You've posted plenty of evidence of your own bullying. That's good enough for me to form an opinion.
Jean4 said:
Sure. Start a thread that allows for an intellectual conversation.
- Status
You've posted plenty of evidence of your own bullying. That's good enough for me to form an opinion.
Sure. Start a thread that allows for an intellectual conversation.
Jean4
Remember. I am ALWAYS right.... until I’m not
- Apr 28, 2019
- 7,557
Can you believe they are actually asking that and we are supposed to care if we are believed?
More Cyber Bullying on a suicide forum. This is the type of behavior suicidal people hear all the time.
Being told they aren't believed. Tell many people are these pro lifers are trying to kill?
Tell me. Is everyone unable to find evidence themselves? They expect everyone to do things for them... and also tell me. Who is psychotic enough to think a forum is a court of law?
The only reason one would want someone to post screenshots is to have the person put themselves.
This is getting tiresome.
Last edited:
Duh. I'm the one who warned everybody about it several times in the thread that started this whole Facebook mess. You all ignored my warnings. Now you're whining about the consequences.
Re-read this thread: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/has-anyone-seen-this.32936/
Feb 23, 2020
- Add bookmark
- #131
My first post there:
"Maybe I'm overthinking this, but a word of caution: Don't join that FB group if you're using your real name! You'd be giving up your anonimity, and a connection could be made to your account and posts here. Next thing you know, the cops are at your door for a "welfare check".
Another concern is predators/stalkers. All they have to do is see who recently joined that FB group and then match it up with members who posted in this thread saying that they joined. Then they'll know who/where you are in real life.
Again, I might just be paranoid, but thought I'd mention it."
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/has-anyone-seen-this.32936/post-608312
My second post there:
"But honestly, I'm less worried about the people who started the Facebook group than I am about anyone reading this forum (members AND guests). You may be strong enough to handle whatever comes your way (if anything), but others might be more vulnerable and at greater risk.
To play devil's advocate here: Someone like @@Squiddy would be a prime target for this. it's impossible to be a member here for a while and NOT care about another member's safety.
I've also witnessed something like this play out on another forum. It wasn't suicide-related, but a forum catering to a specific profession. Someone was asking for donations to a GoFundMe account. One of the members (without giving it any thought) announced that she had just donated $20 to the account. Some a-hole with a vendetta went on the GoFundMe page and checked the name of the most recent donor. Unfortunately the member had used her real name, and the person was able to locate her Facebook and LinkedIn profile and identify her. Long story short, the member ultimately lost her career because of how her personal information was used. The lesson here: sometimes tiny lapses of judgments can have devastating consequences. So again, just be careful."
The fact is that I did everything I could to protect you guys . But Jean4 encouraged everyone to go ahead and expose themselves anyway. And I'm the bad guy here? Really?
You all went out of your way to torment a grieving family both here and on Facebook. And now you're playing the "emotionally fragile victim" card?
Last edited:
Jean4
Remember. I am ALWAYS right.... until I’m not
- Apr 28, 2019
- 7,557
The thread is right here. Since I wrote it.. the opportunity was here. Nobody chose to take advantage of the opportunity.
Why are you suddenly interested after cyber bullying yourself?
If you would like to have an intellectual conversation with forum members without cyber bullying them, and if people still want to answer after being insulted, feel free to post here.
And as I said. You are entitled to your opinion. Your opinion is inconsequential to me. Because that's all it is. An opinion.
Last edited:
Carina
Angelic
- Dec 22, 2019
- 4,005
My point was you were asking people to post evidence--that would've caused them to link their username to their id. I don't need to re-read anything, since that's what you just asked them to do in this thread within the past 20 minutes.
That was the entire point of the post, not that they were reading it (which was just why it shouldn't be done), but that you ASKED for people to do something that would've done it.
Not meaning to be mean or anything... I just want to make sure people don't go around trying to get people to post things that risk their safety... . especially if they are thinking emotionally.
Last edited:
I feel sorry for her mom to be honest. She must be in a lot of pain and carry terrible guilt for the loss of her daughter to warp it into anger toward emotionally vulnerable people. It saddens me she turned that pain into anger instead of love to helping people like her daughter feel Loved and supported, so they are less likely to follow her path.
Hang in there @Jean4
Hang in there @Jean4
Jean4
Remember. I am ALWAYS right.... until I’m not
- Apr 28, 2019
- 7,557
Yawn. This is getting tiresome. Would you like to have an intellectual discussion pertaining to suicide. A simple yes or no would suffice.
By the way. My saying. Unless you are sleeping with me or paying my bills, please don't tell me what to do.
You are telling a anonymous person on a suicide forum to provide you with evidence because you are incapable of doing it yourself or are trying to out people. Do you know how asinine that sounds lol.
No worries. I will continue to protect our members for these so called pro-lifers who enjoy cyber bullying mentally ill, suicidal individuals and are now trying to out them lol.
You can redact personal info before you post it. It's not rocket science.
Carina
Angelic
- Dec 22, 2019
- 4,005
Are you meaning redacting so they don't know?
Because redacting a screenshot (which would be the only evidence as otherwise would just be typed) would be useless.
If I sent a message to you on facebook, then posted it here, and they saw it, it wouldn't be hard to find which person that sent that message to them, or which they sent that exact message to. The only possible thing that could work is if you displayed a public message, or something from them that they send to everyone--but that wouldn't be the targeting as mentioned.
So redacting wouldn't work.
Maybe I just think as an IT person who's had to do image matching, networking, pattern patching like things before... but it's not too hard. Plus some writing styles are unique even when doing the exact same thing.
Jean4
Remember. I am ALWAYS right.... until I’m not
- Apr 28, 2019
- 7,557
Final ask
1. Do you want to have an intellectual discussion pertaining to suicide
(A) Yes
(B) No
If not... and your primary purpose is to Cyber Bully our members, I would suggest members block if you upset them.
The people that the thread was addressed to (Shawn's parents and pro-lifers) likely aren't members of this forum. So how could they respond and engage in discussion with you?
As for me, I don't need to have an "intellectual discussion" about suicide or mental illness. I've lived it all my life. Contrary to what you want everyone to believe, I'm not a "pro-lifer". But I do have human decency.
Last edited:
Jean4
Remember. I am ALWAYS right.... until I’m not
- Apr 28, 2019
- 7,557
So the answer is no. You aren't interested in the thread except to Cyber Bully our members.
Then may I suggest those who are bothered by you, block you. Have a wonderful day. This conversation, as it is going with you has become nonsensical and I have other things to do.
Continue to have your opinion, and I will continue to have mine... which matters to the people here. And if it doesn't... I really don't care.
Have a wonderful day. I have people lined up who need to talk to me.,
Carina
Angelic
- Dec 22, 2019
- 4,005
Kind of an expansion of why I say cropping things doesn't work:
I mean really, if someone sends you a message that says "YO, WTF man? I wanna go to the game this Saturday and you totally ran into my garage and totaled my car!"
There's not a lot of ways to redact that--they'll know it's you.
It'd also be like if I were to ask say:
"So Parents of Shawn, I heard that you believe the website killed your daughter somehow, I was just wondering what proof you had of this, I've never seen anything like that anywhere, and I have a search ability! Thanks, and sorry about your daughter."
Not a lot of ways I could crop that without it being obvious. Likewise I couldn't crop their responses most likely without it being obvious either. That would be something that an answer would be interesting for though... but still, point remains, it couldn't be cropped!
I mean really, if someone sends you a message that says "YO, WTF man? I wanna go to the game this Saturday and you totally ran into my garage and totaled my car!"
There's not a lot of ways to redact that--they'll know it's you.
It'd also be like if I were to ask say:
"So Parents of Shawn, I heard that you believe the website killed your daughter somehow, I was just wondering what proof you had of this, I've never seen anything like that anywhere, and I have a search ability! Thanks, and sorry about your daughter."
Not a lot of ways I could crop that without it being obvious. Likewise I couldn't crop their responses most likely without it being obvious either. That would be something that an answer would be interesting for though... but still, point remains, it couldn't be cropped!
So the answer is no. You aren't interested in the thread except to Cyber Bully our members.
Then may I suggest those who are bothered by you, block you. Have a wonderful day. This conversation, as it is going with you has become nonsensical and I have other things to do.
Continue to have your opinion, and I will continue to have mine... which matters to the people here. And if it doesn't... I really don't care.
Have a wonderful day. I have people lined up who need to talk to me.,
I'm cyberbullying our members? No, quite the opposite. I'm suggesting that they look at who got them into this mess to begin with.
Carina
Angelic
- Dec 22, 2019
- 4,005
I like how your first question/answer is you aren't cyberbulling.
But your next is recommending people 'look at who got them in the mess'
This forum is supposed to be a safe place... but even you posted a link to the thread that "started it" in your mind in a reply to me. But really it started before that.
Maybe just redirect to more positive things for a bit? just thinking that maybe that could be a better use because I think we know what you're meaning, even though what you've replied before is something else.
enjolras
Dead are useless if not to love the living more
- Feb 13, 2020
- 1,293
Pro-lifers ? Visions of pro-lifers everywhere ? Ghosts are waiting for you on the other side !
Please don't invite them to materialize! You're not doing it the right way, with the help of a Ouija board...
Please don't invite them to materialize! You're not doing it the right way, with the help of a Ouija board...
Last edited:
Ame
あめ
- Nov 1, 2019
- 322
Oh dear, I'm actually surprised that this thread hasn't been locked yet because it has become such a mess. I will probably regret contributing my thoughts to this topic but I have some time today and here it is:
First, I need to make it clear that what I am criticising are the actions that have taken and not those acting. What I write is in no way intended to be an attack on anyone's character and I want to underline that at the end of the day, this is only my opinion (so I encourage you to look at it in isolation, to break it down and only take those aspects from it that are constructive). If, for some reason, you find that something I have written was especially provoking to you or came across as a personal attack, then please PM me so that we can clear the air without derailing the thread.
While I am very much in favour of intellectual debate and open discussions (because speaking on topics freely is the mechanism by which we arrive at solutions to various problems), I doubt that inviting members of this "Pro-Life/Anti SaSui" group will produce anything of worth. I don't know how much can be gained when it seems that emotions are running high on both sides of the argument. @Jean4 herself has expressed her concern for the more vulnerable members of this forum and I would go as far as to say that by being actively suicidal, the majority of people here are vulnerable to some degree. This "side" is just as emotionally volatile as the other and the emotions of both parties are certain to colour perspectives in such a way that would make an "intellectual debate" near impossible.
I never cared for all of the argumentum ad hominem against so-called "pro lifers" and the family of Shawn Shatto in particular. Whether you agree with their actions or not, parents are not meant to bury their children and I cannot imagine the pain that this family must be feeling in the wake of their daughter's absence. I don't believe that censorship is the answer, but I would never go as far as to presume that they somehow "failed their child". If one insists that others ought to hold off on making baseless assumptions, then I should hope that the same courtesy is offered to someone else.
If @Jean4 feels that she is in the right frame of mind to discuss suicide with these people, then I would suggest that she invite them to talk personally through FB messages seeing as she already has their contact information on hand. In that way, the conversation would be private and set on a more level playing field (could you imagine coming over this this forum to debate believing that you are greatly outnumbered? It would be quite intimidating I think.).
Regarding the FB Group "Raid", I have to admit that I was a bit horrified when I saw it all going down. I didn't particularly agree with it and to be frank, its execution was sloppy and ended up doing more harm than anything else. The concerns raised by @HopeDiesLast were valid ones and even though some of you didn't like the delivery, I believe that they brought them with the intention of protecting those involved. I don't intend to blame the victim and no one should be made to feel threatened with the potential of being doxxed, but the fact is that others very well can and it is in one's best interest to take the proper precautions.
Asking for evidence is an acceptable practice in many scenarios and I do not think that anyone should take anything for face value without thinking about matters critically. My understanding was that these messages where delivered privately and are not searchable (through legitimate means anyway) by those on the outside, so asking someone to "look it up" is sort of a moot point unless you intend to allow them to access your account (and I certainly hope that no one does this). However, I also understand that in this situation, providing screenshots of conversations with the names redacted only serves to conceal the identities from those reading them here, the other party (if they are lurking) can easily determine the source of the "leak".
Honestly, I think that it would be best to drop it. To those directly involved, document everything on your end (just in case) and then block those group members. In the worst case scenario, you may want to consider deleting your compromised social media accounts...but for I realise that this isn't always possible (ex: personal business accounts etc).
Please be kind to one another and take good of yourselves.
First, I need to make it clear that what I am criticising are the actions that have taken and not those acting. What I write is in no way intended to be an attack on anyone's character and I want to underline that at the end of the day, this is only my opinion (so I encourage you to look at it in isolation, to break it down and only take those aspects from it that are constructive). If, for some reason, you find that something I have written was especially provoking to you or came across as a personal attack, then please PM me so that we can clear the air without derailing the thread.
While I am very much in favour of intellectual debate and open discussions (because speaking on topics freely is the mechanism by which we arrive at solutions to various problems), I doubt that inviting members of this "Pro-Life/Anti SaSui" group will produce anything of worth. I don't know how much can be gained when it seems that emotions are running high on both sides of the argument. @Jean4 herself has expressed her concern for the more vulnerable members of this forum and I would go as far as to say that by being actively suicidal, the majority of people here are vulnerable to some degree. This "side" is just as emotionally volatile as the other and the emotions of both parties are certain to colour perspectives in such a way that would make an "intellectual debate" near impossible.
I never cared for all of the argumentum ad hominem against so-called "pro lifers" and the family of Shawn Shatto in particular. Whether you agree with their actions or not, parents are not meant to bury their children and I cannot imagine the pain that this family must be feeling in the wake of their daughter's absence. I don't believe that censorship is the answer, but I would never go as far as to presume that they somehow "failed their child". If one insists that others ought to hold off on making baseless assumptions, then I should hope that the same courtesy is offered to someone else.
If @Jean4 feels that she is in the right frame of mind to discuss suicide with these people, then I would suggest that she invite them to talk personally through FB messages seeing as she already has their contact information on hand. In that way, the conversation would be private and set on a more level playing field (could you imagine coming over this this forum to debate believing that you are greatly outnumbered? It would be quite intimidating I think.).
Regarding the FB Group "Raid", I have to admit that I was a bit horrified when I saw it all going down. I didn't particularly agree with it and to be frank, its execution was sloppy and ended up doing more harm than anything else. The concerns raised by @HopeDiesLast were valid ones and even though some of you didn't like the delivery, I believe that they brought them with the intention of protecting those involved. I don't intend to blame the victim and no one should be made to feel threatened with the potential of being doxxed, but the fact is that others very well can and it is in one's best interest to take the proper precautions.
Asking for evidence is an acceptable practice in many scenarios and I do not think that anyone should take anything for face value without thinking about matters critically. My understanding was that these messages where delivered privately and are not searchable (through legitimate means anyway) by those on the outside, so asking someone to "look it up" is sort of a moot point unless you intend to allow them to access your account (and I certainly hope that no one does this). However, I also understand that in this situation, providing screenshots of conversations with the names redacted only serves to conceal the identities from those reading them here, the other party (if they are lurking) can easily determine the source of the "leak".
Honestly, I think that it would be best to drop it. To those directly involved, document everything on your end (just in case) and then block those group members. In the worst case scenario, you may want to consider deleting your compromised social media accounts...but for I realise that this isn't always possible (ex: personal business accounts etc).
Please be kind to one another and take good of yourselves.
Dark days
Seeking peace
- Feb 11, 2020
- 57
I can relate to meds wrecking lives, and the personal hygiene issues. I don't know how to overcome it? People don't talk about it enough, because of embarrassment. If anyone can relate please reach out. Thanks
Jean4
Remember. I am ALWAYS right.... until I’m not
- Apr 28, 2019
- 7,557
Every single day, go into the Kitchen Sink thread (like so many of us do) and write a list of things you need to do. I start off my list every single day with take meds, shower and brush teeth. It works ;)
Dark days
Seeking peace
- Feb 11, 2020
- 57
nitrogen
Schrödinger's cat
- Nov 5, 2019
- 339
There. You get a kick and ego stroke out of all the attention, huh?I have people lined up who need to talk to me.,
So you want us to take whatever you say for face value? Asking you for evidence = victimizing and bullying you?
PS, you don't seem to have a good track record of sticking to the truth and facts I'm afraid. Stan will agree with me on this. Poor Stan.
How SS is moderated and the nature of a forum like this dictate that lies can run rampant but intelligent discussions rarely take off.
You say you want to have intelligent conversations, yet when @GoodPersonEffed and @Ame started sensible intelligent conversations, you didn't participate but instead chose to only interact with those who support you.
I can't quite figure out why you started this thread in the first place. You invite your opponents to have a debate in your "nest" where you're shielded and backed up by your herd - it's not a level playing field. They probably don't even have an SS account to be able to make posts here. So how do you expect them to respond to your provocation? If they don't accept your challenge and engage you here, you automatically win? Or are you flaunting how many people support you and show them you're a tough opponent?
When you were starting to lose the debate with @HopeDiesLast , you tried to regain control of the direction of the conversation by attempting to derail the topic. When HopeDiesLast didn't take your bait, you just decided to disengage. Smart tactic.
Suicide_vampire
In Vino Veritas
- Feb 11, 2020
- 426
What the hell has happened to this thread, this paranoia is destroying this forum, people are turning on each other. I think it's time we all smartened up and took care what we say. It's seems there might be sleepers in here and that worries me greatly. I will be very reserved in my comments from now on.
Carina
Angelic
- Dec 22, 2019
- 4,005
That's what I was just thinking... well had the thought a few times... I mean this is just a support/pro-choice forum... where people are hurting and should be helped, so they aren't stressed whenever possible... and supported when needed... or so I thought.
The whole point was outside people were doing things to make it worse... never thought there'd be any internal conflict.
Suicide_vampire
In Vino Veritas
- Feb 11, 2020
- 426
I don't understand why @HopeDiesLast seems to be spoiling for an argument. Something has happened to change this place the care and support seems to be diminishing.
Jean4
Remember. I am ALWAYS right.... until I’m not
- Apr 28, 2019
- 7,557
I'm always here for you my favorite vampire. Block the rest.
Block button. I don't need you stressed. ;)
Making comments about what Stan's view on this might be and throwing in the "Poor Stan" comment is below-the-belt and inappropriate.
Unnecessary comments like that could do real damage to somebody's state of mind if they were already on the edge.....
(Regarding your other points, I don't know since I haven't followed this thread or the various goings-on closely enough, and the devil is in the detail).
I agree we all need to try to be nicer. We all fail at times as humans but you can tell who tries and who does not and who does it for good and who does it for drama. You and I just disagreed elsewhere as an example, but did it politely and I left the conversation not feeling stressed or worried. Things like this entire post and the facebook and other dragged in drama is doing damage to people and the forum. It's gotten out of hand and is mental and is causing great stress. I feel like I am yelling into a void when I warn of this even having seen it over and over. There are always some aggressive personalities that seem to take over forums and groups. It's worse here because a lot of us are already every on edge and many aren't even stable in general. The last thing we need is to draw more attention and make more challenges and insults to people who already are inclined to mess with us. I cannot understand why taking a breath and being reasonable is totally ignored and flame fanning drama is liked and encouraged. I generally just ignore either with the button or my head if people are dramatic and difficult, but this whole thing just keeps getting worse with more and more "Come at me!" posts and intersite drama and find it quite distressing.
Last edited:
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
So if someone questions or fights, it is paranoia, and, OMG, the entire forum will be destroyed? Some can be vicious with a free pass, but others cannot? Those without a free pass get guilt-tripped into backing off because only they are stressing hurting people?
All of the quoted above is silencing, shaming, and utter hyperbole. Do you know how many fights have been on this forum since it began? Forum still going -- the real paranoia is in assuming that debate and argument are going to make the site spontaneously implode.
What happened to this thread is that it began with outwardly-directed aggression, but aggression nonetheless. This ain't no kumbaya fest. Not everyone agrees with what was expressed in the OP nor how, and this is an adult forum, not a parochial grade-school classroom where the teacher and the dogma rule, and questioning students get dressed down, shamed, put in the corner, knocked on the knuckes with a ruler, and/or suspended [edit: pro-life dogma is the exception that results not in suspension but expulsion].
What happened on this provocative and increasingly incendiary thread is free speech, with no mod interference.
In over 26 hours, the mods have yet to delete any comments (to my knowledge) or shut the thread down, in spite of the Rules and FAQ, which, by the way, are noted in that thread to be flexible, so I'm not throwing blame the mods' way, either. I cite from the rules and other important information in that document:
Do not....make threads to get other people riled up.
These rules are general guidelines and are very flexible. You WILL be warned or banned if you attempt to circumvent any of the rules.
[T]here might be days where the forum is in the public eye....Help us keep the peace during these times by calming other users and not creating panic by making threads about it.
Last edited:
Suicide_vampire
In Vino Veritas
- Feb 11, 2020
- 426
- Status
