*Thought Experiment* Voluntary Taxation?

[DarkRange55]

This is simply a thought experiment, and just a question for the general community. What do you think of the concept of voluntary taxation and those who refuse to pay taxes will simply have those services withheld? Such as healthcare, fire department, roads, UBI or Social Security of some sort, public education, ect. I do not know how exactly to go about enforcing all of this, and I'm sure there are many ramifications and complications that might be unintended such as if your neighbors house caught on fire, and he was not paying taxes, but the fire spread to yours.

This is not my personal stance, simply a thought experiment. Please leave your thoughts below.

 

[sserafim]

This is simply a thought experiment, and just a question for the general community. What do you think of the concept of voluntary taxation and those who refuse to pay taxes will simply have those services withheld? Such as healthcare, fire department, roads, UBI or Social Security of some sort, public education, ect. I do not know how exactly to go about enforcing all of this, and I'm sure there are many ramifications and complications that might be unintended such as if your neighbors house caught on fire, and he was not paying taxes, but the fire spread to yours.

This is not my personal stance, simply a thought experiment. Please leave your thoughts below.

This is unrelated but only paying for what you need defeats the whole purpose of insurance haha. Insurance is paying money just in case of one rainy day. You can't buy retroactive insurance either, it doesn't work like that

 

[untothedepths]

I think it could - maybe - work if its a small community that cares for one another, and integrating new people into their society may take more 'red tape' so to speak. People would have to make sure to clamp down on corruption and have transparent town meetings as well so they know how much is being spent where. Then again, you could say those last two things are how society should function anyway. But then we run into the problem of the no-tax people who might become destitute and run out of resources too. Would they becoming roving bandits? Like, there is a lot to think about....

 

[DarkRange55]

This is unrelated but only paying for what you need defeats the whole purpose of insurance haha. Insurance is paying money just in case of one rainy day. You can't buy retroactive insurance either, it doesn't work like that

This is you

 

[Pluto]

Doesn't account for the wealthy class being a critical part of the tax base, yet rarely needing government-funded services. Mind you, billionaire tax evasion is already prevalent, so...

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's a tricky subject. Are all people genuinely capable of working a well paying job to pay taxes? Should all jobs pay the same amount? Then, where is the incentive to excel? Should all people be expected to work a 40+ hour week?

I really struggle with all of this. I live in the UK where there is a national health service- so- free(ish) healthcare for all. (Although, the quality and availability varies widely.) Personally- that seems like the moral thing to do as a society. I don't think people should be just left to suffer and deteriorate and die because they can't afford healthcare. I don't think people should feel terrified to receive healthcare because it will affect their insurance premiums. On the other hand though, there absolutely are people who milk the system.

Really, I don't know what should be done. I'd like to live in a society where everyone contributed what they truly could and didn't try to screw everyone else over!

But, that absolutely goes for the richest in our societies too. If we're talking about tax- there's also tax evasion to consider. The very richest in our societies employ people to wangle them out of paying anything they don't absolutely have to. Off shore accounts, avoiding inheritance tax, shell companies, all sorts. I bet all sorts goes on to the tune of millions, perhaps billions. And these are people who aren't struggling to get by.

I just think human nature means you'll always get people who freeload and exploit. What's worse? Someone refusing to pay council tax or, massive companies like Starbuck's and Amazon wangling their way out of paying their tax?

There's corruption at both ends of the scale. Plus, because a lot of us likely see our own governments/MP's/councils as corrupt, it makes us think- why shouldn't we try and avoid paying out our hard earned cash for these corrupt arseholes to embezzle it or give it to their mates in some underhand deal? eg. the recent UK Michelle Mone PPE scandal.

That's the main issue I think- if you're expecting people who are genuinely ill or at a disadvantage to be able to work a well paying job to do it anyway- the people taking their money need to be purer than the driven snow- surely? Why should you expect people to pay willingly into a system that is so corrupt?!!

So it's basically like communism I think. In theory, it sounds fair. In practice though, it doesn't seem to work out like that. The people with the most money and power and opportunities/status in life don't want to relinquish that. Why would they? Their life would become as shit as everyone elses! So, how would it ever really work- when there isn't a level playing field to begin with? When legal loopholes exist for them to legally act in underhand ways? It's like everything would need to change. And I don't believe it will unless there's a revolution or something.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

How would you withhold the nebulous benefits of things like the military? Even for defense, you can't just not defend the people who don't pay. For imperialistic applications of the military or the MIC, the benefits are very much tied up in complex systems that can't just be untangled cuz your neighbor Steve doesn't pay for it. On that note, veterans are probably turbo fucked.

Every safety net system would entirely collapse because people would only ever think to pay for them when they find themselves needing it, which happens to be precisely when they won't be able to pay for it.

Rich people would just pay for private services to replace services they need and essentially get a huge discount. Fundamentally, anyone who makes more than a certain amount of money would likely automatically opt out since they could get the denied services from private institutions instead for less than what they'd effectively pay in taxes.

Seems like a pretty bad idea overall, at least in isolation. Maybe massive reforms on other matters could make it slightly more tenable. Regulations on maximum allowed income, actual crackdowns on stuff like off shore banking, peaceful breakdowns of national borders, making basic necessities entirely free, etc.

 

[DarkRange55]

How would you withhold the nebulous benefits of things like the military? Even for defense, you can't just not defend the people who don't pay. For imperialistic applications of the military or the MIC, the benefits are very much tied up in complex systems that can't just be untangled cuz your neighbor Steve doesn't pay for it. On that note, veterans are probably turbo fucked.

Every safety net system would entirely collapse because people would only ever think to pay for them when they find themselves needing it, which happens to be precisely when they won't be able to pay for it.

Rich people would just pay for private services to replace services they need and essentially get a huge discount. Fundamentally, anyone who makes more than a certain amount of money would likely automatically opt out since they could get the denied services from private institutions instead for less than what they'd effectively pay in taxes.

Seems like a pretty bad idea overall, at least in isolation. Maybe massive reforms on other matters could make it slightly more tenable. Regulations on maximum allowed income, actual crackdowns on stuff like off shore banking, peaceful breakdowns of national borders, making basic necessities entirely free, etc.

Again, I'm not saying I support this idea, its just a thought experiment but for your last one -
actual crackdowns on stuff like off shore banking
Have you read about CRS (common reporting standard)? Because of CRS .. either trust or offshore companies (like BVI, Cayman island…), all need to reveal the final beneficiaries.

Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SexyIncél]

In a saner world, Tax Day would be a day of celebration, where we discuss all the cool collective purchases we'll make