_AllCatsAreGrey_ @rozeske already said.

but does the suffering/ slaughter of the animals not bother you?
I don't want to derail the thread but this is a serious question and so far, I never got a satisfying answer from a vegan.

Do vegans who have pets - like cats and dogs (and other animals that mainly eat meat) - think that the meat (the animals) that have to be slaughtered for the food of their pets don't have to suffer?

An answer like "cats and dogs can't be vegan by nature" isn't satisfying bc most of these animals are produced and raised to be sold to and kept by people.
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,938
I've been vegetarian for a few years now. For me, it's mostly lazyness if I'm honest to not go fully vegan. I don't have a particularly good diet. If I cut out milk and eggs, I think I'd end up just not really bothering with protein.

How do you manage- may I ask? What do you eat for protein? Do you cook and spend time preparing meals? Would you say you were healthy? I'm sure you can be. I just think it takes more effort.

I've definitely noticed certain things. I got headaches a lot until I started taking iron supplements. I've just ended up taking a lot of supplements to be honest. Not healthy but, seems better than not taking them at all.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
20,751
but does the suffering/ slaughter of the animals not bother you? or is it something that bothers you but giving up those foods feels too overwhelming?
It genuinely doesn't bother me at all but then again I'm an evil person anyway. Food just happens to taste better to me if someone or something involved suffered along the way. I've had Impossible or Beyond meat before but while they taste alright, I honestly found them even tastier when combining them with meat.
 
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Downdraft

Downdraft

I've felt better ngl
Feb 6, 2024
634
Maybe the simple fact I don't want to:

  • Expose myself to illnesses from lack of meat
  • Expose myself to higher risk of depression
  • Pay more for shittier food
  • Deviate welfare discussions from improving farms instead of outright abolishing them
  • Crops use animal products in virtually every case, so even if the diet wasn't so flawed you still contribute nothing.
You can read here about that. Skip the philosophical part tho, it's strawmen and overall utter BS. The rest is pretty good.

I'm openly against veganism and don't hide from it. Not only it brings nothing to the table, iy's bad for your health and has a serious enough chance to fuck your body up irreversibly.
 
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J

jar-baby

Arcanist
Jun 20, 2023
485
For me it is a largely a lack of willpower. I'm dependent on my parents and eat what they eat, and though I could simply make my own meals every day, I genuinely don't have the energy for that. Certainly not an excuse, but that's why.

It's also worth mentioning I don't think death is intrinsically bad; I think if animals live healthy lives and are slaughtered humanely no harm is done, or at least, any potential cost will be outweighed by the benefits. Unfortunately, most meat comes from factory farms, so eating meat is probably unethical is most scenarios, since culinary pleasure most likely does not occur on a scale that outweighs the essential torture that factory farmed animals go through.

That said, I don't really understand some of the reasons given in this thread. Sure, when you're at the store deciding whether to buy meat or not, the animal you're potentially going to eat is already dead, but every person who reduces their meat consumption has an impact, however minuscule, on the level of meat production in the world, and those minuscule impacts add up. Animal suffering and suffering in the world, in general, exists on a continuum. It's obvious that going vegan/eating ethically sourced meat won't lead to the total elimination of suffering but it's equally obvious that it would reduce it to some measure, which is why some people bother at all.

I'm not trying to be sanctimonious; I can't, because as mentioned, I do eat meat. It just bothers me that so many arguments against veganism seem so illogical. I think vegans generally have the moral high ground and it's annoyed me in the past to see them being nutpicked or memed (especially when the punchline is just something about how great bacon tastes). I think it's at least partially because of the cognitive dissonance it creates, especially for people who think life has intrinsic value, like most outside of this site.

Other points:

I find it hard to believe that the existence of crop deaths implies that vegans are implicitly hurting animals more than meat-eaters, considering that both meat-eaters and livestock also eat said crops.

Not all animals are equal. Consider cows and chickens, for instance. Not only does the average chicken live in worse conditions than the average cow, but chickens are much smaller than cows. That is, some amount of cooked chicken is the result of more suffering than the same amount of cooked beef. For similar reasons, eating eggs causes more suffering than eating a similar amount of dairy. And as iterated before, considering animal suffering is a continuum, I think it makes sense to choose to eat meat that has suffered less, so to speak.


Since animal suffering exists on a continuum I also don't understand why eating meat is typically conceived of as a dichotomy; reducing one's meat consumption even by, say, 50%, would naturally have some impact.

I can certainly accept that for some people, it's simply not viable from a health point of view to cut out meat from one's diet. I do find it hard to believe that this applies to everyone considering the availability of vitamin supplements and other protein sources in most developed places and the fact that plenty of vegans do exist. But I'd stand to be corrected there.

Do vegans who have pets - like cats and dogs (and other animals that mainly eat meat) - think that the meat (the animals) that have to be slaughtered for the food of their pets don't have to suffer?

An answer like "cats and dogs can't be vegan by nature" isn't satisfying bc most of these animals are produced and raised to be sold to and kept by people.
I have heard vegans say that it's not ethical to breed obligate carnivores (like cats) since this would lead to more livestock suffering as you say. I'm inclined to think similarly. But realistically, cats and dogs already exist—plenty of pets are rescues/adoptees—and arguably unlike humans, they do need to eat meat (cats, certainly... I'm not so sure what the deal is with dogs).
 
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ijustwishtodie

ijustwishtodie

death will be my ultimate bliss
Oct 29, 2023
4,314
Because I don't really think that being a vegan would have an impact on anything and because it'd be super, super annoying to try and convince my parents that I'm vegan (especially due to how they are muslims and have eid once a year dedicated to killing an animal for its meat and making the entire family eat said meat). Additionally, I've noticed that I'm more selfish and more self serving as I only really tend to consider my own suffering for the most part.

Yes, animal suffering sucks and it really does suck to see how animals get treated like (perhaps I'd care more if I saw a video of what goes on in a slaughter house) but I don't really have an impact on that. I think of it as analogous to the right to die or anti work where, whilst these things are good to believe in, it won't ever be implemented in society no matter how much activism you do merely because the power increases with numbers and there are many, many, many, many people who justify wage slavery or prolonging life as long as possible or eating meat. In this world, you really are expendable and your efforts are negligible. I wish that it wasn't this way and that there was a better alternative, I really do, but there unfortunately isn't. If there was a magical red button that instantaneously ends all sentience and thus all suffering, I'd press that button but life isn't that generous and we really have negligible impact on the suffering that occurs within the entire planet.

That said, I do respect anybody who is vegan due to acknowledging suffering that the animals experience. You guys have way more empathy and kindness than I ever could so I just want to say thank you
 
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Downdraft

Downdraft

I've felt better ngl
Feb 6, 2024
634
I do find it hard to believe that this applies to everyone considering the availability of vitamin supplements and other protein sources in most developed places and the fact that plenty of vegans do exist.
20% of people who return to meat for health don't get it fully back.

I find it funny how vegan defenders think you just get a magic diagnosis like something ordinary, when in truth they usually don't appear until you already fell for it.
 
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avoid

avoid

⦿ ⦿
Jul 31, 2023
256
Nothing prevents me from becoming a Vegan. Becoming a Vegan for moral reasons just doesn't appeal to me. Perhaps one day I will approach vegetarianism purely because I love eating vegetables. I certainly don't mind replacing certain meats with mushrooms in recipes. But I don't plan on outright depriving myself of food options for the sake of an ideology or calming a guilty conscious. My diet strikes a balance between health, cost and pleasure (gastronomy).
 
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vampire2002

vampire2002

weeb & neet ♡
Oct 8, 2023
103
i'm a vegetarian and have been for 8 years, but personally, i don't think any life is more valuable than any other life, be it plant, animal, or human. to sustain your life, you have to take life. unless you can afford to eat entirely synthetic lab food or something.
not claiming i don't have biases, obviously there are lives i value more than others, i don't cry when i kill a bug, but i think in an objective sense, that bug's life is worth the same amount as any other. some plants are believed to feel pain too.
in my eyes, it's better to be more respectful towards all living things and be grateful that they gave their life to extend yours. although i am absolutely against the current state of the meat and dairy industry and think that needs to be completely reworked because it's horrifying.
also, for those with eating disorders, going vegan is generally a very bad idea, although i'm not recovering anymore.
 
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lamargue

lamargue

sleepwalker
Jun 5, 2024
535
i just don't care enough to. it would also be self-contradictory for me to do so, given how i'm one who seldom metes out moralistic pash in the first place
 

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