Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[stardust_11]

I live in Sydney, Australia. Can someone help me find the materials for the exit bag/ insert gas method ?

 

[Archieozias]

Nitrogen is 100%
And painless too why dont everyone on this site do it?

 

[anonaon]

Nitrogen is 100%
And painless too why dont everyone on this site do it?

Price and availability

 

[GasMonkey]

the seller told me the equipment has been in a warehouse and was never used in firefighting or similar

So it has never been used?
You can check if it works yourself.

 

[sensenmann]

So it has never been used?
You can check if it works yourself.

What should I look out for? I am planning on getting a medical oxygen bottle to thoroughly test out the equipment.

 

[airconditioner]

I have hose, regulator, oven-based exit bag but no canister or viable way to secure one, given my anxiety issues. I am also worried the welding hose will somehow rip the bag when I am ready, it is a heavier welding hose attached to what seems like a very flimsy oven bag (held up with duct-tape and wire). I don't have any immediate plans but was working up to it every time I felt pushed further, and it was a comfort to know it was there if or when I needed it. Now with just the equipment I feel pressured to re-consider more violent means and its as distressing as my daily life.

 

[ztem]

What should I look out for? I am planning on getting a medical oxygen bottle to thoroughly test out the equipment.

Btw,if you want to go with SCBA,you must have one of the following cylinders(valve standard)
DIN477 NO.10 with W 24.32 x 1/14 male thread
DIN477 NO.6 with W 21.8 x 1/14 male thread
BS341 N0.3 with G 5/8 female thread
Why only these three standards?Because so far there are only adapters for these three standards
Why adapter? The SCBA regulator does not connect directly to these cylinders and must be connected to the cylinder with an adapter

 

[kvhenni]

What does it mean exactly when a cylinder is said to be 150 bar pressure, 1.5m3 tank of Nitrogen?
The cylinder is about 70cm high, 20cm diameter. Does it mean that when the pressurized gas is released it takes 1.5m3 volume on normal room pressure?
Moreover, do you think it is enough for a reliable ctb with a bag?

 

[MiraiShisen]

What does it mean exactly when a cylinder is said to be 150 bar pressure, 1.5m3 tank of Nitrogen?
The cylinder is about 70cm high, 20cm diameter. Does it mean that when the pressurized gas is released it takes 1.5m3 volume on normal room pressure?
Moreover, do you think it is enough for a reliable ctb with a bag?

150 bar pressure means that its like normal atmosphere pressure times 150 (150x bigger pressure than in atmosphere) I dont know about volume it takes but it seems like 1,5 m3 would not be enough but I may be wrong, from the size it will be enough anyway to CTB you. I have seen people who intended to do it with smaller nitorgen bombs.

 

[portybarty]

can anyone recommend a good UK setup? would be really appreciated

 

[anonaon]

I dont know about volume it takes but it seems like 1,5 m3 would not be enough but I may be wrong,

1.5m³ is 1500L. That can kill you 10 times

 

[Escape Artist]

Does anyone know if this looks like a good EEBD hood to buy? I'm pretty sure it is but I just want a second opinion before I begin this project. I found a cheap option that seems legit. Maybe too good to be true.

 

[lolalilu]

i'm searching for a helium, argon or n/n2 gas cylinder that i can order to germany. In German Online Shops I only find cylinders up to 50l.

Are there any shops you can recommend?

 

[anonaon]

i'm searching for a helium, argon or n/n2 gas cylinder that i can order to germany. In German Online Shops I only find cylinders up to 50l.

Are there any shops you can recommend?

What's the pressure of those cylinders? In some European countries they name their cylinders based on how much water it holds like 5L, 10L... but that's not the same as uncompressed gas volume.

View attachment 115555
Does anyone know if this looks like a good EEBD hood to buy? I'm pretty sure it is but I just want a second opinion before I begin this project. I found a cheap option that seems legit. Maybe too good to be true.

View attachment 115556

Does it have an exhalation valve? If yes then it should be fine

 

[sensenmann]

i'm searching for a helium, argon or n/n2 gas cylinder that i can order to germany. In German Online Shops I only find cylinders up to 50l.

Are there any shops you can recommend?

how big you want your cylinder to be?

 

[GasMonkey]

I live in Sydney, Australia. Can someone help me find the materials for the exit bag/ insert gas method ?

There is a very good dual-stage Nitrogen flow regulator for the AU/NZ connection. You can find it easily in the Australian eBay.
​

What should I look out for?

Checking that the cylinder doesn't loss pressure when the regulator is pressurized for 10+ mins, positive and negative pressure tests on the mask, checking that the demand valve maintains a positive pressure inside the mask.​

I am planning on getting a medical oxygen bottle to thoroughly test out the equipment.

You shouldn't do that, pure oxygen is toxic (and the SCBA reg isn't an oxygen reg). The equipment could be tested perfectly with any air cylinder with a DIN300 connection like an SCBA tank ( tho).
​

I am also worried the welding hose will somehow rip the bag when I am ready, it is a heavier welding hose

You must use oxygen tubing instead of the welding hose. Read inert gas chapter on the PPH Essentials.

i'm searching for a helium, argon or n/n2 gas cylinder that i can order to germany.

The supplier recommened in the PPeH for EU is from Germany, top-notch supplier with cylinders of all sizes. I can't name it here coz is against the rules to post sources. The most balanced size is 5L 200bar.​

can anyone recommend a good UK setup? would be really appreciated

You can implement all types of setups in the UK: ExitBag, Hood, SCBA, SCUBA. Depends on how much money do you want to spend on it.

Why only these three standards?Because so far there are only adapters for these three standards

There are also adapters for the G3/4" Russian connection and the CGA-346 US SCBA connection (CGA-347 is also used for SCBAs there).

What does it mean exactly when a cylinder is said to be 150 bar pressure

Bar (unit) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GasMonkey]

Does anyone know if this looks like a good EEBD hood to buy?

That hood is from the same manufacturer of the equipment in my setup. It has a long hose and a plug-in nipple to connect to a quick coupler (which is the easiest type of connection to connect/disconnect) in the SCBA of the rescuer.

It doesn't have an inner mask like the typical self-recue EEBD hoods, maybe because it's used at a very high flow rate. It's basically like an ExitBag but with the inlet on bottom instead of atop and with a dedicated purging valve under the inlet.


The hoods with an inner mask maybe will perform better at lower flow rates in terms of CO₂ purging.

 

[lolalilu]

What's the pressure of those cylinders? In some European countries they name their cylinders based on how much water it holds like 5L, 10L... but that's not the same as uncompressed gas volume.

Does it have an exhalation valve? If yes then it should be fine

Ah, I wondered about this cause I don't know how to transport 600 liters^^. Would 10 l be enough then?

 

[GasMonkey]

10L 200bar is a big cylinder (2000L), at 15 LPM that's 133 minutes.

 

[Waxeye6661]

You are supposed to fill the bag 2 minutes fixated on your forehead, once it's filled pull it down and leave some space (two fingers, got no source on that) to deplete CO2. (Re)read the inert gas chapter in pph/ppeh!

If you believe in the pph/ppeh and the case studies around than this the way it will work. Nobody in here can
give you a more definite answer as that would imply some form of reincarnation.

I still struggle with this, is it two fingers flat against the throat under the elastic or two fingers perpendicular

 

[GasMonkey]

@k1w1 has bought the EEBD hood for just $70 from the same source that Vizzy used (asking the seller to send just the hood without the small air cylinder that EEBDs have). It's the same hood that the escMode EEBD kit used. This is the way to go for anybody that doesn't want to craft its own homemade ExitBag but also wants a cheap solid setup.

The only inconvenient is adding the extension to the hose because is short and comes attached to the air regulator that is usually embedded in the cylinder. I wonder if it would be possible to ask the seller to change the hose for a longer one with a connector (plug-in nipple would be ideal) for extra . The escMode EEBD hood came with a longer hose with a connector so it's clearly possible. Asking for a longer hose with a plug-in nipple wouldn't be suspicious coz that's the connection on SCBAs, in fact the Rescue Hood of the most famous manufacturer uses that connection.​

 

[stardust_11]

How do you go about buying the gas cylinder ?
How to get the gas, the mask

 

[kvhenni]

1.5m³ is 1500L. That can kill you 10 times

Overkill. Literally. :)

 

[GasMonkey]

How do you go about buying the gas cylinder ?

You buy it on-line and it gets shipped to your house , where are you from?​

the mask

The mask setups are SCBA and SCUBA, connecting the air regulator to a Nitrogen cylinder using an air-to-nitrogen adapter, but that option is not available on all regions since there isn't an air-to-nitrogen adapter for all the Nitrogen standard connections (each region has its own).​

 

[Das Nichts]

I still struggle with this, is it two fingers flat against the throat under the elastic or two fingers perpendicular

I went with perpendicular and blacked out. I don't think that these small details matter much. You just need to make sure you're not fixating the bag like you
are going to choke yourself.

 

[GasMonkey]

Homemade Sarco.

 

[LonelySoul89]

It looks like a very reliable from of CTB. But still I don't think this is much of a quick thing. maybe some people will trigger the SI and cut the bag open, only to regret the seconds after. It is a very easily accessable method, this I appreciate. Still I am very concerned about the time till death. 5-15 is not a great number I guess. But a pro is definetly the relatively painless way to die, cuz with things like N2 you will pass out, for sure.

 

[ztem]

The mask setups are SCBA and SCUBA, connecting the air regulator to a Nitrogen cylinder using an air-to-nitrogen adapter, but that option is not available on all regions since there isn't an air-to-nitrogen adapter for all the Nitrogen standard connections (each region has its own).

There are no air to n2 adapters in my region too but I can buy it from any country I want by middlemen(Of course, it is 4-5 times the actual price of the product).Since adapters are cheap,so 4-5 times the actual price of the adapter is not too much

 

[Escape Artist]

That hood is from the same manufacturer of the equipment in my setup. It has a long hose and a plug-in nipple to connect to a quick coupler (which is the easiest type of connection to connect/disconnect) in the SCBA of the rescuer.

It doesn't have an inner mask like the typical self-recue EEBD hoods, maybe because it's used at a very high flow rate. It's basically like an ExitBag but with the inlet on bottom instead of atop and with a dedicated purging valve under the inlet.


The hoods with an inner mask maybe will perform better at lower flow rates in terms of CO₂ purging.

Very good to know. Thank you! This is what I couldn't tell even when I looked it up on the manufacturer's website. I ordered it anyway before I saw your response. It's ok - I want to have something on hand.

Ideally, I'd like to have the SCBA or SCUBA setup but I'm in the USA and I haven't seen a solution for an adapter yet.

I have money and (possibly) time so I'm just giving myself multiple methods that are the best I can think of so that when the time comes I'm not scrambling and confused. I have the perfect SN kit too, so like Vizzy, I can make the choice. I have trouble even giving myself injections when I'm in pain, so I know I need something easy, complete, and well-rehearsed that's ready to go.

 

[outrider567]

How long does a tank hold its gas? I want to purchase a tank ahead of time so that when my condition deteriorates to the point I can't endure it, I will have a way in place for leaving the pain. But it could be as long as a couple years. If I buy a tank now, will it still have all its gas a couple years down the road or would I probably need to have it refilled? Thank

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