Venting Freedom must always be above.

[lem]

The less the criteria indicate validity, the more conditions you have to meet. I would give the option to everyone, but some could faster. Even a healthy and wealthy person may have access, but for example, for a while, he or she has to go to therapy, take medication or something like that.

What if they don't want your fucking treatments?

 

[Stavrogin]

I am a very liberal person, I do not understand why others impose their morals.

Do you believe Liberals do not seek to impose their morals?

 

[Eren]

Do you believe Liberals do not seek to impose their morals?

The moral of the liberals is not to impose their morals on others. If a liberal imposes his morals through force he is not liberal

 

[Stavrogin]

The moral of the liberals is not to impose their morals on others. If a liberal imposes his morals through force he is not liberal

Please pick up a history book. The only way Liberal values have survived, just like all other values, is through violence of one kind or another.

 

[Eren]

Please pick up a history book. The only way Liberal values have survived, just like all other values, is through violence of one kind or another.

Tell me an example

 

[lostangel]

I wish we could live in a sensible world that isn't poisoned with greed.

 

[Alec]

I completely agree with you and this is the way I always saw it too. I was always astonished and repulsed by in how many ways(including the one you described) the society takes our freedom away in.

 

[Stavrogin]

Tell me an example

The French Revolution. Nationalism is also an historically Liberal idea.

 

[Eren]

The French Revolution. Nationalism is also an historically Liberal idea.

Nationalism... Lol

 

[Stavrogin]

Nationalism... Lol

I'm speaking of Liberalism within its historical context, not some made up candy floss romanticism. Read the necessary literature - searching Google is good enough if you put in the effort.

 

[Eren]

I'm speaking of Liberalism within its historical context, not some made up candy floss romanticism. Read the necessary literature - searching Google is good enough if you put in the effort.

If we talk about history, for example liberals (or libertarians) were the first to defend, for example, the rights of homosexual people. Meanwhile right and left judged him harshly

 

[esse_est_percipi]

more than David Goodall did, who got an easy death

Yes, he wasn't even seriously ill.
But because of his status, finances and age, he was allowed to peacefully pass on.
While the poor slaves who have any number of illnesses have to just suffer because they are too young and lack money or are deemed 'mentally ill' (as if mental illnesses aren't 'real' illnesses). Unfair.

 

[Stavrogin]

If we talk about history, for example liberals (or libertarians) were the first to defend, for example, the rights of homosexual people. Meanwhile right and left judged him harshly

Can you address the point about 'imposing morals'?

 

[Eren]

Can you address the point about 'imposing morals'?

is what I'm talking about, when right and left used the force of the state to repress those people for their sexual orientation, libertarians defended their freedom

 

[Stavrogin]

is what I'm talking about, when right and left used the force of the state to repress those people for their sexual orientation, libertarians defended their freedom

Okay... Is there an example within history when there is a State, Liberal or otherwise, that does not have to impose itself violently in any way in order to ensure its survival?

 

[Eren]

Okay... Is there an example within history when there is a State, Liberal or otherwise, that does not have to impose itself violently in any way in order to ensure its survival?

No, the state is always violent, although some more and others less.

 

[Stavrogin]

No, the state is always violent, although some more and others less.

Thank you.

 

[Eren]

Thank you.

liberalism seeks to reduce the power of the state as much as possible, and increase the freedom of each person

 

[Stavrogin]

liberalism seeks to reduce the power of the state as much as possible, and increase the freedom of each person

Can you give me an example of Liberalism operating outside of the 'State' apparatus? Nonetheless, a state enforces moral principals.

 

[melp]

No, the state is always violent, although some more and others less.

There is also a problem here. Let us give people freedom and a small group of people is able, for example, to poison a large part of the earth or even more destroy the ozone layer.

The really correct one for me is this: the state is supposed to protect me from appropriating my freedom. Only this requires a greater intellect than humans have. Simple tricks cause us to deviate from supporting the idea of a not too oppressive state.

 

[Eren]

Can you give me an example of Liberalism operating outside of the 'State' apparatus? Nonetheless, a state enforces moral principals.

The state exists in all the countries of the world, but the freest countries are those where the state gets less into the life of the individual.

 

[Stavrogin]

The state exists in all the countries of the world, but the freest countries are those where the state gets less into the life of the individual.

And do those countries 'impose their morals'?

 

[Eren]

And do those countries 'impose their morals'?

yes, but much less than the less free countries.

 

[Stavrogin]

yes, but much less than the less free countries.

So why is it you 'don't understand why others impose their morals'? They impose them because they believe them to be 'True', just like yourself.

 

[Eren]

So why is it you 'don't understand why others impose their morals'? They impose them because they believe them to be 'True', just like yourself.

??

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

It's incredible how people are disconected from reality on this forum. Maybe because I saw a lot of people recovering or keep trying for me doing such a thing like "legalize" suicide it's crazy. This is not about free will. Majority of people that cbt have problems that can be solved some way or other. It's SAD that we have to go to this extreme because we can't achieve the things we need (money, love, whatever it is). If you cbt because you can't afford a decent life you are not choosing anything, if you cbt because you don't have access to a decente psichologist you aren't choosing anything, if you have a trauma that you cannot overcome you aren't choosing anything, etc. Of course people have to try to prevent it. The goal should be help people with their problems no let them kill themselfs like their lifes don't matter.

Disconnected from reality, or in a Western mindset of liberty and having resources?

What about people in countries rife with poverty, overt oppression, and overt tyranny?

I say this with no harshness, it is a myopic discussion.

 

[Eren]

So why is it you 'don't understand why others impose their morals'? They impose them because they believe them to be 'True', just like yourself.

I do not impose my morals, I do not use the state to repress the lives of others, in fact what liberals aspire to is for the state to repress people less

 

[cyberlordsumit]

So why is it you 'don't understand why others impose their morals'? They impose them because they believe them to be 'True', just like yourself.

agree with this.
also, this discussion is being had with vague context. Liberalism being discussed is just a mimic of chaos and anarchy. so let's not get into politics and end this convo. please.

 

[Captive of Mind]

Another policy that I think should be put in place would be a waiting period before someone could be approved to purchase the N or whatever method they are using to ctb. They should have to wait 2 weeks to a month. This will give them time to find out if that is really what they want instead of being able to act on impulse without thinking it through.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

We should prioritize revolutionizing brain scanning and neuroscience. If we ever reach a point where scientists could read our minds clearly enough to determine whether we objectively need to die or are just acting emotionally, then I think it could pave the way for making assisted suicide more legal. Then again, mind-reading technology is a huge breach of privacy and could also be misused in horrible ways...