Discussion There is absolutely no excuse for evil or suffering to even exist in the first place.

[Darkover]

Whether you believe that existence was manifested by the Absolute, a God, multiple Gods or a blind and random cosmic force - there is no rational justification as to why evil and suffering is a reality.

If God is all-powerful (omnipotent), It should be able to prevent or eliminate evil.

If God is all-knowing (omniscient), It should be aware of all evil.

If God is all-good (omnibenevolent), It should desire to eliminate or prevent evil.

However, evil exists in the world and always has, as evidenced by human and animal suffering, natural disasters, cruelty, and moral wrongdoing. Why would an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good God allow evil to persist or occur in the first place?

There is no excuse for this abomination to exist in the first place.

"Suffering and evil can be instruments for personal growth and spiritual development" - That doesn't justify or explain why it exists in the first place. Spiritual growth and development can occur through love and compassion, negativity does not need to be involved in order for someone to evolve.

"The nature of God's reasoning for allowing evil is beyond human comprehension" - Lazy way of dancing around the blatant issue of why misery, agony and pain exists at all.

"There are two opposing forces in the universe: Good and Evil. Good and Evil was created in order to allow us to experience both sides of duality" - Again, there is no reasoning as to why it was willed into existence in the first place. It should've never existed. It shouldn't be a thing. We do not need to experience evil or suffering.

Please stop trying to vindicate the existence of evil by slathering it in toxic positivity or claiming that every form of corruption under the sun is some sort of metaphysical test or exercise in divinity. Murder, rape, poverty, disease, slavery, wars and decay are abhorrent.

Our universe could've existed without evil in the same way that a video game can exist without violence and gore.

 

[save]

everytime ive asked this question openly im always met with the same response


"for good to exist the evil must be dealt with" so according to that argument, evil naturally comes before good and by extension our world will always be inclined to be evil and selfish overall


it would be very, very difficult for me to worship a being that could rationalise that and even more so that they can fearmonger others into believing it aswell

 

[atrophy]

I just wanted to drop my all time favourite quote.

 

[Unspoken7612]

Well, yes, there is no god. The universe doesn't serve a purpose, and neither good nor evil, pleasure nor suffering, serve grander purposes. Indeed, good and evil and pain and pleasure are subjective judgements which can only be determined by thinking beings.

The fact is that our universe has entropy, and that leads to a degree of suffering. We evolved ways of detecting beneficial and harmful things so we could seek the good and avoid the bad, but these led to some perverse incentives and probably contribute a great deal to human evil.

A universe without evil or pain would be very different to our current universe. I agree with Epicurus' analysis of the problem of evil, but the solution is that the universe wasn't created by an omnipotent, omnibenevolent being, it arose through natural processes. Asking for a "rational justification" is a form of naturalistic fallacy, assuming that nature must be rational and just.

 

[Hvergelmir]

there is no rational justification as to why evil and suffering is a reality.

I can try, as a philosophical exercise...

I'd argue that good and evil are purely abstract constructs, to label how things make us feel.
Good is something we find desirable, and that we want to support.
Evil is something worth anger and violent opposition. (It must be something we can plausibly affect. An unexpected accident is not 'evil'.)

My justification for evil existing is thus simply, that it's a useful tool to organize and communicate thoughts and feelings.
It's a classification for things we want to change. I refute the idea that things would be purposefully designed.

Suffering is however a real thing. It's a motivator, compelling you to change - in many ways the opposite of pleasure.
Hunger is one kind of suffering, compelling you to eat.
Pain is another, compelling you to stop hurting yourself and let things heal.
Suffering is a collection of mechanics, compelling organisms to stay away from harm. It's not perfect, but it works relatively well. It's not inherently evil.

 

[CTB Dream]

ya this all nonsns lif cncpt all pain sffr no lmt no resn hpn all ,all awfl unvrs all awfl wrld rndm choas make endle pain sffr

 

[akafuka1999]

You are so right. Let life/world be feelingless like a movie. Events happen but they do not touch me. It is dull and all you can feel is meaningfulness or not.

 

[doomedbynarrative]

Whether you believe that existence was manifested by the Absolute, a God, multiple Gods or a blind and random cosmic force - there is no rational justification as to why evil and suffering is a reality.

If God is all-powerful (omnipotent), It should be able to prevent or eliminate evil.

If God is all-knowing (omniscient), It should be aware of all evil.

If God is all-good (omnibenevolent), It should desire to eliminate or prevent evil.

However, evil exists in the world and always has, as evidenced by human and animal suffering, natural disasters, cruelty, and moral wrongdoing. Why would an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good God allow evil to persist or occur in the first place?

There is no excuse for this abomination to exist in the first place.

"Suffering and evil can be instruments for personal growth and spiritual development" - That doesn't justify or explain why it exists in the first place. Spiritual growth and development can occur through love and compassion, negativity does not need to be involved in order for someone to evolve.

"The nature of God's reasoning for allowing evil is beyond human comprehension" - Lazy way of dancing around the blatant issue of why misery, agony and pain exists at all.

"There are two opposing forces in the universe: Good and Evil. Good and Evil was created in order to allow us to experience both sides of duality" - Again, there is no reasoning as to why it was willed into existence in the first place. It should've never existed. It shouldn't be a thing. We do not need to experience evil or suffering.

Please stop trying to vindicate the existence of evil by slathering it in toxic positivity or claiming that every form of corruption under the sun is some sort of metaphysical test or exercise in divinity. Murder, rape, poverty, disease, slavery, wars and decay are abhorrent.

Our universe could've existed without evil in the same way that a video game can exist without violence and gore.

This. All of this. So long as we can't and don't know the answers and origins of existence, nothing will ever convince me that everything HAD to be this way.

 

[reticulator]

Well, yes, there is no god. The universe doesn't serve a purpose, and neither good nor evil, pleasure nor suffering, serve grander purposes. Indeed, good and evil and pain and pleasure are subjective judgements which can only be determined by thinking beings.

The fact is that our universe has entropy, and that leads to a degree of suffering. We evolved ways of detecting beneficial and harmful things so we could seek the good and avoid the bad, but these led to some perverse incentives and probably contribute a great deal to human evil.

A universe without evil or pain would be very different to our current universe. I agree with Epicurus' analysis of the problem of evil, but the solution is that the universe wasn't created by an omnipotent, omnibenevolent being, it arose through natural processes. Asking for a "rational justification" is a form of naturalistic fallacy, assuming that nature must be rational and just.

I agree with this. We sort of arose by "accident", and no beings besides us that we know of can experience suffering (or pleasure) to the degree that we can. Our experiences are based on our genes, and also our circumstances, and if we have what it takes to survive the environments we are dropped in. With humans it's a little bit more complex, as we have free choice, and sometimes we truly do bring the suffering upon ourselves. In my case it was maybe a combination of poor choices, but also bad mental genes and mental illness that caused me to be a loser and indigent.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Forever Sleep]

I miss @Darkover . I hope they are doing as ok as they can be.

 

[Quantum_Marten0302]

There is no justification because there doesnt need to be any