Why do some people never get better?

[starlessnight]

everyone says that I'll make it out of this, but how do they know for sure? What makes us different to people who eventually CTB. How do they know that's not how we'll end up eventually too?

 

[bed]

they don't know but it's just something people say to hopefully give you and them some solace. also a lot of people statistically do get better and can deal with their mental health issues when given proper treatment and/or therapy. people often lump everyone into this category tho and it can be frustrating.

 

[LittleCupcake]

They dont, its part of the whole prevention via manipulation tatic. If you told them that you was going to ctb that day they'll probley say "you got so much to live for" or "That would hurt your family/loved ones" or they would try to get you sectioned, its all just bullshit to keep you alive.

 

[Blank_Slate]

They dont, its part of the whole prevention via manipulation tatic. If you told them that you was going to ctb that day they'll probley say "you got so much to live for" or "That would hurt your family/loved ones" or they would try to get you sectioned, its all just bullshit to keep you alive.

In fairness I think it's difficult for people to articulate under pressure what to say to someone who's in the state of mind to CTB. To the extent that persuasion is a form of manipulation perhaps you're right, but then by the same token you would have to concede that those arguing against prevention are also utilizing manipulation.

If a person has never/rarely experienced ideation they often don't even know how to engage - what they end up saying is these kinds of cliches (though there often is some truth to a cliche).

I think you have to find a balance between the reality that there are circumstances of the human condition that can practically subject an person to imminent intense unending suffering or death that can't be mitigated - but likewise there are so many people who's suffering is subject to conditions that can be repaired or relieved.

There are many many people who CTB due to having such repairable conditions go undetected or neglected. To the unseen and uncared for hope is real - it doesn't guarantee recovery, but it makes it a very real possibility, and recovery is great, and it offers a very special kind of freedom that death unfortunately doesn't.

 

[LittleCupcake]

In fairness I think it's difficult for people to articulate under pressure what to say to someone who's in the state of mind to CTB. To the extent that persuasion is a form of manipulation perhaps you're right, but then by the same token you would have to concede that those arguing against prevention are also utilizing manipulation.

If a person has never/rarely experienced ideation they often don't even know how to engage - what they end up saying is these kinds of cliches (though there often is some truth to a cliche).

I think you have to find a balance between the reality that there are circumstances of the human condition that can practically subject an person to imminent intense unending suffering or death that can't be mitigated - but likewise there are so many people who's suffering is subject to conditions that can be repaired or relieved.

There are many many people who CTB due to having such repairable conditions go undetected or neglected. To the unseen and uncared for hope is real - it doesn't guarantee recovery, but it makes it a very real possibility, and recovery is great, and it offers a very special kind of freedom that death unfortunately doesn't.

Its up to the person, if thats the only way they can cope then just let them do it. Someone could say my situation is repairable coz they dont understand it from my pov. If someone wants to really help then just talk to them without judging, theres really no reason to use any type of persuasion or manipulative behaviours. At the end of the day its their choice.

 

[Blank_Slate]

Its up to the person, if thats the only way they can cope then just let them do it. Someone could say my situation is repairable coz they dont understand it from my pov. If someone wants to really help then just talk to them without judging, theres really no reason to use any type of persuasion or manipulative behaviours. At the end of the day its their choice.

I respect your perspective and I hope I can clarify. Some of this is semantics (the way we use the words rather than what the words mean).
If you are interacting with a person you are communicating with them by virtue of how you move, what you say, and also what you don't say.
If a person is reaching out to another human being and sharing their experience, listen to them. It also stands to reason that a person is sharing those thoughts and experiences because they want some kind of communication back - verbal, physical, something.

No matter what you do, you are persuading and therefore manipulating that person. If you say nothing, or if you simply congratulate them, simply by virtue of that you are no more respecting that person's right to choose than you are if share your own reflections and views.

The important factor is to act with empathy and compassion, and genuinely listen. I support a person's right to both life and death - but out of love for my fellow human being I want them to be able to make an informed decision - not just by virtue of reflecting their own point of view back to them as though I were a wall, but by providing real world science, medicine, therapy, as options - challenging their perception that the world as they see it is reality - it isn't for any of us. A person's subjective experience of the world will always benefit from compassionate exchange with other human beings.

 

[LittleCupcake]

I respect your perspective and I hope I can clarify. Some of this is semantics (the way we use the words rather than what the words mean).
If you are interacting with a person you are communicating with them by virtue of how you move, what you say, and also what you don't say.
If a person is reaching out to another human being and sharing their experience, listen to them. It also stands to reason that a person is sharing those thoughts and experiences because they want some kind of communication back - verbal, physical, something.

No matter what you do, you are persuading and therefore manipulating that person. If you say nothing, or if you simply congratulate them, simply by virtue of that you are no more respecting that person's right to choose than you are if share your own reflections and views.

The important factor is to act with empathy and compassion, and genuinely listen. I support a person's right to both life and death - but out of love for my fellow human being I want them to be able to make an informed decision - not just by virtue of reflecting their own point of view back to them as though I were a wall, but by providing real world science, medicine, therapy, as options - challenging their perception that the world as they see it is reality - it isn't for any of us. A person's subjective experience of the world will always benefit from compassionate exchange with other human beings.

I wouldnt say its just semantics since persuading doesnt mean the same as having a normal conversation. Persuade means trying to change someones opinion, view or ones mind on something.
You can talk to someone without persuading, thats just normal conversation, when someone turns it into a debate then its persuasion.

Apart from that yeah you seem to have the idea

 

[p4nic]

I believe it has to do with their perpective, like, the way they see life in general and how they have a more positive mindset about living.
I don't think they mean to be neglecting your reality, but maybe they are too "blind" to see your reality and to understand what you are going through, so it's easy for them to say "It'll get better soon" without knowing if it actually will.