100% Instant Painless Death?

[Arak]

I suppose it doesn´t really belong in this thread, but any thoughts about drinking 200 ml or 300 ml of this vet N ? (2 or 3 bottles) taste isn´t going to be an issue, but absorption, effectiveness, (not) vomiting etc.

 

[dandan]

I suppose it doesn´t really belong in this thread, but any thoughts about drinking 200 ml or 300 ml of this vet N ? (2 or 3 bottles) taste isn´t going to be an issue, but absorption, effectiveness, (not) vomiting etc.

absorption, effectiveness? If the person do not vomit... it is said that NOBODY has survived 12g of N (2 bottles)

No vomiting? antiemetic is 100% required - follow instructions

even the most brave guy, who even has drank his own piss as a medicinal alternative... N is totally worst and more disgusting...
200ml have to be drank in less than 1 or 2 minutes because you take the risk of falling asleep and not finishing the 200 300ml...

 

[Arak]

@dandan ,

You're wong on multiple counts. You're not reading correctly. At least some people have survived 12 gr for various reasons. This has been mentioned in more than in post, see forum history.
I did try some N and the taste wasn't all that bad. That's me.

 

[Jupiter]

At least some people have survived 12 gr for various reasons

No. Not for various reasons. The few that have been saved survived because they were found immediately after taking N.

 

[zadig777]

If I cut your dick off, does your dick still feel something? Of course it does as it's still has some blood an oxygen, and you know this is true because if the doctor reattaches your dick to you then you can still feel it because it never died in the first place. Because if your dick didn't feel anything then it would truly be dead, and there would be no way of reattaching it. But we all know the story of that guy that guy his dick reattached. Same for your brain. Meaning just as you can cut your dick off and your dick will still feel some pain separate from the body so will your brains act the same way.

this is the most morronic post i have read in a while

 

[Arak]

@Jupiter ,

There is one case that described a man being 'rescued' by his wife 7 hours after he had taken a dose of about 12 mg N.

Someone (private conversation) stated that 'outright failures' were 'rare'. Not that they didn't happen. Then there are the Dignitas and Dutch stats. Some people were alive after 2 hours, in the Dutch' studies the doctor usually applied euthanasia. We don't know if some would have survived without that action.

 

[Chinaski]

@Jupiter ,

There is one case that described a man being 'rescued' by his wife 7 hours after he had taken a dose of about 12 mg N.

It states in pretty much all the literature that twelve hours is required for certainty, just like any method involving ingesting a poison there is a time window which, if interrupted, results in failure. What you're saying here is not new news or a reason to avoid N as a method. Like all methods, it needs doing right, is all.

 

[Jupiter]

There is one case that described a man being 'rescued' by his wife 7 hours after he had taken a dose of about 12 mg N

This is a post someone posted online in 2009. This story has already been discussed here.
He did not say he drank 12mg of N. He said he drank two bottles, 630ml each. That would have been almost 1.3 liters! And don't tell me now he could not get the records straight because he probably was American.
Later in his post he claims that the cold outside in the garage had an effect on the viscosity of the N. Sure, because his body temperature of 37C could not warm up the N enough. I call that bs.
But if you want to believe everything that is written online it's up to you.

 

[GeorgeJL]

this is the most morronic post i have read in a while

Oh yeah, you think it's so easy explaining this? Then you explain how if you shoot yourself brains out how that is peaceful? Chew on that.

 

[zadig777]

its peacefull cause u dont feel pain more than if i have to guess 1 second?
its subjectivelly peacefull meaning u dont feel pain the person who commits suicide
but its not peacefull for the observers


u said in ur posts u dont plan on killing urself in the comming years
why are u even here

to feast on people?

u should not be on this forum imo

this is for people who want to die soon not for people to have fun

 

[GeorgeJL]

its peacefull cause u dont feel pain more than if i have to guess 1 second?
its subjectivelly peacefull meaning u dont feel pain the person who commits suicide
but its not peacefull for the observers


u said in ur posts u dont plan on killing urself in the comming years
why are u even here

to feast on people?

u should not be on this forum imo

this is for people who want to die soon not for people to have fun

You don't know me. I have been near death in the past and have dealt with severe depression and depersonalization disorder in the past. And even though I am doing much better now I have N in my refrigerator right now ready to use if my health turns south. And BTW attacking me is is a straw-man argument from the real argument. I have advised many on how they can end their life. Providing links and everything. But I am also very much against any undignified means of suicide.

And BTW I don't think you proved anything in your post. If you blow your brains out most of the cells still has some oxygen and blood left. The feeling of pain is decentralized and centralized, so pain is not only processed by some module in the brain, it's also processed independently of the brains modules. Meaning pain is also objective, it can be anywhere in the body or mind regardless of the brain processing signals as long as it has oxygen and blood.

What It's Like to Get Shot in the Head
"Did you feel pain? Oh yeah. A lot of pain."
[URL="http://www.vice.com/en_us/article/gqm4yq/what-its-like-to-get-shot-in-the-head[/URL]"]www.vice.com/en_us/article/gqm4yq/what-its-like-to-get-shot-in-the-head[/URL]

If you are still adamant about shooting yourself then processed at your own risk of loosing your dignity. Because if your right then it doesn't really matter, but if I am right then you risk feeling like getting smashed the head in your last seconds of life. Proceed at your own risk.

 

[zadig777]

You don't know me. I have been near death in the past and have dealt with severe depression and depersonalization disorder in the past. And even though I am doing much better now I have N in my refrigerator right now ready to use if my health turns south. And BTW attacking me is is a straw-man argument from the real argument. I have advised many on how they can end their life. Providing links and everything. But I am also very much against any undignified means of suicide.

And BTW I don't think you proved anything in your post. If you blow your brains out most of the cells still has some oxygen and blood left. The feeling of pain is decentralized and centralized, so pain is not only processed by some module in the brain, it's also processed independently of the brains modules. Meaning pain is also objective, it can be anywhere in the body or mind regardless of the brain processing signals as long as it has oxygen and blood.

What It's Like to Get Shot in the Head
"Did you feel pain? Oh yeah. A lot of pain."
[URL="http://www.vice.com/en_us/article/gqm4yq/what-its-like-to-get-shot-in-the-head[/URL]"]www.vice.com/en_us/article/gqm4yq/what-its-like-to-get-shot-in-the-head[/URL]

If you are still adamant about shooting yourself then processed at your own risk of loosing your dignity. Because if your right then it doesn't really matter, but if I am right then you risk feeling like getting smashed the head in your last seconds of life. Proceed at your own risk.

im not gonna die by blowing my self off
i agree with u on many points including the dignity aspect
u and i cant discuss about pain perception cause we are not knowledgeable enough in this area to begin with

u speak mostly thru internet articles,but do u have practical knowledge about any of this

u mentioned that SN death is 7/10 peaceful
is there any medical/professional evidence about this,im interested to read

thank u

 

[Idorus]

Is anyone aware of a ´´black donor market´´ on the darknet? I´m considering offering my heart in exchange for a death under anaesthesia. It can´t be more peaceful and they can fully fill their pockets. I´m willing to travel to the other end of the world and I would appreciate company for the same goal. Who else?

I ain´t so far from this reality as I thought. There´s a big shortage of organ donors in my country. The "Organ donation after euthanasia" (ODE) guideline was presented in March 2017. I just read a detailed (medical) report about such a case (40 yr old man) and I was pretty sold at first impression. I loved the medical care and how it was all implemented and performed. How the anesthesia depth was monitored the entire time etc.... gosh this all sounded nice. I guess that´s what I miss with regular euthanasia/ass-suicide; being closely monitored to ensure deep anesthesia. The entire process of this transplantation- death event started at the 40 yr old´s home....during a final glas of wine and a sigaret he fell asleep on his mom´s lap after 35 mg midazolam pre-medica.

 

[Chinaski]

And BTW attacking me is is a straw-man argument from the real argument. I have advised many on how they can end their life. Providing links and everything.

It's not a "strawman", besides which your enthusiasm for "helping" people, with so much evident pride and self-satisfaction as if you're some kind of self-appointed ctb guru, despite your own admission that you're not suicidal could possibly be seen as a tad ghoulish.

 

[GeorgeJL]

im not gonna die by blowing my self off
i agree with u on many points including the dignity aspect
u and i cant discuss about pain perception cause we are not knowledgeable enough in this area to begin with

u speak mostly thru internet articles,but do u have practical knowledge about any of this

u mentioned that SN death is 7/10 peaceful
is there any medical/professional evidence about this,im interested to read

thank u

OK so it seems that your initial response was over the top when you said it was moronic. And yes I agree that both of us are not experts in this field but we can use some common sense and reason based on what we do know. It's not like we are trying to explain rocket science.

As far as SN being 7/10 on the peacefulness scale, well that is in the PPH.

PPeH2020 - Google Drive

drive.google.com

That rating is based off of case studies/anecdotal evidence. That is why we need more people to liveblog their suicide with it.

 

[Olach]

Bump.

Still looking for an insightful answer to this.

Everyone here thinks hanging or other methods are painless. Seen some gruesome stuff on Ogrish from ways back and reddit.

Again, if anyone can come up with something that's plausible I'd like to know.

I'd imagine suffocation "stop breathing" is painful regardless of being awake/conscious or not. That's how we associate death clinical or not. All methods require this and I'd rather be literally vaporized than to feel any type of "possible" last agony scenario. No brain matter from shotgun. Just gone.

Thoughts?

Besides me, the best method is a pill cocktail.
I would ctb with chloroquine cocktail.
Antiemetics + sleep pills + chloroquine = unconsciousness in 10 to 30 min and death within 3 hours

 

[GeorgeJL]

It's not a "strawman", besides which your enthusiasm for "helping" people, with so much evident pride and self-satisfaction as if you're some kind of self-appointed ctb guru, despite your own admission that you're not suicidal could possibly be seen as a tad ghoulish.

ghoulish LOL yes I am interested in death. I have been for years ever since I attempted to cut my arm open in a warm bathtub filled with warm water at 6 AM in the morning. I was so out of it that I didn't even feel the pain when I was cutting my arm open. And I was so dehydrated that I couldn't even bleed much blood out. So trust me I know a thing or two about what it's like to be on the edge of death. I was hallucinating for a month before I tried to kill myself in the bathtub. I remember falling asleep on the couch and when I woke up it was like a whole new consciousness entered me, meaning it felt like my spirit consciousness left my body and brain and a new conscious awareness was entering my body. I was experiencing a psychotic breakdown of epic proportions. And it was drug induced. You see I was very thin due to a health condition so I brought some testosterone off the Internet and injected myself, and in two months time I was hallucinating. And before that I lost so much weight that I was bound to the couch. I used a wheelchair and a cane for years. So I know what it's like to be on the edge of death. In some ways I probably understand death and dignity more so than many of you here. I know what it's like to loose your dignity and trust me it's not pretty. And even though I went to the hospital and got better. I gained a bunch of weight and I'm pretty healthy these days I still suffer from some of the damage that occurred back then. Like I have tinnitus, and central sensitization in my right foot. And I still take medication.

On a positive note, I do many other good things too, like research about all the new technologies that are going to save the world as we are about to enter a new age. I am also very much into psychedelics, DMT, astral projection, meditation, philosophy, and spirituality along with being a universalist when it comes to religion. So it's a nice balance of yin and yang. Death and life. And in doing that I gain the best prospective on life. I've have learned even more about depression and suicide since I first started coming to suicide forums about a year ago. Before that I was into the right to die movement. Compassion and choices etc. Anyway.....

And maybe your right about the strawman thing. LOL I've heard it used like how I used it up there though. I do know that the argument he used by attacking my character was a logical fallacy though for sure.

 

[Chinaski]

That is why we need more people to liveblog their suicide with it.

Who are the "we" you're referring to? Personally l don't need anyone to turn their death into an essentially pointless performance piece for suicide fetishists, this enthusiasm for liveblogged suicide is genuinely disturbing.

 

[GeorgeJL]

Who are the "we" you're referring to? Personally l don't need anyone to turn their death into an essentially pointless performance piece for suicide fetishists, this enthusiasm for liveblogged suicide is genuinely disturbing.

It comes from a deep desire to end suffering and give people the most dignified exit from life if that is what they want because of what I have suffering in my past. So the sooner we get a reliable cheap legal effective peaceful method the better. And so I believe livebloggging SN suicides is a great way to do that. There is nothing mysterious about my desire to advise others on suicide. Let me be very clear, if someone wants to live, I will never force the idea of suicide on them.

 

[Chinaski]

And so I believe livebloggging SN suicides is a great way to do that.

Liveblogging a ctb is evidence of nothing more than somebody typed some words. Utterly worthless deed, and the idea that you hope for suicide liveblogs because muh research is downright macabre.

 

[GeorgeJL]

Liveblogging a ctb is evidence of nothing more than somebody typed some words. Utterly worthless deed, and the idea that you hope for suicide liveblogs because muh research is downright macabre.

IDK what your talking about I'm trying to prevent macabre deaths giving peaceful alternatives.

 

[Ruffian]

Closest thing is explosives or a train.

I would like to do thectrain but frankly it scares me. Theres a fence in the middle and I'm afraid I couldn't vault over it inntime.

 

[Chinaski]

IDK what your talking about I'm trying to prevent macabre deaths giving peaceful alternatives.

You say this, and you seem to rely on the fact that you've "helped" people online with high quality advice and info for a year out of sheer altruism, yet all l see is a clamour for liveblogged death. If you want to be perceived as some kindly and learned advisor to the suicidal and not just some random morbid fetishist you might want to intersperse your enthusiasm for livestreamed death throes with some genuine insight, as opposed to this kind of banal crap which doesn't aid anyone:

Nitrogen/helium hood is fast and usually pretty painless. Or carbon monoxide but CM can be tricky to get right.

Hell no. Nembutal is king. Nembutal is used by swiss euthanasia group dignatis.

 

[GeorgeJL]

You say this, and you seem to rely on the fact that you've "helped" people online with high quality advice and info for a year out of sheer altruism, yet all l see is a clamour for liveblogged death. If you want to be perceived as some kindly and learned advisor to the suicidal and not just some random morbid fetishist you might want to intersperse your enthusiasm for livestreamed death throes with some genuine insight, as opposed to this kind of banal crap which doesn't aid anyone:

I tell you what this is starting to get old.

Look the majority of my posts isn't about liveblogging at all. Why are you fixated on the 1 percent of what what I post and talk about? Whatever kind of crazy idea you have in your head about me get it out.

Hell no. Nembutal is king. Nembutal is used by swiss euthanasia group dignatis.

Of course nembutal is king. I have N in my refrigerator right now.

 

[ZomGuy]

Well I can tell you that hanging can potentially be an instant death..There is something called "reflex vagus inhibition". It's a pretty rare cause of death in hanging cases. You have to position the noose correctly, so that the ligature applies pressure to the point where the carotid artery branches. It's important that the pressure is applied suddenly..This stimulates the "vagus nerve", which either slows down your heart frequency or if done right, causes your heart to stop beating. This is an almost instantaneous death but in 50% of cases there are symptoms before unconsciousness occurs.

 

[Arak]

We have only this to consider when it comes to grams. Plus the fact that the KNMG/KNMP guideline from 2012 states that the method of drinking a lethal dose (as opp. to euthanasia) is not preferred due to unpredictability, ie the possible absence or late occurrence of coma. Since 2012-13 they use 15 grams, before that it was 9.


View attachment 8720

View attachment 8725





I get that!

@ From that recent article I posted above (in post 131) - ;

........We think that it is much more important for the patient at what moment he or she gets into a coma and is definitely no longer involved in life. If we take the entry of the coma as a measure, ........

might say a thing

I'll use this post as s starting point ... obviously the charts show most people dropping off early. Note that this is about elderly, dying people.

The duration of action of pentobarbital is supposed to be 1-2 hours.
Some people enter the 'prolongued comatose phase' after that.

I'm aware some people would suggest fentanyl, let's say it requires a leap of faith and especially in my case there is the potential for unexpected drug interactions. Yes, I know the theory.

Dilantin has been suggested (cardiovasculatory collapse), but that's the PPEH and I'm not aware of other sources, except that for veterinarians injections of both pentobarbital and Dilantin are preferred over the oral method. Since it's an anticonvulsant it could hypothetically interact with the clonezepam I'm also taking.

Is anyone aware of any other drugs that or method that would make one die within the 1-2 hour time frame ?

 

[suffocation]

brother this way for me is better than dying without more and without pain, only if you are to consume drugs, you can give a trip of immense and infinite LCD, that is to say until death, but the LCD will make you feel good until then , hallucinations are already in that amount of dose, if you're interested we keep talking, I'm looking for the same but the people who sell me do not bring acid drippers or large sheets of cardboard to do it.
You could consume ampules of adrenaline (injectable) and go for a run, your heart would stop at the act

 

[intr0naut]

The duration of action of pentobarbital is supposed to be 1-2 hours.
Some people enter the 'prolongued comatose phase' after that.

No Arak, people enter the comatose phase minutes after ingesting the N. For some people, very very very few, this phase is prolonged for several hours because, for some reasons which i believe have to do with liver enzymes or other factors related to the GI tract (for example using a laxative to sweeten the taste of N, yes, it happened), they fail to build up toxic levels of N in the brain in due time.
Nothing to do with cross-tolerance, i have a feeling it would be the next question.

 

[Arak]

@intr0naut ,

I don't see the need for that reaction. I could also use the word 'extended comatose phase'. Whatever the proper phrase is.
What you get when you don't die within that short timeframe.

 

[Idorus]

Some might have already translated the attachment I shared on this thread but for the ones who didn't, these are the last words (sept. '18) spoken about barbiturate intake (mostly N) in our doc magazine (this one is not public available yet);

How quickly does death occur after assistance with suicide?

We have two exploratory studies that answer the question of how quickly death occurs when the patient has taken the euthanatic himself. The first study is a questionnaire study into experiences of doctors with the methods of "injecting" and "drinking", the other study is our own study under 7 doctor's practices (not previously published).

Questionnaire investigation.

For the first study, doctors received a questionnaire from the pharmacist in the period 2013-2015; 20% of these doctors returned the form. They reported 165 cases of patients who had chosen to take the euthanatic themselves. None of these patients had medical complications; 3 of them were in a coma before the 100 ml euthanasia drink was emptied. In 135 patients (82%), death occurred within 30 minutes. Few findings were presented in this report about the condition that led to the death wish and the course of suicide assistance. It was not possible to determine why death occurred in more than 30 minutes in 18% of patients.

Own exploratory research.

We have collected data from 3 general practitioners and 4 specialists; we have no personal ties or special relationships with these 7 doctors. The 3 general practitioners offer assistance with suicide in the case of a euthanasia request - see info Instruction for patients who receive assistance with suicide - and only inject the euthanatic when there are contraindications for assistance with suicide; the 4 specialists leave the choice of the euthanasia method to the patient. Given the particularly positive attitude of general practitioners with regard to assisted suicide, this dataset is not representative of the medical community as a whole.

The dataset contains 61 anonymous cases of suicide assistance over the period 2002-2018, including 30 cases from 1 practice that always used secobarbital (up to 2012 9 g per patient, in 18 patients; since then 15 g per patient). Further patient characteristics, such as age, body weight, the specific nature of the suffering involved and the doctor's preparation for euthanasia, were not systematically recorded. The medical complications nausea and vomiting had not occurred. Of the 61 patients, 60 were in a coma within 15 minutes; 1 patient had a heavy snoring, 2 had to gag a few times without vomiting. These 60 patients died within 30 minutes. The patient who had not died within 30 minutes was still alive after 45 minutes and was subsequently given intravenous euthanatics

If we add the findings of the first study to our study, we come to a number of 195 patients (= 135 + 60) who had died within 30 minutes, to a total of 226 patients (= 165 + 61) who received help received by suicide. In other words: in 86% or 6 out of 7 patients, death occurred after assistance with suicide within 30 minutes. In our opinion, this means that the predictability of a death without complications or pain is high when the euthanatic is given, when assisted with suicide, in a dosage (15 g) in accordance with the KNMG / KNMP guideline from 2012.