Venting tried standing up for myself and it went very poorly

[author]

I'm a terrible person and I wish I didn't care about anyone

My friend is suicidal. Possibly hypocritical of me, but I don't want her to die. I talked her out of it once through text messages at work. It was a very panic-inducing ordeal but I thought she'd at least be fine for a while after, especially because I've been helping her move. But today at...

sanctioned-suicide.net

For context. The TL;DR is that this friend called me saying she'd kill herself while I was at work, and then hung up when I said I needed 5 minutes to get to the break room and left me on read for the rest of the night as I messaged her several times asking if she was still alive and okay. She had said she called me instead of her husband because she "felt less bad about bothering me than anyone else".

The other night we hung out, and she kept saying the f slur over and over. She's bisexual so I tried to shrug it off as her reclaiming, and I said it once in return but it made me a bit uncomfortable so I stopped. However, she started saying slurs for trans people - and she is not trans. I'm trans. I had to tell her that she was saying slurs, and she claimed she "didn't know" and that our other trans friend was "totally fine with it". She also made a joke about pimping her husband out to me. I was extremely uncomfortable. She was also using me to move from her apartment, and did nothing to help the entire time because she decided reading her old journal out loud to me while I packed her boxes and moved stuff and cleaned up the garbage was funnier even as I asked for her help.

Basically for my safety (and to make sure I wasn't overreacting) I waited a day to tell her how uncomfortable I was with how she's been treating me, and I decided to include the fact that I can't help her with her suicide attempts. She then exploded on me, demonized me, kept putting words in my mouth... It was genuinely awful.

For anyone who cares to read this nonsense I'm gonna put it in the attachments. I combined the screenshots together so that I don't have to send like 10. Hopefully I can also manage to embed the image correctly so that it's not huge but you can click into it. I'm Blue and she's Pink because I literally just spun my color wheel randomly and it landed that way. Green is our mutual friend and Orange is her husband.


I just feel like I'm going insane. Like, I can see how my first message might have been a bit insensitive due to me being frustrated, but I honestly feel like I'm being demonized very strongly for my feelings. Her saying I can tell her when I'm uncomfortable and in the same breath saying how I feel doesn't matter? That I shouldn't tell her? My head hurts trying to wrap it around all of this. I tried so hard to be diplomatic. I tried so hard to just be firm instead of rolling over like a dog because I'm sick of being treated that way.

Despite everything I'm still scared that I'm wrong and I said something heinous and I can't even tell what it is. I WANT people to tell me when I'm doing something wrong but everything she's bringing up doesn't feel like something I actually did. I just wanted to have an adult discussion with her but I feel like I was the one who mainly ended up apologizing, and all of her apologies were "I'm sorry but". I keep going over the conversation like that'll help me understand what I "did wrong". I've been in this situation before with someone else who accused me of things I never did or said, even when there's messages to prove it, so I can't tell if I'm conflating the two situations or if I'm actually justified in feeling like I'm not fully in the wrong here.

I feel bad but I don't really... want to be her friend anymore.

 

[MephiticShadow]

I read the whole message thread and I concur you definitely did NOT call her a chaser. You said the joke sounded like chaser shit. I can kinda see where she's coming from with the your feelings don't matter in that moment of life and death for her but at the same time I don't think telling her later that you were terrified for her safety and wanted to know she was ok is out of line I think that's completely reasonable and anyone who cares about a friend would feel that way. I think she wants to pretend she can respectfully hear your side but I don't think she can she went full aggressive mode much more so than you. Just seems like everything you say she wants to turn around on you

 

[CedarLine]

I can understand that you're frustrated OP, no one deserves to feel the way you've been describing.

I might be wrong, but some of what you've shared worries me. It sounds like you've asked to be respected more than once and aren't really getting that. It sounds painful and unfair.

Do you think it might help to take a bit of space from this person? just to give yourself room to breathe and think clearly.

You mentioned you've been in a similar situation before. And I just wonder if there's a pattern that might be worth gently exploring. Sometimes we gravitate toward what feels familiar, even when it doesn't treat us well.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I am a bit less lenient with this stuff sometimes, but your friend pulling the"I have a black friend" defense in regards to the slurs shows me that they are absolutelynot ready to take accountability for any action they make, and likely won't be even after this. It doesn't matter how damn suicidal you are, that's weird.

It reminds me of a discussion I've had with some racialized people who made great points about how some semi-privileged people (marginalized, but less so than others), WANT to say slurs because it makes them feel good. It feels edgy, taboo. They get a little thrill by feeling like "I'm allowed to do this because I can use (blank) as an excuse."

Like the young Gen Z autists claiming that the R slur is recclaimable by them (even though they still use it as an insult all the time anyway), or the issue with some queer people saying the F slur in between every word in conversation. Your friend sounds like one of those types, and trust me when I say that those types aren't exactly emotionally mature...

I actually kind of want to go through the screenshot you posted and point every instance of deflection, privilege, and gaslighting, if you'd be interested in a full breakdown of why this person is definitely not worth your emotional space?

 

[author]

I read the whole message thread and I concur you definitely did NOT call her a chaser. You said the joke sounded like chaser shit. I can kinda see where she's coming from with the your feelings don't matter in that moment of life and death for her but at the same time I don't think telling her later that you were terrified for her safety and wanted to know she was ok is out of line I think that's completely reasonable and anyone who cares about a friend would feel that way. I think she wants to pretend she can respectfully hear your side but I don't think she can she went full aggressive mode much more so than you. Just seems like everything you say she wants to turn around on you

Okay so it isn't just me on the chaser thing. That makes me feel a bit better. And yeah, I would never make it about me when she's coming to me for help. It's precisely why I waited to bring it up. I figured it'd be best to wait until she was in a somewhat better headspace to let her know that I'm not able to give her that kind of help but that I do care about her.

I just kind of can't get over that she told me to "shut the fuck up" about it. I hadn't even registered it at first because I was so focused on trying to have a genuine conversation with her that I guess my brain glossed over it. Even though I said I cared, and that I wanted to help, and that I was worried about her... Because of that I think she might have been set off no matter how I said any of this, unfortunately.

I can understand that you're frustrated OP, no one deserves to feel the way you've been describing.

I might be wrong, but some of what you've shared worries me. It sounds like you've asked to be respected more than once and aren't really getting that. It sounds painful and unfair.

Do you think it might help to take a bit of space from this person? just to give yourself room to breathe and think clearly.

You mentioned you've been in a similar situation before. And I just wonder if there's a pattern that might be worth gently exploring. Sometimes we gravitate toward what feels familiar, even when it doesn't treat us well.

I have a bad habit of people pleasing and putting myself down, so I've been around people who take advantage of that. In the past I was even more gentle and anxious than I am now so it was easier for people to turn things around and say I was in the wrong for stating my discomfort. I'm trying to get better about that. I think I did better here at least.

I definitely want space from her. I'm honestly not sure I'll even stick around to be her friend if she doesn't give me a genuine apology without me asking for it (since stating my discomfort was the whole reason this happened). I'm very, very tired of being treated like this...

I am a bit less lenient with this stuff sometimes, but your friend pulling the"I have a black friend" defense in regards to the slurs shows me that they are absolutelynot ready to take accountability for any action they make, and likely won't be even after this. It doesn't matter how damn suicidal you are, that's weird.

It reminds me of a discussion I've had with some racialized people who made great points about how some semi-privileged people (marginalized, but less so than others), WANT to say slurs because it makes them feel good. It feels edgy, taboo. They get a little thrill by feeling like "I'm allowed to do this because I can use (blank) as an excuse."

Like the young Gen Z autists claiming that the R slur is recclaimable by them (even though they still use it as an insult all the time anyway), or the issue with some queer people saying the F slur in between every word in conversation. Your friend sounds like one of those types, and trust me when I say that those types aren't exactly emotionally mature...

I actually kind of want to go through the screenshot you posted and point every instance of deflection, privilege, and gaslighting, if you'd be interested in a full breakdown of why this person is definitely not worth your emotional space?

She is definitely the type to say the f slur every sentence. That's what she was doing when we hung out. I've said it once or twice in relation to myself, however, she said it in relation to me - as in calling me that several times. I tried to laugh along with it but I wasn't really liking it...

Honestly if you want to go through it, I'd be glad to read it. Given my history of being gaslit I really appreciate when people are able to go "no you're not crazy, and here's why" lol - I appreciate it either way though.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

@author
Alright alright, longwinded post here we go. Also this is only regarding their first batch of paragraphs before you respond because I genuinely got a migraine from the lethal amount of annoyance they gave me. No idea how you cope. You did nothing wrong here and them trying to pull that apology out of you was honestly upsetting. Hope you're okay.

Spoiler: Quotes & Explanations

---

Firstly, I apologize for accidentally saying a slur. Believe it or not, I didn't know and i don't really appreciate being talked down to the way you did to me in your message.

Deflection. Whether it was on accident holds no weight here. Accountability is impact>intent most times, and them highlighting their intent repeatedly shows that they feel more "accused" than "guilty."

---

I will be the first to admit my short comings about my knowledge of terms and the history of literally anything, but that's why I watch drag race and have people like you in my life to educate me and I'm grateful for how much you've taught me over the past decade about this awesome community.

Arguably the most egregious offense. It is not marginalized people's job to educate people on knowledge that can be gained from a two second Google search or by following queer rights-focused creators online, etc.

They just admitted that one of the reasons they keep marginalized people in their life is to do unpaid emotional labor. They also, for some reason, think Drag Race is a good source to learn about queer history. Considering Ru Paul's past transphobia and use of the T slur himself, maybe that's one of their problems.

---

I apologize again for saying it at all, even though I didn't know, and I promise to never say it again in the future.

They cut off their own apology with an excuse. "I apologize even though I didn't mean to and I won't do it again."

---

Just a side note here though, please don't go around thinking I just walking around saying that word all the time, the first time I ever said it was five days ago with you and I'll never say it again. I apologize for lying that I said I've used it before and that (blank) said it was okay, you can ask them if I've ever said it before.

They would not have felt the need to lie about a marginalized person giving them "slur permission" if they didn't understand the gravity of their mistake.

Also... Boy Who Cried Wolf, much? They lied about this, they'll lie about anything.

And "that was the first time I ever used it" is interesting. Why then? So they mean to imply that they knew the word, didn't known it was a slur, but still held back on saying it for so long?

---

I do want to say though that to mitigate confusion in the future, I think it would be best if neither of us said any slurs around each other. People have told me that you saying slurs around them makes them uncomfortable and I agree with them, but we just let it slide because it seemed important to you. But i truly believe no slurs should be said when we're together full stop.

Projection, yada yada. "Yeah I messed up but... but... YOU DID TOO!!!! "

It's likely that no one ever told them this, by the way. If you pry, chances are they'll admit that this is a lie, too. It seems very convenient. Boy Who Cried Wolf #2, basically.

---

Okay, second. I have no idea what joke you're referring to about you sleeping with (husband) I asked and he says he doesn't recall this joke at all either. Because I don't really have anything to go off from this, this is what I'll say.

Boy Who Cried Wolf #3

---

I don't think you're lying, i definitely think I could've made this joke, but i think and I knew it was a stupid joke and moved on. Do you think you could've been reading way too much into it? I thought almost a decade of friendship meant that you konw that I had no intention of setting you up with I'm aware that you are asexual, i am aware that you are not (husband's) type, I am aware that id rather sell my right arm then share my husband with anyone.

"You are overreacting/being too sensitive!"
"I thought you were my friend!"

Lighting the Gas, so to speak. With a sprinkle of emotional manipulation for extra flavor.

---

Also another side note, please do not resort to name calling the calling me a chaser in your message, it's incredibly insulting and it really makes me not want to apologize.

Full admittance that when they feel offended, they would consider willingly avoiding apologizing for harm caused against marginalized people. The fact that they fully think this is a normal thing to say is funny in a really morbid way.

---

I'm only saying this because these are really important points you're bringing up and I do believe applying some of the things you said can help me grow as a person, but you're not gonna get very far in a conversation with people if you come out the gates with a match and gasoline.

"You are gaslighting!" Gaslights the gaslighter. Can't make this shit up.

---

I'm autistic.

...Christ's sake. I don't even think I need to comment. Autism excuses none of this.

---

Do not ever talk to me about how me sitting in a bathtub with a knife with no plans to see tomorrow is so fucking inconveniant and hard for you.
(I'm not quoting the rest of their BS, you get the jist)

That longwinded rant about how people aren't allowed to be traumatized when their friends are suicidal is something that even the worst members of SaSu would cringe at.

---

I lost all my progress in animal crossing yesterday and I'm a wreck about it, so if I came off harsher than you believe I should have been, that's probably why.

What. This isn't even me pointing out their excuse here, just... what.

If they weren't in the headspace to respectfully answer you, they should have take the time to calm down. Very hypocritical because they even tried to say that if you weren't in the headspace to help them during their suicidal breakdowns, that you should have just not answered. Rules for me, but not for thee.

 

[author]

@author
Alright alright, longwinded post here we go. Also this is only regarding their first batch of paragraphs before you respond because I genuinely got a migraine from the lethal amount of annoyance they gave me. No idea how you cope. You did nothing wrong here and them trying to pull that apology out of you was honestly upsetting. Hope you're okay.

Spoiler: Quotes & Explanations

---

Deflection. Whether it was on accident holds no weight here. Accountability is impact>intent most times, and them highlighting their intent repeatedly shows that they feel more "accused" than "guilty."

---

Arguably the most egregious offense. It is not marginalized people's job to educate people on knowledge that can be gained from a two second Google search or by following queer rights-focused creators online, etc.

They just admitted that one of the reasons they keep marginalized people in their life is to do unpaid emotional labor. They also, for some reason, think Drag Race is a good source to learn about queer history. Considering Ru Paul's past transphobia and use of the T slur himself, maybe that's one of their problems.

---

They cut off their own apology with an excuse. "I apologize even though I didn't mean to and I won't do it again."

---

They would not have felt the need to lie about a marginalized person giving them "slur permission" if they didn't understand the gravity of their mistake.

Also... Boy Who Cried Wolf, much? They lied about this, they'll lie about anything.

And "that was the first time I ever used it" is interesting. Why then? So they mean to imply that they knew the word, didn't known it was a slur, but still held back on saying it for so long?

---

Projection, yada yada. "Yeah I messed up but... but... YOU DID TOO!!!! "

It's likely that no one ever told them this, by the way. If you pry, chances are they'll admit that this is a lie, too. It seems very convenient. Boy Who Cried Wolf #2, basically.

---

Boy Who Cried Wolf #3

---

"You are overreacting/being too sensitive!"
"I thought you were my friend!"

Lighting the Gas, so to speak. With a sprinkle of emotional manipulation for extra flavor.

---

Full admittance that when they feel offended, they would consider willingly avoiding apologizing for harm caused against marginalized people. The fact that they fully think this is a normal thing to say is funny in a really morbid way.

---

"You are gaslighting!" Gaslights the gaslighter. Can't make this shit up.

---

...Christ's sake. I don't even think I need to comment. Autism excuses none of this.

---

That longwinded rant about how people aren't allowed to be traumatized when their friends are suicidal is something that even the worst members of SaSu would cringe at.

---

What. This isn't even me pointing out their excuse here, just... what.

If they weren't in the headspace to respectfully answer you, they should have take the time to calm down. Very hypocritical because they even tried to say that if you weren't in the headspace to help them during their suicidal breakdowns, that you should have just not answered. Rules for me, but not for thee.

Oh god I'm not the only one who got a migraine reading through? lol I'm sorry you were subjected to the same psychic damage as me. I did get a physical headache reading through the messages before I had posted them here. This is cathartic to read though, thank you.

Honestly the autism thing is even funnier because I'm also autistic. I don't really know why she's using that as an excuse to a fellow autistic person. And the animal crossing thing... I really don't know, to be honest. The whole thing is dizzying in general. Honestly I'm not even sure she fully read my messages afterwards or if she just wanted me to apologize for daring to bring up my own feelings.

I am surprisingly okay. In the past I think this would have been a lot worse on my mind, but having been through it before with someone else who was a lot worse with it, this is nothing in comparison. Granted, it was upsetting, and there's the potential I lose more than just her as a friend (our mutual friend may possibly believe her over me) but I think I'll be okay. Thank you.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Oh god I'm not the only one who got a migraine reading through? lol I'm sorry you were subjected to the same psychic damage as me. I did get a physical headache reading through the messages before I had posted them here. This is cathartic to read though, thank you.

Honestly the autism thing is even funnier because I'm also autistic. I don't really know why she's using that as an excuse to a fellow autistic person. And the animal crossing thing... I really don't know, to be honest. The whole thing is dizzying in general. Honestly I'm not even sure she fully read my messages afterwards or if she just wanted me to apologize for daring to bring up my own feelings.

I am surprisingly okay. In the past I think this would have been a lot worse on my mind, but having been through it before with someone else who was a lot worse with it, this is nothing in comparison. Granted, it was upsetting, and there's the potential I lose more than just her as a friend (our mutual friend may possibly believe her over me) but I think I'll be okay. Thank you.

If your mutual friend believes a person who admitted to lying about getting a "T slur pass" then they have their own stuff to unpack imo. Glad you're doing okay, though, those messages are a doozy even less then halfway through.