Discussion Why it's best not to say "I hope you find peace"

[nattys5thtoenail]

I say it because that's how I feel. I want to CTB to finally be at peace from everything that tortures my mind.

Exactly, technically you could argue that it's unethical to stray people away from CTB knowing that they're mentally suffering because of your own guilt and SI. Some people straight up just shouldn't be alive and I support them in taking the initiatives to finding happiness outside of this realm.

If I make a CTB post I would love to have people wish me peace instead of having yns blowing up my phone trying to keep me alive when they just straight up don't know what I've been through. Life is overrated.

 

[AAE]

I don't think that if someone suggests that you join a support group it means that they don't care about you or are palming you off on others. It could just be that they can't relate to your problem or don't know how to help you. Support groups can be helpful. It can be helpful to talk to people who have experienced the same problems you have. They understand better where you are coming from and may be better able to offer you advice than someone who hasn't experienced the same problem and can't relate.

Of course you have to find the right one. Some groups are more helpful than others. I wouldn't be discouraged if you find the people in one group weren't very helpful. It doesn't mean that another support group wouldn't be any better.

Thanks, I get what you mean but it's hard to explain the situation in my country where most people are brainwashed into not caring about anything and get arrested if not acting politically correct. There aren't any real support groups that would work for me since the suffering I have gone through and am still going through is politically incorrect because nobody is allowed to criticize the people responsible. That kind of loneliness is excruciatingly painful. On this forum people can post their story and be met with actual compassion. I know no support groups that would ever do that.

 

[brokeandbroken]

When someone here expresses that they plan on imminent suicide, one of the most common responses is "I hope you find peace" or similar.

There are a number of reasons why I think that, although this is usually well-intentioned, it is a harmful response.

1) It softly pushes someone away.

Look, we don't want to be a cult, but one of the things that suicidal people are most often lacking is connection. Saying "I hope you find peace" doesn't provide that. Instead, try saying things like, "I hear what you're saying", "sounds like you're in a lot of pain", "I went through something similar so I know what you're going through", "my friend had something similar happen to them", "there are support networks for that", "we're here for you." Make people feel connection to others. Try to convey compassion and understanding without encouraging suicide.

2) It encourages suicide.

"I hope you find peace" implies that suicide is a means to achieve peace, and peace is generally considered a good thing. This site takes a radical pro-choice position, but, as I understand it, is very keen not to actively encourage suicide. Linking death and peace serves to make suicide more attractive. To be clear, you have the right to view death as peaceful if you like, but encouraging others to view it that way, or reinforcing such a view, is irresponsible. It is up to the individual to decide whether suicide is right for them, and it is very important for everyone to avoid feeding other people's hopelessness or destructiveness.

3) It makes assumptions about the individual's motives and beliefs.

This is unavoidable to an extent, but it can be alienating to people. I don't, personally, think my death will be peaceful: I think I will be obliterated. There will be no peace, because there will be nothing at all. We've had users here who were convinced they were going to Hell. I would personally try and comfort such a person, but saying "I hope you find peace" doesn't meet them where they are. Others want to commit suicide because they are experiencing psychosis and delusionally think they have to kill themselves. People's reasons for committing suicide are varied, and often aren't about "finding peace".

/r/SuicideWatch put together a guide to avoiding and spotting accidental incitement, which specifically picks out "I hope you find peace" as an unhelpful phrase": https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement

It's very hard to know what to say when discussing suicide, so we're all probably going to get it wrong sometimes, but I think this community's default habit of saying "I hope you find peace" is, in my view, suboptimal.

I'm sure people used this before me but I never read someone using it before I did. So let me address your points.

1) Usually when I say this I have addressed those things prior. It is usually used at the end of a message. It isn't something alone. It's seeing someone addressing their pain. Realizing I can't do anything about it. Realizing I can at least wish whatever battle they are fighting ends in the best way possible and they can reach some inner peace. Because I know what it is like to fight losing battles with your self where you are so beaten down that you just wish for moments of inner peace. To me CTBing is losing that war. It is sad. That sad I can also realize that the people doing it are in incredible amounts of inner turmoil and pain. I hope at the very least peace is found.
2) I deliberately use this because peace can be found without committing suicide but I hope if they do they are reach peace as I believe in the afterlife. I choose this intentionally as it is neutral. I want the best possible outcome of every situation. I believe peace to be that outcome universally. I'm not sure if you are so jaded you don't believe peace cannot be found with CTBing but I do. Maybe I am depressingly optimistic in that way. Not necessarily for me very unlikely. But for others I think it is definitely possible.
3) I hadn't read suicide watch before but I disagree with what they are saying. To me it is neutral. I think it is problematic because no matter what you say it is going to be a problem. The honest truth is every position is going to be a problem. From trying to save everyone to wishing everyone dies. There isn't a good answer. That said in my opinion this is a very neutral response. I know what it is like to be so fucking miserable for so long death seems attractive and right now for me the scale between living and dying is shifting towards dying in a major way. You can only go without anything enjoyable in your life for so long. It isn't my brain doesn't have the capacity to enjoy life. It is my life is miserable and lacking joy. it is my life IS NOT worth living objectively. I don't want to suffer like this for however long. Frankly I know if my life doesn't get better it will actually get worse. That's what happens in life. Especially my current life. This is a long way of saying I know people probably will commit suicide. There is nothing I can do to take that pain away, make their life living, and frankly do things to save them. I wish I could. Just like I know people on here can't do that for me not that people would. The one thing I can say is I hope the war inside you calms and you now or in the afterlife find peace, calm, and just general contentment. Peace may not be what people are lacking for directly. But I find it difficult to believe that if it is found their QOL improves significantly. I know mine would.

As I and you have said there isn't an optimal thing to say. Everything is going to be suboptimal. That said in my view. This is a valid response and the bet I got. As again and the reason I choose it is it applies in every scenario and peace in some form or another is an objectively good thing.

 

[Sutter]

Lot of stress on this one, for good reason I suppose.

People post for contact, to lighten their hearts, to express what they may not be able to elsewhere. I am honored, dam honored to have the opportunity to experience and share what another has opened to me. It is extremely difficult not to make a misstep in life, especially with people.
Believe me when I say I can be that guy. Communication can easily get muddled in text only.

Here is the catch though we just are who we are and follow our hearts where they lead, some better than others I suppose. When I respond to to something I have stopped, focused, and involved part of myself and my time. Which is as important as anyone else's. I mean what I say, so if I had said that and I might have, it is meant in the spirit it was given. That the suffering may come to end, that the pain for all we know stops, that whatever if anything no matter what religion is a peaceful sense of unconsciousness OR that whatever the issue may be resolves itself no longer keeping someone in a state of pain. I have the compassion to accept someone that chooses death as well as life.

Got my fur a little poofed there but I will recover.

 

[Leiot]

Sometimes I wonder if the best thing is to just listen and don't offer anything under than a or a or something. Just let the person know someone is paying attention to their suffering without offering any comments.

 

[ghost-shock]

I wouldn't mind if someone said "i hope you find peace" to me

 

[ijustwishtodie]

What the fuck, this site really is becoming more pro life. There's nothing wrong with saying "I hope you find peace soon". Whether we like to admit it or not, for some people the only peace can be found in death or in the absence of life. Don't pretend like people like me don't exist who finds existence to be torturous and the absence of existence to be relieving. Also, encouraging suicide, really!? You think that a simple phrase has enough impact to encourage somebody to kill themselves!? People here are killing themselves because of their life situation, not because some random people on the internet are saying "I hope you find peace soon". This is giving me pro lifer vibes with regards to how they act like suicidal people are vulnerable and easily influenced by what people say. You know what, you're somehow even worse than actual pro lifers since at least they say "rest in peace" to those who have died

Fuck, this thread is super fucking invalidating of my struggles in life and I'm extremely pissed right now

 

[Leiot]

What the fuck, this site really is becoming more pro life. There's nothing wrong with saying "I hope you find peace soon". Whether we like to admit it or not, for some people the only peace can be found in death or in the absence of life. Don't pretend like people like me don't exist who finds existence to be torturous and the absence of existence to be relieving. Also, encouraging suicide, really!? You think that a simple phrase has enough impact to encourage somebody to kill themselves!? People here are killing themselves because of their life situation, not because some random people on the internet are saying "I hope you find peace soon". This is giving me pro lifer vibes with regards to how they act like suicidal people are vulnerable and easily influenced by what people say. You know what, you're somehow even worse than actual pro lifers since at least they say "rest in peace" to those who have died

Fuck, this thread is super fucking invalidating of my struggles in life and I'm extremely pissed right now

I think this pretty much sums up the whole discussion: you never know how the person's going to take it. It might make some of us feel better; other's it might make feel worse, and still others may just get pissed off at how little they're understood.

Actually, I think we all fall into the third category a little bit. Personally, I don't think I'm going to say it unless I'm sure the person wants to hear it.

I wouldn't mind if someone said "i hope you find peace" to me

@ghost-shock, I hope you find peace.

 

[Unspoken7612]

You know what, you're somehow even worse than actual pro lifers since at least they say "rest in peace" to those who have died

Pro-mortalists consistently have awful takes on everything. Pro-mortalists who have been posting here for a long time, even more so.

If your response to someone saying "instead of encouraging people to kill themselves, try to connect with them and build a sense of community" is to get angry, call people names, accuse people of ignoring your existence, and complain that the site is getting "too pro-life", then you need to drastically re-evaluate your values.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Pro-mortalists consistently have awful takes on everything. Pro-mortalists who have been posting here for a long time, even more so.

How so? I don't see anything wrong in what they say logically. Life as a whole is suffering and the only way to end suffering is to end sentience. How is that an awful take? Besides, at the end of the day, pro mortalism is only a philosophy and nothing else since no pro mortalists has access to technology that can be used to end all life

If your response to someone saying "instead of encouraging people to kill themselves, try to connect with them and build a sense of community" is to get angry, call people names, accuse people of ignoring your existence, and complain that the site is getting "too pro-life", then you need to drastically re-evaluate your values.

Sorry for being angry, I was just annoyed at your post as it seemed so invalidating. For some people, the only peace that they can find is death so what's the harm in wishing them peace? Also, a simple phrase isn't going to encourage somebody else to kill themselves. A reason why I accused you of being pro life is because pro lifers tend to assume that suicidal people are vulnerable and are easily influenced by what people say which is what you seemed to be implying with your post

 

[CatLvr]

Nah -- I'm a grumpy old "Get off my lawn" type of Boomer gal and I personally think the world is too fucking sensitive for it's own good now. I LISTEN to what people say WITH MY HEART and the words coming outta their mouth are a lot less important than the feeling they are saying those words with.

And you know what?? I spend a whole lot less time with my feelings hurt and my emotions triggered than about 99% of the rest of the world. It is NOT someone else's job to regulate MY EMOTIONS and/or MY RESPONSE to anything said to me. THAT is on ME. Why are you giving the rest of the world that much control over you??

Instead of looking for what isolates you from the rest of the world try looking for what joins you to them. Might help with all the angst you are feeling.

Am I suicidal?? Yes.

Do I have mental problems that stemmed from what on a good day be termed "horrific" abuse when I was a child? Yes.

Do people hurt my feelings sometimes? Again, yes.

Do I let something someone said in the absolute most well-meaning way possible bother me because they didn't "say it 'right'"?? Fuck NO.

Might try it. Can be pretty liberating. Now GET OFF MY LAWN!

 

[uglyugly]

I hear you, but when I say that, I almost always pair it with "no matter what road or path you take, I hope you find peace." And it's something I mean, I'm not spouting an empty platitude or encouraging a thing one way or the other. I hope all of us eventually find peace, living or in death... whether that's a natural death or not. I've been in so much pain for so long, all I want is peace.

But I hear what you are saying and I think you have good points.

 

[Unspoken7612]

A reason why I accused you of being pro life is because pro lifers tend to assume that suicidal people are vulnerable and are easily influenced by what people say which is what you seemed to be implying with your post

Yes - most suicidal people (not all) are vulnerable, and many are easily influenced. The vast majority of suicidal people attempt suicide due to a one-off acute mental health crisis that would have passed with time. This impacts upon their ability to think clearly and rationally, leaving them sensitive and vulnerable. Additionally, many are children or otherwise lack capacity (whether that's due to learning disability, or due to psychosis. I think the moral responsibility upon all of us is primarily to protect those people who cannot make a free and informed choice. I can always commit suicide in the future, but someone who prematurely kills themselves in a moment of heightened emotion cannot unkill themselves.

 

[cicatrezESP]

it's a pretty harmless statement. frankly i think it's much better than a lot of alternatives i can think of. i have to ask, if you want to lecture people on why they shouldn't say a harmless set of words: what are your alternate suggestions? if you're going to dismantle a harmless statement, please, do you have an examples on something better? someone who wants to die doesn't want to hear "no, don't kill yourself", or guilted with feelings like "people will miss you"... they've likely heard that all before
wishing someone peace is as harmless as it gets, that's likely what that person is seeking. peace. there's no malice behind the words and they aren't pressuring the person to do anything. they're just wishing them well. this is an odd nitpick, what else are we *supposed* to say, since you have decided it's suboptimal, apparently

 

[Leiot]

Nah -- I'm a grumpy old "Get off my lawn" type of Boomer gal and I personally think the world is too fucking sensitive for it's own good now. I LISTEN to what people say WITH MY HEART and the words coming outta their mouth are a lot less important than the feeling they are saying those words with.
...
Might try it. Can be pretty liberating. Now GET OFF MY LAWN!

A Boomer gal? The world certainly has changed, hasn't it? I'm from 1958.

(and you're a cat lover..)
@CatLvr

 

[Emeralds]

What the fuck, this site really is becoming more pro life. There's nothing wrong with saying "I hope you find peace soon". Whether we like to admit it or not, for some people the only peace can be found in death or in the absence of life. Don't pretend like people like me don't exist who finds existence to be torturous and the absence of existence to be relieving. Also, encouraging suicide, really!? You think that a simple phrase has enough impact to encourage somebody to kill themselves!? People here are killing themselves because of their life situation, not because some random people on the internet are saying "I hope you find peace soon". This is giving me pro lifer vibes with regards to how they act like suicidal people are vulnerable and easily influenced by what people say. You know what, you're somehow even worse than actual pro lifers since at least they say "rest in peace" to those who have died

Fuck, this thread is super fucking invalidating of my struggles in life and I'm extremely pissed right now

People are vulnerable when they get to the point that they are considering ending their life. There is no time that they will ever be more vunerable. People can be influenced by other people's words or actions whether they are suicidal or not. Everyone on here doesn't have the same problems. Everyone on here hasn't made up their mind for certain. There are a lot of people still on the fence. Someone who is depressed and considering suicide can be influenced negatively. If everyone around them tells them how bad they think life is and it will never get better, and people keep telling them death is a great thing that will bring them peace,it could influence some people who are under a lot of stress and are uncertain. Telling someone you wish them peace wouldn't ' be the cause of their being suicidal, but it could be the tipping factor for some people. Especially if no one bothers to ask them what their problems are or at least offer another solution.

 

[ArteriesBindEveryon]

When someone here expresses that they plan on imminent suicide, one of the most common responses is "I hope you find peace" or similar.

There are a number of reasons why I think that, although this is usually well-intentioned, it is a harmful response.

1) It softly pushes someone away.

Look, we don't want to be a cult, but one of the things that suicidal people are most often lacking is connection. Saying "I hope you find peace" doesn't provide that. Instead, try saying things like, "I hear what you're saying", "sounds like you're in a lot of pain", "I went through something similar so I know what you're going through", "my friend had something similar happen to them", "there are support networks for that", "we're here for you." Make people feel connection to others. Try to convey compassion and understanding without encouraging suicide.

2) It encourages suicide.

"I hope you find peace" implies that suicide is a means to achieve peace, and peace is generally considered a good thing. This site takes a radical pro-choice position, but, as I understand it, is very keen not to actively encourage suicide. Linking death and peace serves to make suicide more attractive. To be clear, you have the right to view death as peaceful if you like, but encouraging others to view it that way, or reinforcing such a view, is irresponsible. It is up to the individual to decide whether suicide is right for them, and it is very important for everyone to avoid feeding other people's hopelessness or destructiveness.

3) It makes assumptions about the individual's motives and beliefs.

This is unavoidable to an extent, but it can be alienating to people. I don't, personally, think my death will be peaceful: I think I will be obliterated. There will be no peace, because there will be nothing at all. We've had users here who were convinced they were going to Hell. I would personally try and comfort such a person, but saying "I hope you find peace" doesn't meet them where they are. Others want to commit suicide because they are experiencing psychosis and delusionally think they have to kill themselves. People's reasons for committing suicide are varied, and often aren't about "finding peace".

/r/SuicideWatch put together a guide to avoiding and spotting accidental incitement, which specifically picks out "I hope you find peace" as an unhelpful phrase": https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement

It's very hard to know what to say when discussing suicide, so we're all probably going to get it wrong sometimes, but I think this community's default habit of saying "I hope you find peace" is, in my view, suboptimal.

It should never be the first thing you say to someone. I think it's far better to ask them why they're choosing to CTB.