Afterlife proof?

[KCN]

Nihilism and atheism were both tailored specifically for children.

lol

The eternal void VS marshmallow land, idk what's more childish

 

[Xmac000]

Nihilism and atheism were both tailored specifically for children.

Were they really?

 

[Xmac000]

After all the important thing is that we all know YOU are right. Selfish until the end.

Their persistence is quite suspicious. Pro-lifers using eternal oblivion to scare people out of ctbing? I think most people at their breaking point will do it anyway. I personally stopped caring about the outcome not too long ago. Like someone else said earlier absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and its true. How can you be so sure there is no afterlife. No evidence of one is not evidence that one doesnt exist. End of discussion or at least it should be (doubt it).

 

[Fylobatica]

Their persistence is quite suspicious. Pro-lifers using eternal oblivion to scare people out of ctbing? I think most people at their breaking point will do it anyway. I personally stopped caring about the outcome not too long ago. Like someone else said earlier absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and its true. How can you be so sure there is no afterlife. No evidence of one is not evidence that one doesnt exist. End of discussion or at least it should be (doubt it).

I think you haven't read the whole discussion because there was a consistent effort to show that some kind of evidence, actually, exists.

 

[Lisa]

For the billionth time, these are not theories.

There's an empirical background.

https://pnas.org/content/early/2013/08/08/1308285110.full.pdf

And that's from 2013, things have evolved further in neurophysical research and are giving substantial proof that consciousness can be explained considering the whole physical functions of the brain

This link does not work. I clicked on it and it doesn't open

 

[Jonnydoeuk]

Why die if there's an afterlife it doesent make sense why not just live forever now ?? No I really don't believe there to be an afterlife it's unfathomable

 

[nopoint]

I am not the right person to answer, as I hallucinate things even with medication. I used to think there was some sort of meaning until I realized what it was.

Anyways, thinking there is nothing after death used to work for me as an antidote to suicide, making me take more time to reflect. In the end, I feel forced to believe I don't know what happens when we die, because if I start to believe there is nothing after death I am don't think I can kill myself, it's like you are losing your only opportunity, one you are not seeing, like cryogenics or stuff like that. That's why I sort of reject people with those extreme atheist perceptions.

One thing is to say "may be", another thing is to be sure of something. I prefer not to be sure of death, whatever it ends up being.

Wow That's an interesting perception that's opposite of mine. I don't believe in an afterlife, and that gives me comfort. Life is hell, so why would I want to die and "live" another life? I know I just get one chance in life, but I need out. I believe in survival of the fittest, and I'm not fit to survive.

 

[nopoint]

I think you haven't read the whole discussion because there was a consistent effort to show that some kind of evidence, actually, exists.

I don't think you can win against people who can't differentiate between actual scientific evidence and pseudoscience. This debate reminds me a lot of the debate that Bill Nye and Ken Ham had regarding the origin of life. As Ken Ham said, even if there is evidence suggesting the absence of God, he will not lose his faith. People will believe what they want, and no amount of evidence can alter their faith in their beliefs. You can't change them, but I applaud your effort.

 

[Xmac000]

I don't think you can win against people who can't differentiate between actual scientific evidence and pseudoscience. This debate reminds me a lot of the debate that Bill Nye and Ken Ham had regarding the origin of life. As Ken Ham said, even if there is evidence suggesting the absence of God, he will not lose his faith. People will believe what they want, and no amount of evidence can alter their faith in their beliefs. You can't change them, but I applaud your effort.

Once its a universal truth then ill and I'm sure many others will accept it. Like the earth being round instead of flat. Most of the world believes that its round and for good reason. Theres also a reason why majority of the world does believe in some religion still desipite your evidence. If your evidence was indisputable then we'd have more people believing it. They'd be the majority not the other way around. Why is it then that majority of the world are willing to accept the truth that the earth is round but not that there is no afterlife, souls, etc. Because the evidence is just not there thats why.

 

[Xmac000]

Why die if there's an afterlife it doesent make sense why not just live forever now ?? No I really don't believe there to be an afterlife it's unfathomable

It does make sense. Some people get stuck in this life with no way of escaping their situation. It would be better to die and live another life where you are not stuck or which is more favorable than your current life. You as a suicidal should know this more than anyone.

 

[Xmac000]

I think you haven't read the whole discussion because there was a consistent effort to show that some kind of evidence, actually, exists.

Read my above post. The evidence is just not there. Thats why majority of people are more lnclined to believe that the earth is round for example yet the majority of people aren't inclined to believe there are no souls, gods, etc. We wouldn't have this large divide between believers and non-believers if we had concrete proof and evidence that there isn't one.

 

[Fylobatica]

Read my above post. The evidence is just not there. Thats why majority of people are more lnclined to believe that the earth is round for example yet the majority of people aren't inclined to believe there are no souls, gods, etc. We wouldn't have this large divide between believers and non-believers if we had concrete proof and evidence that there isn't one.

I'll hope this will be the last time I have to repeat it. Evidence of a strict connection between our consciousness and the physical brain exists. Once the brain is dismantled, it's over.

To be more specific, read the paper named "Low-Gamma Oscillations Are Coupled to Theta and Alpha Waves
Following Cardiac Arrest." It shows all the empirical data you need, about the explanations of NDEs, the need of an organized brain activity as a source of lucid dreaming and ultimately our personality, our sense of self. Neural correlates are needed a priori, after death you wouldn't be able to "pop out" your consciousness anywhere because this strict correlation within the brain and the surge of our subjective experience, as it happens in other animal species.

 

[Xmac000]

I'll hope this will be the last time I have to repeat it. Evidence of a strict connection between our consciousness and the physical brain exists. Once the brain is dismantled, it's over.

To be more specific, read the paper named "Low-Gamma Oscillations Are Coupled to Theta and Alpha Waves
Following Cardiac Arrest." It shows all the empirical data you need, about the explanations of NDEs, the need of an organized brain activity as a source of lucid dreaming and ultimately our personality, our sense of self. Neural correlates are needed a priori, after death you wouldn't be able to "pop out" your consciousness anywhere because this strict correlation within the brain and the surge of our subjective experience, as it happens in other animal species.

Your evidence is not indisputable. Thats what I'm trying to tell you. Thats why so many people in this thread are unwilling to accept it. Thats why your not winning awards right now. If i took this evidence you have given me in this thread and presented it to the world will most people accept it? No. Thats not concrete evidence. I"ll depict what you have presented here...

"about the explanations of NDEs"
How can we know for a fact that these NDEs are really just hallucinations. That article tries to explain that but how do i know its true and not miscalculated information.

"the need of an organized brain activity as a source of lucid dreaming"

How do we really know this? We have no way of monitoring our dreams. Don't tell me because technology herp derp. Thats not cutting it. Our technology can't recoginize thought patterns or show our thought processes. If they could we'd be reading peoples minds by now. I'm skeptical on any machine that man claims to be able to monitor the mind.

Maybe its because I'm a huge skeptic and that could very well be the problem but i don't think those articles you posted are enough to convince the majority of the world that there is no afterlife. If you think it is then take it up with higher authorities, not us. As someone else said the best position to take on this is agnosticism until we have better evidence than that.

 

[Fylobatica]

Your evidence is not indisputable. Thats what I'm trying to tell you. Thats why so many people in this thread are unwilling to accept it. Thats why your not winning awards right now. If i took this evidence you have given me in this thread and presented it to the world will most people accept it? No. Thats not concrete evidence. I"ll depict what you have presented here...

of course not, they have to defend their fairytales about eternal marshmallow land, as some other user has previously said.
To them, the mere chance of nothingness is unfathomable. Too scary, huh.

. I"ll depict what you have presented here...

you don't need to. The aim of these papers is to give us a substantial framework to begin our understanding of consciousness as a brain epiphenomenon, not a floating entity coming from the middle of nowhere. And they succeed in doing so.

 

[nopoint]

Once its a universal truth then ill and I'm sure many others will accept it. Like the earth being round instead of flat. Most of the world believes that its round and for good reason. Theres also a reason why majority of the world does believe in some religion still desipite your evidence. If your evidence was indisputable then we'd have more people believing it. They'd be the majority not the other way around. Why is it then that majority of the world are willing to accept the truth that the earth is round but not that there is no afterlife, souls, etc. Because the evidence is just not there thats why.

Believe whatever you want. I don't think everybody needs to reach a consensus as to whether afterlife exists or not. If you want to believe in an afterlife, go for it. I'm not imposing my views on you nor am I judging your beliefs. I was just commenting on the debate as a whole and not the topic itself.

 

[Xmac000]

Believe whatever you want. I don't think everybody needs to reach a consensus as to whether afterlife exists or not. If you want to believe in an afterlife, go for it. I'm not imposing my views on you nor am I judging your beliefs. I was just commenting on the debate as a whole and not the topic itself.

Not everybody but if we can get the majority to reach a consensus of the truth (whatever that may be) then we will be better off as history itself has shown.

 

[nopoint]

Not everybody but if we can get the majority to reach a consensus of the truth (whatever that may be) then we will be better off as history itself has shown.

I think that will be extremely difficult. This is basically going back to the debate of the existence of a higher power. I don't think we will be able to reach a consensus on that topic.

 

[Xmac000]

to give us a substantial framework to begin our understanding of consciousness

Its a good start, but still not enough. We may never get enough evidence. Consciousness is one of those things that has eluded humanity for centuries. Every discovery we make along the way to solving consciousness and the mind/body problem just throws up hundreds of new questions. Ya know?

 

[Fylobatica]

and the mind/body problem just throws up hundreds of new questions

I don't see how dualism could be considered even an option, considering the evolutive history of our brain since the first flagellates that appeared 850 million years ago.

signing off for today, I don't think this thread will lead anywhere, after hundreds of posts.

 

[Xmac000]

I don't see how dualism could be considered even an option, considering the evolutive history of our brain since the first flagellates that appeared 850 million years ago.

You've mentioned that multiple times now. I admittiedly didnt read that particular article about it. I want to read the article now since it seems to have you convinced and i want to know why. Do you mind posting it again for me? I dont feel like digging through all eight pages to find it.

Edit: nvm i found it. It's on the first page lol. Any more articles about it you can source me?

 

[Xmac000]

I don't see how dualism could be considered even an option, considering the evolutive history of our brain since the first flagellates that appeared 850 million years ago.

signing off for today, I don't think this thread will lead anywhere, after hundreds of posts.

"Thanks to the latest technologies, though, we can now trace the brain's evolution in unprecedented detail, from a time before the very first nerve cells right up to the age of cave art and cubism"

Got that straight out of the article. I already depicted that above. I"ll quote it for you in a sec but this evidence is coming from our latest technology. Heres the quoted text..

Don't tell me because technology herp derp. Thats not cutting it. Our technology can't recoginize thought patterns or show our thought processes. If they could we'd be reading peoples minds by now. I'm skeptical on any machine that man claims to be able to monitor the mind.

I don't believe our current technology is capable of tracing back the brains evolution that far. Dont believe everything you read. I"ll continue reading the article and give you my opinion on the matter.

 

[Lisa]

Once its a universal truth then ill and I'm sure many others will accept it. Like the earth being round instead of flat. Most of the world believes that its round and for good reason. Theres also a reason why majority of the world does believe in some religion still desipite your evidence. If your evidence was indisputable then we'd have more people believing it. They'd be the majority not the other way around. Why is it then that majority of the world are willing to accept the truth that the earth is round but not that there is no afterlife, souls, etc. Because the evidence is just not there thats why.

Well put

 

[Lisa]

"Thanks to the latest technologies, though, we can now trace the brain's evolution in unprecedented detail, from a time before the very first nerve cells right up to the age of cave art and cubism"

Got that straight out of the article. I already depicted that above. I"ll quote it for you in a sec but this evidence is coming from our latest technology. Heres the quoted text..



I don't believe our current technology is capable of tracing back the brains evolution that far. Dont believe everything you read. I"ll continue reading the article and give you my opinion on the matter.

You are exactly right.
It's difficult for some to process what they read objectively because they are rigid in their belief system.

 

[Lisa]

You know what?

I started this thread looking for people to share experiences that show that an afterlife might exist.

Communications from relatives who have died, nde's, spirit sightings or communications, things of this nature.

I'm glad we are all getting out of our system the afterlife debate.

But if anyone has any experiences to share, please do. I know a couple of you have here, and thank you.

The story about the old lady really got me. If you could say more on that I'd be interested.

And if those who don't believe the stories could just not hate on them, that would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[6477244ts5]

I wish I could say I had some proof. The family member I loved the most in life and who never hurt me or treated me poorly has been dead a while. I am positive that if he COULD contact me and reassure me he would and I have asked many times. So while it's no conclusive evidence of anything it makes me FEEL like even if there IS something those who moved on cannot reach into this world.

 

[Lisa]

I wish I could say I had some proof. The family member I loved the most in life and who never hurt me or treated me poorly has been dead a while. I am positive that if he COULD contact me and reassure me he would and I have asked many times. So while it's no conclusive evidence of anything it makes me FEEL like even if there IS something those who moved on cannot reach into this world.

I'm so sorry for your immense loss.

I have had an immense loss myself. I have had communications. In one dream, he cane over my house to have dinner. Everything seemed normal until when he sat down I noticed that he was made of light. I'm usually a blunt person and in my head I told myself, "don't say anything that's rude if you tell him that he is made of light and that you noticed it."

So as he was pulling his chair in he sort of put his head down and swallowed and then he said to me "you'll be with me soon." It's honestly all I have left in this world. And I am clinging to that. I hope that it is real. And I hope that it is true. I have had many many many more experiences throughout my life ever since I was a little child. So my belief is that there is something after this. However this is not conclusive proof. I did have an experience that is inexplicable and that there are witnesses to. I don't know if I should share because it would definitely identify me. But this world was effected by the other in an irrefutable way. So my belief is very strong. But I do understand that for the human mind it is so hard to conceive of how we could possibly die from here and exist continually thereafter. I can't ubderstand it. But everyone will find out someday...

You might want to try this. Talk to the loved one you lost and ask them to come see you in a dream. Ask them to make sure you remember the dream. Do this anytime you think of them and they probably will come. They might not be coming because it might not be your ideal time to go and if they reveal themselves to you, you might go sooner than you should.

 

[6477244ts5]

My dreams tend to be bad ones about things I am worried about, can't let go of. I can't say I have ever had a pleasant or communicative dream so even if that's possible I think my head is too messy for it to happen.

I have no idea what is or isn't. I do HOPE there is something and it's good. I don't want to be reincarnated, I don't want to disappear from existence...yet anyway, and I don't want punishment. I just hope it's something amazing and makes sense of all this.

 

[Lisa]

My dreams tend to be bad ones about things I am worried about, can't let go of. I can't say I have ever had a pleasant or communicative dream so even if that's possible I think my head is too messy for it to happen.

I have no idea what is or isn't. I do HOPE there is something and it's good. I don't want to be reincarnated, I don't want to disappear from existence...yet anyway, and I don't want punishment. I just hope it's something amazing and makes sense of all this.

Me2

 

[KCN]

as it happens in other animal species.

you nailed it here. it's an important detail because considering how multicellular animals evolved, thus taking into account how the transmission of chemicals in their vestigial brain started to happen, you'd basically have to postulate that neurotransmitters like GABA or glutammate have their own 'afterlife' as well, making the need for a brain completely useless.

 

[Fylobatica]

you nailed it here. it's an important detail because considering how multicellular animals evolved, thus taking into account how the transmission of chemicals in their vestigial brain started to happen, you'd basically have to postulate that neurotransmitters like GABA or glutammate have their own 'afterlife' as well, making the need for a brain completely useless.

That was exactly my point, the brain needs an articulate, plastic and organized physical structure to work properly.

I'm however not interested in the thread anymore, since as it shows in most comment people who want to push forward the 'afterlife' theories ignoring more than half of the underlying physics of the brain and how its evolution happened (it can be traced back to multicellular primitive lifeforms as you said) are those who want 'comfort' or such, which is a thing that I do not need as a primary necessity.
I care for what it's more likely to happen, and that's nothingness after death, considering all the data gathered until now. Now I'm back doing other things, thanks for answering.