MANGIONESHUSBAND
Member
- Jan 28, 2025
- 36
Hear me out ok. I know I sound crazy. Here's what I'm not saying: I'm not saying that suicide isn't dispropionately done by people who are depressed because it is. Obviously factually speaking we as humans as did every species evolved to want to live. What I am saying is that depression is not the ONLY reason people consider suicide and it's only one half of the equation.
For example let's consider this. Women are disportionately diagnosed with mood disorders like depression and anxiety yet more men commit suicide. Now this could be that the way men present mood disorders is expressed differently making it harder to diagnose as well as the fact that less men seek therapy. But I propose another theory well more like hypothesis. Suicide is also about agency and more likely someone is to value things like agency, autonomy, and self determination the more likely they are to consider or to be comfortable with the idea of committing suicide. Please keep in mind I'm talking about active suicidal ideation and or people who are comfortable with the idea of actively taking steps to end their own lives.
Maybe because I've had chronic SI since I was like 10. So my opinion is biased. But I've noticed a lot of anti-suicide rhetoric is often focused on this idea of social responsibility. "You hurt the people you leave behind". "You don't have a right to do that". Etc. It's more about the responsibility you have to not do an action and sort of shame and moral opposition to suicide as an action than genuine engagement with the feelings of chronic misery. It also explains why men are more likely to commit suicide than women. Men are more socialized to value autonomy, stoicism, rugged individualism the idea that they deserve things should have access to things and to take control. It's also reflected in the methods they choose (which are more successful disproportionately than women's methods). These methods are often violent such as gunshot wound or fatal stabbing. These are active self determined action based violent methods. Often when I think of killing myself I think to myself "be a man just fucking do it!!". This conflation of my masculinity with my right and need to take self determined action. Women are more suspectible to social responsibility based rhetoric. They're more socialized to sacrifice for others like the family or society, etc. That they are less entitled to and are worthy of things. Another point is I find it weird that in countries where suicide is the most stigmatized and even criminalized simultaneously things like the death penalty exist andol people follow extremely violent and cruel religions like Christianity and Islam. People pay to watch public executions. They spent a crazy amount on civilian warfare and self defense. Etc. It's almost like it's not a value of life it's a hatred of autonomy. They don't hate death they hate the fact that suicide is an act of agency. The idea of someone having agency over how they die disgusts them. It is no surprise these societies are overwhelmingly religious because these societies are like "you think you should decide when you die??? No!!! That's God's decision". Whereas countries that legalized assisted suicide these countries rank higher on Freedom Indexes. Like in countries like Yemen or Palestine people are objectively more depressed than here in America or in places like Canada (and for good reason too). Yet less people in those countries commit suicide. So clearly it's not just depression that causes suicide. A common thread is also that Yemen and Palestine(50% of children in Gaza have no will to live) have strong Islamic influence Islam is very heavy on following rules following God's plan not having agency. Not having agency and sacrificing for the greater good are normalized cultural ideas over there. So maybe the reason they commit suicide less is because they are simply less susceptible to the idea they have the right to or are deserving of the right to make their own decisions regarding bodily autonomy. Whereas it makes sense that here in America where cultural conversations always centre around freedom (unless you're AFAB or have a uterus then fuck you) more people commit suicide. Maybe even you could tell what direction the country is headed civil liberties wise based on how they feel about suicide. I don't subscribe to the idea that every suicide can be prevented or maybe even should be prevented. Because like cancer sometimes suicidal ideation is just fucking terminal and there's nothing we can do about it. And acting like very suicide is preventable causes unnecessary guilt in loved ones and care professionals and in suicidal individuals. What am I saying is maybe the path forward for suicide activism (as in activism for suicidal people and their self actualization and well being whether that be ethical safe methods or treatment or whatever path they choose and human rights based mental health approaches is figure out how to restore a sense of healthy agency and autonomy. If suicide prevention language focused more on human rights and agency and power and empowerment over moralizing and vague it gets better don't do it platitudes. I feel like this would improve suicide activism generally. And more importantly improve men's mental health especially.
Feel free to disagree with me but it's worth noting I'd love to hear your opinions on the comments
For example let's consider this. Women are disportionately diagnosed with mood disorders like depression and anxiety yet more men commit suicide. Now this could be that the way men present mood disorders is expressed differently making it harder to diagnose as well as the fact that less men seek therapy. But I propose another theory well more like hypothesis. Suicide is also about agency and more likely someone is to value things like agency, autonomy, and self determination the more likely they are to consider or to be comfortable with the idea of committing suicide. Please keep in mind I'm talking about active suicidal ideation and or people who are comfortable with the idea of actively taking steps to end their own lives.
Maybe because I've had chronic SI since I was like 10. So my opinion is biased. But I've noticed a lot of anti-suicide rhetoric is often focused on this idea of social responsibility. "You hurt the people you leave behind". "You don't have a right to do that". Etc. It's more about the responsibility you have to not do an action and sort of shame and moral opposition to suicide as an action than genuine engagement with the feelings of chronic misery. It also explains why men are more likely to commit suicide than women. Men are more socialized to value autonomy, stoicism, rugged individualism the idea that they deserve things should have access to things and to take control. It's also reflected in the methods they choose (which are more successful disproportionately than women's methods). These methods are often violent such as gunshot wound or fatal stabbing. These are active self determined action based violent methods. Often when I think of killing myself I think to myself "be a man just fucking do it!!". This conflation of my masculinity with my right and need to take self determined action. Women are more suspectible to social responsibility based rhetoric. They're more socialized to sacrifice for others like the family or society, etc. That they are less entitled to and are worthy of things. Another point is I find it weird that in countries where suicide is the most stigmatized and even criminalized simultaneously things like the death penalty exist andol people follow extremely violent and cruel religions like Christianity and Islam. People pay to watch public executions. They spent a crazy amount on civilian warfare and self defense. Etc. It's almost like it's not a value of life it's a hatred of autonomy. They don't hate death they hate the fact that suicide is an act of agency. The idea of someone having agency over how they die disgusts them. It is no surprise these societies are overwhelmingly religious because these societies are like "you think you should decide when you die??? No!!! That's God's decision". Whereas countries that legalized assisted suicide these countries rank higher on Freedom Indexes. Like in countries like Yemen or Palestine people are objectively more depressed than here in America or in places like Canada (and for good reason too). Yet less people in those countries commit suicide. So clearly it's not just depression that causes suicide. A common thread is also that Yemen and Palestine(50% of children in Gaza have no will to live) have strong Islamic influence Islam is very heavy on following rules following God's plan not having agency. Not having agency and sacrificing for the greater good are normalized cultural ideas over there. So maybe the reason they commit suicide less is because they are simply less susceptible to the idea they have the right to or are deserving of the right to make their own decisions regarding bodily autonomy. Whereas it makes sense that here in America where cultural conversations always centre around freedom (unless you're AFAB or have a uterus then fuck you) more people commit suicide. Maybe even you could tell what direction the country is headed civil liberties wise based on how they feel about suicide. I don't subscribe to the idea that every suicide can be prevented or maybe even should be prevented. Because like cancer sometimes suicidal ideation is just fucking terminal and there's nothing we can do about it. And acting like very suicide is preventable causes unnecessary guilt in loved ones and care professionals and in suicidal individuals. What am I saying is maybe the path forward for suicide activism (as in activism for suicidal people and their self actualization and well being whether that be ethical safe methods or treatment or whatever path they choose and human rights based mental health approaches is figure out how to restore a sense of healthy agency and autonomy. If suicide prevention language focused more on human rights and agency and power and empowerment over moralizing and vague it gets better don't do it platitudes. I feel like this would improve suicide activism generally. And more importantly improve men's mental health especially.
Feel free to disagree with me but it's worth noting I'd love to hear your opinions on the comments
