Discussion Why it's best not to say "I hope you find peace"

[Unspoken7612]

When someone here expresses that they plan on imminent suicide, one of the most common responses is "I hope you find peace" or similar.

There are a number of reasons why I think that, although this is usually well-intentioned, it is a harmful response.

1) It softly pushes someone away.

Look, we don't want to be a cult, but one of the things that suicidal people are most often lacking is connection. Saying "I hope you find peace" doesn't provide that. Instead, try saying things like, "I hear what you're saying", "sounds like you're in a lot of pain", "I went through something similar so I know what you're going through", "my friend had something similar happen to them", "there are support networks for that", "we're here for you." Make people feel connection to others. Try to convey compassion and understanding without encouraging suicide.

2) It encourages suicide.

"I hope you find peace" implies that suicide is a means to achieve peace, and peace is generally considered a good thing. This site takes a radical pro-choice position, but, as I understand it, is very keen not to actively encourage suicide. Linking death and peace serves to make suicide more attractive. To be clear, you have the right to view death as peaceful if you like, but encouraging others to view it that way, or reinforcing such a view, is irresponsible. It is up to the individual to decide whether suicide is right for them, and it is very important for everyone to avoid feeding other people's hopelessness or destructiveness.

3) It makes assumptions about the individual's motives and beliefs.

This is unavoidable to an extent, but it can be alienating to people. I don't, personally, think my death will be peaceful: I think I will be obliterated. There will be no peace, because there will be nothing at all. We've had users here who were convinced they were going to Hell. I would personally try and comfort such a person, but saying "I hope you find peace" doesn't meet them where they are. Others want to commit suicide because they are experiencing psychosis and delusionally think they have to kill themselves. People's reasons for committing suicide are varied, and often aren't about "finding peace".

/r/SuicideWatch put together a guide to avoiding and spotting accidental incitement, which specifically picks out "I hope you find peace" as an unhelpful phrase": https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement

It's very hard to know what to say when discussing suicide, so we're all probably going to get it wrong sometimes, but I think this community's default habit of saying "I hope you find peace" is, in my view, suboptimal.

 

[Eole2.0]

You're right in some way.
They throught they suffering enought. it's my case bc I'll attempting in few days.
But yeah "I wish you find peace" it encourage them. But... What we need in case we want to ctb ? We need to think about we aren't alone in our pain. Whatever we feel. It's our last words.

 

[-Toplox-]

Was annoyed before I opened and read the thread but this does make sense to me and I think you're right and make a lot of good points. Thanks

 

[Unspoken7612]

You're right in some way.
They throught they suffering enought. it's my case bc I'll attempting in few days.
But yeah "I wish you find peace" it encourage them. But... What we need in case we want to ctb ? We need to think about we aren't alone in our pain. Whatever we feel. It's our last words.

Yes, I think in most or possibly even all cases, people are trying to be compassionate when they say that. I understand where the sentiment comes from.

We don't want to offer blanket condemnation of people's suicide. We want to meet people where they are, because that's the compassionate thing to do. It's a fine line to walk. "I hope you find peace" is less enthusiastic than "good luck", which is better than "do it, do it, do it".

I hope you find it useful posting on here and gaining a sense of community from like-minded people.

 

[Eole2.0]

Yes, I think in most or possibly even all cases, people are trying to be compassionate when they say that. I understand where the sentiment comes from.

We don't want to offer blanket condemnation of people's suicide. We want to meet people where they are, because that's the compassionate thing to do. It's a fine line to walk. "I hope you find peace" is less enthusiastic than "good luck", which is better than "do it, do it, do it".

I hope you find it useful posting on here and gaining a sense of community from like-minded people.

Your sentiment is justified. I know it's not easy to respond to this type of post. When I will make my post of farewell soon I hope no particular answers because here I am nothing. By saying this I do not devalue myself but it remains that it is a forum dedicated to topics related to suicide. I don't think I have made a mark in 2 months of activity but when it comes time for my last words I could have conversations that do not commit anyone and that can calm my mind

 

[alienfreak]

When someone is in a painful situation, wishing them peace doesnt necessarily mean that you wish they find it through death. Your whole post seems to be based on this incorrect assumption.

 

[kvsvenky100]

It's about encouraging them to find peace in whatever decision they take.

 

[rozeske]

"I hope you find peace" avoids a lot of assumptions like the person doesn't know best for themselves or that they are not in their right mind to be making this choice.

 

[athiestjoe]

I can hear where you might be coming from. FWIW, I end every post I make with I hope you find what you are looking for and find whatever peace & serenity you may be seeking (or something like that). Emphasis on may be seeking as since I do not know them I cannot say what they are seeking and indeed the peace they want absolutely does not need to be death, it can be living. I do not want people in pain and suffering but I do understand why you might feel this way. It also very much leaves the door wide open to them knowing we will be here no matter what (something I also specifically say on GBTs so people are aware it is perfectly fine to change their mind and we will not judge them but instead love them and support them in their struggles).

I'd like to offer my perspective since you put so much time into this and I will do the same and you will see I am giving you lots of credit here so this is not just to disagree but to add to the conversation. Everyone has their own views which I respect given there is complexity.

1) It softly pushes someone away.

"I hope you find peace" can also serve as a gentle acknowledgment of the individual's pain and their right to seek relief without passing judgement. It may not push them away; rather, it could be interpreted as a non-judgmental expression of understanding. Some individuals might appreciate the sentiment as a recognition of their suffering and see it as an invitation to discuss their feelings further without pressure of trying to say "Before you do talk to me about it" as that is somewhat patronizing (you did not say that FYI so I am not saying you did).

I do, however like some of the things you put in your comment on this and I usually incorporate several of those in varying ways before my closing line I use in basically every post I make of "With whatever you decide, I hope you find everything you are looking for and get peace & serenity". However, the one about 'there are support networks for that' feels way too out of line to say here and potentially far more damaging than saying 'I hope you find peace' does, to me anyways if anything that one seems to firmly push them off!. But generally I understand what you point about possible alternatives and I am not brushing your thoughts aside. I am sure you've given people a few potentially good phrases to think about incorporating more even though I disagree the phrase at hand pushes someone away. You are valid for feeling for however you do.

2) It encourages suicide.

I disagree. The phrase may not necessarily imply that suicide is a viable solution, but rather reflect a desire for the person to find solace in whatever they decide (whether it is CTB or not). For some, the notion of peace can be seen as a validation of their struggle, potentially opening up a dialogue about their feelings if they want to discuss it, without strong arming to make they feel they have to elaborate more on it if they don't want to. It's important to recognize that everyone interprets language differently; some may find comfort in the idea of peace, which could lead them to seek help instead of feeling further isolated. No one is telling anyone to do this and I often see people expressing that they are so sad to hear it has come to this point. That is another highly seen comment. If someone has already evaluated their options and making this decision, I do hope they found everything they were looking for. I never want nor like to see GBTs but understand it is going to happen.

I also make clear that "we will always be here" with them no matter what they decide, which is markedly in the lane of "you don't need to do this if you aren't ready or don't want to and we'll love you all the same" without sounding patronizing when someone has made their mind up and wants to say goodbye to us. I am pro-choice but do not want anyone to make the same decision I am making without having thought it through, nor do I wish to cause them more anguish by devaluing their struggle.

That peace can be deciding not to!

I get your point though, I do. I just happen to disagree.

3) It makes assumptions about the individual's motives and beliefs.

While it's important to avoid assumptions, "I hope you find peace" can be viewed as a broad, empathetic expression rather than a specific judgment about someone's beliefs or motives. It might not address their individual situation, but it can still convey care and concern. I would not want to assume that they do not know what is best for themselves and deminimize the fact they are making this decision. While you might be right that I do not know if someone is having a mental break of some point and acting impulsively (which folks who know me here know I am not for impulsive moves and always suggest people to well think it through if that is what they truly want, and often say there is no rush, because there is no rush) but I equally cannot assume they are not capable of having made this tough choice. I would be making assumptions that they aren't fit, which could alienate them further rather than show compassion for the struggle and it coming to this. Again, I hear your point fully and it has given me some food for thought.

For some, the idea of peace can resonate positively, even if it doesn't align with their current beliefs. Acknowledging that everyone has different perspectives can remind us that a simple phrase might still provide comfort, even if it doesn't directly align with every individual's view of peace. Peace can also be, for me anyways, the decision NOT to go through it that's where the 'with whatever you decide' comes in, although I know not everyone says that so I am not taking it personal of course.

I respect you and your views on it and I am glad you expressed them. You might have some merit in your position but you are certainly entitled to it regardless. Everyone here has valid points of view that we all should express and respect (well except the pro-life people but you know what I mean.

Maybe there are better ways of saying something well intentioned and supportive. While I ultimately disagreed overall, I can tell where you are coming from and respect your view on it. I can understand if you do not want to use that phrase and no one is going to try to tell you to use it if you find it troubling. You can continue to use whatever phrasing makes you more comfortable in those moments that aligns with your sensibility on the subject.

Thank you for taking the time to let us know how you feel and even though I disagree, I understand where you are coming from and think you did a great job in articulating your point of view in an effort of community.

And because I always say what I say: I hope you find everything you are looking for and get whatever peace & serenity you may be seeking.

 

[AAE]

"there are support networks for that"

This is to me the most offensive things anyone can say to me. There's no stronger indicator of people pushing you away than them telling you "there's help out there" instead of actually caring.

I was in a grief support group on Facebook, apparently "the best one" (in my country) and it was yearly subscription-based. I was greeted so "warmly" and as I kept posting every now and then about how my grief gets worse and worse and there's nobody who listens, nobody who understands or cares and I have to deal with multiple chronic illnesses and disabilities alone, in the end I got completely pushed away and even bullied, after which I left and gave up.

One of the things those people kept saying before almost nobody replied to my posts anymore were "There is help out there if you reach out"… Apparently one is only welcome in a grief "support" group if you keep having positive progress or if not actually needing support… And no, I wasn't offensive to anyone or hinting SI.

Someone wishing me peace and comfort has a deeper tone to it than telling me there's nonexistent help just to get rid of me.

 

[Unspoken7612]

This is to me the most offensive things anyone can say to me. There's no stronger indicator of people pushing you away than them telling you "there's help out there" instead of actually caring.

I was in a grief support group on Facebook, apparently "the best one" (in my country) and it was yearly subscription-based. I was greeted so "warmly" and as I kept posting every now and then about how my grief gets worse and worse and there's nobody who listens, nobody who understands or cares and I have to deal with multiple chronic illnesses and disabilities alone, in the end I got completely pushed away and even bullied, after which I left and gave up.

One of the things those people kept saying before almost nobody replied to my posts anymore were "There is help out there if you reach out"… Apparently one is only welcome in a grief "support" group if you keep having positive progress or if not actually needing support… And no, I wasn't offensive to anyone or hinting SI.

Someone wishing me peace and comfort has a deeper tone to it than telling me there's nonexistent help just to get rid of me.

Yes, that wasn't a great example. I was necessarily staying fairly generic but the generic points are not useful if you copy them directly. You shouldn't vaguely gesture at "support available". You could say "I find it really useful to be in [group]", or "I got a lot of good information from [source]", or maybe "a friend of mine says good things about [site] if you're looking for more people who have been through that". Don't palm people off on others, you've got to make a connection.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm not sure I entirely agree. I suspect we probably do lean more towards- I hope you find an end to your suffering so- peace. But, I think it can also mean- I hope you make peace with whatever decision you come to. That could include not going ahead with it.

I truly hope for people who do decide against it at the last minute- that they are not still in agonising torment. I hope at that point, they feel more of a calm certainty that actually, they're not ready to die yet. I don't know how realistic that is but, that's my hope. An end to their extreme suffering one way or the other. The other being life but hopefully with more support, maybe more energy and purpose after such a massive adrenaline rush (I imagine.)

Personally, I would likely avoid making a 'live' goodbye thread because I would hate anyone questioning my decision. I'd likely be frantic with fear and SI anyway, so I wouldn't want to feel like I needed to defend my decision. Even if people meant well by saying there were other options available- support networks etc. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be dealing with that at that point. That's personal preference though.

Initially, I thought how nice it would be to not die alone but then, I've witnessed goodbye threads where people do come on to talk them out of it and- it's stressful to be honest. I know you're not saying we should be talking them out of it but I suppose- how I see it is- by then- they've made their decision very likely. If we aren't wishing them well with that decision- then- we are questioning it- surely?

It's very difficult though- I agree. I do kind of tense up seeing goodbye threads. I hope they are making the right choice. I hope they aren't going to just make things worse for themselves. I just feel like it's such a tense time to be 'talking' though. In a way- ideally- all of that should have come before. Why do you feel like this? Is there any possible way you can recover? Do you have any will left to recover? Obviously, it's a massive decision- so, maybe it does need a pause for thought. I don't know. I'm just trying to imagine being on the receiving end of that.

I actually think that's why people sometimes give a brief synopsis of their life on goodbye threads. To show why they've come to the decision they have. I think- if I were to do one, I'd state explicitly that I didn't want to be questioned on my decision or given advice at that stage. But yeah- seems safer not to do one live. And it occurred to me also- what more can we say to one another at that point? Other than- I hope you get what you want- whatever that ends up being. I wish you well. I'm extremely guilty of the 'I hope you find peace' though because, I just don't know what else to say at that point.

 

[bookie]

I don't agree with your opinion

 

[AuroraB]

When it's my time, "I hope you find lights out/nothingness/emptiness" will work for me.
To me, peace implies some sort of afterlife awareness and a feeling of peaceful relief.
Maybe in the last breath, there is. But I certainly don't want 100,000 years of experiencing peace as "me" because that means awareness/consciousness survives after death. I hope not.
But if there's nothingness/emptiness, there's also no "me" anymore to experience the peace.
So I'm good with "I hope there is nothingness."
Good points about peace.

I won't be posting a live goodbye. I want all my devices to be factory reset when the bus comes.

 

[ForgottenAgain]

I understand the intention but, to be honest, all the suggestions you proposed sound much worse to me. Saying "I hear what you're saying" means nothing, it's like saying "I can see the sky is blue". It has the same platitude meaningless as saying "I hear you, I see you, you are loved". English is my second language so I may understand this in a different way but, to me, it always sounded like empty bs. The one about help out there or support is enraging, personally. When a person makes a goodbye thread, it's usually because they exhausted their options. If I made a GBT and received the messages you mentioned, I'd most probably reply very angrily.

Another point is that "I wish you find peace" is not encouraging suicide. Peace can be found in many ways. I usually write "I wish you find peace in whichever path you choose" and I've seen many members writing variations of this as well.

 

[divinemistress36]

I havent experienced peace much so it would personally give me comfort for people to tell me that

 

[Emeralds]

This is to me the most offensive things anyone can say to me. There's no stronger indicator of people pushing you away than them telling you "there's help out there" instead of actually caring.

I was in a grief support group on Facebook, apparently "the best one" (in my country) and it was yearly subscription-based. I was greeted so "warmly" and as I kept posting every now and then about how my grief gets worse and worse and there's nobody who listens, nobody who understands or cares and I have to deal with multiple chronic illnesses and disabilities alone, in the end I got completely pushed away and even bullied, after which I left and gave up.

One of the things those people kept saying before almost nobody replied to my posts anymore were "There is help out there if you reach out"… Apparently one is only welcome in a grief "support" group if you keep having positive progress or if not actually needing support… And no, I wasn't offensive to anyone or hinting SI.

Someone wishing me peace and comfort has a deeper tone to it than telling me there's nonexistent help just to get rid of me..

I don't think that if someone suggests that you join a support group it means that they don't care about you or are palming you off on others. It could just be that they can't relate to your problem or don't know how to help you. Support groups can be helpful. It can be helpful to talk to people who have experienced the same problems you have. They understand better where you are coming from and may be better able to offer you advice than someone who hasn't experienced the same problem and can't relate.

Of course you have to find the right one. Some groups are more helpful than others. I wouldn't be discouraged if you find the people in one group weren't very helpful. It doesn't mean that another support group wouldn't be any better.

 

[TAW122]

I see your points, but I do disagree with the 2nd point especially about the encouragement of CTB'ing. I do interpret "finding peace" as a neutral way for others to be calm and no longer burdened with whatever decision they end up making rather than any pressure into other unwanted decisions. I suppose the 1st point could be true, but depending on the person and situation, they may/not necessarily want empathy and some of the alternative statements could sound patronizing or even potentially remind them of the things their therapist, mental health professional, or counselor said to them and make them feel worse.

 

[theolivanderroach]

I'm not good at comforting people. And I don't mean to argue, but these are my thoughts: I thought saying "I hope you find peace" was open ended. Whether they find peace in ctb, because that is what they are after. Or find peace in deciding not to ctb and continue on. That's just how I saw it but I get your points. And I guess it does assume their motives and beliefs now that I'm thinking about it. But I personally, and hope most people here, never meant it in a way that was pushing.

 

[-Link-]

I hear you with this, although I would frame the risk as being more along the lines of an affirmation rather than an outright "encouragement."

All the same, I would rather somebody say this than say nothing at all.

Goodbye threads can be difficult and emotional to engage with, and in doing this, there isn't much that can actually be said. Since we don't have the opportunity to be in their physical presence and support them in silence, all we have is our words to let them know we're there with them, that they are not alone in their final hours or final moments.

While I definitely understand where you are coming from on this, I think the benefits of ensuring they are not alone outweigh any risks or potential inferences associated with "I hope you find peace."

With so few words of comfort available to us and being that words are all we have, I would leave people to wish peace as they would like.

 

[Emeralds]

I don't like the phrase I hope you find peace - at least not the way it's used on here. I suppose that it's open to interpretation. That's the problem. People tell others I wish you peace or I hope to join you soon, or You are so brave. When someone says they are going to ctb and someone says this, it can be seen as agreeing with them that suicide is the right choice and they should go through with it. Even worse is that most of the time no one asks them what their reason is or tells them that they don't have to do it.

Everyone on here isn't sure of their decision. Many have said they are unsure what to do. Some have backed out at the last minute because they weren't so certain when they were about to do it. It would be better not to tell someone these phrases especially if that's all you are going to say. It could be seen as people not caring about them since its the same platitude that they tell everyone. It's really not any different than people irl telling you a positive platitude. I would rather someone give me a genuine reply than have someone give me the same platitude they tell everyone. I'm sure that most people mean well, but it could also be interpreted as someone brushing you off and telling you that they don't really care what you do one way or the other.

 

[lnlybnny]

reminded me of that meme ''that friend who's too woke'' lol

 

[nattys5thtoenail]

reminded me of that meme ''that friend who's too woke'' lol

Right what type of site do you think this is, most of us come here to escape pro-life sentiment, for most of us death is the ultimate peace. We don't know what they've been through, we can't just say "no don't kys" because they've most likely exhausted every other option and have just simply decided that life isn't worth living. Literally EVERYONE is going to tell you they're "here for you" until they realize they've bit off more than they can chew and you actually have complex mental health issues and each breath you take the worse you feel. We can only wish them well for whatever they choose to do.

 

[-Link-]

In any given goodbye thread, there is a fellow human being and member of this community who is alive when the thread begins and dead by the time it ends. I hope anybody who ever engages a goodbye thread has really thought about this -- the potential impacts of what we say to somebody who's in the final hours or final moments of their life.

Personally, this was the test I used for this: When I see these words expressed in a goodbye thread, do I believe the member would have been better to have not said anything at all? "I hope you find peace" passes that test. It doesn't pass it with flying colours, but it does pass it. I would rather they say this than say nothing at all.

Is this "suboptimal?" I think that's a fair assessment. But then, the entire existence of this forum is "suboptimal." As in, it shouldn't even be necessary for us to be in this position in the first place. We are all here due to the failure of our governments in opening up assisted dying services to the non-terminally ill (including the mentally ill) as well as their failure in providing accessible treatments people can seek out before even thinking about dying.

Most of us have been failed many times over in our lives before we ever make it onto this forum.

The members here cannot be expected to make up for all these failures.

We are all doing the best we can in suboptimal conditions, and our best is all we can ask of ourselves and each other.

Thank you for taking the time to let us know how you feel and even though I disagree, I understand where you are coming from and think you did a great job in articulating your point of view in an effort of community.

Echoing this, because @Unspoken7612 I feel like by posting this thread you were strolling straight into a lion's den in terms of the potential blowback you were going to be facing. Even if it's a point of contention, I think it's to the betterment of this community to put focus on a topic like this.

We can all only do our best, but we can also look for ways to do better and be better, when and where we can. And it's discussions like this that facilitate that process, so thank you for that.

 

[nihilistic_dragon]

I once made a post on that subreddit asking people what words they find most irritating to hear when they're suicidal. I got over a hundred replies and the conversation was going so well. Until the mods deleted it. And now they've compiled a list of their pro-life bullshit instead. Hilarious. Fuck that subreddit and any lists that they decide to compile. They should listen to what actual people say they actually want to hear, and not impose their toxic positivity shit on everyone.

 

[Marco77]

I completely disagree with you. The people who are here have never found peace in existence.

 

[Roadrunner]

I say it because that's how I feel. I want to CTB to finally be at peace from everything that tortures my mind.

 

[yellowjester]

Fine. I'll say "I hope you find cheese" from now on.

 

[nihilistic_dragon]

Fine. I'll say "I hope you find cheese" from now on.

Username checks out

 

[binturong]

I don't like the phrase I hope you find peace - at least not the way it's used on here. I suppose that it's open to interpretation. That's the problem. People tell others I wish you peace or I hope to join you soon, or You are so brave. When someone says they are going to ctb and someone says this, it can be seen as agreeing with them that suicide is the right choice and they should go through with it. Even worse is that most of the time no one asks them what their reason is or tells them that they don't have to do it.

Everyone on here isn't sure of their decision. Many have said they are unsure what to do. Some have backed out at the last minute because they weren't so certain when they were about to do it. It would be better not to tell someone these phrases especially if that's all you are going to say. It could be seen as people not caring about them since its the same platitude that they tell everyone. It's really not any different than people irl telling you a positive platitude. I would rather someone give me a genuine reply than have someone give me the same platitude they tell everyone. I'm sure that most people mean well, but it could also be interpreted as someone brushing you off and telling you that they don't really care what you do one way or the other.

It may be a platitude, but for me personally it is a very solace and comforting platitude so I would be happy to read these words.