Help Was this abuse? Was I abused? I need answers.

[meowmentous]

I am writing this with a lot of emotion, even though I tried to suppress it for the sake of keeping this concise. If any of them leak out and make this hard to read, I apologize. It may get vent-y.
This post is a semi-vent, but it is genuinely me more so asking a genuine question. I have not known the answer for years. I need an outside perspective from people who don't know me.
Warning, as this post may be long and will talk about possible abuse, as mentioned in the title.

Back in the spring of my Freshman year of High School, so for my non-Americans I was fourteen, my brother began to play this horrible 'game'. As kids, me and him had beanbags, and we'd throw them over each other and sit on them to see who could be under it the longest before tapping out. General stupid kid stuff that no one would ever do once they gained a consciousness. I will admit I was an extremely idiotic kid, and looking back at that our parents should of stopped us. But I guess he took inspiration from that after stopping that stupid crap many years ago. My brother started this new game that I did not like in ANY way. Because what would he do? He would pin me to sometimes the floor, but usually my bed, and try to suffocate me. Sometimes it was with a hoodie I owned, or a pillow, but his usual tool of suffocation fun was one of those water-filled ice packs that would freeze if put in a cold place. He'd let it melt back and then press the water wrapped in plastic over my face and nose, making it hard (and sometimes, making it impossible) for me to breathe.

Later on, when my dad would come visit us as my parents were divorced at this point, he found out about what my brother would do on almost a daily basis every time after school. Do you want to know what he did? He would watch my brother attempt in suffocating me. Just watch from the end of my bed, smiling, as I squirmed and screamed as my brother would lean over me with the ice pack. And you know what he said if I tried to resist? He threatened to crack my toes. And not in the pulling outwards way, but I am pretty sure he wanted to bend them inwards. To crunch them so hard until they cracked. Either way, my dad is not a chiropractor? The only person I want cracking my bones is me, because he is so much stronger than me, so either way, that'd hurt me! He'd fucking hurt me if he yanked on or crunched my toes!

So I let my brother to continue on suffocating me with my dad watching, as they both were filled with glee. The only reason they would stop is if I started screaming so loud, they were afraid that our neighbors would call the cops.

This went on for months.
It eventually stopped.
Months later, I told my mom, and she cried. She said she would've called the police if 1. I told her sooner or 2. It happened again. It only ever happened a few times after that, before stopping entirely.

In Sophomore year, so I was fifteen now, I was severely suicidal after finally being free from this torture. It didn't make it better when I told people. When I told one of my old friends that I wanted to kill myself sometimes, she just stopped me from talking. I understand that she was maybe uncomfortable, and I do not blame her for that. She was fourteen herself. But I couldn't even talk about my feelings. Who would I talk about them with, my mom who promised to take me to therapy after the incident but never did?

And then, after talking to someone else I knew (who in hindsight, hated my guts, but I was an oblivious naive high schooler) and told them my brother suffocated, she basically said 'So what? My brother chased me with hammers. What you went through is nothing.' And guess what? I'm sorry that happened to you, okay?! I am! But what I went through was nothing? NOTHING?! I flinch every time my dad touches my shoulders even now, after about seven goddamn years! I cannot let my boyfriend cuddle me for more than five, maybe ten minutes on a good day, without beginning to shiver and break down. I cannot be touched around my torso without feeling like I'm about to be held down. My brother and dad always laugh about it being a game. Yeah, a 'game' I never consented to! I even talked about it to my dad's now-wife a few months ago, and even then, she basically chalked it up to 'boys and brothers will be boys'. I'm going insane.

All of my current friends, and one of my past friends, believe it was abuse. My boyfriend believes it was abuse. Even now, it scares me and makes me cry! It made me so suicidal and I still feel horrible for seeming like a 'broken person' because I can barely be touched by anyone other than my mom without internally either freaking out or repulsing, like in the case of my brother! Even now, sometimes I think about how much better I would be if this just never happened.

So, I need an outside opinion. From people I do not know and are not swayed one way or another. I am just explaining my experiences here from how I see and feel then, and I have been battling with feeling of 'I am just overexaggerating my hurt and this was not abuse' for multiple years. From people telling me that it was just all in good fun, to it being something more serious.

Was this abuse?

I would love to see comments on this. However, if you wish to not comment, I understand. I left a poll here just for that.

 

[daysfeel]

Of course that was abuse. Why do you need to ask us?

A good way to cope with this is accepting what happened, and reminding yourself of ways you've hurt people as well to put it into perspective.

 

[meowmentous]

Of course that was abuse. Why do you need to ask us?

A good way to cope with this is accepting what happened, and reminding yourself of ways you've hurt people as well to put it into perspective.

As I said, many of my family and one other I knew said that I was overreacting, as I said, basically with the 'boys will be boys' sentiment. I have been conflicted for years, because it's hard to defy your family and sometimes go against their beliefs when they tell you they were just playing. I've just been so unsure.

Edit: I will definitely put what you said into perspective, though. I do need to accept what they've done, and some things I've done myself in the past.

 

[musingsofaghost]

Absolutely this was abuse. I'm so sorry you've been exposed to such shitty and dismissive people to think otherwise.

 

[Linda]

I think the word "abuse" is over-used, so I am reluctant to use it myself. But what your father did was certainly abuse. As for your brother, you could call it abuse, or you could take a more lenient view and say that he was young and stupid, and doing the kind of things that young, stupid people sometimes do. I'll let you make the choice on that one.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

My sister (older by 2 years) and I played "suffocation" by taking turns going into the space inside a sofa bed when unfolded and stuffing each other in there with the cushions. It always ended with one of use screaming and pleading to be let out. I can't say that was abuse because we'd both took turns.

We also payed "electric chair" using my skateboard gloves to strap the wrists to the chair and tie extension cords around the body and go through the steps of a mock execution, covering the head and what not. It never progressed beyond going "bizzzzzz!" while shaking the chair or maybe putting something cold from the freezer on skin to startle one another. Being blindfolded and restrained was scary though.

We were unsupervised at my grandmom's house for many hours during the summer and there was a shed with rusty old tools we would have sword fights with. Garden hoes, rakes, a pic axe and a iteral axe. She has a bit of the 'tism and when I'd hit too hard it would send her into a rage and she'd chase me around the house and would have probably killed me in a blind rage if she caught up to me. My dad was laid out on drugs in the attic and could hear us and thought it was funny.

These are sort of good memories for me if you can believe it. It was before life got really bad and childhood still had hope and promise. In retrospect it definitely was criminal neglect to let children play with lethal tools in such a way. For me the abuse was immense hours of unsupervised and unconstructed time leading to such extreme boredom that we played these games and knowing my dad got a sadistic kick out of what he did now.

If you're having visceral reactions to touch, maybe something like TRE (trauma release exercises) can help you. There's a reddit sub and vids.

 

[meowmentous]

Absolutely this was abuse. I'm so sorry you've been exposed to such shitty and dismissive people to think otherwise.

Okay. Thank you. I've been second guessing myself for years because of these people. Many of my friends have told me they're wrong. But it's hard to not trust family is all. Thank you for this, though. It hurts being around dismissive people— they just gaslight you into believing them or second guessing others that say the opposite, which is what happened with me. I just had to finally set the record straight with those outside my social sphere; it's been driving me mad for years.

I think the word "abuse" is over-used, so I am reluctant to use it myself. But what your father did was certainly abuse. As for your brother, you could call it abuse, or you could take a more lenient view and say that he was young and stupid, and doing the kind of things that young, stupid people sometimes do. I'll let you make the choice on that one.

I totally get that, I sometimes believe the same, and I understand reluctantly saying it. I almost didn't make the title of this post revolve around abuse, as I've just been so unsure. But okay, yeah. With my dad, I understand that.

With my brother, I could definitely see it in a lenient view! He is younger than me, but has always been bigger and stronger than me— so even though he was in middle school at the time, he was able to overpower me easily. I would say that maybe, with him being so young, he was acting stupid. The only reason I would say no is… because he's still a horrible person as an almost-adult, sadly. He has never since (sincerely) apologized, and I wanted to see him grow and change! Sadly, he hasn't. A sincere apology wouldn't change what happened to me, but at least it would mean he'd hopefully see what he'd done.

But thank you for this, it means a lot— especially with the doubt in my mind that's been in there for years, even though the answer was so obviously clear. It's sometimes hard to wipe the foggy glasses.

My sister (older by 2 years) and I played "suffocation" by taking turns going into the space inside a sofa bed when unfolded and stuffing each other in there with the cushions. It always ended with one of use screaming and pleading to be let out. I can't say that was abuse because we'd both took turns.

We also payed "electric chair" using my skateboard gloves to strap the wrists to the chair and tie extension cords around the body and go through the steps of a mock execution, covering the head and what not. It never progressed beyond going "bizzzzzz!" while shaking the chair or maybe putting something cold from the freezer on skin to startle one another. Being blindfolded and restrained was scary though.

We were unsupervised at my grandmom's house for many hours during the summer and there was a shed with rusty old tools we would have sword fights with. Garden hoes, rakes, a pic axe and a iteral axe. She has a bit of the 'tism and when I'd hit too hard it would send her into a rage and she'd chase me around the house and would have probably killed me in a blind rage if she caught up to me. My dad was laid out on drugs in the attic and could hear us and thought it was funny.

These are sort of good memories for me if you can believe it. It was before life got really bad and childhood still had hope and promise. In retrospect it definitely was criminal neglect to let children play with lethal tools in such a way. For me the abuse was immense hours of unsupervised and unconstructed time leading to such extreme boredom that we played these games and knowing my dad got a sadistic kick out of what he did now.

If you're having visceral reactions to touch, maybe something like TRE (trauma release exercises) can help you. There's a reddit sub and vids.

The first time, as I mentioned, was as a game! We were stupid children, and I definitely look fondly on that time. As like what you did as a child, we also both took turns during that! I was the same as you back then, when I was maybe around seven to eight.

When I was fourteen, however, was not fond, nor a game to me. We never took turns, it was always me, and I always was crying— unlike the stupid game we played before. So, yeah. But also— I will definitely look into TRE perhaps, though! I have never heard of that before!

 

[bankai]

Yes, it was abuse. They were trying to gaslight you as well afterwards.

 

[meowmentous]

Yes, it was abuse. They were trying to gaslight you as well afterwards.

They sadly did half way of a decent job of gaslighting me. As much as I tried to fight against their notion, what they said always rung in the back of my head.
But I'll try to keep this in mind. It's still hard, but...
I'm glad to know that I'm not crazy for thinking this way about what they did to me. Thank you.

 

[Apathy79]

The bean bag stuff is fine but the suffocation part is clearly abuse. If you reported this and could prove it, they'd both go to jail. It's pretty serious.

 

[meowmentous]

The bean bag stuff is fine but the suffocation part is clearly abuse. If you reported this and could prove it, they'd both go to jail. It's pretty serious.

Yeah! The bean bag stuff is fine. As I said, we were dumb children playing a dumb game. The other stuff though, yeah.
I wish I did, but I was still scared of them back then. What if they continued? What if nothing went through? And even then, I was scared to prosecute my own family. Sadly, I was just a scared child.
Sadly, this happened so long ago that it most definitely cannot be reported now, assuming I'd have around two to five years (give or take, I could be wrong) to report it, it's been more than that. And even then, some of the evidence is probably gone. I was just scared, and in some cases, if it were to happen now? I still would be, sadly. Thank you nonetheless for your comment, though.

 

[Apathy79]

Actually just thinking if you were 14 that makes your brother like 12? So he was a horrible kid but he wouldn't be liable for it. That's shocking stuff from your Dad though. He belongs in jail. Hopefully you don't have to have much to do with him going forward.

 

[meowmentous]

Actually just thinking if you were 14 that makes your brother like 12? So he was a horrible kid but he wouldn't be liable for it. That's shocking stuff from your Dad though. He belongs in jail. Hopefully you don't have to have much to do with him going forward.

Around 11-12! We are three years apart, but he's always been tall and strong sadly. I'm 5'1 and have been since I was a Freshman sadly, lol. I've also never been very strong.
So yes, he wouldn't be liable for it, most likely. Horrible? Yes. Still horrible? Yeah, sadly, he hasn't changed much. But you're probably right, he wouldn't have been.
My dad probably does. Even though I still care for him. I know it's weird, I know, but I guess it's hard for me to not be able to with him being my dad. But you are right with that. I hope to go low contact with my brother and my father in the future. Even if I love them, I cannot forgive any of their actions, and the ones they continue to do!
Thank you again, I hope I don't have to deal with my dad, and my brother, as much in the future as well. Still, thank you for the comments.

 

[suicideprepper]

You have correctly identified it as abuse. Two horrible men you grew up with. I'm sorry you had to live through this situation.

 

[meowmentous]

You have correctly identified it as abuse. Two horrible men you grew up with. I'm sorry you had to live through this situation.

It's okay. It's horrible, but I try to get through it even today, even though it's hard.
I'm glad I am not crazy with what it was, because for the longest time, I thought I might've been. They really tried to gaslight me hard, haha.
Thank you though.

 

[suicideprepper]

It's okay. It's horrible, but I try to get through it even today, even though it's hard.
I'm glad I am not crazy with what it was, because for the longest time, I thought I might've been. They really tried to gaslight me hard, haha.
Thank you though.

I can only hope you find what whatever you need to find to achieve your goal of surviving, as your subtitle says, as gracefully as possible. Strength to you!

 

[QuiMalignanturExter]

Of course that was abuse. Why do you need to ask us?

Because a major form of gaslighting abuse victims, broadly speaking, involves a coordinated "campaign" by abusers -- along with their enablers and apologists -- to brainwash victims into not considering what they endured to be a form of "abuse." Invalidation, minimalizing, and trivializing rhetoric are brought to bear, by the abusers and their supporters, to manipulate victims into denying and questioning their own reality, insisting that either the abuse "didn't happen" or that it "wasn't that bad." In many ways, actually, it's even more insidious than familiar textbook-variety victim blaming because they fill the survivor with self-doubt and undermine them from within, if that makes any sense?

I think the word "abuse" is over-used

I would have to disagree, at least to an extent, just because I think it's far more accurate to say our society and culture are evolving -- in terms of greater perspective and deeper wisdom -- and one result of that is recognizing that far more behaviors can and should be considered abusive

 

[ToANewWorld]

Your Father is at the very least incompetent and should anyone outside of your family had known what was going on it wouldn't suprise me if he faced jail time or legal repercusions for what he enabled. I would call it abuse.

Did you ever express to this retarded person who is genetically your father that this "game" was horrifying and involved violence and force and that you never consented to be played with in this manner? Curious what he said/did.

 

[notreallybored]

ב''ה,
Not sure why I'm replying.
I'm going to preface this with: if any of us exist, a lot of us seem to have been through some fucked up "how did that even happen?" shit.

It sounds like abuse, you've got the trauma of abuse, what do we do about it except try to avoid those prone to idiocy?

And gaslighting sucks.

And tell y'all what, just fucking with anyone's face, generally not cool, that's going for the eyes, don't go for the eyes unless you're krav maga wishing death or worse on someone, y'know? *Maybe* it's just stupid risky bullshit, but I'm gonna go with a decent parent would at least be like "I do not want to fuck with my kid getting a scratched cornea just because they're being idiots with this plastic thing" and cut it out for that reason.

So here's the weird part I'm just going to put out there to contemplate. Supernatural Superserious if you know the song, perception of time is weird and doubly so as a kid.

This sounds fucking awful, and yet the alternate perspective is, if a hovering camera was in the room, was this beyond the pale fucking awful or was it just awful idiocy lasting no more than 3 seconds at a time, so a tired parent stressed out from years of all kids' bullshit went in on the Grimm's Fairy Tales thing because it wasn't *super* risky, just dumb kid shit, yet felt like eternity because, yeah, it certainly was a dumb abusive kid game at minimum that put your brain in panic mode making something dumb and bad seem yet worse than it already was, as in the brain gaslighting itself to add on extra "y'know this is actually fucking dangerous so just absolutely remember not to do that" while the parent is just seeing kids mooshing stuff in their faces for fractions of a moment and trying to give it a chuckle if y'all were really doing that?

I wasn't there, I don't fucking know. And if you were actually getting short of breath for panic and being (at least vaguely inappropriately but, kids, gotta choose the moment to parent because kids are constantly doing dumb kid shit) held down, extra time dilation and panic is going to naturally kick in.

So, not doubting, and just perspective on the whole situation, while the best you can do is have that "what the fuck were you thinking with the toes stuff?" conversation and see if it was that or you get gaslit more.


I've somehow become a caricature about it, the really strict forms of Judaism reserve a lot of kinds of touch for marriage for mystical reasons (and many folks flub that to get together and it creates that 'marriage is kinda a necessary evil because it keeps you from school but creates the next generation' chuckle), but with monkeypox and so on going around, excessive craving for touch really can be overrated. If it's fucking up other relationships, I dunno, is marriage gonna fix it or not, and *that* I don't know for you personally.

Not an answer, just some meditations.

Have some *really* dumb kid shit, as a kid bored and without playmates I used to fling my dumb ass down the stairs because it didn't hurt that much and was probably only like three or four steps, pre-K doing-all-my-own-stunts idiocy. My mother, despite her other problems.. sure yelled at me, but what the fuck was she supposed to do, because aside from 'stop doing that' at least I was where she could keep an eye on things and no one else was around to help? Parenting, there's never a day off.

 

[meowmentous]

Your Father is at the very least incompetent and should anyone outside of your family had known what was going on it wouldn't suprise me if he faced jail time or legal repercusions for what he enabled. I would call it abuse.

Did you ever express to this retarded person who is genetically your father that this "game" was horrifying and involved violence and force and that you never consented to be played with in this manner? Curious what he said/did.

Sorry for the late response. I saw this message yesterday, but I worked a rather long shift, so I was tired.

I have expressed it, and he just brushes it off sadly. I haven't confronted him a bit as it's always the same reply that "they were just playing", and I'm tired of hearing it, so I don't remember exactly what he says when I said it traumatized me. But I just know that he brushes it off, sadly.

ב''ה,
Not sure why I'm replying.
I'm going to preface this with: if any of us exist, a lot of us seem to have been through some fucked up "how did that even happen?" shit.

It sounds like abuse, you've got the trauma of abuse, what do we do about it except try to avoid those prone to idiocy?

And gaslighting sucks.

And tell y'all what, just fucking with anyone's face, generally not cool, that's going for the eyes, don't go for the eyes unless you're krav maga wishing death or worse on someone, y'know? *Maybe* it's just stupid risky bullshit, but I'm gonna go with a decent parent would at least be like "I do not want to fuck with my kid getting a scratched cornea just because they're being idiots with this plastic thing" and cut it out for that reason.

So here's the weird part I'm just going to put out there to contemplate. Supernatural Superserious if you know the song, perception of time is weird and doubly so as a kid.

This sounds fucking awful, and yet the alternate perspective is, if a hovering camera was in the room, was this beyond the pale fucking awful or was it just awful idiocy lasting no more than 3 seconds at a time, so a tired parent stressed out from years of all kids' bullshit went in on the Grimm's Fairy Tales thing because it wasn't *super* risky, just dumb kid shit, yet felt like eternity because, yeah, it certainly was a dumb abusive kid game at minimum that put your brain in panic mode making something dumb and bad seem yet worse than it already was, as in the brain gaslighting itself to add on extra "y'know this is actually fucking dangerous so just absolutely remember not to do that" while the parent is just seeing kids mooshing stuff in their faces for fractions of a moment and trying to give it a chuckle if y'all were really doing that?

I wasn't there, I don't fucking know. And if you were actually getting short of breath for panic and being (at least vaguely inappropriately but, kids, gotta choose the moment to parent because kids are constantly doing dumb kid shit) held down, extra time dilation and panic is going to naturally kick in.

So, not doubting, and just perspective on the whole situation, while the best you can do is have that "what the fuck were you thinking with the toes stuff?" conversation and see if it was that or you get gaslit more.


I've somehow become a caricature about it, the really strict forms of Judaism reserve a lot of kinds of touch for marriage for mystical reasons (and many folks flub that to get together and it creates that 'marriage is kinda a necessary evil because it keeps you from school but creates the next generation' chuckle), but with monkeypox and so on going around, excessive craving for touch really can be overrated. If it's fucking up other relationships, I dunno, is marriage gonna fix it or not, and *that* I don't know for you personally.

Not an answer, just some meditations.

Have some *really* dumb kid shit, as a kid bored and without playmates I used to fling my dumb ass down the stairs because it didn't hurt that much and was probably only like three or four steps, pre-K doing-all-my-own-stunts idiocy. My mother, despite her other problems.. sure yelled at me, but what the fuck was she supposed to do, because aside from 'stop doing that' at least I was where she could keep an eye on things and no one else was around to help? Parenting, there's never a day off.

I have never asked him about the toes, but I will give this for context.

I have, and I'll just say something: my dad, I swear to god he has something for bone cracking. It's weird. He's weird. And I won't get into it, but he always asked for us to crack his bones, and vice versa. I'm glad for the most part he stopped, because frankly, it's weird how frequently he would ask it! I don't care what people are in to as long as it's not hurting anybody without consent. But I am his child, and it was so weird.

Tldr; My dad most definitely has something for bone cracking, and he involved me and my brother in it. The weirdest part was him including us, I believe.

Thank you for your insight though. It felt really long, and I don't really know how long it was. I did have a video of it one time where I secretly recorded it happening, but I deleted it. I wish I didn't. I shouldn't have! But sadly it's missing now. I wish I was able to get it to see how long that specific incident went on for. My boyfriend suggested therapy later down the line and so far I've just been doing baby steps with him when he's able to visit me. We live some hours apart.

At least I'm not the only one who did dumb kid stuff in hindsight, though. But yeah, you're right. There was never a day my mom had off with me and my brother around.