Method GasMonkey Setup [Nitrogen SCBA]

[rigbone]

From what I understand, this vendor is using the same photos for all the listing regardless of the model.
I wrote to the vendor to confirm the connection type for this first stage regulator, but they just won't seem to respond back.
Rigbone can confirm, but i think the model number is 4046190. Its the US version.
Also be aware the mask is a separate purchase. There appears to be 2 models shown. The 'P' variety is the one to use.
The 'RA' is a negative pressure one & screws into the mask.
(PM me if you more questions & for more vendor discussion)

Yes, the vendors I have looked at all tend to use the same picture for all of their listings, and it doesn't always match up with what you are actually buying. Correct, the part number is 4046190.

@albstr1403 Tightening the CGA-580-346 adapter to the tank is the only time you will need the wrench. Everything else is hand tightened, or snaps into place without tools.

Sorry for not responding sooner. I have been out for a couple weeks and didn't have computer access. I am still catching up on the posts that I missed.

1) I'd say loosen the straps a good bit...put the mask on, then pull the straps tight. That video by the mask manufacturer, shows how they recommend donning the mask. Chin first, pull on straps, etc. I'd say practice with it, to get the feel.

2) Yeah I think the post is referring to prefilling the regulator and hose line up to the demand valve. That demand valve is the part that fits into the mask port (plugs in). They come with a button that locks & won't let air/gas thru. In its intended use (fire fighting) its so one doesnt waste air while not wearing the mask etc. Practice with it as well.....put on the mask...insert the demand valve (dont attach to tank)....you'll be able to breathe thru it. If it doesnt allow you to breathe thru it, press that lock button (big red one).

3) 80cf is just redundant...its like packing a weeks worth of clothes just for a weekend vacation. Some posters (gas monkey I think) have said that 40cf would work.
These masks & ldv valves let in quite a bit of air (or gas) per inhale breathe. Normal breathes are about 10-15 times per minute.
The air cylinder tanks (for fire fighting) that usually are used in this system are about 4 or 6 L in size. They last for 30-40 minutes. This is about the size of a 40cf cylinder. A 6L cylinder holds about 1600L of air...which is about 57cf...it lasts for 41 minutes (according to manuf website data)
For this scba method, this amount of time is not needed. I think only 5 minutes is needed.

@devils~advocate pretty much covered everything. The only thing I can think of to add is that, in addition to the controls available for adjusting the gas coming in, you can also adjust how much force is needed to push gas out of the mask (talking here about the Dräger FPS 7000 P EPDM mask. I'm not sure about the other Draeger mask models).

Open up the exhalation valve cover by pressing in on both sides and pulling out



Now pull out the red exhalation valve spring by gently unseating both of it's hinges and pulling it out. You will see a fine metal spring that has some of it's turns fastened into the red plastic. The more turns of the spring you fasten down, the less spring pressure there will be on the exhalation valve, making it easier to exhale while wearing the mask.

 

[devils~advocate]

Good information explaining how this works on the mask. I wasnt aware of the correct procedure to do this.
Is there a manual or videos that explains this and other operations dealing with the mask & the scba system?

 

[albstr1403]

Yes, the vendors I have looked at all tend to use the same picture for all of their listings, and it doesn't always match up with what you are actually buying. Correct, the part number is 4046190.

@albstr1403 Tightening the CGA-580-346 adapter to the tank is the only time you will need the wrench. Everything else is hand tightened, or snaps into place without tools.

Sorry for not responding sooner. I have been out for a couple weeks and didn't have computer access. I am still catching up on the posts that I missed.

@devils~advocate pretty much covered everything. The only thing I can think of to add is that, in addition to the controls available for adjusting the gas coming in, you can also adjust how much force is needed to push gas out of the mask (talking here about the Dräger FPS 7000 P EPDM mask. I'm not sure about the other Draeger mask models).

Open up the exhalation valve cover by pressing in on both sides and pulling out

View attachment 142806

Now pull out the red exhalation valve spring by gently unseating both of it's hinges and pulling it out. You will see a fine metal spring that has some of it's turns fastened into the red plastic. The more turns of the spring you fasten down, the less spring pressure there will be on the exhalation valve, making it easier to exhale while wearing the mask.

View attachment 142807

Thanks!

 

[rigbone]

Good information explaining how this works on the mask. I wasnt aware of the correct procedure to do this.
Is there a manual or videos that explains this and other operations dealing with the mask & the scba system?

I got this info from the following post:

Exit bag and inert gas megathread

It would be better to use the regulator with the gas that it is designed/calibrated to work with, that's for sure. 😆 You guys like to do weird combinations. :pfff: I think you're totally right, would def. be better to use the designated gas. However I did research on the serious seller...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Not A Fan]

I am looking at these SCBA masks on a popular auction site, and I can't seem to understand the price differences. Most of these are used but prices range from $20 to $500 for the same model FPS7000, despite all being in the same condition and coming with the same parts.

Anyone know why the pricing is so all over the place?

 

[rigbone]

I gave up on buying at auction. I tried once on what was listed as a new mask, but received a package that had obviously been opened and re-packaged.

 

[Not A Fan]

I gave up on buying at auction. I tried once on what was listed as a new mask, but received a package that had obviously been opened and re-packaged.

Is there any particular concern with using one that had been opened? Is there anyway to verify the integrity of the seal or do you think the only safe way to go is wait until someone offers a new one for sale.. at some undetermined future date..

It doesn't seem like new ones are readily stocked anywhere for individual purpose, or perhaps I need to dig deeper. So far my impression has been that you can only get one by being in the right (internet) place at the right time. Edit: did find a couple sites selling them new; they're out there. $2300+ just for the mask and regulator valve new.

I have found one masks used by GasMonkey, and it says "open box, never used." And USPS shipping (finally). $150. But still cant order yet... Edit: I guess this is the wrong mask. FPS 7000 but the part number is wrong and it seems to have a different connector, not the "P" connector required.


Signing up for a PO Box. Not as simple as it sounds; you must first pay $90 online, then go wait in line at the post office to bring your photo ID (address must match the required home address), AND a car insurance/registration paper with your address; you must print out 2 different forms. I like how they non-refundably take your money before they have a chance to verify your ID docs are valid... very classy! Whatever... just glad to finally have made a tiny bit of progress then. Probably shouldn't have wasted money on the PO Box I guess.

Man this is getting like... really frustrating. No wonder people just end up shooting themselves. For fucks sake.

 

[Not A Fan]

@rigbone

Hey, I know you got your helmet separately and I've been trying to reproduce the set-up exactly but can't seen to find the correct combination of items.

There is a PAS Lite listed which includes the helmet, the demand valve, and the pressure gauge all-in-one. I don't think the helmet is FPS 7000 but it looks similar enough and the rest of the setup is the same as yours. Unfortunately because it is a secondhand seller it doesn't have the full detailed information but if I'm not mistaken there a number of different SCBA masks and hardware that can be used to accomplish the same task. The main issue is with everything lining up.

So it seems like if the mask, LDV regulator, pressure gauge, and rubber tubing are sold together then the only other essentials would be the n2 cylinder and the specialty adapter. I guess I will just order it try to make it do something...

Spoiler: pas lite + mask combo, used condition.

 

[rigbone]

Good information explaining how this works on the mask. I wasnt aware of the correct procedure to do this.
Is there a manual or videos that explains this and other operations dealing with the mask & the scba system?

Kinda tricky to find manuals from Drager, but some products have a downloads section that contains the manual. For example:

- https://www.draeger.com/en-us_us/Products/PAS-Lite#download
- https://www.draeger.com/en-us_us/Products/FPS-7000#download

 

[rigbone]

@rigbone

Hey, I know you got your helmet separately and I've been trying to reproduce the set-up exactly but can't seen to find the correct combination of items.

There is a PAS Lite listed which includes the helmet, the demand valve, and the pressure gauge all-in-one. I don't think the helmet is FPS 7000 but it looks similar enough and the rest of the setup is the same as yours. Unfortunately because it is a secondhand seller it doesn't have the full detailed information but if I'm not mistaken there a number of different SCBA masks and hardware that can be used to accomplish the same task. The main issue is with everything lining up.

So it seems like if the mask, LDV regulator, pressure gauge, and rubber tubing are sold together then the only other essentials would be the n2 cylinder and the specialty adapter. I guess I will just order it try to make it do something...

Spoiler: pas lite + mask combo, used condition.

View attachment 145619

Agreed, if all is sold as a unit then interoperability between those components should not be a problem. Just need to be sure that the connection to the tank is a female CGA-346 connector. Also, if it's important to you, I would confirm that the LDV uses positive pressure.

 

[devils~advocate]

@rigbone

Hey, I know you got your helmet separately and I've been trying to reproduce the set-up exactly but can't seen to find the correct combination of items.

There is a PAS Lite listed which includes the helmet, the demand valve, and the pressure gauge all-in-one. I don't think the helmet is FPS 7000 but it looks similar enough and the rest of the setup is the same as yours. Unfortunately because it is a secondhand seller it doesn't have the full detailed information but if I'm not mistaken there a number of different SCBA masks and hardware that can be used to accomplish the same task. The main issue is with everything lining up.

So it seems like if the mask, LDV regulator, pressure gauge, and rubber tubing are sold together then the only other essentials would be the n2 cylinder and the specialty adapter. I guess I will just order it try to make it do something...

I see that listing...but the model number is 3359023
Im not sure what this is....Ive searched for it with no results. The mask looks like it is the Panoramic model, which is fine.
Should be positive pressure, most are,...LDV plugs in. Negative ones are rare & I think the LDV screws in.
Whats odd is it have a blue button on the LDV...the manuals say blue is for negative pressure.....But Rigbone has one just like this (?) and it is negative pressure (?)

It does appear to have the cga-346 connection (black hand wheel)
The cga-347 (blue wheel) type would work as well. I know some have mentioned not finding adapters for it....but there is an adapter for it. Its two parts.

Used parts are fine. I have used parts. The only issue I had was that I could not get one of the LDVs to work properly. It looks similar to the one listed...it has that small adjustment knob on the side of the LDV. The other LDVs I have, just have a button on top.

 

[Not A Fan]

Agreed, if all is sold as a unit then interoperability between those components should not be a problem. Just need to be sure that the connection to the tank is a female CGA-346 connector. Also, if it's important to you, I would confirm that the LDV uses positive pressure.

I see that listing...but the model number is 3359023
Im not sure what this is....Ive searched for it with no results. The mask looks like it is the Panoramic model, which is fine.
Should be positive pressure, most are,...LDV plugs in. Negative ones are rare & I think the LDV screws in.
Whats odd is it have a blue button on the LDV...the manuals say blue is for negative pressure.....But Rigbone has one just like this (?) and it is negative pressure (?)

It does appear to have the cga-346 connection (black hand wheel)
The cga-347 (blue wheel) type would work as well. I know some have mentioned not finding adapters for it....but there is an adapter for it. Its two parts.

This is what the connector looks like? It resembles the other ones I've seen on this thread. But I would judge this are being a "male"... is it, or am I looking at the thing wrong? At this point I will just order the thing, positive or negative pressure should still work either way.

Weird thing with the part numbers. There are 3 different part numbers on different parts of the harness:
3359023 (back)
3358269 (back)
3358273 (front)

The seller doesn't specify the size of the mask. I have no idea what size would be appropriate anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

I do apologize for all these questions, somehow I am probably making this way more complicated than it needs to be. I appreciate the help.

 

[devils~advocate]

This is what the connector looks like? It resembles the other ones I've seen on this thread. But I would judge this are being a "male"... is it, or am I looking at the thing wrong? At this point I will just order the thing, positive or negative pressure should still work either way.

The seller doesn't specify the size of the mask. I have no idea what size would be appropriate anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

I do apologize for all these questions, somehow I am probably making this way more complicated than it needs to be. I appreciate the help.

View attachment 145673

Glad to converse about this. Im learning new things all the time. Ask as many questions as you want.

There are threads on the inside (if you zoom in enough). It is a female connection. And I would guess its the cga-346 thread type (black wheel).
The 346 types are the low pressure variety (2216 psi). The 347 are the higher pressure (4000 psi). They are the same threads except the 347 is slightly longer.
I have both kinds and thats the only difference I found.
Then as you are aware, this 'reducer' connects to the adapter, which in turn connects to the gas cylinder. (cga-346 to 580 adapter)
There is a single part adapter available for the 346. There is also an adapter for the 347...its just two parts, which is fine.
(I can post what I have found if anyone is interested)

The mask looks like the Panoramic model. This is fine & will work. I would think this is at least a medium size....straps are used to tighten it up anyway.
Why the manuf has different models of masks is beyond me.
I think the 7000 model is the one that can have electronics (heads up display) inside it that can show air tank levels etc and I think one can install a microphone as well. But Im not sure if that is the difference or not.

It seems that the documentation is either hard to find or buried in manuals on what these different models do, how they differ, etc.
(If you find any information, please let everyone be aware. I am trying to put together a tutorial on this method & any information is good to have.)

 

[rigbone]

I see that listing...but the model number is 3359023
Im not sure what this is....Ive searched for it with no results. The mask looks like it is the Panoramic model, which is fine.
Should be positive pressure, most are,...LDV plugs in. Negative ones are rare & I think the LDV screws in.
Whats odd is it have a blue button on the LDV...the manuals say blue is for negative pressure.....But Rigbone has one just like this (?) and it is negative pressure (?)

It does appear to have the cga-346 connection (black hand wheel)
The cga-347 (blue wheel) type would work as well. I know some have mentioned not finding adapters for it....but there is an adapter for it. Its two parts.

Used parts are fine. I have used parts. The only issue I had was that I could not get one of the LDVs to work properly. It looks similar to the one listed...it has that small adjustment knob on the side of the LDV. The other LDVs I have, just have a button on top.

Yea, I was confused by the button colors not matching up. Ultimately, I had to rely on the assurance of the vendor that it was positive pressure.

 

[devils~advocate]

Yea, I was confused by the button colors not matching up. Ultimately, I had to rely on the assurance of the vendor that it was positive pressure.

Rigbone you got the PN 4046190 model, correct?

 

[rigbone]

Rigbone you got the PN 4046190 model, correct?

Correct.

Dräger PAS Lite – 2216 PSI - PN 4046190

 

[justanotherdaynow]

GasMonkey Setup
[Nitrogen SCBA]
Positive Pressure Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus

**images have been edited to ensure anonymity**
​

Front view

Side view

Back view

Pressure gauge

Lung Demand Valve and Mask

Bluetooth pulse oximeter

Cylinder attachment

Cylinder's connection (DIN 477-1 Nr. 10)

Air-to-Nitrogen adapter, DIN 477-1 No. 10 (W24.32) to DIN 477-1 No. 13 (G5/8").
This will be connected to the Nitrogen cylinder to be able to connect Air regulators.

Measurement of the adapter's width

Measurement of the regulator's width (more than enough to receive the adapter)

32mm spanner, the only tool needed

Flow restrictor for gas purity testing

O₂ testing
**brands have not been removed because this can't be used to CTB, just to test the purity of a gas**

CO₂ testing

Tablet data, on-the-fly monitoring of: Time, O₂ saturation and heart rate

Would you be willing to help me with this method?

 

[Samovypil]

I bought SCBA, found a company that will fill my oxygen tank with nitrogen, but they can only fill my tank (6 liters of nitrogen) at 150 atmospheres (150 bar), look for a company that can fill at 300 atmospheres (300 bar). I've practiced, figured out how it works and tested the SCBA, can you tell me if there's anything I may have overlooked? No modifications are required? When breathing in, the mask exhales easily, but the inhalation is with a little bit of effort.
I plan to tape only the low pressure whistle.

Sorry for my English, I am from Ukraine and use a translator.

 

[youareforgiven]

Hi,

Does anybody know where to buy that flow restrictor + gauge meter that Gasmonkey uses? I can find everything else except that… can PM me if you want.

 

[youareforgiven]

I bought SCBA, found a company that will fill my oxygen tank with nitrogen, but they can only fill my tank (6 liters of nitrogen) at 150 atmospheres (150 bar), look for a company that can fill at 300 atmospheres (300 bar). I've practiced, figured out how it works and tested the SCBA, can you tell me if there's anything I may have overlooked? No modifications are required? When breathing in, the mask exhales easily, but the inhalation is with a little bit of effort.
I plan to tape only the low pressure whistle.

Sorry for my English, I am from Ukraine and use a translator.

Hi,

How did you find that flow restrictor? I don't find a double one like you and gasmonkey

 

[mrwizard11]

Where can I find a SCBA mask in the US for a Nitrogen setup?