For Pro Lifers

[HannahB]

Ok SS family, we seem to be getting a lot of attention from the Pro life community so let's give them what they are seaking, understanding. Why is SS important to you? Why are we here? Pro lifers dont seem to grasp the importance of this site so let's explain it in our own words.

First and foremost I am here for Support.
If your pro life that may be confusing so let me elaborate.
Support- give assistance to, especially financially; enable to function or act.

Now does that mean this website enables me to act out my suicide? No. Not any more or less than it enables me to prevent my suicide. One could argue it gives me all the information I need to avoid suicide or even prevent it in others.

That's the thing about support here it is Unconditional.

There are two kinds of support. Support for the supports sake and support for somthing elses sake. This website deals in the first.

It boils down to two seperate views of existance.

View one: humans seem to be made to reproduce therefore living and reproduction must be the purpose of life.

View two: even with all the information I have I cannot conclude the purpose of existance and therefore should hold my judgements.

The first has conditions which pertain to YOUR OPINION of existance. The second does not place any of my opinions of others therefore I chose the second.

I can sit here all day and point out all the things I know that are 'good' in life but all I am saying is 'I have an opinion of what existence means and your not following it'.

Look around you at existence, how much death do you see? Your hair is dead, your skin, your cloths are dead things, your fridge is packed full of them. Your house is made of dead things your thoughts your coffee your almost everything.

Now for you to say that 'life's is the most and only important thing is insane. 99.999% of everything is dead stuff.
For you to not only ignore that fact but label 99.999% of the universe as 'bad' just points to the fact you've missed somthing. Somthing you must find yourself not something I can tell you. Somthing you can find on this website.... reality.

You may think its important to hide things from your children or from other people for the sake of 'their safety'. But if you dig a little deeper inside yourself you'll realize no matter what you do this person will die eventually. So what am I really trying to save? My own sensibilities? Am I trying to avoid acceptance of reality because it is painfull? And if you go just a little deeper you realize well than are any of my choices actually choices or just my brain avoiding something?

On the face you may believe we are here to die, to avoid something, but if you get to know us you'll see we are doing the exact opposite. We are pioneers of a new direction. Explorers of a new world. We have no abstract convictions that the debts and credits of life do not square up. We seek to find and accept the truth of existance and to do that one must first accept death.

 

[TAW122]

Well said @HannahB, it is very well written and clear to the point. To add to your statements, I would say that for pro-lifers, there is something called 'free will' and freedom of choice. Most pro-lifers do not respect the freedom of choice, especially when it comes to the right to die, choice to die, or what have you. in fact, the right and choice to die is one of the ultimate freedom's an individual can have, more than all the rights allowed in this world (right to protection, free speech, privacy and free from search and seizures, cruel and unusual punishment, etc.). By robbing or taking away that right is one of the most treacherous and gross violations of human rights. All of us deserves a right and freedom of choice of death, including a dignified exit. In fact, by banning assisted suicide, euthanasia, and even forcing people who don't wish to live to live, we are only driving those people underground, and pushing them closer to CTB (when they may not have otherwise CTB'd). Also, when we ban various things for a peaceful death or make reliable means become inaccessible or too costly, we also risk those people using gory, riskier, and/or ugly methods to exit their life. Sometimes those methods may even cause collateral damage (e.g. jumping in front of a train/truck, crashing a vehicle into another's property or public property, etc.)

Also, the other point I want to make is that irony of pro-lifers wanting to impose their will (life) onto the people who don't wish to live is seen as acceptable while pro-death people imposing their will onto those who wish to live are seen as inappropriate (murder, killing, manslaughter, etc.). It's basically intellectually dishonest and also hypocritical that pro-lifers feel the need and duty to impose their will on others but yet when others do that to them, they cry about abuse, oppression, and what not.

Note: I'm not advocating violence, murder, or anything illegal, just giving an interesting perspective.

There is also the subjective value that 'life is good' according to the pro-lifers, (both in the religious and secular spheres. Religious mostly in organized religions and secular ones based on humanism and what not) which is nothing more than their opinions.

Edit: Fixed some grammar/spelling errors.

 

[Grandexit]

Ok SS family, we seem to be getting a lot of attention from the Pro life community so let's give them what they are seaking, understanding. Why is SS important to you? Why are we here? Pro lifers dont seem to grasp the importance of this site so let's explain it in our own words.

First and foremost I am here for Support.
If your pro life that may be confusing so let me elaborate.
Support- give assistance to, especially financially; enable to function or act.

Now does that mean this website enables me to act out my suicide? No. Not any more or less than it enables me to prevent my suicide. One could argue it gives me all the information I need to avoid suicide or even prevent it in others.

That's the thing about support here it is Unconditional.

There are two kinds of support. Support for the supports sake and support for somthing elses sake. This website deals in the first.

It boils down to two seperate views of existance.

View one: humans seem to be made to reproduce therefore living and reproduction must be the purpose of life.

View two: even with all the information I have I cannot conclude the purpose of existance and therefore should hold my judgements.

The first has conditions which pertain to YOUR OPINION of existance. The second does not place any of my opinions of others therefore I chose the second.

I can sit here all day and point out all the things I know that are 'good' in life but all I am saying is 'I have an opinion of what existence means and your not following it'.

Look around you at existence, how much death do you see? Your hair is dead, your skin, your cloths are dead things, your fridge is packed full of them. Your house is made of dead things your thoughts your coffee your almost everything.

Now for you to say that 'life's is the most and only important thing is insane. 99.999% of everything is dead stuff.
For you to not only ignore that fact but label 99.999% of the universe as 'bad' just points to the fact you've missed somthing. Somthing you must find yourself not something I can tell you. Somthing you can find on this website.... reality.

You may think its important to hide things from your children or from other people for the sake of 'their safety'. But if you dig a little deeper inside yourself you'll realize no matter what you do this person will die eventually. So what am I really trying to save? My own sensibilities? Am I trying to avoid acceptance of reality because it is painfull? And if you go just a little deeper you realize well than are any of my choices actually choices or just my brain avoiding something?

On the face you may believe we are here to die, to avoid something, but if you get to know us you'll see we are doing the exact opposite. We are pioneers of a new direction. Explorers of a new world. We have no abstract convictions that the debts and credits of life do not square up. We seek to find and accept the truth of existance and to do that one must first accept death.

There is no "explaining" or enlightening forced lifers. They don't see any wold outside of their tiny brain-washed bubble. You can give them a mountain of irrefutable, well documented evidence that counters every one of thier narrow, ignorant views and they just keep pressing on.

 

[HannahB]

Well said @HannahB, it is very well written and clear to the point. To add to your statements, I would say that for pro-lifers, there is something called 'free will' and freedom of choice. Most pro-lifers do not respect the freedom of choice, especially when it comes to the right to die, choice to die, or what have you. in fact, the right and choice to die is one of the ultimate freedom's an individual can have, more than all the rights allowed in this world (right to protection, free speech, privacy and free from search and seizures, cruel and unusual punishment, etc.). By robbing or taking away that right is one of the most treacherous and gross violations of human rights. All of us deserves a right and freedom of choice of death, including a dignified exist. In fact, by banning assisted suicide, euthanasia, and even forcing people who don't wish to live to live, we are only driving those people underground, and pushing them closer to CTB (when they may not have otherwise CTB'd). Also, when we ban various things for a peaceful death or make reliable means become inaccessible or too costly, we also risk those people using gory, riskier, and/or ugly methods to exit their life. Sometimes those methods may even cause collateral damage (e.g. jumping in front of a train/truck, crashing a vehicle into another's property or public property, etc.)

Also, the other point I want to make is that irony of pro-lifers wanting to impose their will (life) onto the people who don't wish to live is seen as acceptable while pro-death people imposing their will onto those who wish to live are seen as inappropriate (murder, killing, manslaughter, etc.). It's basically intellectually dishonest and also hypocritical that pro-lifers feel the need and duty to impose their will on others but yet when others do that to them, they cry about abuse, oppression, and what not.

Note: I'm not advocating violence, murder, or anything illegal, just giving an interesting perspective.

There is also the subjective value that 'life is good' according to the pro-lifers, (both in the religious and secular spheres. Religious mostly in organized religions and secular ones based on humanism and what not) which is nothing more than their opinions.

Very well said thank you!!

There is no "explaining" or enlightening forced lifers. They don't see any wold outside of their tiny brain-washed bubble. You can give them a mountain of irrefutable, well documented evidence that counters everyone of thier narrow, ignorant views and the just keep pressing on.

Thay is not the point. They have free will just like us and inevitably they will die just like us. This is about being better than all that shit. This isnt about judging them it's about being truthful about who we are regardless of their views because we have every right to be seen and heard as they do.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

If a person is suffering and they don't see a way to escape their pain then they should be able to have easy access to a painLess death. They should be allowed to hire someone like dr Kervorkian to assist them in suicide. Why are non-human animals deserving of mercy but we human animals are not ? Is that logical? no that's barbaric. They've taken away every painless method of suicide like Nembutal, Fentanyl, dr Kervorkian etc. They won't be happy until we are all 91 with stage 4 colon cancer with pain so extreme that even fentanyl wouldn't be able to counter that pain.

 

[gentleflower]

I think that it is nearly impossible for a pro-lifer to truly understand and comprehend how wanting to CTB really feels like.
I know from personal experience, that no matter how much someone who has never experienced for example depression tries to understand, it simply never works 100%.
I do not think that it necessary to convince a pro-lifer to change his or her opinion. It would be enough, if everyone would just accept that every human being has a free will and the choice to live or not belongs into that catergory for me definiton.

I have came to this forum in the search of real understanding and compassion. In the outside world, I have experienced a lot of pity, something which just makes me feel guilty, and I have not met that here.

 

[HannahB]

I think that it is nearly impossible for a pro-lifer to truly understand and comprehend how wanting to CTB really feels like.
I know from personal experience, that no matter how much someone who has never experienced for example depression tries to understand, it simply never works 100%.
I do not think that it necessary to convince a pro-lifer to change his or her opinion. It would be enough, if everyone would just accept that every human being has a free will and the choice to live or not belongs into that catergory for me definiton.

I have came to this forum in the search of real understanding and compassion. In the outside world, I have experienced a lot of pity, something which just makes me feel guilty, and I have not met that here.

It's very said to me that most suicidal people feel that way. That no one understands everyone pushes them away or places their feeling on them. Maybe this is the most important thing we can express. I'm so glad you found SS I'm glad that you feel you can be honest and accepted at a time when you most need it

 

[Jean4]

Pro lifers. Unless you are sleeping with me, or paying my bills... I am a stranger to you. How dare you tell a stranger what to do with their lives?

Oh. Pro lifers. Since you want to tell me what to do, I have every right to tell you what to do. Get the hell out of my home. Shouldn't you be more concerned about Trump separating children and families and putting them in cages, never to be reunited?

Pro lifers. If you would like to discuss this further, please feel free to write me.

 

[Mm80]

Very articulately explained thank you.
What would be nice if pro lifers u derstood that as a community we are pro choice, not pro suicide. It is pro lifers who are inbalanced and ourselves that look at both directions.
I have not, and never will see anyone on here encouraging others to ctb. In fact i have seen the opposite. When somebody has come across as impulsive i have seen others urge them to slow down and reconsider. In an ironic way, ss may have saved more lives than people think.
If it wasnt for this website, imagine the alternatives. Hospitals full of misinformed overdose patients who wil recover. Hospital beds with people who have made a cry for help due to a lack of unconditional support, which could have been avoided by the support from this site. Also how many desperate impulsive acts would occur causing danger or destruction to others (jumping in front of trains and vehicles, jumping in public areas etc) all because of a lack of support and information on how to end ones life if they wish, with some level of peace and dignity.
This community has the courage to face head on the subject that society is terrified of and wants to ignore and deserves respect.
Thanks

 

[memataporfavor]

This website is so helpful in recovery terms. Pro-lifers only see the pro-choice/resource side. But most of this website is about venting, ppl recovering, unconditional support, people talking about their feelings and thoughts without judgement. Suicidal people here are treated with respect and not patronized as everywhere else. We can talk freely here, that's the most helpful thing for people suffering mentally.

 

[Mm80]

Very articulately explained thank you.
What would be nice if pro lifers u derstood that as a community we are pro choice, not pro suicide. It is pro lifers who are inbalanced and ourselves that look at both directions.
I have not, and never will see anyone on here encouraging others to ctb. In fact i have seen the opposite. When somebody has come across as impulsive i have seen others urge them to slow down and reconsider. In an ironic way, ss may have saved more lives than people think.
If it wasnt for this website, imagine the alternatives. Hospitals full of misinformed overdose patients who wil recover. Hospital beds with people who have made a cry for help due to a lack of unconditional support, which could have been avoided by the support from this site. Also how many desperate impulsive acts would occur causing danger or destruction to others (jumping in front of trains and vehicles, jumping in public areas etc) all because of a lack of support and information on how to end ones life if they wish, with some level of peace and dignity.
This community has the courage to face head on the subject that society is terrified of and wants to ignore and deserves respect.
Thanks

Sorry i couldnt resist this.... also you dont see us going on pro life social media posts , where people are clearly bullshitting about how good their life is. And telling them that life isnt worth living and we cannot understand their optimism. It works both ways.

 

[HannahB]

Sorry i couldnt resist this.... also you dont see us going on pro life social media posts , where people are clearly bullshitting about how good their life is. And telling them that life isnt worth living and we cannot understand their optimism. It works both ways.

Agreed!!

 

[HannahB]

To be fair, discussing suicide methods does carry the risk of people attempting when they otherwise wouldn't. If I've understood correctly, this is why the news doesn't give details on suicide methods used and use nondescriptive language and whatnot. So I do understand the people who would want this site taken down.

Teaching you kid to play will balls runs the risk of them chasing it into the street and getting hit by a car. We don't live to avoid living we dont avoid eating apples because eventually they will be a core. I'm sorry but I disagree with you everything is risky and not knowing about it is even more risky

 

[gentleflower]

To be fair, discussing suicide methods does carry the risk of people attempting when they otherwise wouldn't. If I've understood correctly, this is why the news doesn't give details on suicide methods used and use nondescriptive language and whatnot. So I do understand the people who would want this site taken down.

I have to disagree on that as well.
Before I joined this forum, I had a very definite plan to CTB. But this forum taught me, that my method of choice, was a very poor choice and I have not attempted because of what I have read here.

 

[BPD Barbie]

It's my body, it's my life, its my choice. I fully respect other people's choices and the way they live their life, its not for me to tell anyone what to do when making life altering choices and I don't expect random strangers to tell me. Until someone can take a walk in my shoes, live my life for one day, then nobody can tell me what I can and can't do.

 

[Heart of Ice]

Teaching you kid to play will balls runs the risk of them chasing it into the street and getting hit by a car. We don't live to avoid living we dont avoid eating apples because eventually they will be a core. I'm sorry but I disagree with you everything is risky and not knowing about it is even more risky

I don't agree with this notion either. Freedom of information and whatnot. I'm just trying to understand the reasoning of "prolifers".

I have to disagree on that as well.
Before I joined this forum, I had a very definite plan to CTB. But this forum taught me, that my method of choice, was a very poor choice and I have not attempted because of what I have read here.

Well I was on the fence about trying to commit suicide before I came here. And I don't know if it's my life situation not improving or that I have learned how relatively easy it is to end one's own life due to reading this forum, my decision has only become clearer. The point still stands.

 

[Mm80]

To be fair, discussing suicide methods does carry the risk of people attempting when they otherwise wouldn't. If I've understood correctly, this is why the news doesn't give details on suicide methods used and use nondescriptive language and whatnot. So I do understand the people who would want this site taken down.

To be fair, discussing suicide methods does carry the risk of people attempting when they otherwise wouldn't. If I've understood correctly, this is why the news doesn't give details on suicide methods used and use nondescriptive language and whatnot. So I do understand the people who would want this site taken down.

Its a tough one because i have read the opposite. That talking about suicide opens the subject up and makes many people see perspective and choose otherwise. Many people with depression dont really want to ctb and when presented with the info and hard facts choose otherwise. I believe this community helps people who are crying for help by allowing them to express themselves without judgement, and helps people who are genuinly ready to go by offering tried and tested methods that consider those around and dont take up hospital resources as much.The media are pro life so will never reveal details particularly because the suicides they report on are dramatic, gruesome and sensational, and often affect others around. And others could copy them on impulse without contemplation. But i respect your point.
Thanks

 

[Quarky00]

I'm sorry , I don't speak to brain-washed cult followers

I respect the effort , but they don't want to listen . I'd rather speak to normal people -- the average person on the street -- they really do care about the weak and the abused

Rather than a crusader on a mission ..

 

[Carina]

Message for pro lifers.....
Until there is:
-- Ways to stop all physical pain
-- Ways to stop all disease
-- Ways to stop all suffering
-- No stigma to mental health treatment
-- Free mental health treatment
-- Accessible mental health treatment
-- No fear of being locked up in a hospital, jail, or prison for mental health issues
-- Understanding mental health treatment from professionals
-- Total and complete support systems available to all people
-- No money issues, food issues, housing issues for anyone
-- Literally nothing around that around make anyone depressed

And all of that being at the moment, not a possibility in the future or maybe if you pray really hard maybe you'll get it granted! (no offence to religious)

Don't even think of coming to a website that provides support to people (of whatever they choose) that actually helps them and possibly keeps them alive possibly longer than they thought they would. Because it doesn't take a website to know how to die. Because sometimes just listening and letting someone do what they want is more helpful than anything even trained professionals would ever do--and is definitely more than anything a pro-lifer could ever hope to achieve.

And even if the list was taken care of, it'd still be their choice, so leave them alone.

 

[Mm80]

Message for pro lifers.....
Until there is:
-- Ways to stop all physical pain
-- Ways to stop all disease
-- Ways to stop all suffering
-- No stigma to mental health treatment
-- Free mental health treatment
-- Accessible mental health treatment
-- No fear of being locked up in a hospital, jail, or prison for mental health issues
-- Understanding mental health treatment from professionals
-- Total and complete support systems available to all people
-- No money issues, food issues, housing issues for anyone
-- Literally nothing around that around make anyone depressed

And all of that being at the moment, not a possibility in the future or maybe if you pray really hard maybe you'll get it granted! (no offence to religious)

Don't even think of coming to a website that provides support to people (of whatever they choose) that actually helps them and possibly keeps them alive possibly longer than they thought they would. Because it doesn't take a website to know how to die. Because sometimes just listening and letting someone do what they want is more helpful than anything even trained professionals would ever do--and is definitely more than anything a pro-lifer could ever hope to achieve.

And even if the list was taken care of, it'd still be their choice, so leave them alone.

Amen. And im not religious lol. Although i would say welcome them in as we are doing nothing wrong and are actually supportive of each other. In fact no just let them eatch love island (reality tv show for stupid people in the uk)

 

[Polly]

Are we sure we want to give them any info? I doubt they will see our thinking.

 

[Carina]

Are we sure we want to give them any info? I doubt they will see our thinking.

If they see it, they're already here, so they've seen things already. They'll just twist things to suit their narrative as it is. Say anything positive, and they'll twist it to say we're wanting people to die. Say we're in recovery, and they'll say we're faking it for attention or they did good by infiltrating us. Really, doesn't matter. Ignore, keep on doing things, they'll get bored when they realize that they don't get a rise out of us, and that we're basically logical, and their own people will start questioning why they had to twist things to make it look good.

 

[Backwood_tilt]

This is a very effortful post, and i want to respect that, but honestly, why do we care what prolifers think? What would their validation of our worldviews give us?

What is it about us that makes us so uncomfortable accepting that there are people who disagree with us? Presumably we are still going to make our own decisions about CTB, so i don't see what difference it makes.

The only threat i can think of is people reporting and trying to take down SS so we lose our place of support. I feel like that risk comes with the turf. Or we post enough personal info about ourselves, leave ourselves open to getting doxxed or discovered when we do try to CTB.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

It's a mix between being in in their little bubble and the crab mentality (if I can't do it, why should you). Suicide is seen as the easy way out of life.

They're insecure about their own world views on life.

 

[purplemoon]

This site has helped in very surprising ways...
For myself & others, we finally have a real chance to express our thoughts & feelings without instantaneous judgment and being forced into a psych ward against our will.

The irony is that many who were genuinely suicidal decided, after much venting & thoughtful reflection, to actually REVERSE and start trying to live again (recovery).

Yes, many also chose to ctb... however, they likely would have done so regardless of this site, but at least they had some comfort before they left with others consoling them and validating their deepest feelings.

Going to counseling does not work well for everyone, including myself.

I spent years trying various 'help' for PTSD including both male/female psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, counselors, medications, peer support groups, etc. NONE have ever been able to help me, with the slight exception of a domestic violence survivors peer support group that did give me some further insight and validation.

I even had one psychiatrist display immaturity in his obnoxious temper tantrum when my IQ score was higher than his; it was apparent that day these 'professionals' are just mere human beings and frankly, i need someone at least as intelligent as i am or more. PTSD is not a disorder, it's an injury to the nervous system and brain that is found in nature by design for survival in an environment ripe with unpredictable violence. Spare me the EMDR suggestions or 'have you tried breathing, meditation, & journaling' spiel please. Gave those all a try already. Waste of time and money.

i understand Pro-lifers to a point, but once a person has become so utterly exhausted from a society that has no mercy, almost no safety nets financially, within a culture that has massive populations of violent/ sexual predators, don't tell me i need 'help'... it's all the cruelty out there that is the damn problem, SO STOP blaming the victims who react naturally to such damaging trauma in their environment.

If a person is in severe physical pain, or knows (especially after trying for a long time to cope) that they have not been or will not survive well, or have a poor quality of life, it is THEIR DECISION, THEIR LIFE, NOT YOURS TO DECIDE...

I understand if it's a child, obviously someone should stop them and intervene. But if is an ADULT... it's absolutely NONE of your business.

It comes down to the essence of this REALITY...

OUR LIFE = OUR CHOICE

 

[Mm80]

This is a very effortful post, and i want to respect that, but honestly, why do we care what prolifers think? What would their validation of our worldviews give us?

What is it about us that makes us so uncomfortable accepting that there are people who disagree with us? Presumably we are still going to make our own decisions about CTB, so i don't see what difference it makes.

The only threat i can think of is people reporting and trying to take down SS so we lose our place of support. I feel like that risk comes with the turf. Or we post enough personal info about ourselves, leave ourselves open to getting doxxed or discovered when we do try to CTB.

Thats a good point. I think the anger comes from years of being told its selfish or weak to ctb by people who dont understand. But i agree we owe no justification to pro lifers and they are welcome on here to waste their time.

 

[Quarky00]

They're insecure about their own world views on life.

Not sure they have that depth of emotion ;)

Most just blindly believe that cause , there's not much more to it

It's 'horrible' and they are 'helping' people , and that's it

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Not sure they have that depth of emotion ;)
Most just blindly believe that cause , there's not much more to it .
It's 'horrible' and they are 'helping' people , and that's it ..

If they blindly believe it, aren't they the cult? They think we're some kind of death cult.

 

[TAW122]

One other thing I wanted to add to @HannahB is that pro-lifers usually see us as some 'project' or some victim that they need to save. I would say to them:

"We don't need nor want to be saved, and we aren't children, nor are we animals. Stop treating us like victims of a crime nor imposing 'help' (which is rather oppression) onto us. It only exacerbates our situation and makes things worse. We are free-thinking, rational individuals who have (over time) arrived at the conclusion that suicide and death would be our best option given our circumstances. Also, you (pro-lifers) are imposing your will onto our will and that is a violation of our free will, and freedom. You cannot claim that you are for freedom and respect others' rights but when it comes to one of the most fundamental and core rights (the right to choose whether to live or die) you decide to force your will onto us. That makes you a hypocrite.

We don't go around dictating how you live your lives or what you can or can't do, nor do we impose our will onto your choices. Please respect our rights as we have (always) respected yours and then everyone can get along. Finally, as you have claimed, the world doesn't owe us anything nor do you owe us anything. We acknowledge that and it also works the other way around too, we don't owe you (pro-lifers) our existence for your feelings and ego either."

The only threat i can think of is people reporting and trying to take down SS so we lose our place of support. I feel like that risk comes with the turf. Or we post enough personal info about ourselves, leave ourselves open to getting doxxed or discovered when we do try to CTB.

I hope it doesn't happen, this is in a sense, like my true home, where I am able to talk about suicide and other stuff without judgment and fear of consequences, or being bombarded with pro-life, toxic positivity bullshit that is prevalent everywhere IRL. As far as information, yes I am always careful with what I post that may lead to some people "discovering" who I am. If I am to post a bit more information and details, it would only be when I know that I would not be able to be stopped, otherwise I'm just going to refrain from posting anything that could potentially lead to me being doxxed. It's too risky imho.

There is no "explaining" or enlightening forced lifers. They don't see any wold outside of their tiny brain-washed bubble. You can give them a mountain of irrefutable, well documented evidence that counters every one of thier narrow, ignorant views and they just keep pressing on.

Yes, I can fully agree with this. I had similar experiences too IRL when I brushed on the topic of euthanasia (for terminally and chronically ill) just to test some waters a while ago. No budge and no go. These forced lifers (aka pro-lifers) just won't accept any dissenting views and then the worst thing is that they force their agenda and will onto others who don't agree with them. They think they are helping, but really they are only making things worse, or at best, nothing. I've long gave up trying to explain or get some sense into them, they don't get it and won't get it, plus it's too risky for me to try to win an unwinnable battle. Nowadays, I'm just masking my intentions IRL and then preparing for the time I CTB to get out of this mess.

 

[Quarky00]

If they blindly believe it, aren't they the cult? They think we're some kind of death cult.

Yeah, said that -

I'm sorry , I don't speak to brain-washed cult followers

Why do we do things "against our cult", like stop ctbs?
That self-check does not exist with pro-lifers = a cult
Dishonest flimsy narrative ...


Not much I can say to a person insisting the earth is flat. Okay, wear your tinfoil hat ..