The psychiatric system is a desaster.

[RainAndSadness]

I just came home from an appointment with 2 doctors in a psych ward because my therapist doesn't know how to help me. So he sent me to this facility in order to get serious help or further resources for my mental health issues. I sat down with 2 doctors in that place for 2 hours, we talked about my problems and my needs. We talked about my past, about my current issues and about my trans experience. And they had no answer. They simply didn't know what to do. They were overwhelmed with the quantity of my issues and they also had no idea how to approach them. They basically made it very clear to me that they couldn't help me. Imagine that. I was sent there because my therapist can't help me anymore and even the psych ward with supposedly experienced doctors, the last instance for people who are in desperation, for people who already gave up and were sent there because they failed their attempt, people who deal with severe mental issues, couldn't help me.

But when I started to talk about being suicidal, I just mentioned it briefly, they suddenly started to listen very closely. They told me, if I feel suicidal and I have thoughts about ending my life, they will have to keep me there and hospitalize me. I changed my story very quickly because having strangers taking away my most basic fundamental rights is a nightmare and I don't want. But that's not even the point. The point is: they literally just told me that they have no idea how to help me but they wanted to keep me alive. Imagine that for one second. This, right there, sums up all problems in the psychiatric system.

The idea that I have to be kept alive because 'it's their duty' while also saying simultaneously that they don't have any solutions to my problems (while also saying that all problems are 'temporarily and therefore suicide is never a solution), is disastrous. Imagine that. That's concerning. Suicide prevention isn't about helping people. It's about keeping people alive. That's the whole point.

We need to seriously reform the psychiatric system. We're focusing on the wrong issues. I don't see people talking about the problems that make people commit suicide. If I see suicide prevention posters, I only see them wanting to keep you alive. I see them talking about the symptoms of suicide, not about the reasons. I don't see them talking about the roots. When I see suicide prevention posters, I don't see them talking about us. I see them talking about themselves, about their idea of life and how everyone else should follow that philosophy that suicide is bad and if you desire suicide, you're bad too and you need help. The conversation isn't about the problems anymore that drive people to suicide, the conversation is about them.

If we really want to help people, we need to change how we perceive mental health issues. We need to change how we perceive suicide. We need to stop associating suicide with a negative connotation. If someone is suicidal, the first reflex shouldn't be hospitalizing them, because you're only fighting the symptoms. Not the causes of these thoughts. We also need to focus more on the reasons for suicide and we also need better treatment/medication for mentally ill people. We know that psychedelics and dissociative has a very positive effect on mentally ill people. Why don't we use that to our advantage instead of relying on a broken system that doesn't help anyone. Striping people away of their rights won't solve any problems.

For example, if there would be as many posters talking about the severe impact of bullying as there are about suicide prevention, well, then I will maybe, probably, take these people and their intentions seriously. But we need to talk about the problems. Seriously.

And last and foremost, because this is SS, we need to provide a reliable and peaceful exit for people who are done with the struggle. For people who are exhausted and tired of this world. For people who don't want to keep going anymore because they know there is no solution to their suffering. I hope we will reach this point very soon. We deserve this. You deserve this. It's unfair and irrational to keep us alive if there is nothing these doctors can do to help us anymore. And they need to learn that. It's not their duty to keep us alive, it's their duty to help us if we seek help. They need to respect our human rights and the right to die in a dignified way is one of them.

But yeah. That was my experience and that's my conclusion based on that experience. My doctors told me today that they can't help me. I was sent home without a second appointment and without an address for a different doctor. But they thought about keeping me there, in the psych ward. Disgusting. Anyway, at least, now that I'm officially and in medical terms, a lost case, I can ctb with peace. I knew it, from the start and I can say: I tried. I wanted to get better. That's for sure. But I feel let down. They don't have the answers.

 

[DyingToCTB]

Well written. You are a quite intelligent person. I am sorry for your suffering.

 

[Going Home]

I'm sorry you were treated that way. The system is so degrading and messed up. I don't know how it can be reformed.

 

[TAW122]

This is very well written. I agree the whole system is a disaster and while I have never been involuntarily committed nor went to a psych ward voluntarily, I read many stories of the horrors of the system. Everything you said about the process is just pure evil and cruelty. I would say that as a start for reform of the system is to do away with involuntary treatment, such as forced medication, forced detainment. People would not be likely to open up if they know that one of the consequences for asking 'help' includes being locked up against their will, forced medication and treatment against their will, then worse being billed for those treatments and services, and finally a mark on their record as well as people learning of their detainment which results in many other social and professional consequences.

The next thing is for society to see that suicide, while it is tragic and sad, that sometimes it can be a valid option given certain circumstances, even outside of terminally ill patients. People who have suffered tremendously and over a long period of time, tried to get help but was unsuccessful, and decided that their time is up should be given the peaceful option to exit life.

 

[Rollo]

Psychiatric system is part of legal system and as such reflects how general public feels. People don't believe in your right to commit suicide and believe in their right to try prevent you from it by confinement and a bunch of motivational cheer up talk.

What kind of help were you looking for - physical or mental?

 

[ron_g]

Many suicidals believe they can get help from suicide prevention. Preventionists in fact claim they offer "help" to people like us. The important question is whose interests they are trying to satisfy? I suppose, in most cases, they're working in the interest of the non-suicidal majority of society. For a number of reasons, society doesn't want to have to deal with suicide. Therefore, suicide must be prevented. At the same time, suicide prevention desires to be seen as a moral thing, not as an endeavor that deprives people of their basic rights. You know what the result looks like.

There are many articles about problems with suicide prevention on MIA. Here's one:
https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/02/asist-suicide-prevention-training/

 

[JustAboutDone]

Hi @RainAndSadness i found your post both thought provoking and quite heart rending :-(

I am so sorry that they just won't help you. And it feels more like a won't than a can't.

How is it with all the different potential psychological therapies and psychiatric medications available they think they have exhausted everything, it feels like they haven't done enough to help you.

Especially as they are quick enough to offer inpatient help if you are actively suicidal. If they have the time and resources to prevent someone from committing suicide then imo they have the time and resources to properly help someone who has asked for it on dealing with their depression and adjustment.

I'm so sorry they have let you down. And it feels so prejudiced and wrong x

 

[TheNorthernSilence]

Wow, that's just so well written and true. I could never put it into words as good as you just did.

 

[AveryConure]

There's really not much I can say that would honestly help you but that's seriously sad and I'm sorry the system has seriously failed you.

 

[CTB-London]

I do think the mental health system is deficient in the UK.

That said I have got to the end of line with medications and (self funded) counselling and now know I have exhausted all possibilities of feeling better about myself . I'm therefore ready to CTB.

 

[JustAboutDone]

I do think the mental health system is deficient in the UK.

That said I have got to the end of line with medications and (self funded) counselling and now know I have exhausted all possibilities of feeling better about myself . I'm therefore ready to CTB.

In the U.K. it depends very much on where you live and where you are in the system as to the care you receive as the mental health service is desperately underfunded. I have had poor experiences in certain parts of England and excellent care in another.

 

[ThinkingAboutThis]

Yes. The system is a disaster. A lot of psychiatric drugs have horrible toxic effects, side effects and withdrawal effects, while the therapy is often done in a way that's not very helpful and focuses on past issues while fully ignoring the present. It's a broken system that doesn't have any honesty or integrity to look at a person in the eye and acknowledge their pain and suffering and help that person with it.

 

[JustAboutDone]

@RainAndSadness is your primary care doctor helpful to you at all?

 

[RainAndSadness]

Well written. You are a quite intelligent person. I am sorry for your suffering.

I'm sorry you were treated that way. The system is so degrading and messed up. I don't know how it can be reformed.

Wow, that's just so well written and true. I could never put it into words as good as you just did.

There's really not much I can say that would honestly help you but that's seriously sad and I'm sorry the system has seriously failed you.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad some of you like the post, I appreciate your comments.

This is very well written. I agree the whole system is a disaster and while I have never been involuntarily committed nor went to a psych ward voluntarily, I read many stories of the horrors of the system. Everything you said about the process is just pure evil and cruelty. I would say that as a start for reform of the system is to do away with involuntary treatment, such as forced medication, forced detainment. People would not be likely to open up if they know that one of the consequences for asking 'help' includes being locked up against their will, forced medication and treatment against their will, then worse being billed for those treatments and services, and finally a mark on their record as well as people learning of their detainment which results in many other social and professional consequences.

The next thing is for society to see that suicide, while it is tragic and sad, that sometimes it can be a valid option given certain circumstances, even outside of terminally ill patients. People who have suffered tremendously and over a long period of time, tried to get help but was unsuccessful, and decided that their time is up should be given the peaceful option to exit life.

Thank you. I struggle with English sometimes but I'm glad people understand my thought-process. I agree with everything you said. We should accept the decisions of people, even if it hurts sometimes. Keeping people alive against their will is a very cruel act. So many people assume we're emotional and therefore doing it on impulse but I don't think that applies to most people who consider suicide. From my experience in this forum, people who contemplate their suicide actually put a lot more thoughts and research into their decisions. We exchange ideas and talk about life and death in a very thoughtful manner. I hope they realize this someday but that's probably not gonna happen for a while.

Psychiatric system is part of legal system and as such reflects how general public feels. People don't believe in your right to commit suicide and believe in their right to try prevent you from it by confinement and a bunch of motivational cheer up talk.

What kind of help were you looking for - physical or mental?

I was looking for mental help. I basically opened up about all the struggles I'm going through since the last 10 years. The doctors understood the severity of my problems and they acknowledged I need very specific and competent help, but they mostly seemed overwhelmed with my case. I mean, if a doctor starts googling for ideas (which really happened today, while I was sitting there), it kinda tells. They just had no answers. But this happened a lot in the past. It's not the first time. Some psychiatrists straight-out rejected me because of that, they said they couldn't do me justice and I understand. My case is kinda like an open fire, you don't want to touch that. Especially if there is a high risk of suicide involved. But it's frustrating, it seems to me like nobody wants to deal with my problems and I basically exhausted all options at this point. Which, at least, gives me some peace.

Hi @RainAndSadness i found your post both thought provoking and quite heart rending :-(

I am so sorry that they just won't help you. And it feels more like a won't than a can't.

How is it with all the different potential psychological therapies and psychiatric medications available they think they have exhausted everything, it feels like they haven't done enough to help you.

Especially as they are quick enough to offer inpatient help if you are actively suicidal. If they have the time and resources to prevent someone from committing suicide then imo they have the time and resources to properly help someone who has asked for it on dealing with their depression and adjustment.

I'm so sorry they have let you down. And it feels so prejudiced and wrong x

Thank you. And yeah, that's the weird part. They said they don't know how to help me, yet they want to keep me alive and prevent suicide? The problem is, suicide is such a stigmatized topic in this society, we have to be very careful when we talk about our desire to die. Their reflex to instantly put us into psych wards makes it really hard for us to open up about our emotions and it only adds hurdles. And if we can't express ourselves and explain the extend of our suffering, how could they treat us accordingly? It's impossible. The current atmosphere is very toxic and it motivates people to keep their suicidal thoughts to themselves, even if they're desperate for support and that's not healthy. The current system is very destructive. I'm glad I quickly retracted my statement and corrected myself when they expressed their intentions about keeping me there, in their facility. I was so incredible worried for a bit. They told me they're obligated to put me into a psych ward if I'm a risk to myself. Who wrote those laws? Unbelievable.

@RainAndSadness is your primary care doctor helpful to you at all?

No. He is simply overwhelmed with my situation, he told this to my therapist (who sent me to the psych ward today for extensive support, which didn't work out at all) and also to my mum. He doesn't know what to do. He tries to understand me but he simply lacks experience. He is glad I have a therapist and he basically doesn't want anything have to do with my mental issues. I'm glad he prescribes some medication though, I have some drugs for sleep and some antidepressants. It's better than nothing.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

It's true that the psychiatric system is a disaster as judged by the year-after-year increases in suicide rates, the increasing incidence of mental health "diseases," the explosion in the "discovery" of new kinds of mental health diseases, and the sustained population prevalence of mental health illnesses despite the monolith of the psychiatric, psychopharmaceutical, and professional psychology industries. This is what you expect in any arena that purports to be founded on legitimate, objective science but which issues instead from opinions, values, imprecise variable characterizations, and hazy association models.

 

[Kirkscoobz]

Sorry to hear of the problems you have wrote, sadly I feel nothing will change in our life time,
I can't remember what episode it was but I watched a Startrek the series once and in this episode they visited a planet wear the old and the sick were given the option of euthanasia, I was shocked at the time but the more I more I thought about it over the years I agreed with it.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I can relate to this so much. I don't have much experience with mental health care, but I do have experience with regular medical care for chronic illness and it's the exact same bullshit. Only treating symptoms, and poorly most of the time. Doctors who are dimissive and never really try to get the the root of problems, no real solutions. Lack of effective treatment options, not being able to get proper pain management without having jump through a million hoops (and that's if you can get it at all). Basically, if the very limited treatment options don't work for you, you're fucked.

The medical system really just abandons or inadequately handles people with chronic problems, both mental and physical.

And if I even mention anything about suicide, not only would I get stuck in a psych ward, i'd have my pain medication taken away forever. Something has to change.

 

[Rollo]

I was looking for mental help. I basically opened up about all the struggles I'm going through since the last 10 years. The doctors understood the severity of my problems and they acknowledged I need very specific and competent help, but they mostly seemed overwhelmed with my case. I mean, if a doctor starts googling for ideas (which really happened today, while I was sitting there), it kinda tells. They just had no answers. But this happened a lot in the past. It's not the first time. Some psychiatrists straight-out rejected me because of that, they said they couldn't do me justice and I understand. My case is kinda like an open fire, you don't want to touch that. Especially if there is a high risk of suicide involved. But it's frustrating, it seems to me like nobody wants to deal with my problems and I basically exhausted all options at this point. Which, at least, gives me some peace.

Yeah googling for ideas is rich. Can you me a taste of what you're talking about? What's your biggest problem?

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

They simply didn't know what to do. They were overwhelmed with the quantity of my issues and they also had no idea how to approach them.

I just wanted to add something here... I've had an appointment at a major US teaching hospital. It is a common practice for psychiatrists and medical services to reject suicidal patients who are deemed "non-compliant." Because these patients are seen as a liability risk and threaten department standings nationally. But the general public, not scientists or physicians themselves, swallow the mental health professionalism mirage whole despite the obvious populational signs that the system is not working. Regardless the publications to this effect, most people still can't be swayed in their religion-like faith in "mental health."

 

[RottenOdysseus]

I relate a lot with this. I got fired from my last therapist because she said I was a lost cause/ wasting my time and that I couldn't do any more than what I already tried. Its really crushing hearing that even professionals that there is nothing you can do.

 

[odette]

Being in the psych ward, being trapped, being terrorized by people doing things to my body no matter how much I cried and begged for them to stop, being constantly degraded and my every movement controlled like I'm a puppet, has made me 100% certain I need to die. When I went in, I was maybe 40% sure I wanted to die, and desperately hoping someone would help me reduce that to 0%. After the psych ward, I absolutely have to die.

 

[Redt2go]

Being in the psych ward, being trapped, being terrorized by people doing things to my body no matter how much I cried and begged for them to stop, being constantly degraded and my every movement controlled like I'm a puppet, has made me 100% certain I need to die. When I went in, I was maybe 40% sure I wanted to die, and desperately hoping someone would help me reduce that to 0%. After the psych ward, I absolutely have to die.

Damn :(

 

[FaceOfSilence]

5.5 weeks in a russian psych ward. Physical abuse, emotional abuse, somehow they expected me to feel better and go on to fix my life after that. Over 5 weeks i had 5 doctors and talked to them about 15 minutes in total, not counting morning check ups with formal greetings and telling that it's all okay. Naturally, there was barely any treatment, no care to speak of, simply locked up in there with no end in sight waiting for something, anything to happen.

Not to mention the insane nurses who should have been locked up there with the rest of inmates to protect the society.

 

[Redt2go]

5.5 weeks in a russian psych ward. Physical abuse, emotional abuse, somehow they expected me to feel better and go on to fix my life after that. Over 5 weeks i had 5 doctors and talked to them about 15 minutes in total, not counting morning check ups with formal greetings and telling that it's all okay. Naturally, there was barely any treatment, no care to speak of, simply locked up in there with no end in sight waiting for something, anything to happen.

Not to mention the insane nurses who should have been locked up there with the rest of inmates to protect the society.

Sheesh

 

[brighter]

In the UK when a flag gets raised or you ask for counselling thy either get you

5.5 weeks in a russian psych ward. Physical abuse, emotional abuse, somehow they expected me to feel better and go on to fix my life after that. Over 5 weeks i had 5 doctors and talked to them about 15 minutes in total, not counting morning check ups with formal greetings and telling that it's all okay. Naturally, there was barely any treatment, no care to speak of, simply locked up in there with no end in sight waiting for something, anything to happen.

Not to mention the insane nurses who should have been locked up there with the rest of inmates to protect the society.

Shit. I didn't know that psych wards got that bad anymore. What's the regulation like there? No independent reviewers or strict enforcement of human rights I'm guessing because over wise that wouldn't be allowed to happen.

 

[FaceOfSilence]

In the UK when a flag gets raised or you ask for counselling thy either get you

Shit. I didn't know that psych wards got that bad anymore. What's the regulation like there? No independent reviewers or strict enforcement of human rights I'm guessing because over wise that wouldn't be allowed to happen.

I mean it's Russia, after all. Punitive healthcare and all that.

 

[brighter]

I mean it's Russia, after all. Punitive healthcare and all that.

What happens if you try and file a complaint? I mean, you might not be in the right mental state to do that and that's perfectly fine, but I'm just curious as to what would happen if you did. Know of any cases?

 

[FaceOfSilence]

What happens if you try and file a complaint? I mean, you might not be in the right mental state to do that and that's perfectly fine, but I'm just curious as to what would happen if you did. Know of any cases?

So, there was a guy in my ward who was there for the 12th time and he claimed that he tried to complain and they never got back at him. Of course, the problem might be that he was put into the ward for almost a dozen times at this point, but the problem is that while it is hard to put up with all that was happening there after you've just tried to ctb the reality of our society is that everything that is going on in there is normal, even my mother would claim that "But nurses have to be tough and distance themselves" (one of the nurses told me people are going to rape me because of my longer hair) and that "Doctors have so much work to do" (i mean out of 5 of my doctors 3 went on vacation a few days after meeting me) and all that stuff.

So you can complain, but noone is going to care. It's normal, it's the way it is supposed to be. Just don't get anywear near psychiatry if you're living in Russia.

 

[brighter]

So, there was a guy in my ward who was there for the 12th time and he claimed that he tried to complain and they never got back at him. Of course, the problem might be that he was put into the ward for almost a dozen times at this point, but the problem is that while it is hard to put up with all that was happening there after you've just tried to ctb the reality of our society is that everything that is going on in there is normal, even my mother would claim that "But nurses have to be tough and distance themselves" (one of the nurses told me people are going to rape me because of my longer hair) and that "Doctors have so much work to do" (i mean out of 5 of my doctors 3 went on vacation a few days after meeting me) and all that stuff.

So you can complain, but noone is going to care. It's normal, it's the way it is supposed to be. Just don't get anywear near psychiatry if you're living in Russia.

I really feel for you, and if you ever have to talk, honestly I don't care what the time is or what I'm doing, I'll be here for you. I want you to get better, people to stop treating you like shit and for you to find peace x

 

[odette]

5.5 weeks in a russian psych ward. Physical abuse, emotional abuse, somehow they expected me to feel better and go on to fix my life after that. Over 5 weeks i had 5 doctors and talked to them about 15 minutes in total, not counting morning check ups with formal greetings and telling that it's all okay. Naturally, there was barely any treatment, no care to speak of, simply locked up in there with no end in sight waiting for something, anything to happen.

Not to mention the insane nurses who should have been locked up there with the rest of inmates to protect the society.

Yes, this is exactly it. From movies and the like, I was under the impression you get some kind of therapy or something there. It turns out their job is just to keep you alive, and they treat you like a lab worker would treat a lab rat to keep it alive. I have PTSD and they kept doing things that triggered complete panic and terror for me. The more I panicked, the more they forced.