Discussion Superiority

[OzymandiAsh]

A post in another thread I made ('Did you ever feel there was more to life?') got this reply, which I found interesting and made me think.

Some of this sounds kind of adjacent to Buddhism which I think is a pretty interesting. I think nobody is inherently special, and nobody is actually superior to anyone else on the planet, life is only as important as we make it out to be.

I wasn't sure why @aufrechtm7 thought the topic of superiority was relevant to that thread, maybe because they inferred from my post that I thought spiritual people were superior or something. This might have been the case in the past, where I did used to consider spirituality as a mark of superiority over shallower people, but is not the case any more.

They say, "nobody is actually superior to anyone else on the planet." Is this true?

Firstly I want to admit that the word superior has a bunch of dirty and imperialist connotations to my mind. For instance, if we talk about a "great poet" and a "superior poet", one of those sounds snobbier than the other, even though we are essentially saying the same thing: a poet that is greater than other poets, a poet who ranks among other great and above-average poets. So the word superior does have weird tones, probably because it seems to harken back to the days of extreme racism.

If we put aside those connotations and discuss the basic facts, though, I do believe that people can be better than other people, in many senses.
Many people for example are much better than Donald Trump, Epstein, and so on.

I have no trouble admitting that some people are better than me, at least some of the time or in certain ways. Some people are my intellectual superiors (or, at least, they are superior in their education and erudition). Some people are probably my moral superiors (there are certainly people who have done more to help other people or improve the world than I have). And so on.

Whether one admits it or not, and even whether one wants to or not, I think pretty much everyone sees the world and people in this way, through this paradigm of some being better than others, according to their personal values. For example, if you looked at the world through the eyes of Donald Trump (please excuse me for a moment; *shudders, cries, and vomits*), you would see strongmen macho males, hustlers, business-savvy types, and "winners" as superior people.

I actually see this as a kind of punishment. We are condemned to perpetually judge some people to be better than others, and we are condemned to think ourselves better than others - humanity's intrinsic vanity. Even if you think that the criteria for superiority is having superior humility, or a superior sense of equality. You still haven't done away with the notion of superiority entirely. I think this is a problem or paradox that many religions try to address.

For example, Islam suggests that true superiority lies in superior humility, remembrance and connection with Allah, dutifulness, willingness to face death, and so on.
Christianity, in its basic generalised form (apart from the stricter forms, which have their own troubles), essentially suggests that the only true superiority lies in superior capacity to love and forgive. I am not a Christian, but this is actually the closest thing to an answer, in my view. If there is any real escape from one's own vanity at all, any salvation or redemption from it, or any social resolution of the vanity virus that appears to infect all humanity, then it must be in love and compassion. Yet even then, you have not totally done away with the notion of superiority. Christians regard Christ as the shining examplar for humanity, and Christ himself certainly thought himself superior in many ways. Arguably, Islam does more to combat the notion of superiority, or at least to confuse it and make us reflect more deeply about it; Muhammad is not considered divine, or even particularly superior, in any way other than his devotion and commitment to God, and Islam was perhaps the first religion to explicitly state a doctrine of racial equality ("No Arab has superiority over a non-Arab, nor a non-Arab over an Arab; no white over a black, nor a black over a white—except by piety").

Of course, the predominant 'religion' today is neither Christianity nor Islam, but rather, CAPITALISM! By which superiority lies in superior networth, superior capacity to work and earn, and superior capacity to compete for Wealth.

Anyway, those are my thoughts for now. Tagging @meddle who was also in the initial conversation and might be interested.

 

[aufrechtm7]

When I read the second half of your post and how your spiritual journey went, (spiritual growth followed by your discovery of truth) it made me think about the inherent value of humans. Not that I thought you believed you were superior to anyone else, but I perceived it as you possibly thinking less of yourself without that spiritual journey especially when you said not to take life so seriously which I do agree as having merit at times.

There's different layers to superiority. Someone can be superior in terms of skill or ethics, but this doesn't necessarily mean they're inherently superior; as in one's inherent value. I'm not saying you, but I've seen others fall into philosophical trap holes which hurts their self esteem and makes them believe that reflects reality when it doesn't.

In the previous thread I mentioned that I mostly follow Immanuel Kant on this sort of stuff and his argument essentially goes as this: Humans can think, make choices, and decide what's right. Because of this, every human has value that can't be taken away or measured by money, status, or skill.

Abrahamic religion teaches everyone is inherently equal because God willed it as such, but it's usually complicated by other things which could be a separate post in of itself.

Those are my thoughts and I think other people looking inward on stuff like this is a good thing especially with the problem most people here are actively dealing with. Whether or not you're trying to change your mind on something, it's always good to engage with your own beliefs.

 

[meddle]

im probably repeating myself, but will write this anyway

you can be smarter than others, more talanted, etc, but this doesnt make you superior. a billionaire, a president, a nobel laureate are just as people as an ordinary joe cashier at mcdonalds. they are not superior to him, and all of them must have equal rights

you can say that we are superior to child molesters. well that maybe is true, because child molesters are aware of the fact that their action will cause great harm to child and do it anyway. but i refuse to believe that we are superior to nazis, because 1) they were made to believe that this is the only right way 2) they did all of theirs atrocities believing that, that they must do it for the greater good (well, except for psychopaths who just liked to kill)

but this is a hard topic indeed

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's an interesting topic. To begin with, I'd say multiple people can be described as 'great.' We could say Michael Jordan was one of the greats- in basketball. To say a person is 'superior' though- tends to indicate they are better than most- if not all- others- to my mind.

It's actually a pretty stupid phrase when you think of it too. Sir Roger Bannister ran the first sub four minute mile back in 1954. He would have been classed 'supperior' then. That record has been broken now though. Google reckons well over 2,000 male athletes have now beaten the four minute mile record. Maybe each new record means that person is superior to the last but regardless- they are all 'greats' in that sport and I suppose- all superior to the average person- at running anyway.

It's undeniable that some people are better than others at certain things. As to whether we regard them as special though- that comes down to individual bias too I imagine. Some people more or less worship rock stars, sports stars, actors. A chess fanatic would likely feel the same towards a Grandmaster. We can probably all recognise that some inventors revolutionised everyone's lives. I imagine who we admire as 'great' tends to be influenced by our own interests and ambitions.

To flip it though- would anyone be comfortable saying that a person has no worth? I imagine only those who are incredibly cruel or the person themselves- if they are so full of self hatred/ disgust will claim that some people/ they themselves have no worth at all. Even someone who has failed every subject may still be loved by those around them.

There's also the concept of 'human rights'. We are born with a certain amount of rights- which will vary according to where we live. But- as an infant- we've done nothing to prove how valuable we may become at that stage. We also- unfairly- tend to attribute rights to categories of people throughout life according to social status say- which isn't necessarily earnt.

Suicide prevention is also entangled with this notion of worth too. Not just current worth but, future potential. So- that seems to play a role too. Someone may not be terribly valuable now but, they may show the potential to really go far. Many people seem to see just being alive as valuable. Whether we achieve anything or not. Otherwise, there wouldn't be such opposition to assisted suicide.

I think we have a rather utopian idea that everyone alive has a valuable niche in contributing in some way to this world.

This actually reminded me of the film: 'Worth' (2020) which centred on the 9/11 compensation fund and touched on the issue of: How much should a human life be compensated for in monetry value? Should a person's family who was a janitor be compensated the same amount as someone who was a CEO or high- ranking executive? It's an incredibly difficult subject.

I suppose I have my own personal take on it too. My Mum died when I was 3. She was 40. On paper, she was a fairly average person. She worked in an office and lead a fairly quiet life. Her loss was felt terribly by so many people when she died though. Because I believe she was a kind, good person that it was simply nice to be around. So, I suppose I came to the conclusion that really- maybe it was that that was more important than anything else. That can be hard to achieve too. To remain pleasant when life is sometimes so difficult and stressful.

 

[itsgone2]

Maybe superior is not the right word but some people are absolutely better than others. I'm not in that group. But it's easy to see and I'm tired of being part of that lower group. There's no changing it. But it doesn't matter hopefully the end is soon.