Questions re veterinary pentobarbital & dosage?

[slapntickle]

Just interested in exploring the Pheno route once more, and have a couple of questions that I need answering by someone more learned than I...

If one searches the clear web, there are numerous sites that sell veterinary phenobarbital, such as:

PENBITAL Eutha 400 mg/ml solution for injection

Solution for injection containing pentobarbital for painless and calm euthanasia of animals.

www.bioveta.eu

...there are lots of others too. I'm 100% clear that I could never buy this as an individual, but there are ways and means to get it if one really puts their mind to it (social engineering on a lonely vet lab tech for example, or paying drug addicts to rob a clinic).

The questions I have are really around would it be worth it? Am I right in thinking the reason that this isn't blowing up as a CBT method is that it's too hard for a layman to properly administer the IV dose needed? If one looks at the data on the link above, the bottle seems to have more than enough dosage to do a human. The results vary massively between animals (which I really don't understand), but if one takes dogs as a baseline, then even a 100kg human being would only need 30ml or so (and the bottle is 100ml). I look on other sites though, and the LD50 is quoted as around 75mg/kg, meaning the bottle is almost useless (as it only has around 360mg of actual PB). Which is correct?

The next question is around oral doses. If one looks at information around those, it seems that it rockets up around 140mg/kg (for rats). That means that again, the bottle is fairly useless, and all the info on the link above is basically wrong. That said, I can't imagine a manufacturer would make a product that would need loads of bottles to put down a cow or a horse.

Can anyone help clear this up?

 

[VegasLyra]

Just interested in exploring the Pheno route once more, and have a couple of questions that I need answering by someone more learned than I...

If one searches the clear web, there are numerous sites that sell veterinary phenobarbital, such as:

PENBITAL Eutha 400 mg/ml solution for injection

Solution for injection containing pentobarbital for painless and calm euthanasia of animals.

www.bioveta.eu

...there are lots of others too. I'm 100% clear that I could never buy this as an individual, but there are ways and means to get it if one really puts their mind to it (social engineering on a lonely vet lab tech for example, or paying drug addicts to rob a clinic).

The questions I have are really around would it be worth it? Am I right in thinking the reason that this isn't blowing up as a CBT method is that it's too hard for a layman to properly administer the IV dose needed? If one looks at the data on the link above, the bottle seems to have more than enough dosage to do a human. The results vary massively between animals (which I really don't understand), but if one takes dogs as a baseline, then even a 100kg human being would only need 30ml or so (and the bottle is 100ml). I look on other sites though, and the LD50 is quoted as around 75mg/kg, meaning the bottle is almost useless (as it only has around 360mg of actual PB). Which is correct?

The next question is around oral doses. If one looks at information around those, it seems that it rockets up around 140mg/kg (for rats). That means that again, the bottle is fairly useless, and all the info on the link above is basically wrong. That said, I can't imagine a manufacturer would make a product that would need loads of bottles to put down a cow or a horse.

Can anyone help clear this up?

Vets don't use phenobarbital to put down animals, they use pentobarbital. Both are barbiturates, but phenobarbital is long-acting (takes days to fully CTB) while pentobarbital is much shorter-acting (couldn't tell you exactly how long for death to occur, but hours at most).

 

[slapntickle]

Sorry, my mistake... I used pheno in the main text, but the title of the post was correct - I'm after dosage info on pentobarbital.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

this is pentobarbital what we here call Nembutal or N the best method

several euthanasia orgs, countries , states used 9 grams , 10 grams for humans oral for many years.

dignitas upped it to 15 grams for faster oral

 

[slapntickle]

I know all about N, don't you worry. The question is why is there such a huge difference between the amounts needed for oral and IV pentobarbital?

According to the link, this bottle (with just 0.36g of pentobarbital in it) can put down a cow, but we need to drink at least 30 times that according to Dignitas.

 

[rainatthebusstop]

I know all about N, don't you worry. The question is why is there such a huge difference between the amounts needed for oral and IV pentobarbital?

According to the link, this bottle (with just 0.36g of pentobarbital in it) can put down a cow, but we need to drink at least 30 times that according to Dignitas.

Well, if you drink it it looses a lot of it's potency by being absorbed into your metabolism more slowly and partially broken down by enzymes and stomach acid compared to shooting that shit unfiltered into your veins

 

[intr0verse]

I know all about N, don't you worry. The question is why is there such a huge difference between the amounts needed for oral and IV pentobarbital?

According to the link, this bottle (with just 0.36g of pentobarbital in it) can put down a cow, but we need to drink at least 30 times that according to Dignitas.

You got it wrong. The bottle in the link it's 100ml of liquid with a concentration of 400mg NaP for each ml of liquid so, in total, there are 40 grams of NaP in that bottle.

 

[iWantToStopExisting]

Where we can get this thing? A trip to Mexico or Central America maybe. Are there any organizations in Darknet that provide what kind services. Dignitas can they help?

 

[Littlepaws]

I know all about N, don't you worry. The question is why is there such a huge difference between the amounts needed for oral and IV pentobarbital?

According to the link, this bottle (with just 0.36g of pentobarbital in it) can put down a cow, but we need to drink at least 30 times that according to Dignitas.

To explain why IV doses are different from oral doses, that's because drugs administered via IV are considered to have 100% bioavailability to the body because they skip having to go through other organs before eventually reaching the bloodstream.

Drugs administered via other routes such as by mouth have to be metabolised by other parts of the body before eventually reaching the bloodstream. Unfortunately due to this, not the entire dosage of drug will eventually make it to the blood stream as some will be lost.

 

[slapntickle]

Wow you're right… says it right there on the label. That makes way more sense! So there's easily enough for 2 proper attempts at CBT.

Do you know if that addition of benzyl alcohol is a problem? I read that it's an irritant, but this is such a small amount of liquid needed - let's say 40ml, to be on the safe side. This could be diluted with water or juice to counteract the irritation and just downed in one.

I guess I'm really just surprised that something so visible and prevalent is so incredibly hard (impossible) to actually get on the black market when pretty much every other consumable substance known to man is available in some shape or form.