I think cosmetic surgery should be free for “ugly” people

[Bunnymmm]

Lookism and how pretty you are affects your entire life and outcomes. I think that insurance should cover necessary surgeries to help us ugly people. I have seen too many kitchencels posts to think otherwise.

 

[rotthjärta]

Man, fuck i wish it was like that.

 

[blood...]

i understand what you mean by wanting that
but how should they be able to judge if said person is to be labeled as 'ugly'?

 

[extremelyugly]

Oh how I wish. But there is one issue sadly and it's why it's never going to happen: who is considered objectively ugly? I mean, I know firsthand that I am considered hideous but I don't have "proof", like actual evidence that I could show up with and say "see, I'm considered unanimously as ugly, so I must be given all surgeries needed". It's why there's never going to be any other realistic way out of this hell for me other than CTB. I wish I knew which method though... it's very hard here.

 

[Lamentice]

Lookism and how pretty you are affects your entire life and outcomes. I think that insurance should cover necessary surgeries to help us ugly people. I have seen too many kitchencels posts to think otherwise.

I mean.. then it kind of has to be free for everyone? Cause attractiveness is subjective to a degree even if you're rating it based on a scale of conventional standards. And what about the people with extreme body dysmorphia, who are convinced they are "ugly" but have completely warped perceptions of themselves, what would be the approach?

This is kind of a can of worms. You'd have to start medicalizing ugliness & categorizing it as a disability, and then beauty standards are so influenced by racism & sexism & pedophilia that this could be the launching pad for even more severe discrimination and even broader normalizing of discriminatory behvaior, and then policy starts changing to reflect culture.. and then what, does anyone who hasn't had their surgeries yet get denied service at stores and restaurants, maybe aren't even allowed in public at all? It really could get that severe, humans have done that shit before. I imagine the standard for beauty would also only get more extreme, since surgery would be more accessible, and then the agendas that corporations and governments and religions could push would be even more wildly out of control than they already are; I'm imaging something like The Capitol in the Hunger Games.

Humans are cruel, I see your intent, but humans only manage to take potential and twist and warp it into the most self-consuming, sadistic, devastating distaster you've ever seen, every time. Any idea you have that could ever be used for good.. think of the most absurd and gruesome way to pervert it, borderline pure fiction--that's what humans are more likely to do with the idea.

 

[Leonard_Bangley39]

i would agree if cosmetic surgery didnt almost always make people look horrifically uncanny. id rather look like a 5 than a plastic nightmare

 

[violetforever]

i just imagine someone not being aware or thinking of themselves as "ugly" and finding out they supposedly are when theyre told they qualify for plastic surgery

 

[makebelieve]

Yes.

 

[Al_stargate]

Plastic surgery is a scam, you'll almost certainly end up botched to some degree and look weird. I understand insecurities but it's not the answer. Some things can be adressed naturally, like understanding facial bones anatomy and how that can be influenced thought mewing, proper posture, and certain suture techniques. There is also face yoga and just being lean and healthy. I feel bad for anyone thinking plastic surgery is solution because they are usually just gonna make things way worse. Don't mess with you face, you gonna turn yourself into a freak. When we focus on something very much, our perception gets distorted. Aethetics are subjective. Even the best looking people can be insecure because they convinced themselves that some feature they have is undesirable or could be better. If you can't achieve it through gentle natural techniques, don't bother with it. Accept it or you'll likely ruin your face with surgery and feel million times worse. Feeling botched feels unimaginably worse then insecure.

 

[extremelyugly]

Plastic surgery is a scam, you'll almost certainly end up botched to some degree and look weird. I understand insecurities but it's not the answer. Some things can be adressed naturally, like understanding facial bones anatomy and how that can be influenced thought mewing, proper posture, and certain suture techniques. There is also face yoga and just being lean and healthy. I feel bad for anyone thinking plastic surgery is solution because they are usually just gonna make things way worse. Don't mess with you face, you gonna turn yourself into a freak. When we focus on something very much, our perception gets distorted. Aethetics are subjective. Even the best looking people can be insecure because they convinced themselves that some feature they have is undesirable or could be better. If you can't achieve it through gentle natural techniques, don't bother with it. Accept it or you'll likely ruin your face with surgery and feel million times worse. Feeling botched feels unimaginably worse then insecure.

I don't disagree that some people get surgery not because they're ugly but because of real BDD, and because of this I don't disagree that sometimes surgery ends up looking worse than before. But no, this "aesthetics is subjective" is literally not true, or not in an absolute sense. Attractiveness is... mostly objective really, otherwise most people wouldn't be attracted to mostly the same genetic markers and most importantly lookism wouldn't exist (and neither both Halo and Horns effects).

Also, surgery can end up looking worse, but the keyword here is CAN. For some people, surgery would literally improve our faces because we have obvious deformities or asymmetries that make our looks be in the far end of ugliness, objectively (that is, for the inmense majority of people). Why do I say it would literally improve our faces? because we're extremely ugly, so it's very unlikely we would end up being worse, unless they basically butcher us which is frankly a minuscule chance (except if you go to a black market surgeon idk). So, if the bad looks truly exist and are not part of BDD, then no, surgery is not a scam. It's the only way of being treated as a human being, because lookism doesn't just affect dating or quick sex, it also affects job interviews, being treated as a human with basic decency, having friends, basically let's be honest, living.

But yes, it could be the wrong choice for some people, that's for sure.

 

[Al_stargate]

I don't disagree that some people get surgery not because they're ugly but because of real BDD, and because of this I don't disagree that sometimes surgery ends up looking worse than before. But no, this "aesthetics is subjective" is literally not true, or not in an absolute sense. Attractiveness is... mostly objective really, otherwise most people wouldn't be attracted to mostly the same genetic markers and most importantly lookism wouldn't exist (and neither both Halo and Horns effects).

Also, surgery can end up looking worse, but the keyword here is CAN. For some people, surgery would literally improve our faces because we have obvious deformities or asymmetries that make our looks be in the far end of ugliness, objectively (that is, for the inmense majority of people). Why do I say it would literally improve our faces? because we're extremely ugly, so it's very unlikely we would end up being worse, unless they basically butcher us which is frankly a minuscule chance (except if you go to a black market surgeon idk). So, if the bad looks truly exist and are not part of BDD, then no, surgery is not a scam. It's the only way of being treated as a human being, because lookism doesn't just affect dating or quick sex, it also affects job interviews, being treated as a human with basic decency, having friends, basically let's be honest, living.

But yes, it could be the wrong choice for some people, that's for sure.

Plastic surgery is extremely limited in what it can be achieved. Human face is one of most complex shapes in existance. Mother nature or God made our faces to be recognizable, or to have character and that is something that cannot be understood really. It's like art, you can't really understand it scientifically, like why it all has to be together in certain way for it to work. People that have plastic surgery usually end up looking weird. The uncanny valley look. Technically you can give someone certain features that are considered "perfect" and they end up looking extremely weird, unrecognizable, and the character is wiped out of their face. They look generic and it's impossible to put a finger on it.

Only once a certain feature is wiped out, we see it. What perhaps we perceived as flaw before, we came to understand it was defining feature for us and without it, we look weird. If someone has obvious deformity from accident or whatever, yeah sure you can kinda help it with a scalpel but when it comes to finer things you almost certainly just gonna mess it up. People don't realize that. We fall into the trap of believing doctors and science because we are so amazed in every aspect of life with technological marvels. But mother nature or God is infinitely more complex and face is most complex shape.

In recent times there is new understanding of facial bone anatomy and how it affects looks. I recommend you look into orthotropics and mewing. It became bit of meme now with lookmaxxers but science is real and some real change can be accomplished with getting a stronger and more symetrical face. It made a world of difference for me. Face assimetries are due to poor tongue posture and body posture, or some other health issues. But changing the defining features of your face is just a bad idea. Plastic surgeons are the worst people possible. I had my life ruined because of stupid nosejob because I was insecure about my nose. I became obsessed with it and convinced myself that it was way worse then it really was and some scummy plastic surgeon lied to me and took advantage of my insecuries and ruined my life. Plastic surgery is just beyond stupid. It's like wanting to carve out a statue of David with a hammer. Not gonna happen in a million years. It can help with some obvious deformities but with finer things like nosejobs, facelifts, eyelid surgeries, fillers etc, it almost always looks unnatural and weird. And people dont realize that before they made that decision. Bad outcome can completely wreck someone mentally. Botched is million times worse then insecure. Plastic surgery for most part should be banned. It's a devil almost everyone falls for, because there is no equivalent in life. You mess it up once and it's done, you can't come back from it. Your face is most important thing you have in life. It's what makes you. If you can't fix it naturally without surgery, accept it, no other way.

 

[extremelyugly]

I understand if some garbage surgeon screwed you. It's definitely something that happens, for example look at the actress Erin Moriarty, she was definitely not in need for surgery in my opinion of course, and she probably could've not done it if the doctors told her she didn't need her but obviously money speaks louder; of course this is in my ignorance of her case and any of her mental concept of herself, plus everyone can do what they want with their appearance, but still.
But I still think that when done right, it could make all the difference, and plus, don't get me wrong, but for example for me, which I am patently considered hideous, some surgeries are without a doubt not gonna make it worse; again, if done properly. Would I have a rino? No, I don't need it, it's not the cause of my misery; would I have jaw surgery? Definitely, if I see the results beforehand.

Now, I don't know about mewing or orthotropic, I can believe it working for someone who is younger than 20 or 23 or something, but older than that? No.

 

[mawsonia]

I largely agree with this sentiment, and I do want to say although beauty can be pretty subjective, it does have a lot of objective elements to it too, since there's a reason surgeries like rhinoplasties (rhinoplastys?) or implants are popular.
However, there might be some downsides to a policy like this beyond what was already mentioned. Something interesting I remember reading is that even the knowledge that someone did plastic surgery can make them seem less attractive in the eyes of others, by a really significant margin. I mean we can already see it with all those internet posts speculating on whether x celebrity got surgery or not. This might be especially true in terms of this policy since in order to get this surgery, you need to be deemed medically ugly by some authority figure (the government, a doctor, whoever) which would put an even bigger label on people who go through withthese surgeries,
So then like, would that policy really help? People might start emphasizing their desire for "natural beauty" and demanding proof you didn't get plastic surgery or whatever, like seeing earlier pictures of you f.ex. And there might just generally be more suspicion in terms of people and their potential surgery use in general.
Then you'd have to factor in things like recovery times, botches, the fact that the uglier you are the more surgeries you need, which compound the previous two factors, and a lot of other things I'm forgetting.

I don't know, I mean I think this policy would be a net good but I can easily see it going the other way.

 

[enduringwinter]

I think it should be too so what we consider good looks now will become officially low status. I already consider it ugly anyway