An important message for those who think they ought to live for their parents

[Exiled spirit]

I have never understood why some people think that they're "obligated" to live for their parents even if they really want to die.

My friend, your parents are the reason why you're suffering in the first place. They brought you here in this cruel, unfair, indifferent world. They knew all the potential and inevitable harms of life and they just didn't care about you at all.

So, why would you deny yourself the right to die for the sake of the two individuals who recklessly trapped you in this unspeakably bad situation?

 

[Inferno]

I don't plan on outliving them, my mother was young when she had me, I'll be like 60 something before she dies.

 

[ChoclateIsSweet]

My mother had me young and I'm now close to her age. I'm honestly not sure how she did it, and I don't think I ever will. Through the years I've hated her for it, but as I inch closer to her age I understand her better I think.

She came from a rural and very religious 3rd country village, whether she wanted me or not she would've been forced to have me anyways. I cannot hate her for giving birth to me. She did not have a choice.

 

[botanormal]

I think it's just societally 'normal' to grow up & have children. Our parents are just following the standard that their parents set for them, like society teaches us to. I have no empathy for parents who mistreat their children, but if they're trying their best then I can't really fault them. Losing a child must be one of the hardest feelings, so I understand if somebody wanted to spare their parents that, especially if they love them. Although I still wouldn't live just to spare my parents the pain of my death lol, but to each their own!

 

[Cryptonite]

Totally agreed.

 

[botch3d]

I have never understood why some people think that they're "obligated" to live for their parents even if they really want to die.

My friend, your parents are the reason why you're suffering in the first place. They brought you here in this cruel, unfair, indifferent world. They knew all the potential and inevitable harms of life and they just didn't care about you at all.

So, why would you deny yourself the right to die for the sake of the two individuals who recklessly trapped you in this unspeakably bad situation?

They were also brought into this world with their own traumas. They weren't perfect and made mistakes but (speaking for me) they really love me. They are suffering from my suffering .

 

[Jarni]

I'd say: why we have to experience their death and not them... ?

 

[Freedom21]

I have a good relationship with my family and though I'm still trying to find a way to kill myself I feel guilt over it. I think "normal" people can't fathom this amount of suffering . I actually think if I was healthier mentally and physically I would adopt or foster. I know my depression is biological so no bio kids. I feel things deeply and I know I could love them unconditionally . My parents never thought I wouldn't be a happy child or adult . My brother and I are the ones who really got the bad deck in mental health. We were both premature maybe that had a hand in it. Suicide doesn't always feel like a choice but it is. As a parent I would wonder how things got that bad. I think parents mourn their child and also feel guilty for not being able to fix stuff for them. Idk I know my family loves me and I them. Everyone is different and all feeling are valid.

 

[dopaminedeath]

To not be selfish. They are human like you. if you empathise with them then it can be hard to place your suffering over theirs. Nobody asked to be born.

I'm talking about parents in general, they care about their children. Narcissistic/abusive parents are different.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I can't speak for other people's parents but I really don't think mine realised life was going to turn out like this. They may have had their struggles- they did- certainly but I think they really loved one another and overall- loved life. I don't think they had me to be malicious or without thought. They probably thought I would enjoy life too.

Of course- then it all went to shit. My Mum died, my Dad remaried and I ended up with a (likely) narcissistic step sibling.

Thing is- my Dad has already gone through a whole load of shit in his life. I know he loves me very much- even though he can't help me. Sure- I definitely wish I hadn't been born. I suppose I wonder how many of our parents would have had us if they knew we would end up here... but they probably didn't. I don't think it's weird to REALLY not want to hurt the people we love.

Of course- if parents are abusive or neglectful- then- that's a different story. I also don't think people who do end up CTB don't love their parents any less. It's just that they reached their breaking point and couldn't go on anymore.

 

[FuneralCry]

The reality is that nobody should feel guilty about leaving parents behind, and losing people is an inevitable consequence of choosing to bring life into this world anyway. But bringing life here and continuing this cycle of meaningless and unnecessary suffering is a disgusting and shameful thing. Those who procreate are literally creating problems and causing torture to be experienced and it's true that they don't care, not really, maybe some of them see themselves as caring but they are blinded by their own selfishness and delusion, I mean they must be in order to see it as being justified to bring life here at all. It could simply never be beneficial bringing life here, such a thing could only be a disadvantage.

Existence is the ultimate problem as it's something that harms existing beings and it's irresponsible to bring life into this awful world where chance determines everything meaning that there is no limit as to how much torment we can experience. All life never needed to exist, yet very sadly it does and parents are certainly the cause of all human suffering, so all parents should at least respect the decision to die of the humans they brought here after unfairly punishing them by forcing them into existence in the first place. No matter what continuing to exist could never be an obligation and suggesting such a thing is nonsensical.

 

[Eternal Oblivion]

Couldn't agree more. Fuck my parents, their selfishness and carelessness towards my upbringing is what led me to this point, I don't care in the slighest how they will feel when I ctb. Just don't procreate if you are not up for the task.

 

[SamTam33]

We come up with so many excuses to delay ctb, myself included.

Not wanting to hurt family/friends is just another in a long list of things we tell ourselves to keep from standing on that bridge or swallowing that gunbarrel or turning blue.

 

[lionetta12]

I have never understood why some people think that they're "obligated" to live for their parents even if they really want to die.

My friend, your parents are the reason why you're suffering in the first place. They brought you here in this cruel, unfair, indifferent world. They knew all the potential and inevitable harms of life and they just didn't care about you at all.

So, why would you deny yourself the right to die for the sake of the two individuals who recklessly trapped you in this unspeakably bad situation?

I don't really understand in general when people choose to live for others or base their life on that. Most people I know depend on their parents even if they are pretty old and do whatever their parents want them to do, I don't know what that's like as an adult, it sounds like a nightmare to me.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't really understand in general when people choose to live for others or base their life on that. Most people I know depend on their parents even if they are pretty old and do whatever their parents want them to do, I don't know what that's like as an adult, it sounds like a nightmare to me.

Not so sure it's the whole living for them- making them proud type thing. For me- it's more that I don't want to inflict pain on them. I DO know what it's like to grieve over someone. I expect it is worse when the death is a suicide. If I can manage it- I'd rather spare my Dad that.

And yes- it's 50% his 'fault' I'm here but he didn't realise things would turn out this way. I understand why people like us find that so odd but our thinking is VERY different to theirs. I expect the majority of people who have children aren't thinking that their offspring will end up here!

Of course- for the ones that do or don't seem to care- I can completely understand why people don't feel like they should care in return.

 

[Rainy_days]

My friend, your parents are the reason why you're suffering in the first place. They brought you here in this cruel, unfair, indifferent world. They knew all the potential and inevitable harms of life and they just didn't care about you at all.

I find this antinatalist absolutism to be really tiresome. If I simply declared that the whole world was caring, beautiful, and fair, people would rightly call me out on my bullshit. Likewise if I said that the "potential and inevitable" joys of life was proof that all parents cared. The world is a mixture of good and bad, as are the people that live in it.

 

[Exiled spirit]

I find this antinatalist absolutism to be really tiresome. If I simply declared that the whole world was caring, beautiful, and fair, people would rightly call me out on my bullshit. Likewise if I said that the "potential and inevitable" joys of life was proof that all parents cared. The world is a mixture of good and bad, as are the people that live in it.

I don't think the existence of "happy" lives is a good justification for creating more people who may live miserable lives. That's one of the many reasons why I'm an antinatalist. All parents didn't care for their children when they brought them into this unfair world, but that doesn't mean that they didn't care about their wellbeing later on.

 

[Tobacco]

There's a blog in the pinned resources thread (https://why-im-sold-on-antinatalism.blogspot.com/) that convinced me that my family is the main reason why I souldn't ctb. Can you imagine? It claims that a suicide is more thraumatic to people around you than you getting killed. But the strenght of that argument is contingent on the fact that society sees suicide as something negative.
I just wish that one day my mother would look me in the eyes and say "I understand that you are suffering my son. You are now free to leave this world." Imagine how different that would be. I wouldn't ctb inmediately. I would give myself 3-5 years to squeeze all the pleasure I can and then leave in peace.

 

[SeenMoreThanEnough]

I have never understood why some people think that they're "obligated" to live for their parents even if they really want to die.

My friend, your parents are the reason why you're suffering in the first place. They brought you here in this cruel, unfair, indifferent world. They knew all the potential and inevitable harms of life and they just didn't care about you at all.

So, why would you deny yourself the right to die for the sake of the two individuals who recklessly trapped you in this unspeakably bad situation?

To answer your question: It comes down to not wanting to hurt your parents emotionally. Grief-death is a real, documented thing. Not from grief itself, mind you, but a cumulative effect. The stressors and resultant self-neglect are enough to push someone who is older over the edge. Life is fragile.

My mother died four years ago. Cancer. She worked as a shipping lead-hand in a factory for 45 years. Got diagnosed, did her treatments, and tried to return. It came back with a vengeance. She died two weeks before Christmas. Shattered our family. My father still hasn't touched the bedroom they used to share. He sleeps on a special recliner I bought him after his hip surgery two years ago. Throughout all of my problems in life, be it addiction, depression, or financial -- my father has been the one person who has been there and supported me as best he could...this is despite plenty of emotional abuse in my younger years. But forget all that -- as sick as I am now, I will be DAMNED if I'm going to do my father like that -- it would fucking crush him. I'll fight. Might win, might lose..But I'll fight. So that's 'why'. Hope that answered your question.

 

[Exiled spirit]

There's a blog in the pinned resources thread (https://why-im-sold-on-antinatalism.blogspot.com/) that convinced me that my family is the main reason why I souldn't ctb. Can you imagine? It claims that a suicide is more thraumatic to people around you than you getting killed. But the strenght of that argument is contingent on the fact that society sees suicide as something negative.
I just wish that one day my mother would look me in the eyes and say "I understand that you are suffering my son. You are now free to leave this world." Imagine how different that would be. I wouldn't ctb inmediately. I would give myself 3-5 years to squeeze all the pleasure I can and then leave in peace.

You don't need your mother or me or anyone to tell you: "I understand your suffering. You are now free to leave this world".

You suffer and you have the right to die in a peaceful manner.

Your parents brought you here knowing that this horrible world can lead you to take your own live.

So, it's nonsensical to live against your will just to please the two individuals who put you in that predicament in the first place.

Now, some people may say: "well, maybe your parents were brainwashed by society's bullshit"

And to those I respond: "well, even if this was the case, it's not my fault that my parents were brainwashed."

The bottom line is:

It will be nice of you if you abstain from ending your life for the sake of your parents/friends, but you're NOT obligated to do so.

Live if you want. Die if you want. It's your life, your choice.

To answer your question: It comes down to not wanting to hurt your parents emotionally. Grief-death is a real, documented thing. Not from grief itself, mind you, but a cumulative effect. The stressors and resultant self-neglect are enough to push someone who is older over the edge. Life is fragile.

My mother died four years ago. Cancer. She worked as a shipping lead-hand in a factory for 45 years. Got diagnosed, did her treatments, and tried to return. It came back with a vengeance. She died two weeks before Christmas. Shattered our family. My father still hasn't touched the bedroom they used to share. He sleeps on a special recliner I bought him after his hip surgery two years ago. Throughout all of my problems in life, be it addiction, depression, or financial -- my father has been the one person who has been there and supported me as best he could...this is despite plenty of emotional abuse in my younger years. But forget all that -- as sick as I am now, I will be DAMNED if I'm going to do my father like that -- it would fucking crush him. I'll fight. Might win, might lose..But I'll fight. So that's 'why'. Hope that answered your question.

No, this clearly did not answer my question.

I'm not asking: "why didn't you kill yourself?"

I'm asking: "why do you deny yourself the right to die for your parents' sake? Or Why do you think you're "obligated" to live for them?"

There's a HUGE difference between the two questions.

 

[BlackWednesday]

Living to protect people's feelings isn't a very good reason to live at all. Having said that, I do worry about how it would affect my dad if I were to CTB. From a purely selfish perspective I would prefer to die than to continue living but when I think about how it would affect other people it puts me off. I don't know what I should do.

 

[Wannagonow]

I was the first born. My parents planned on having me and were looking forward to being parents. Sometimes the best laid plans just don't work out. My childhood (and beyond) was at times terrible, hurtful and full of emotional abuse from my mother. This helped make me the non-confident, fearful and non- functioning person I am today. For the last 7-8 years we watched my mom suffer and ultimately pass away from alzheimers (last year). As much as her actions scarred me for life, I spent the last year before the nursing home doing fun things with her. She didn't remember how she treated me. I set it aside to bring her joy while she could participate. She was my mom. (Yeah, lots of therapy there). I love my dad. I don't want him to hurt because I CTB. But, I also don't feel obligated to wait. But if I can, I will. He's my dad.

 

[SeenMoreThanEnough]

No, this clearly did not answer my question.

I'm not asking: "why didn't you kill yourself?"

I'm asking: "why do you deny yourself the right to die for your parents' sake? Or Why do you think you're "obligated" to live for them?"

There's a HUGE difference between the two questions.

I thought I described it the best I could.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I like my parents for the most part and i'm sad that I'm going to hurt them.

 

[Rainy_days]

I don't think the existence of "happy" lives is a good justification for creating more people who may live miserable lives.

Are the quotes because you don't believe happy lives exist?

All parents didn't care for their children when they brought them into this unfair world, but that doesn't mean that they didn't care about their wellbeing later on.

Do you realize that many if not most people want to be in this world despite it not being perfectly fair? I'm sure you have plenty of good and valid reasons to not want to be in this world, but to generalize your emotions onto all of humanity and then sit in high judgment is really juvenile and arrogant.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

There's nothing wrong with life as a whole. It's just extremely sucky for our specific group who are on here.

Some parents genuinely do have good intentions when they bring children into this world.

That being said, I agree that living for other people is not a valid reason to live.

 

[Green Destiny]

I'm somewhat caught in the middle with something like this. I found out years ago that I was an unplanned pregnancy and my parents had me just because. They do still care about me and my siblings despite having a very unpleasant divorce. At the same time I'm completely baffled at how and why my parents got together and had kids, people do change over the years but Jesus it makes no sense to me in what my mom and dad saw in each other.

Point is that my parents probably could have stopped at 2 kids and nothing much changes. My life completely revolves around my mom's life for worse and worse. Not a life worth dealing with imo.

 

[hellgirlredux]

For me I think my parents were caught up in the whole societal thing of needing to have kids after you get married. So I do not see it as their fault. I am sort of trapped here, yes, but I will talk to my mother and brother (dad died so I can't ask him) and one surviving grandmother before I ctb. I don't need their permission, but it is important that they know what is going to happen and they can ask me their questions about why I want to die while I am still alive. I need to be satisfied that they understand and that I will not be psychologically damaging them before I die. My mum is traumatized from losing her husband and my brother from losing his dad. They are at risk of suicide and complicated grief if I die due to having lost my dad 5 years ago. If I do not make sure they will be okay before I die I will be too gulity to go through with dying. It would be abusive for me to cause my already drug and alcohol addicted brother to commit suicide as a result of me committing suicide. I do not need permission to die but it's important to die well, and dying ethically with a clear conscience and without guilt is dying well indeed.

 

[Hecuba]

I apologize, but this is a very ignorant and childish way to think about it. The world is different to everybody. To some it is cruel and to some it is not. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with having children. As there is nothing intrinsically wrong with an adult deciding to CTB. But they should own it. Including the fact that, while completely fair, it is still a selfish act towards whoever is going to be affected.

 

[Exiled spirit]

For me I think my parents were caught up in the whole societal thing of needing to have kids after you get married. So I do not see it as their fault. I am sort of trapped here, yes, but I will talk to my mother and brother (dad died so I can't ask him) and one surviving grandmother before I ctb. I don't need their permission, but it is important that they know what is going to happen and they can ask me their questions about why I want to die while I am still alive. I need to be satisfied that they understand and that I will not be psychologically damaging them before I die. My mum is traumatized from losing her husband and my brother from losing his dad. They are at risk of suicide and complicated grief if I die due to having lost my dad 5 years ago. If I do not make sure they will be okay before I die I will be too gulity to go through with dying. It would be abusive for me to cause my already drug and alcohol addicted brother to commit suicide as a result of me committing suicide. I do not need permission to die but it's important to die well, and dying ethically with a clear conscience and without guilt is dying well indeed.

I completely agree with you. The Idea that you're not obligated to live for your parents doesn't mean that you shouldn't take their feelings into consideration. I think you have the right to die, but I also believe you should make it as less traumatizing as possible. In other words, don't harm people unnecessary.

I apologize, but this is a very ignorant and childish way to think about it. The world is different to everybody. To some it is cruel and to some it is not. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with having children. As there is nothing intrinsically wrong with an adult deciding to CTB. But they should own it. Including the fact that, while completely fair, it is still a selfish act towards whoever is going to be affected.

Do you realize that many if not most people want to be in this world despite it not being perfectly fair? I'm sure you have plenty of good and valid reasons to not want to be in this world, but to generalize your emotions onto all of humanity and then sit in high judgment is really juvenile and arrogant.

Tell that to Junko Furuta, Hisashi ouchi, Sylvia Likens, Channon Christian, Christopher Newsom, Andrew Gardner, Kelly Anne Bates, and other countless victims of this world.

Tell them:

"It was perfectly fine for your parents to brought you in this insanely unfair and dangerous world because there are others who love their lives. Antinatalists are arrogant, ignorant, childish, and obviously judgemental."