Do suicidal people have a more realistic view of the world?

[deflationary]

The original question wasn't about rationality, but about what is the more accurate view of the world (again, whatever that means). Fundamentally, it's a nonsensical question, but the answer cannot be that suicidal people have a more "accurate" view of the world than others. At best it's just as valid a view, at worst it's very distorted because of the very rare circumstances that would drive a person to such a point of despair that they view ctb as the only way out. In any case, the view is not *more* accurate.

And what is rational is subjective, and again we see that for the overwhelming majority, being suicidal is irrational--living is worth more than dying. So one can't say as a general matter that suicidal people have a more rational view of the world than people who aren't. It's a nonsensical comparison. It's like asking whether buying a minivan is more rational than buying a truck. Depends on who is doing the buying.

Seems like you're being willfully confused if you think it's a nonsensical question.

Presumably there is some sort of an objective reality out there outside of our subjective experiences. I very much doubt that you deny that across the board. The question then is whether suicidal people as a group tend to track that objective reality more accurately (with less biases, less fictions they cling to, more rationality, whatever) than the non-suicidal. I don't necessarily agree that suicidal people are more realistic as a group but posing the question makes perfect sense.

 

[BetweenRadioStations]

I'd like to think so but the reality of the situation is we only know on a person to person basis. The story of us being wiser may help us sleep at night but truth be told, our conditions, don't make us better or make our world view anymore accurate.

 

[TheLoneWolf]

The original question wasn't about rationality, but about what is the more realistic view of the world (again, whatever that means). Fundamentally, it's a nonsensical question, but the answer cannot be that suicidal people have a more "realistic" view of the world than others. At best it's just as valid a view, at worst it's very distorted because of the very rare circumstances that would drive a person to such a point of despair that they view ctb as the only way out. In any case, the view is not *more* realistic.

And what is rational is subjective, and again we see that for the overwhelming majority, being suicidal is irrational--living is worth more than dying. So one can't say as a general matter that suicidal people have a more rational view of the world than people who aren't. It's a nonsensical comparison. It's like asking whether buying a minivan is more rational than buying a truck. Depends on who is doing the buying.

I hope it's not a nonsensical question. I know there's no "right" answer to the question but I thought it would give some perspective if those who have been through suicidal ideation gave their opinion.

I agree that suicide isn't always rational. Some live with temporary problems where there's a solution and can live a good life when it's solved. Others live in constant pain and suffering for decades with no cure or relief. I don't think anyone should go through this if they really just want peace and to end the suffering.

 

[Celerity]

The original question wasn't about rationality, but about what is the more realistic view of the world (again, whatever that means). Fundamentally, it's a nonsensical question, but the answer cannot be that suicidal people have a more "realistic" view of the world than others. At best it's just as valid a view, at worst it's very distorted because of the very rare circumstances that would drive a person to such a point of despair that they view ctb as the only way out. In any case, the view is not *more* realistic.

And what is rational is subjective, and again we see that for the overwhelming majority, being suicidal is irrational--living is worth more than dying. So one can't say as a general matter that suicidal people have a more rational view of the world than people who aren't. It's a nonsensical comparison. It's like asking whether buying a minivan is more rational than buying a truck. Depends on who is doing the buying.

I would disagree that OP's post was not about rationality. Rationality and a realistic view of the world go hand-in-hand, but that point is semantics, so I'm letting it go.

I actually agree with you on the merits of OP's post as an argument and what is provable or true, but I think you're missing the broader spirit of OP's proposal.

Why do you think so many here agree with OP? Egocentricity? Confirmation bias?

It seems that you (on the one side) and I (with the others, on the other side) are talking about different things. This is probably owed to the squishiness of the concepts in play here.

I still stand by what I said in my initial reply to you - that being suicidal (or going through the experiences conducive to that state) open one up to perspectives that the non-suicidal simply do not have access to. In a global sense, no, we do not have any more realistic a view of the world than the normies and, as you say, it is not really probable either way. In that, we agree.

 

[motel rooms]

Who needs wisdom when you can be happy?

I can't disagree with that & I hate you!!!

The story of us being wiser may help us sleep at night but truth be told, our conditions, don't make us better or make our world view anymore accurate.

@BetweenRadioStations Optimists would never admit that, which makes us infinitely superior to those primitive vermin

 

[Flippy]

Ever seen that meme where a young woman says "If you are homeless, I don't know why you just don't...buy a house? Duuuhhh!"

There are a lot of people who have this mentality to some degree. They have an overly simplistic world view. If your life experiences have always been positive and supportive then you will think life is a doddle.

Until the world has kicked you so hard that you've experienced what it's like to go without things others take for granted, your experience will always be limited and with a lot of people this limited experience, limits their empathy.

Honestly, I've been around people who fall to pieces if the most trivial thing happens. Something that would barely move the needle for me becomes the worst tragedy imaginable for them. "First world problems" people would say. They seem to have a sense of entitlement, that they should never be inconvienced by anything.

I've worked places where it's a constant, miserable, stressful and physical grind and just got on with it. Whilst others strut around doing nothing, not something that should be even possible in these environments. When the boss comes over and gets pissed, they respond with "I can't just work all the time, it's not fair, I need a break." While the rest of us run around carrying heavy shit and racking up injuries as we go.

For a lot of people, ignorance is bliss. They don't see or experience the things that will depress the shit out of you or prevent you from doing the things that are so abundantly available to them.

When I say this sort of thing, usually these people smugly think I'm just jealous or envious of what they have.

Well that's simply not the case. I'm grateful for what I have and the vast majority of what I do have was hard won. So I can begin to put myself in the shoes of people that have things harder than me. Then I realise that's likely the experience for a lot of people in this world particularly those that live in more deprived parts of the world than I do.

If your life has always been rainbows and lollipops, you will likely think it's the same for everyone. If it hasn't been, or the rainbows and lollipops dried up, you start to realise how real the world can be. And who could blame you for not wanting to to continue to participate any longer.

So I think there is a correlation between people who feel suicidal and people who have a less rose tinted, idealistic view of the world.

It's been said that the world is truly a crazy, inequitable place, and the only rational response is to become depressed.

 

[UseItOrLoseIt]

I can't disagree with that & I hate you!!!

 

[existtosuffer]

Biased opinion but Yes.

Existence is built on survival. Nothing lasts forever. You have to really shut out a lot of stuff about reality to remain happy with life.

 

[netrezven]

Realistic depends entirely on luck. I might be realistic to drive new and save SUV and in crash i might survive, because of that. For anyone else going home, not thinking about such a situation, not thinking about a world with crashes is still real. Or like where you are born, what family, everything finally depends on luck with or without bad realistic view.