Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Miri]

Sin oxígeno, las células de su cuerpo comienzan a morir, en todas partes, incluido el cerebro.
Un par de minutos después de perder el conocimiento, ya se ha producido una cantidad significativa de daño cerebral.
Sin embargo, el cuerpo no muere por completo hasta 28 a 40 minutos después de la inconsciencia.
Si, por alguna razón, se interrumpe el flujo, se altera la bolsa, se quita la manguera, lo que sea, y el cuerpo comenzara a recibir oxígeno nuevamente, usted podría vivir, pero tener un daño cerebral leve o grave, es decir, vegetal.

Is the process `painful?

 

[mandyjohnuk]

Click on the triple-bar-menu-symbol at the video thumbnail. The videos in the playlist are shown there.

Thanks my friend.

 

[FromGermany]

I believe, it's not a bad idea to combine this method with CO.

To overcome the SI is a matter of emotionsless practice and to have deep peace and the warming wish to go to the other side in that moment. For me I would think about the reunion with my beloved wife. I lost her 2 years ago. Because of several terminal illnesses, there was no chance for her. I rescued her from the Dr. Frankenstein like hospital and brought her home to our poodles. She passed away two weeks later, holding my hands, without any pain or fear.

Convulsions can be a so hard with Nitrogen, that I need a very strong chair with armrests, and the chair must be fixed at all 4 legs, and the upper body has to be taped around the chair.

If anything goes wrong, I can have a brain damage already after 3 or 5 minutes.

Surviving CO you can also have brain damages, but they come delayed, days or weeks later. In Germany there are some cases, where people survived CO. They have been in the news, because it have been crimes. In one case a mother tried to kill her kids with CO together with herself. The kids died. She survived. She appeared months later before court still only with a rollator due to the brain damages.

So, Nitrogen or CO, in both cases you face the risk of brain damages.

The difference with CO is, if the CO level is high enough, the SI has no chance anymore, because I am unable to move. Even if SI says, I shall leave the room, I can't. And moving out of the room is the only chance to survive with CO.

CO is really not that painless. There are many side-effects like very strong headache, neusea, vomitting, chest pain and convulsions, also the risk of amputations, if you survive, but with enough charcoal in a small toilett it's nearly impossible to survive, with the right concept. Not everyone is facing that side effects or all of them.

If the bag or helmet or whatsoever does not work as it should be with the Nitrogen, but at the same time I have also CO running, then even if something goes wrong with Nitrogen, there is still the CO in the room.

If I am already unconscious due to Nitrogen and then something unexpected happens, probably side effects of CO will show no impact. The CO will just end it while I am sleeping.

The set up is more complicated. Tubes and the bag must be heat resistant, the Nitrogen bottle for the same reason outside of the toilet, connected with the tube through a later sealed hole in the door.

SN is no option for a combination with Nitrogen for me, because vomitting into a bag or helmet can lead to aspiration of it.

SN kills me only after many hours, CO within 1-3 hours and Nitrogen within one hour.

Many say, 40 minutes are the failsafe maximum with Nitrogen, I say, Gaussian bell curve is the evidence, that there are people, who will survive longer and die earlier under the same conditions. If there are small leaks for O2, the whole process lasting longer.

With a 10 L bottle (uncompressed 2,000 L) and a minimum flow rate in my opinion of 20 L/min, there is gas for 100 minutes.

I will never use gas for less than 60 minutes and a flow rate of minimum 20 L/min.

Don't forget: If one will use Nitrogen, the #1 rule is to avoid surviving with a brain damage. This can be almost ensured by the other brain killer, CO, which will also neutralizes the remaining SI.

The Scuba option is no option for me, because even with this expensive masks it's very difficult to get an airtight seal on the face. And when the convulsions begin and the face muscles change their behavior, it could be a failure.

Any mask is a risk.

A helmet with an one-way-valve could be the perfect replacement for the exit bag. It would also be a working option together with CO to resist the heat in the room.

Sedatives are a must for CO. But my plan is not to pass away by CO but by Nitrogen. CO is the failsafe. I can take the sedatives moments before inhaling the gas.

If I would have a gun, my method would be Nitrogen and seconds, after the bag or helmet is on my head, a shot into the heart on 31. December, when everywhere is firework.

 

[FromGermany]

There is a doku about journalists filming german police officers during their daily work.

In a video one year ago a man was found dead in his bed. It was mentioned, he used Nitrogen together with the exit bag.

Starting at 5:20 you can see the bag and the tank.

The police officer says, that he saw this method multiple times.

 

[sublimewave]

Hi everyone.

I initially planned to use argon and bought an argon regulator marked in cfh. Then I changed the gas to nitrogen based on further study. Based on what I've read here, nitrogren through an argon regulator should be set to 21 lpm, which converts to 44 cfh. Is that accurate?

 

[mandyjohnuk]

No way.
That's to much.
The information is in hear if you look for it.

All I will say is that if your using an Argon Reg then it's slightly lower LPM than using a Nitrogen Reg.

 

[sublimewave]

No way.
That's to much.
The information is in hear if you look for it.

All I will say is that if your using an Argon Reg then it's slightly lower LPM than using a Nitrogen Reg.

Thanks for answering. Here's on thread where I got those numbers:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/inert-gas-cylinder-regulator-general-refresher-summary.30657/

"If you're using nitrogen with a regulator marker argon/oxygen, just go for a flow in the higher range, 18 - 19"

And there's at least one other one where people say the same thing, and one where people agree with you.

Edit, another thread:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/will-argon-regulator-work-with-nitrogen-tank.21515/

 

[Greenberg]

Hi everyone.

I initially planned to use argon and bought an argon regulator marked in cfh. Then I changed the gas to nitrogen based on further study. Based on what I've read here, nitrogren through an argon regulator should be set to 21 lpm, which converts to 44 cfh. Is that accurate?

Your Ar regulator should be set to 12.5LPM. The calculations are from my Aug 28th blog entry. Ar is a heavier element than diatomic N. Best, G

 

[mandyjohnuk]

Thanks for answering. Here's on thread where I got those numbers:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/inert-gas-cylinder-regulator-general-refresher-summary.30657/

"If you're using nitrogen with a regulator marker argon/oxygen, just go for a flow in the higher range, 18 - 19"

And there's at least one other one where people say the same thing, and one where people agree with you.

Edit, another thread:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/will-argon-regulator-work-with-nitrogen-tank.21515/

Again Thats way to high.

Look for a member hear called Greenberg.

He has a vast array of information in his Blog.

 

[Apricity]

I've taken the liberty of extracting just the section about exit bags from the PPH so it's easier to find the information.

 

[FromGermany]

Where is the problem with using more L/minute flow, at least in the case of Nitrogen? If you have too small flow, then the CO2 can't flushed away as it should be. If you use more flow, then this problem can be fixed without speculations. Also, the test of the helmet by PPH was done with a 25/L flow of Nitrogen. It was 25/L and not more, because 25/L was the maximum of the regulator.

 

[mandyjohnuk]

Where is the problem with using more L/minute flow, at least in the case of Nitrogen? If you have too small flow, then the CO2 can't flushed away as it should be. If you use more flow, then this problem can be fixed without speculations. Also, the test of the helmet by PPH was done with a 25/L flow of Nitrogen. It was 25/L and not more, because 25/L was the maximum of the regulator.

Because like myself. The Regulator they will be using is an Argon Regulator. So adjusted the flow would have to be lowered.

 

[FromGermany]

Because like myself. The Regulator they will be using is an Argon Regulator. So adjusted the flow would have to be lowered.

So 20 L/m Nitrogen on an Argon Regulator = 17 L/m and 25 L/m Nitrogen = 21 L/m.

In the Final Exit 2020 Derek Humphry says: "For the nitrogen method set the nitrogen regulator outlet gauge at 20 liters per minute (LPM)"

This is my point. It can't be a mistake to use more L/m for more flow, better than too low flow, which can end in a desaster. More flow = less CO2 and more positive pressure in the bag/helmet.

I would never use a flow smaller than 20 L/m.

 

[mandyjohnuk]

So 20 L/m Nitrogen on an Argon Regulator = 17 L/m and 25 L/m Nitrogen = 21 L/m.

In the Final Exit 2020 Derek Humphry says: "For the nitrogen method set the nitrogen regulator outlet gauge at 20 liters per minute (LPM)"

This is my point. It can't be a mistake to use more L/m for more flow, better than too low flow, which can end in a desaster. More flow = less CO2 and more positive pressure in the bag/helmet.

I would never use a flow smaller than 20 L/m.

If your using an Argon Regulator with a Nitrogen tank then the flow rate should be between 12 to 13 LPM.

 

[FromGermany]

If your using an Argon Regulator with a Nitrogen tank then the flow rate should be between 12 to 13 LPM.

But in this case there is only a 15L/m real flow rate of Nitrogen, which is too low.

 

[mandyjohnuk]

But in this case there is only a 15L/m real flow rate of Nitrogen, which is too low.

Not in this case as I have been reassured that because of using Nitrogen through an Argon Regulator it needs to be at such a level.

 

[Greenberg]

Not in this case as I have been reassured that because of using Nitrogen through an Argon Regulator it needs to be at such a level.

If you choose to use a higher flow rate than suggested, just make sure that you have sufficient gas. Best, G

 

[mandyjohnuk]

If you choose to use a higher flow rate than suggested, just make sure that you have sufficient gas. Best, G

Im agreeing with you Greenberg. I said I had been reassured by your good self previously.

 

[FromGermany]

Humphry says in his latest publication explicit, one should ensure (at least) 20 L/m flow rate.

The Hamilton WK, Eastwood DW study says, the flow rate should be at least the personal minute volume x 2.5, approximately 10 litres per minute for an average adult x 2.5 = 25 L/m flow rate.

PPH says, for a helmet there should be at least 25 L/m

The 15 L/m are du to the fact, that in the majority of cases small tanks have been used and to find out, where is a good point to have a minimum - not the optimum for everybody - of flow which will work fine with small tanks, so that one will not run out of gas.

In the beginning there have been tanks with 2 L used. 2 L = 400 uncompressed L : 15 = Only 26 minutes gas.

One women in the 4 Dignitas cases lost consciousness after 55 seconds but have died only after more than 38 minutes. A mask was used and there was a leak, but also a bag can have a leak or a helmet or a scuba due to the heavy movements of the body. More flow will not flush away only CO2 better, also O2, because this is the point of the gas.

One will probably not die before 10 minutes, but lose consciousness within the first minute. 10 minutes is shorten than with CO or SN.

 

[mandyjohnuk]

Humphry says in his latest publication explicit, one should ensure (at least) 20 L/m flow rate.

The Hamilton WK, Eastwood DW study says, the flow rate should be at least the personal minute volume x 2.5, approximately 10 litres per minute for an average adult x 2.5 = 25 L/m flow rate.

PPH says, for a helmet there should be at least 25 L/m

The 15 L/m are du to the fact, that in the majority of cases small tanks have been used and to find out, where is a good point to have a minimum - not the optimum for everybody - of flow which will work fine with small tanks, so that one will not run out of gas.

In the beginning there have been tanks with 2 L used. 2 L = 400 uncompressed L : 15 = Only 26 minutes gas.

One women in the 4 Dignitas cases lost consciousness after 55 seconds but have died only after more than 38 minutes. A mask was used and there was a leak, but also a bag can have a leak or a helmet or a scuba due to the heavy movements of the body. More flow will not flush away only CO2 better, also O2, because this is the point of the gas.

One will probably not die before 10 minutes, but lose consciousness within the first minute. 10 minutes is shorten than with CO or SN.

This is wear I'm getting confused.
So even if I'm using an Argon Regulator the flow rate should be set at 12.5 LPM to have the optimal 15 LPM. This is for a 2 LTR cylinder and give me roughly 26 minutes of gas.

If I wanted to up to the desired 20 LPM would u set the flow rate to say 17 LPM.

 

[FromGermany]

Exactly, and as I have pointed out, 15L/m is not optimal. It's the minimum only.
And there has to be gas for 60 minutes.

Very thick oven gloves, so that it's hard to rip off the bag or helmet when one loses consciousness. Many movements are directed towards the head. Most people have convulsions with Nitrogen as the study of RAF Institute of Aviation Medicine has proven.

The complete set must hold for 10 minutes, because then the death of the brainstem is imminent, and there is no way back to consciousness. Heart and lungs need more time to give up, perhaps 20 more minutes.

Even it all these things can happen quicker, one has to calculate, there is always an exception to the rule.

If one will be rescued within the first 10 minutes or something bad happens to the bag/helmet within the 10 minutes, then there is a very bad brain damage without any chance of recovery.

So higher flow rate than 15 L/min, enough gas for 60 minutes, oven gloves, sitting upper body taped in an armchair and some other things one has to think about.

 

[FromGermany]

As long as one has not 10.000 Euro to go to Switzerland for a 100 % peaceful death, there are only a very few options left.

But in my opinion one should not believe anything blind, which will be promoted e.g. by Exit International or their main figures.

Think about the expensive MDB regulator, which is obviously not a real nitrogen regulator but a modified made in China oxygen regulator and is only for 180 bar. Here in Germany Nitrogen tanks are filled with 200 bar. Also the 15 L/Minute click flow rate is obsolet. It has to be at least 20 L /Minute.

Some products of EscMode are also made in China and too expensive.

So there is a market with high profit possibilities.

EscMode without any doubts has products, which have the intent to help, even if they are overpriced.

Exit pushed the R2D Rebreather scam, not once, again and again. If they really want to help people, why they are pushing such a dangerous product?

If you decide to 3D print the Sarco, then you can travel for the same money to Switzerland. It may look cool to die in a Star Trek like rescue pod, but his thing is only for the show and only to promote the PPH.

As good as the PPH might be, don't believe everything and do not forget, it's about money.
Every 24 months one has to give money again for access to the online edition of the PPH, which must be updated several times every year to get more customers.

They tested the 3M helmet, which sounds great, but they did not tested it for functions when anyone is breathing or simulate this. This is a huge difference. I have investigated this helmet and a another one, and I have a problem with it, if it holds the positive pressure, because the fabric is not airtight. For me it feels like some updates of the PPH are only for the show, to have some new things for the next update and the next and the next.

Yes, unfortunately, we are customers. Keep that in mind. Take from the PPH, what you need, but make your own research too, especially of the online updates of the book. In this forum you can get the PPH free, which is really a true help. There are so many people, who don't have the money for it.

 

[FromGermany]

I know Nitschke in the PPEH recommends 15 LPM as the optimum flow rate based on tests he says he's done but I wonder is that the real reason or simply because most commonly available O2 regulators only go up to 15 LPM?

This is exactly the reason.

 

[FromGermany]

If you search for "A case of successful resuscitation after helium gas inhalation Fumitaka Kato pdf" on Google, you will find a well described case with a gas survivor and what happened to his brain.

A failure is not always a total brain damage. In this case it was diminished attentiveness, what remained.

 

[FromGermany]

Several people have used this throughout time but they don't always report on it. Would be best to lay back in a bed. Kelley Caitlin used this method only with helium.

Her first attempt was a failure.

WP - She had done as her research suggested, and indeed the helium had caused her to drift off. But after a while, she'd write in her journal later, she simply regained consciousness; the first thing she remembered was standing fully clothed in the shower. Colin would say authorities had arrived, discovering Kelly's materials and rushing her to Stanford Hospital, where she'd spend seven days on an involuntary hold. Kelly either couldn't remember, or wouldn't reveal, much else.

NPR - The suicide attempt left Catlin with lung and heart issues.

Some weeks later her 2nd attempt was successful.

 

[FromGermany]

Another detailed question regarding the Exit Bag.
Usually oven bags are recommended but a manual from exitinternational is suggesting bags made from LDPE.
What do you think is the better one (if any)
Oven Bag: Pro: Thin and light but stable Contra: Noisy, wrinkled therefore leaving gaps at the elastic drawstring
LDPE bag: Pro: No noise, fits well to the skin at the neck Contra: More heavy, doesn't get so well inflated

What do you think is the better one (if any) ?

I have decided for LDPE.

The manual you mentioned can be found with a search on Google/Startpage for "preparing bag using a 75ld2818 ldpe bag - Exit International".

 

[FromGermany]

A few months ago again a person from India CTB with N2 and a mask. He had booked a room at Oyo Hotel in Noida, brought a five kg cylinder with him. Going into the room, he lay down on the bed and put a mask on his mouth by pipe with a cylinder filled with nitrogen. When found, he was lying dead on the bed wearing a nitrogen mask (Whatever a "nitrogen mask" should be. Probably the newspaper refers to an oxygen mask).

This is the quoted summery of some articles. You can find the most informative one if you search for "News7 Learned the easy way on the internet, then committed suicide with nitrogen gas".

 

[pure soul]

A few months ago again a person from India CTB with N2 and a mask. He had booked a room at Oyo Hotel in Noida, brought a five kg cylinder with him. Going into the room, he lay down on the bed and put a mask on his mouth by pipe with a cylinder filled with nitrogen. When found, he was lying dead on the bed wearing a nitrogen mask (Whatever a "nitrogen mask" should be. Probably the newspaper refers to an oxygen mask).

This is the quoted summery of some articles. You can find the most informative one if you search for "News7 Learned the easy way on the internet, then committed suicide with nitrogen gas".

Yes this story is from my state

 

[FromGermany]

There are some cases now from India, who succeeded with masks.
Earlier this year the case from Bengaluru has some more details. He used an oxygen mask connected to the Nitrogen gas cylinder and covered his head (other reports say entire face) with plastic covers.

 

[pure soul]

There are some cases now from India, who succeeded with masks.
Earlier this year the case from Bengaluru has some more details. He used an oxygen mask connected to the Nitrogen gas cylinder and covered his head (other reports say entire face) with plastic covers.

In recent 5 years many cases of nitrogen happened in India, Hyderabad techiee case is also vary famous