Discussion Suicide instead of sickness.

[ShroomsHere]

I think it's sad that suicide is seen in such a negative view. I think if we could reposition it as an alternative to sickness/aging issues. It would be more widely accepted.
I understand some people use it as a way to escape and another solution to their issues. Though I feel the age range is so low it's hard to know if it's truly made in good faith.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[FuneralCry]

I understand, and I see it as the most terrible, horrific world where suicide is seen as something criminal with the suffering and torture of existing seen as to force and prolong no matter what instead, for me non-existence is just all that's positive and for me ceasing to exist would be a positive solution to escape from all futile unnecessary suffering in this existence so torturous and futile that just leads to decay and death anyway.

I personally just don't see the benefit to being burdened with this deeply undesirable existence where there is no limit as to how much one can be tortured just waiting to die anyway, to suffer for decades longer just to face the torture and agony of old age would be such a terrible punishment to me, I'd never wish to be conscious of anything at all, for me non-existence would be the solution, it'd solve everything for me and finally bring me peace from this torturous, futile existence I never would had chosen that I just always saw as a mistake, for me suicide is suffering prevention.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'd hope that maybe the majority would see suicide as a reasonable and humane choice for someone who was in chronic pain, suffering and who wanted out.

Regarding other issues and the age at which is should be available, that's more contentious. As someone who started having ideation young- aged 10- like a lot of members here- I have great sympathy with younger people who already feel like they want out.

I suppose it depends on the circumstances. Developing ideation that young though tends to suggest possibly a few things- health issues and possibly troubles at home. I guess the benefit of holding on for longer would mean that they could potentially move out of a toxic home environment. That helped at least initially for me. But then- not everyone can do that.

The problem with stipulating ages is that someone suffering will simply have to suffer for that long. That all said though- my personal feeling is that 18 is reasonable. We are assessed to be able to make other impactful decisions at that age. I do though- absolutely think that all people applying for assisted suicide should go through an assessment process. Where other sollutions and support are suggested. I also think a 6 month waiting period is a good idea to try to prevent impulsive attempts.

I suppose, just from a personal stance too- I wonder if my feelings really have changed all that much. I'm 45 now. Was I really so enormously different at 18? I did make the effort to turn life around multiple times and just speaking personally- I'm not sure it was worth it! Had I died all that time ago- sure, I would have missed Game of Thrones and a couple of career achievements. I also would have spared myself a whole bunch of stress and discomfort, gallstones, multiple bereavements. Years and years of working to support a life I don't even want.

As it is, I feel stuck here- more than actually wanting to be here. Because, I've always felt like I needed to wait for my Dad to go first. But still- I'm not sure it was worth it for me personally to hold on. It will be for others of course- there's no denying that but- I don't know how you ascertain that. How can we predict who will end up happy or not?

Plus- just objectively speaking. I suppose it depends on belief. I tend to think when we die, that's it. So- had I died at 20 say- I don't believe I could be regretting anything after death. And- let's say there is an afterlife- we'll be busy living that- surely? The only problem would be if we go to hell for suicide.

What are your thoughts OP? It does vary here. A couple of people are promortalist- nembutal for all enthusiasts. The majority though are in favour of some regulations. The age thing is contentious though. Some say 18, some say 24. Some believe that only those with diagnosed medical conditions should be eligible. It varies a lot.

 

[ShroomsHere]

I'd hope that maybe the majority would see suicide as a reasonable and humane choice for someone who was in chronic pain, suffering and who wanted out.

Regarding other issues and the age at which is should be available, that's more contentious. As someone who started having ideation young- aged 10- like a lot of members here- I have great sympathy with younger people who already feel like they want out.

I suppose it depends on the circumstances. Developing ideation that young though tends to suggest possibly a few things- health issues and possibly troubles at home. I guess the benefit of holding on for longer would mean that they could potentially move out of a toxic home environment. That helped at least initially for me. But then- not everyone can do that.

The problem with stipulating ages is that someone suffering will simply have to suffer for that long. That all said though- my personal feeling is that 18 is reasonable. We are assessed to be able to make other impactful decisions at that age. I do though- absolutely think that all people applying for assisted suicide should go through an assessment process. Where other sollutions and support are suggested. I also think a 6 month waiting period is a good idea to try to prevent impulsive attempts.

I suppose, just from a personal stance too- I wonder if my feelings really have changed all that much. I'm 45 now. Was I really so enormously different at 18? I did make the effort to turn life around multiple times and just speaking personally- I'm not sure it was worth it! Had I died all that time ago- sure, I would have missed Game of Thrones and a couple of career achievements. I also would have spared myself a whole bunch of stress and discomfort, gallstones, multiple bereavements. Years and years of working to support a life I don't even want.

As it is, I feel stuck here- more than actually wanting to be here. Because, I've always felt like I needed to wait for my Dad to go first. But still- I'm not sure it was worth it for me personally to hold on. It will be for others of course- there's no denying that but- I don't know how you ascertain that. How can we predict who will end up happy or not?

Plus- just objectively speaking. I suppose it depends on belief. I tend to think when we die, that's it. So- had I died at 20 say- I don't believe I could be regretting anything after death. And- let's say there is an afterlife- we'll be busy living that- surely? The only problem would be if we go to hell for suicide.

What are your thoughts OP? It does vary here. A couple of people are promortalist- nembutal for all enthusiasts. The majority though are in favour of some regulations. The age thing is contentious though. Some say 18, some say 24. Some believe that only those with diagnosed medical conditions should be eligible. It varies a lot.

Personally I agree with everything you said, I think 18 is a perfect age for it. I mean at 18 we allow almost anything and anything past 18 wouldn't make sense. I feel once you have left your parents house and living on your own, you should have the right to do anything you want. I do understand the prefrontal cortex is what a lot of people bring up but if someone is set on CTB they'll find a way. So like you said with the 6 month wait would be the best way to stop impulse and past that no one should have a say in it. I find it horrible that people will go as far as CTB with a rope, I am only relieved by the fact their suffering has passed but those couple seconds before are close to what I would think hell is. When it all could be done with a syringe and no suffering. So I think the rules should go as such, 1: 18yo, 2: 4-6 month wait, 3: state provided doctor for possible other solutions.
Sorry if it came off as a rant but hope that's a good response.

 

[maylurker]

So I think the rules should go as such, 1: 18yo,

i think 18yo would be way too soon for voluntary suicide because peoples mind change drastically 18-25 and most of the problems that seem huge at 18 would make us laugh at 25

 

[ShroomsHere]

i think 18yo would be way too soon for voluntary suicide because peoples mind change drastically 18-25 and most of the problems that seem huge at 18 would make us laugh at 25

I don't exactly disagree but like I said before at that age you can do almost anything. So if you wanted to CTB at that point all it takes is the knowledge and will power. I should reference a video I saw yesterday on a LiveLeak copy cat, the girl used a running train to CTB. Which was in Russia but it happens all the time in Japan. To the point where I had some friends go for a 2 week long vacation and it happened while they were there.

So if countries started to implement what I proposed, I believe we would see an immediate increase in CTB but also people getting better. I think another big thing that would also happen is a cultural shift in perspective when talking about CTB etc. which would be beneficial considering it would be more face to face and people would feel less secluded I believe as well.

Let me know what you think.

 

[maylurker]

I don't exactly disagree but like I said before at that age you can do almost anything. So if you wanted to CTB at that point all it takes is the knowledge and will power. I should reference a video I saw yesterday on a LiveLeak copy cat, the girl used a running train to CTB. Which was in Russia but it happens all the time in Japan. To the point where I had some friends go for a 2 week long vacation and it happened while they were there.

So if countries started to implement what I proposed, I believe we would see an immediate increase in CTB but also people getting better. I think another big thing that would also happen is a cultural shift in perspective when talking about CTB etc. which would be beneficial considering it would be more face to face and people would feel less secluded I believe as well.

Let me know what you think.

i think you kinda underestimate how much passive protection society currently provides just by making the default methods slow painful messy or logistically annoying. most people who ctb with trains in japan arent walking around with cbt intent all the time. most are in a moment of extreme impulse + easy opportunity. remove that friction and you absolutely get more completions. when bridges get nets or barriers when gas ovens get switched to low-co when charcoal bags get restricted in hong kong and sri lanka suicides drop hard and the total number of deaths goes down not just shifts to other methods. the impulse frequently passes if you force it to survive the next 30-90 minutes.

 

[ShroomsHere]

i think you kinda underestimate how much passive protection society currently provides just by making the default methods slow painful messy or logistically annoying. most people who ctb with trains in japan arent walking around with cbt intent all the time. most are in a moment of extreme impulse + easy opportunity. remove that friction and you absolutely get more completions. when bridges get nets or barriers when gas ovens get switched to low-co when charcoal bags get restricted in hong kong and sri lanka suicides drop hard and the total number of deaths goes down not just shifts to other methods. the impulse frequently passes if you force it to survive the next 30-90 minutes.

I agree, but those who choose public CTB are often in such profound pain that they opt for a more unfavorable method. If people had a structured way to reach out after truly thinking it through, they could access a gentler option. Those last six months I mentioned would feel like bliss for someone in that state. The friction remains with the six month wait and built in passive protections always in place. To emphasize: I don't want easier or faster access for anyone. I want a simpler path paired with genuine thorough understanding.