Reflections on Christ today

[EternalShore]

At work today, I saw the movie, "The Last Temptation of Christ" on the shelf~ I went ahead and looked at the cover and saw that it showed Jesus on the cross~ usually, one thinks of how Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, so this made me think a bit~ Jesus had all the power in the world to stop what happened to Him, but He didn't let it happen because He knew that it was His mission to save humanity~ However, He certainly didn't want to die that way~ He could've stopped it at any point and just given himself everything He was tempted to own~ In fact, they even mentioned this in the Bible~ He could've been tempted just to come off the cross until He died~ meanwhile, we want to dry, so being martyred like this doesn't sound like too big a deal~ however, when we think of committing sewer slide, we want to minimize the amount of pain~ fairly certain that no one here has considered sewer slide by crucifixion, but I'm open to being proven wrong~ meanwhile, Jesus was given one of the most painful methods of execution (I've heard ana-tsurushi is worse)~ >_< I just think it's amazing that Jesus could've turned everything around and was certainly tempted to the very end but chose not to~

 

[DarkRange55]

 

[Dejected 55]

At the same time... Jesus also knew his death would not be permanent. So... was he ever really tempted when he knew what the plan was all along and how it would turn out for him?

I think the story of Jesus would have made more sense if Jesus was an aspect of God that didn't know he was God and didn't know of his destiny... but rather was a good man who tried to spread good and was betrayed and killed for it... then surprised to find himself returned to the world 3 days later with full knowledge of who he really was and how he had saved mankind.

That version feels like a version that would position him more favorably than a guy who always knew he was the "son of God" and carried his life that way and knew he was making a sacrifice for humanity and knew he ultimately would only suffer that little bit for it before coming back afterwards.

Or maybe that's just me sitting on the sidelines.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think the story of Jesus would have made more sense if Jesus was an aspect of God that didn't know he was God and didn't know of his destiny... but rather was a good man who tried to spread good and was betrayed and killed for it... then surprised to find himself returned to the world 3 days later with full knowledge of who he really was and how he had saved mankind.

That's the part I've never quite understood. Was God Jesus at that time or, were they separate? It feels more of a sacrifice if God sacrificed itself but to let 'his' son go through that? Why do people think he's this great, caring father if he let 'his' own son experience that? Becauss 'he'/ they love humanity even more?

Because there was no other way? Really? Didn't they just need death plus resurection to prove there was an afterlife? Certainly, it was more memorable I suppose. Plus- dying as a martyr I suppose elevates a religious figure.

But- like you say OP- they were/ are one or two beings with the greatest power there is- presumably. The most intelligent too. Could neither see any other way to cement their image in history? Was pain required even?

Even Jesus didn't seem utterly content with the decision at the end- didn't he ask why he had been forsaken? Wasn't that the point to strike him with a lightening bolt- something to quickly end it for him? A mercy killing.

Why watch your own child die in agony? Again- does that mean God enjoys watching people suffer in pain? That pain is a necessary requirement?

Also- how did it 'save' humanity? It demonstrated there was an afterlife I suppose. It gave weight to all the other things he was saying- presumably. It gave hope to criminals- that they can get into heaven if they believe in God and Christ. What if we don't want an eternal life in heaven though?

A lot of it doesn't make sense to me. God was supposedly already angry. Why did Jesus dying on the cross atone for the sins God was already angry about? Why would that appease 'him'? It's like having a really awful neighbour that acts up for years and it culminates in them torturing and crucifying one of our family members. Why would that atone for all the other bad things they did? Wouldn't that just be the cherry on the cake?

Was Jesus representing humankind and sacrificing themselves to appease their angry God father? But again- why does God demand that suffering?

Aparently, the whole thing was to reunite us with God's love. But then- asides from the hell side of things- would it be so bad to be without God's love? If the way they express it is to leave their only son to die in agony, nailed to a cross- is that the kind of parent we want?

I would have made Jesus fly up to heaven, carrying the cross. Maybe a few laps of the world- like Superman. Why even kill the human version at all? Surely- that would demonstrate supernatural power. Christ could still be alive today- if they'd wanted that. We could be hearing God's word from the horses mouth- as it were. How many atheists would there be with a flying Jesus around?

Seems to me like God still wants people to get it 'wrong'. Maybe so 'he' can still punish us.

If it's all true, then Jesus very possibly did go through so much for what he believed in, in the hopes it would 'save' us. I can understand people being amazed and grateful for that sacrifice. But, I can't personally get over the horror and disgust I feel at the father who could have prevented that but- didn't. Again- I can't see God as anything but a sadist.

I suppose that's why I hope God doesn't exist. I also think Jesus may well have existed but- what if they were schizophrenic say. What if all the 'miracles' were illusions? They used to use automata to make people believe statues could move etc. in some ancient temples. If David Blaine wasn't honest about being a magician, mentalist and endurance performer- wouldn't his stunts appear to be miracles? Imagine David Blaine with 12 disciples. All utterly committed to creating incredible illusions. Imagine if only their reviews of his show existed afterwards.

I imagine there are religious cults or even sports groups where people are so entrenched that they buy into their leader being something extraordinary. It's hard to believe this is even real but:

 

[Dejected 55]

Yeah... Catholics (maybe Protestants too?) believe in the "holy trinity" where there is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit... each aspects of God. I don't pretend to understand the pitch here, but this belief basically ties Jesus and God together as aspects of the same being.

Other branches of Christianity I think just treat Jesus like God's actual proper son via Mary.

I'm not even touching on the whole "virgin" Mary thing that makes no sense and absolutely no one would believe for a second if it happened in modern times with the understanding we have of reproduction... and then Joseph is kind of a cuck, when you think about it.

Meanwhile... God is supposed to be all knowing and all powerful... but somehow it was "necessary" for him to create Jesus (either as an aspect of himself or his actual son) and then let Jesus be killed in order to save humanity? I mean... couldn't God just forgive people and tell them some "new" rules or something? As something you're supposed to take literally it makes zero sense... but even if you try and look for the metaphor and larger meaning spiritually and not literally it still doesn't make a lot of sense.

I mean... a version that would make more sense would be IF God sent his son to earth and his son tries to get people to be better people... but is rejected and betrayed and killed as he was... then God should throw up his hands (as he has in the past via the Old Testament) and say "fuck this shit" and kill everyone and start over again, maybe allowing some of Jesus' followers to survive because they "got" the new message.

Old Testament God straight up asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac... and let the dude get all the way to the point of having his son ready to stab at the altar before saying "Nevermind, dude... it's enough to me to know you would kill your son without cause just because I ask you."

Some Christians like to quote from the Old Testament to support stuff, but point to the New Testament when they don't like something in the Old Testament... other Christians want to ignore the Old Testament entirely, even as they use its prophecy of the prophet Jesus to support how Jesus was "the man" basically... but they kind of don't like you pointing out smiting God and the evil shit he was up to wiping out people over and over.

I respect people having religion and all, even though I can't believe in any of it... but whenever people start to get uppity about it and judge me, I am reminded how none of it makes any kind of sense or holds up to any real scrutiny.

That's not what is going on in this thread... but it's why I kind of have the take I have in posting on this thread when it comes to reflecting on Jesus today. So much of what is the belief in Jesus or God is dependent on it all having been created/written a couple thousand years ago when people were a lot more ignorant about how reality worked and needed to make up stuff to explain things.

Also, not for nothing... but all the things written about Jesus that were put into the New Testament... things supposedly written by people who were with Jesus at the time... none of it was collected and used to create the religion until something like 100 years later... when neither Jesus nor any of his followers with direct knowledge of him were around to verify anything anymore. So who knows if the writings are even actually the writings of the people who knew him.

 

[doomedbynarrative]

Personally, I think Jesus was just a guy. A guy who was trying to make a difference by telling people to feed the poor, stop listening to the corrupt religious leaders that used religious law to make people's lives harder than they needed to be, to have mercy on and forgive those who do wrong because they're human, and to look after the outcasts in society and the sick.

He was crucified because his teachings were reaching people and both the Romans and the Pharisees/Saducees saw a threat to the power they held in the region. If enough people started acting like Jesus did there would be too much hope and some people could use it to cause a revolt.

The Romans did NOT mess around with revolts. They preferred to nip them in the bud before they happened and made brutal examples out of would be revolt leaders and anyone who did not comply with the way they ran things. And one way to keep people from revolting was to give a modicum of power to their religious leaders who could keep people under control and oppressed by laws.

Jesus didn't die as a sacrifice nor was he God incarnate. He died because they didn't like what he had to say. And they'd kill him again if he existed today.

 

[itsgone2]

For those that feel the need to trash Christian beliefs on every thread like this, please consider just keeping your thoughts to yourself. Not only offensive, but boringly repetitive.

 

[doomedbynarrative]

For those that feel the need to trash Christian beliefs on every thread like this, please consider just keeping your thoughts to yourself. Not only offensive, but boringly repetitive.

Sorry if my post came off as trashing. Wasn't my intent and I think religious beliefs of any kind can be a beautiful thing for a lot of people. I actually like Jesus a lot as a person. I just don't ascribe to the religious beliefs of/in him.

 

[martyrdom]

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[Dejected 55]

For those that feel the need to trash Christian beliefs on every thread like this, please consider just keeping your thoughts to yourself. Not only offensive, but boringly repetitive.

You'd kind of have to define what is considered "trashing" Christian beliefs. The OP starts with mentioning having recently watched "The Last Temptation of Christ" and ruminating then about Jesus as a result. Back when that movie came out in theaters, MANY Christians in the US protested and wanted the movie banned... so, had the OP wanted to go see the movie back then, even as a Christian, OP would have been trashed by his fellow Christians for the heresy and sacrilege of even wanting to see that movie.

I think that reaction toned down over the years... If you've ever been in a Catholic Church, they often (always maybe? I've only been inside a couple) have the stations of the cross and the actual crucifixion of Jesus is a really violent and horror-like thing. Ignoring whether Jesus was divine or not... assuming he was a man who existed, going through that torture is insane to imagine... having to carry your own cross like that and then being nailed to it? Then again, there are those who make the point that the nails were actually a kindness... because though they hurt, they caused him to bleed to death much quicker than if he'd just been rope-tied like usual crucifixions were done... and he could have been hanging there a week or more before he died of starvation/dehydration.

Catholics, the founders of Christianity, also usually teach that you should question everything. I've had some in depth discussions with Catholics who don't mind you scrutinizing their belief and the ones who study and are sincere in their faith actually seem to kind of enjoy digging deep and responding to questions about how their religion doesn't make sense... as long as you aren't insulting them in the process.

Point being, I think any legitimate religion should be able to stand up to scrutiny... and when people don't like being questioned, it makes me want to question more... kind of like the same Catholic church that really tried hard to make the priest molestation scandals disappear... that wasn't a good look... they were far better served by the clergy who were willing to listen and investigate and admit there were people within the church who had failed the church.

 

[itsgone2]

Sorry if my post came off as trashing. Wasn't my intent and I think religious beliefs of any kind can be a beautiful thing for a lot of people. I actually like Jesus a lot as a person. I just don't ascribe to the religious beliefs of/in him.

I appreciate you're saying sorry. Thank you.